Once Upon A Killer Mafia (14/17) A Writers Block:Endgame

[StorrZerg]

strike wolf wants a "coherent answer" from tambo. /end the game boys it just broke .


@strike

Well, what about today strike.

this was referring to your read on myself.

[TheForgivenOne]

so was my push against virus scummy? do you disagree with the reasons i had with pushing him? or is this just a case because "i pushed someone that is now dead town"

I'm trying to wrap my head around this one.

Ultra is never lynched today. It's 100% you over him.
It absolutely does town no good if you both are town. Since we lose a town on "seeing if it's true " and if it is true, we really lack leads on day 2...
If you are mafia, why would we follow your suggestions on ultra lynch.

So you wanted to vote virus over Ultra.

Might be out of context (Or i'm simply reading it wrong), but i'm unsure WHY you wanted to. There was a chance, if we lynched Virus, we would end up losing both Virus and Ultra. If they ended up flipping town.. We had a chance at only losing 1 townie, if we lynched Ultra, instead of 2, if we lynched Virus. Granted it could have been opposite and we could have taken out 2 maf's, but that's a moot point now.

Could you explain this to me in... different words? I read the 3 posts about it and I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it. If you could clarify, that would be great (Sorry, I'm on my phone and my 4G at my house is spotty at best, so it's hard to find the specific post).

The whole cult situation seems a little fishy to me, and I really don't buy into it. I think Strike's thoughts on a SK makes more sense.

@Ultra
2 Shot Vig tonight? Huh... that seems... Idk, odd for a townie. Then again, Rishaed did mention this might not be balanced.

[UltrasPlot]

exactly why would someone recruit me into a cult if said entity existed? virus and I were sitting ducks last night and anyone who bothered reading would have had mafia kill virus... two townies gone. Also yeah it is strange that I have two shots rather than one... Storr, mind explaining the advocacy of a virus lynch yesterday when a) lynching me was so clearly superior b) virus is now confirmed town

also dd I know you're lurking somewhere, get out here and explain wtf you were doing yesterday (btw, you jumped on the AoG wagon too without a thought...)

[UltrasPlot]

Also... instead of continuing to pretend I'm scum even though I'm clear I would like to look at mtam.

• claimed reviver, easy role to test, and also easy to give an excuse for not using
• started a wagon on AoW which was very pointless at first and then ended up succeeding because he claimed busdriver, which is not at all uncommon or a townie... also his claim was ex post facto
• is now yelling "I WILL REVIVE DD" in an attempt to dissuade us from lynching him
• "Ultra why you no dead"

Now for Storr:

• Storr's townie points have been slipping with each post... "OMG HE'S NOT MAFIA HE MUST BE CULT THEREFORE HE'S STILL SCUM" <--- lol why is anyone bothering following this
• Brazen ul of virus and hop onto bandwagon of AoG even though he noted skepticism... if you were skeptic why vote
• trying to lynch virus in the first place (one townie over two, other is confirmed scum regardless and you don't mislynch d2...)

• EBWOP: anamaniacs, I must kill 2 people tonight. I cannot delay the vig.

  
  
  i don't believe you

  
  Why don't you believe me? Why would I claim this if I were anti-town?
• all-around decreasing post quality. if anyone's been cult recruited imho it's him

Sums up my opinion on these two for now... dd never mentioned one shot anywhere. trying to save scum buddy mtam? bc you can be assured that I will shoot him unless someone gives me really good evidence not to. because from my pov Zivel is less scummy than dd and he is actually contributing unlike dd just sheeping some other player around, give me one piece of worthwhile content he has contributed by himself.

In conclusion: We should watch Storr and mtam, and ceterum autem censeo dd moriendum esse

[Streaker]

Am I missing something here? Several posts are mentioning recruiter cult, but I read nothing about this somewhere, concrete. It was first mentioned by virus in his ridiculous thought, and now it's popping up again? I'm not skimming, and I could not find anywhere a good reason to think it's in the game...

yes i could just let him die, but i said i would take the fall for him. Maybe in some twisted universe like this it unlocks something we dont know or anything, my only ability in this game is to die for him, so im ok with that being "my purpose" in this game. and maybe after all lovers generally die together, we dont know that, maybe thats a way to get out of that.
i dont know what other purpose i have besides dying for him.

and yes i know i am town and not 100% sure if he is, thats how our conversation started in our QT aswell but the mod saw it and confirmed to us that we are same allignement so i trust the mod in that way else it would be twisted.

WOWWWWWW when i think about it 3 pairs of lovers CAN be explained. I am gonna call it: RECRUITER/CULT
it would explain why we are all the same allignement and why the mod confirmed that, that even makes it possible for all 3 lovers pairs are town.
its a genius cruel twist, at the start all lovers are town and a recruiter can change that.
to me this would make sense, its just speculation but it would be so perfectly cruel <3 i would see rishead doing something like that.

fped by ultra:
my response: point 1: our communication is not ideal since we are like day and night apart in timezones, we are like never around at the same time. we did not agree on calling eachother scummy, ultra announced i am gonna call you scummy in the QT and did, at which point i made a joke about that in the forum: the post where i say "i get why people believe why he is scummy etc" as a response to show my surprise, cause even in my opinion the whole me framing him is far fetched.
point 2: you understand correctly i have a choice, he stated that since we agreed i would take the fall, see also comments in this post about that.
point 3: if we agree in the topic on that, and he is ok 2, since i said i would take the fall i rather take the fall i dont like making promises and then not deliver my end. (sidenote: i still dont nescesarily think lovers die together, for points made previously: 6 lovers, my role, mod being vague about it)

Is this what got him killed. And the person in ridiculing it is my old pal steraker.

Did you even stop and think about posting that? It's one of the most sick twists i'd have seen in a game... To even bring it up in the midst of this discussion... I ask you to give us your thoughts on Ultra's play, and the things I pointed out, and you bring a story about how there are lovers waiting to be recruited? Amazing. (If it turns out to be true I will apologize ofcourse, if I survive the brain bleed to follow).

Well... I'm not sure what you mean with 'this is what got him killed.' There was a just a little bit more on to the case of both Ultra and Virus then this post... But I don't expect you to know since you didn't even vote on D1.
About ridiculing the part where he starts about recruiter/cult, guilty as charged. Still ridiculing for that matter until evidence is presented.

Now, if we have to look anywhere for vote leads, it should be the virus wagon. The 2 persons standing out the most for me are DD and Storr.

DD: First off, I'm not willing to believe ALL lovers are town. It's also unlikely (though increasing possibility) that there are effectivily this many lovers. If you go back to D1 there were already plenty of inconsistencies there for a lynch. All votes on Virus are scummy, since the safer option was to lynch Ultra and worst case have Virus jump in (only 1 death). Virus dead would = 2 death.

Storr: I love the quotes that anamaniacks brought up, first 100% sure Virus lynch, then 100% sure Ultra lynch over Virus, and when the wagon kicks off he switches votes to AoG.

So you honestly believe all 6 are town.... out of 3 lover pairs...

Ive got a feeling, at least one lover pair is 3rd party and 1 I'd mafia.

And maybe we have more....

This is interesting, because I fully agree that 'probably' not all 3 lover pairs (if there are even that many) are town. I think this is a worthy lead to persue, and I fully expected you to go for this today. But no:

Going off that, deff think mafia laid low on the last few days, and didn't say much. Maybe we lynch hotshot, name was brought up by someone yesterday to me, didn't really have a good response. Ill probably be looking at him today.

i think streaker moved to being more mafia sided as well

Ok. Why? I'm not used to you throwing things out there hoping it to stick. You mostly build up, not like this. Seen it on other occassions this game as well.

Does anyone want to add some arguments against Storr? I know I'm not the only one feeling something on him...

I feel that Ultra would NEVER claim double vig shot if anything but town. And with virus being town, I'm pretty sure he's town as well. Ultra, do you have any more information on how you are a 2-shot vig now?
Can only think of 2 things: Inventor (which a decent mod would NEVER allow to invent a double vig lol.), or a special power in the lover mechanic that you got for virus defending you. This would support your claim you had no other power besides lover on D1. Though I'm having a feeling you knew this in advance.

So, I want to follow 2 leads today: DD and Storr.
@Ultra, if you are willing to discuss your 2 kills, wait further until deadline and more information pops up.

[pancakemix]

Mmkay, not gonna say much here since it's been too long a day. I am gonna say I'm far less suspicious of DD given 1) the virus flip, considering the tin-foil hattedness that tied the two together (and speaking of which, everyone seems to have picked that up. Did I coin a phrase or what? ) and 2) the "imperfect play" thing, which goes both ways. With that said, I'm going to Vote Storr for reasons of yesterday. If you want more in-depth on that, I can rehash it tomorrow, but Zivel said basically what I said yesterday with regard to Storr (plus the virus wrinkle), and it's back there somewhere if you don't mind digging to see the original product yourself.

[Zivel]

As far as the kill, *Puts on aluminum foil hat which is vastly superior to your tin foil hats* I am thinking SK in a two scum faction game (SK and Cult or SK and mafia). Depending on how the SK plays, they have just as much reason as any vig to try to eliminate at least one scum during the night depending on how things are going. However, unlike a vig, the SK is more pressured to eliminate town's numbers quicker. So while a town vig may have taken a shot at DD last night to support the commuter claim, that wasn't really a very favorable option to an SK who needed a kill. Ultra however was the closest thing any scum in this game could get to a sure kill, Zivel, Virus or even some of the random townies might draw a protect from someone but Ultra had basically been declared free to target and at most Virus would have sacrificed himself to take Ultra's place amongst the dead. The SK could even potentially claim it as a vig kill later in the game. Mafia could have also gone with the more or less guaranteed kill but keeping the possible future lynch on the table is generally more important to them than killing one of the scummiest townie just because he's a guaranteed kill and they are less likely to try to pull the vig fake claim unless they are forced to (getting caught visiting the deceased) or it is their given fake claim. So basically the reason is to me, logical kill target for Vig=DD; logical kill target for mafia=random townie not likely to be protected and possible second lover; leading to a Sk trying to take him out. So yeah. *takes off the aluminum foil*

This right here is not helping. SK or mafia, who cares we have to kill them, and all it does is distract town from finding them. We are past the mechanics talk by a day and half. Also I see no reason for an SK to prefer to kill one town than two, and taken into consideration that Virus would have protection is a long shot as he was looking scummy as it was. My assumption is the kill had to be a town Vig, I could be wrong but trying to work out whether it is SK or vig is pointless until we learn more and all this does is give us more bs to read when we have enough as it is, god you love to fill up the pages dont you...

Now it looks like Storr has a few questions to ask and I am enjoying the pressure he is getting, especially from some of my strong town reads so I am eagerly anticipating hearing his responses, especially about the Virus lynch and the flip flopping. Always nice when an experienced player gets a bit of pressure.

Mtam deserves it to with his weak arse cases, still waiting to hear why they were so quick to lynch AoG's new slot.

I disagree with your dd5 read PCM, I am now moving the other way, thinking that he could be scum after the Virus flip. I was expecting one of the lovers to die and give us more information and now some has come out. I am starting to think that maybe you were right with your read of mistake play, thinking he can get a easy claim, cover his arse and is maybe/probably a scum lover pair. I like the idea of Mtam as his lover... that would make sweet sweet sense.

[aage]

This right here is not helping. SK or mafia, who cares we have to kill them, and all it does is distract town from finding them. We are past the mechanics talk by a day and half. Also I see no reason for an SK to prefer to kill one town than two, and taken into consideration that Virus would have protection is a long shot as he was looking scummy as it was. My assumption is the kill had to be a town Vig, I could be wrong but trying to work out whether it is SK or vig is pointless until we learn more and all this does is give us more bs to read when we have enough as it is, god you love to fill up the pages dont you...

Hmm. It wouldn't make much sense for mafia to kill Ultra, I agree... They knew Virus was town (and I'm gonna assume "they knew Ultra was town") so Virus' shield role was legit as far as they knew. Shooting Ultra would have been the worst choice, better to shoot Virus and let them both die. Although it seems strange, killing ultra is ultimately a pro-town move so I would suspect a vig.

As to why this vig didn't shoot DD, I don't know.


Ultra claiming 2 vig shots is interesting, I believe it means he's town... having them for one night only sucks, especially since it's the second night, since this means you'll have to use them.
Ultra, could you describe how exactly you came about these vig shots? If Mtamb were to revive Virus and he were to save you again, would you gain 2 more? Just curious.

As far as Mtamb being DD's lover, it would make some degree of sense since Virus was also a reviver and lover.

[dd515087]

Question for AoG: Why claim bus driver? I'm pretty sure redirecter is an entirely different role, but I've never played with a bus driver before.

ONE TIME USE Im pretty sure he said, and he probably used it last night.

FPD

yes I do

well find out when he posts.

you might as well claim to be his lover since he gave no indication that i can find that he had a limited power. That topic was even brought up, and he didn't respond to it.

I never said one time use. I didn't respond to the topic before because I think that's a very scummy thing to ask of me. If my role is limited and everyone knows, then mafia knows when to target me.

[dd515087]

Storr, mind explaining the advocacy of a virus lynch yesterday when a) lynching me was so clearly superior b) virus is now confirmed town

Everything you said here (and a couple others also brought it up... Streaker...) was completely irrelevant:
We didn't know lynching you at the time was superior. Just because you say something doesn't mean we automatically trust you. Especially when many people thought you were scummy before you claimed anything (thats why you claimed in case you forget). We also didn't know virus or you were town. Again many people thought you both were playing scummy (there was a BW on each of you in case you forget).

Also I'm not defending Storr. I don't particularly like his play, but if you are going to throw out BS reasons, I'm going to call you out. Which brings me to the next part of this post:

also dd I know you're lurking somewhere, get out here and explain wtf you were doing yesterday (btw, you jumped on the AoG wagon too without a thought...)

This is my first time reading up since night ended, I've been really busy.
Hopefully the last time I have to say this: I NEVER once thought AoG was town. I thought he was scummy since his very first post. Then I went inactive for a bit. When I came back I made the lover topic the center of talk with my 3rd claim. I STILL said AoG was scummy, but there were other hot topics. Whatsausage asked me why I thought AoG was scummy. I read him again as scummy on his most recent posts at this point BEFORE THERE WAS A SINGLE VOTE ON HIM. Then mtam says we should BW on AoG and then he votes him. AT THIS POINT HE HAS ONE VOTE. I say:

I agree he hasn't added much at all of relevant content. I'm not comfortable with Ultra/virus, but I agree that AoG is scummy and if more people wanted to lynch him I would be completely satisfied with that lynch. I didn't see too many people pointing fingers or placing votes on him though so I decided to stick with the hot topic of Ultra/virus

Does this clear that issue up for you? I feel like I explained this multiple times on D1.

[mtamburini]

Storr, mind explaining the advocacy of a virus lynch yesterday when a) lynching me was so clearly superior b) virus is now confirmed town

Everything you said here (and a couple others also brought it up... Streaker...) was completely irrelevant:
We didn't know lynching you at the time was superior. Just because you say something doesn't mean we automatically trust you. Especially when many people thought you were scummy before you claimed anything (thats why you claimed in case you forget). We also didn't know virus or you were town. Again many people thought you both were playing scummy (there was a BW on each of you in case you forget).

Also I'm not defending Storr. I don't particularly like his play, but if you are going to throw out BS reasons, I'm going to call you out. Which brings me to the next part of this post:

also dd I know you're lurking somewhere, get out here and explain wtf you were doing yesterday (btw, you jumped on the AoG wagon too without a thought...)

This is my first time reading up since night ended, I've been really busy.
Hopefully the last time I have to say this: I NEVER once thought AoG was town. I thought he was scummy since his very first post. Then I went inactive for a bit. When I came back I made the lover topic the center of talk with my 3rd claim. I STILL said AoG was scummy, but there were other hot topics. Whatsausage asked me why I thought AoG was scummy. I read him again as scummy on his most recent posts at this point BEFORE THERE WAS A SINGLE VOTE ON HIM. Then mtam says we should BW on AoG and then he votes him. AT THIS POINT HE HAS ONE VOTE. I say:

I agree he hasn't added much at all of relevant content. I'm not comfortable with Ultra/virus, but I agree that AoG is scummy and if more people wanted to lynch him I would be completely satisfied with that lynch. I didn't see too many people pointing fingers or placing votes on him though so I decided to stick with the hot topic of Ultra/virus

Does this clear that issue up for you? I feel like I explained this multiple times on D1.

Is your power a one time use or not?

[StorrZerg]

so was my push against virus scummy? do you disagree with the reasons i had with pushing him? or is this just a case because "i pushed someone that is now dead town"

I'm trying to wrap my head around this one.

Ultra is never lynched today. It's 100% you over him.
It absolutely does town no good if you both are town. Since we lose a town on "seeing if it's true " and if it is true, we really lack leads on day 2...
If you are mafia, why would we follow your suggestions on ultra lynch.

So you wanted to vote virus over Ultra.

Might be out of context (Or i'm simply reading it wrong), but i'm unsure WHY you wanted to. There was a chance, if we lynched Virus, we would end up losing both Virus and Ultra. If they ended up flipping town.. We had a chance at only losing 1 townie, if we lynched Ultra, instead of 2, if we lynched Virus. Granted it could have been opposite and we could have taken out 2 maf's, but that's a moot point now.

Could you explain this to me in... different words? I read the 3 posts about it and I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it. If you could clarify, that would be great (Sorry, I'm on my phone and my 4G at my house is spotty at best, so it's hard to find the specific post).

The whole cult situation seems a little fishy to me, and I really don't buy into it. I think Strike's thoughts on a SK makes more sense.

@Ultra
2 Shot Vig tonight? Huh... that seems... Idk, odd for a townie. Then again, Rishaed did mention this might not be balanced.

If you lynch ultra yesterday, its to prove that he comes back with virus dieing. or cause you think he is mafia.

With ultra wanting to be lynched, its heavily indicated that he gains something out of it which i kept pointing out. (now he claims he had no idea of this power a head of time, i disagree) I'm fairly certain he had some idea something would happen.

Thus if you are unsure about his alignment, you don't want to go forward with that plan, 1 if he is mafia its a trap. Since its pretty clear there is a connection with virus/ultra

Or if he is town, your not gaining anything out of it, since he is town and it was a "policy lynch"

Which leads to why virus should be lynched over ultra if you don't believe the couple, and think they are scum. Which left me conflicted since i was town reading ultra, and mafia reading virus. I ended up not going for the lynch on them, because i found it more likely that virus was telling the truth and not giving a shit about the game because he was letting his emotions get the better of him. (his whole, not giving a shit about the game, since he is going to die for ultra, because ultra being an idiot etc etc etc)

[StorrZerg]

@ultra

If you are going to paraphrase shit, at least be more exact since i'm fairly certain this is just a jumble of words from you which means nothing.

Storr's townie points have been slipping with each post... "OMG HE'S NOT MAFIA HE MUST BE CULT THEREFORE HE'S STILL SCUM" <--- lol why is anyone bothering following this

Brazen ul of virus and hop onto bandwagon of AoG even though he noted skepticism... if you were skeptic why vote

not sure what "ul" is. And if you note, i stopped pushing virus. Why vote? because information, this goes back to you not placing value into day 1 lynches. Now its hard for you to admit, but virus was playing hella scummy considering he didn't care about the game, since you wanted to get yourself lynched to prove a point which btw isn't actually that helpful.

trying to lynch virus in the first place (one townie over two, other is confirmed scum regardless and you don't mislynch d2...)

FYI i was pushing virus before the claim of lovers happened. I had my own criteria to push him, and if you still fail to grasp why i was pushing him then you should go reread my push. And reread everything virus had done/said before he claimed lovers with you.
Secondly, day 1, neither of you are confirmed town. You had side motivation for getting yourself lynched, and virus dieing. (additional powers show up) This is the big thing i was emphasizing yesterday. You claim you had no idea, i disagree, i think you had some idea "something" would happen, you didn't know what, but i believe it was heavily implied in your pm. That lynching you, and the revival of you would result in something like this. Hence, if you are scum, i'd like to avoid giving a scum team a big lead early on for no reason.

Why don't you believe me? Why would I claim this if I were anti-town?

I believe the claim of the power, i don't believe you MUST use both shots this night.

all-around decreasing post quality. if anyone's been cult recruited imho it's him

"please" people throwing around this cult recruiter nonsense is just idiotic at this point, since we have no evidence that such thing is even in this game.

As far as my quality going "down" , i can afford for "quality" to go down. I don't need to be going ham for 10 days straight, its just not worth it for me. I made the most detailed reads out of anyone day 1, both townie reads and scummy reads, so please don't tell me my quality is going down. Ill certainly have detailed reads explained today.

. dd never mentioned one shot anywhere. trying to save scum buddy mtam?

yes i pointed that out before you... glad to know you are in agreement with me on this...

also fyi ultra, i was one of your bigger supporters to not have you lynched because i had a town read on you, and explained it... And this was before your lover claim. Glad you forgot about the people actually pushing on you, but thats chill. Considering now you are pushing on mtamb, who doesn't want to lynch any lovers as of yesterday (and today). ultra, you are looking in the wrong place for mafia, townies are very capable of pushing wrong lynches and i believe you are pushing 2 townies.

[StorrZerg]

@streaker

Ok. Why? I'm not used to you throwing things out there hoping it to stick. You mostly build up, not like this. Seen it on other occassions this game as well.

you had a wasted vote at the end. Your push on ultra as well. (with out much consideration that he could be town)

Does anyone want to add some arguments against Storr? I know I'm not the only one feeling something on him...

now if this isn't testing the waters if a lynch can happen idk what is lol .

pcm comment now.

Mmkay, not gonna say much here since it's been too long a day. I am gonna say I'm far less suspicious of DD given 1) the virus flip, considering the tin-foil hattedness that tied the two together (and speaking of which, everyone seems to have picked that up. Did I coin a phrase or what? ) and 2) the "imperfect play" thing, which goes both ways. With that said, I'm going to Vote Storr for reasons of yesterday. If you want more in-depth on that, I can rehash it tomorrow, but Zivel said basically what I said yesterday with regard to Storr (plus the virus wrinkle), and it's back there somewhere if you don't mind digging to see the original product yourself.

nah i'd like to hear why. also pcm, is this going to be a repeat of game 2, where you push me blindly for wrong reasons? and failing to see how town i've been? and every time i bring up a townie action, you dismiss it because i could have "planted it" Just want to know. you know?

Now it looks like Storr has a few questions to ask and I am enjoying the pressure he is getting, especially from some of my strong town reads so I am eagerly anticipating hearing his responses, especially about the Virus lynch and the flip flopping. Always nice when an experienced player gets a bit of pressure.

and now what...

Mtam deserves it to with his weak arse cases, still waiting to hear why they were so quick to lynch AoG's new slot.

why? he has all ready claimed, what are you going to do lynch him for his claim at this point? He is clearly giving no shits about this game, and isn't going to participate heavily in this game any more. So pressuring him is pointless, if he fails to revive someone, it can be looked into. The fact he insta claimed today, and doesn't seem to give a shit indicates town from him.

I'll be bringing up a case on hotshot at some point. I suggest you guys relook him so you can comment on my case when i provide it.

[crasp]

For all you that are knocking the Virus recruiter theory put your character name into google or take the shortcut and stick manga vampire romance in. Seems to be in loads of volumes and chapters. was in a terminal accident but was brought back by a vampire who thought she looke like his wife but her lifestyle changed forever. Given what rishaed said I reckon we all should be in there. this was his quote on the AOK role.

Also Shes In Chapter 7 in Dendrobates for all you ppl out there. (And in another coupla chapters).Don't know why it didn't come up.

Ultra being loose with 2 vig kills is scaring the shit out of me. I agree that Virus/Ultra was probably taken out by something other than mafia. yes the town consensus was that they wouldnt be protected but that wouldnt stop them being watched and the obvious choice for mafia would have been virus. Why risk it. Why would a SK take out Ultra when they could get a double kill by taking virus or one of the other claimed lovers.

Ultra claiming 2 vig shots is interesting, I believe it means he's town... having them for one night only sucks, especially since it's the second night, since this means you'll have to use them.

I am not sure how you get this as town. He seems very keen to convince us that he is now clear and claiming that power has just asked for a role block if there is one in the game.
If ultra was taken by a serial killer then town is in trouble. With the lovers, a lynch and his double vig we could have 5 deaths today. Once again we have a big fog created by ultra that scum can skip in and out of trying to find safe kills for ultra.
Streaker, for some reason every time that fog clears you are standing in the headlights. That last giant post of yours said absolutely nothing other than try to shift focus from you, again. As far as looking at the virus bandwagon it was your scummy placed vote that put me on to you in the first place.
FP Storr.

[StorrZerg]

Interesting streaker says to look on the virus wagon. Being Dd5 and myself.

@Streaker, why not hotshot?

[Whatsausage]

Mmk I'm back, sorry for not being able to get back yesterday, but it appears we were both wrong anyway

But before storr changes vote several people are voting the virus lynch: Hotshot53, Storrzerg, dd515087 and Whatsausage joins in later. Hotshots vote was left over from something in the earlier days play.

This is telling, I think this is a key point in the game for me. Whatsausage goes for the virus vote with ideas about alternative win conditions and such. At this point in the game is was very easy for scum to join in on one of the towny lynchs. I am assuming that Ultra is town now as the Virus death without him confirms it to me. He joined in softly on a town lynch that made no sense when it would be a two for one. He promises to come back and switch his vote but never does.

Whatsausage needs to explain his play from late day one.

You are correct, I was the last to switch to virus and didn't change my vote. I never "promised" to change my vote, I just said probably, but I wasn't able to make it back. I am torn as to whether I would have even changed it had I made it back. At that point it was really a pointless vote, but I really didn't see the case on AOG at all. (Even more so today's, even though that one seems to have died right away) I was still suspicious of dd, but his claim could be tested by nearly anyone, so there was no need to lynch him (though his claim isn't automatically alignment indicative)
As for justification for my play, I believe you are looking more towards my virus vote. I stated my reasons for my vote at the time: I didn't believe him town, their stories weren't adding up, I believed a lover lynch was best for town, and I didn't want to lynch ultra because of the chance of him gaining powers. I stand by these reasons (except virus was obviously town now.) Ultra's stories still don't really make sense as has been stated by others (eg him willing to lynch himself to sac virus to prove him town and no other reason. I also believe he had at least an inkling that he would gain a power from virus dying for him) I didn't want to potentially give that power to scum. I am still not 100% on ultra being town because of virus' flip, be it a "tin foil theory" or not. (More on this in a bit.) So that's why I switched to virus, and I didn't see a better choice to change to later. I guess I joined "softly" and yes he flipped town, so I was likely wrong, but I was definitely willing to risk two towns on D1 to try and prevent a scum getting powers (like ultra claims to have gained, 2 forced kills could very easily end up being those two towns.)

FP'd by crasp

As for ultra's claim. 2 kills in one night? This is a little hard to believe. I also have a hard time thinking this is something for a town player. Perhaps I am going too "tinfoil hat" again, but I don't think it would be terribly far off for ultra to have changed alignment with his lover's death. This really fits with getting multiple kills. Clearly they are kills to "avenge" virus, but two kills in one night says more "kill everyone to win" crazy than "grieve by trying to find the killer" town. If that last sentence doesn't make sense, I am trying to say that it seems more likely with two kills in one night that he is now a third party trying to kill everyone than if say he got one kill a night or total and some way to investigate for his lover's killer.

Fp'd by storr

[TheForgivenOne]

I am not sure how you get this as town. He seems very keen to convince us that he is now clear and claiming that power has just asked for a role block if there is one in the game.

FP Storr.

If he was Anti-town (And does have these powers), he very easily could have not said a thing about it. Then let the craziness ensue tonight. That's how I view it.

[aage]

I am not sure how you get this as town. He seems very keen to convince us that he is now clear and claiming that power has just asked for a role block if there is one in the game.

FP Storr.

If he was Anti-town (And does have these powers), he very easily could have not said a thing about it. Then let the craziness ensue tonight. That's how I view it.

This is exactly why I read him as town ATM.

[Whatsausage]

I am not sure how you get this as town. He seems very keen to convince us that he is now clear and claiming that power has just asked for a role block if there is one in the game.

FP Storr.

If he was Anti-town (And does have these powers), he very easily could have not said a thing about it. Then let the craziness ensue tonight. That's how I view it.

The problem I have with this thought is that he has to know this as well, and if there are trackers in the game (I tend to think there is one), he would likely be seen with 2+ kills in a single night. His visit to the deceased can be justified this way. This quickly becomes a WIFOM argument, but perhaps I am just seeing it spit out a scummy ultra because that's what I am putting in.

[TheForgivenOne]

I am not sure how you get this as town. He seems very keen to convince us that he is now clear and claiming that power has just asked for a role block if there is one in the game.

FP Storr.

If he was Anti-town (And does have these powers), he very easily could have not said a thing about it. Then let the craziness ensue tonight. That's how I view it.

The problem I have with this thought is that he has to know this as well, and if there are trackers in the game (I tend to think there is one), he would likely be seen with 2+ kills in a single night. His visit to the deceased can be justified this way. This quickly becomes a WIFOM argument, but perhaps I am just seeing it spit out a scummy ultra because that's what I am putting in.

You're taking a big stretch that the Tracker was going to track him tonight, when there is 12 other candidates to consider, and the possibility of the Tracker going after him N1. If he tracked him N1 and saw nothing, there'd be next to no reason to track him again.

[StorrZerg]

Yawn. No point to track ultra. It be obvious

[UltrasPlot]

" (now he claims he had no idea of this power a head of time, i disagree)"
Give me a single reason why I wouldn't admit that I had fore-knowledge.

"I am not sure how you get this as town. He seems very keen to convince us that he is now clear and claiming that power has just asked for a role block if there is one in the game. "
You seem very keen to convince us that I am scum.

"you had a wasted vote at the end. Your push on ultra as well. (with out much consideration that he could be town)"
not like you didn't do the same Storr, except it would have killed me too

"Ultra, could you describe how exactly you came about these vig shots? If Mtamb were to revive Virus and he were to save you again, would you gain 2 more? Just curious. "
aage, I'm pretty much in the dark. All I have is some flavor and then a power addition that says that I MUST kill two people tonight in revenge.

"As for ultra's claim. 2 kills in one night? This is a little hard to believe. I also have a hard time thinking this is something for a town player."
rishaed made it clear this wasn't gonna be perfectly balanced... if I were scum I'd have claimed 1 vig shot and used the other to off zivel or something.

"ng off that, deff think mafia laid low on the last few days, and didn't say much. Maybe we lynch hotshot, name was brought up by someone yesterday to me, didn't really have a good response. Ill probably be looking at him today."
Storr, I disagree. We have 17 players. There were 13 votes cast iirc. Within those votes there are most definitely mafia, and bored inactive players are more likely to be village imo.

"This is my first time reading up since night ended, I've been really busy.
Hopefully the last time I have to say this: I NEVER once thought AoG was town. I thought he was scummy since his very first post. Then I went inactive for a bit. When I came back I made the lover topic the center of talk with my 3rd claim. I STILL said AoG was scummy, but there were other hot topics. Whatsausage asked me why I thought AoG was scummy. I read him again as scummy on his most recent posts at this point BEFORE THERE WAS A SINGLE VOTE ON HIM. Then mtam says we should BW on AoG and then he votes him. AT THIS POINT HE HAS ONE VOTE. I say: "
PLEASE you have contributed NOTHING to this game. Other than a vote to mafia, of course.

"also fyi ultra, i was one of your bigger supporters to not have you lynched because i had a town read on you, and explained it... And this was before your lover claim. Glad you forgot about the people actually pushing on you, but thats chill. Considering now you are pushing on mtamb, who doesn't want to lynch any lovers as of yesterday (and today). ultra, you are looking in the wrong place for mafia, townies are very capable of pushing wrong lynches and i believe you are pushing 2 townies."
I'm fairly sure you tried to lynch virus. Also I don't intend to shoot you unless town decides you're scum. I was merely pointing stuff out.

As of right now I plan on shooting:
1. dd
2. unknown, maybe mtam

Yes, I do intend to shoot as the town wishes. Although I would object if you don't want to shoot the obvscum... dd refusing to claim x-shot is even worse. Makes it so that we assume he actually dies. I do not remember him claiming x-shot commuter, he only claimed commuter.

[StorrZerg]

Please include a direct quote, or state specifically who said what. Your post needs clarity.

[strike wolf]

First off, FOS on the people trying to push the Ultra could still be scum theories. Even if one of these theories turns out true which I tend to doubt, I am pretty sure that at least one or two of these people are scum trying to distract from cases that might involve them or one of their scum buddies. The facts are, cult or no cult, there were enough suspicious feelings about Ultra to make him a fairly unlikely pick in this game. Likewise, suggesting that Ultra changed alignments when Virus died is possible but tin foil hat (A brief read through the plot line did not seem to suggest any alignment shift either nor did I read anything about vampires which do not seem to exist in my storyline either). Frankly no, Ultra did not have much reason to come forward today and announce that he had two vig kills as scum. One, now he is forced to prove them or be lynched tomorrow. Two, there's no town credibility that he gains from doing so (in fact you could say the opposite has been proven true). Virus' death gave reasonable proof that he was town and he could have ridden that at least for a while. The only thing he might have been worried about would be a watcher and watchers are uncommon enough that I could see him taking the risk of getting caught by one to keep silent. So yes, I am reading him town at the moment.

Secondly to Storr, I'll get around to it when I have time. Most general posts take me between 5-20 minutes to write. A case like yours would take me closer to an hour, that's not time I have at the moment.

Third, is something I can't believe I didn't think of yesterday. Lynch someone today. Have Mtam use his power on one of the dead townies (Virus or possibly if we lynch wrong today's lynch). Have DD commute (Unless you want to specify otherwise DD now is the time to say if your shots for commuting are limited). Ultra shoots them both, if they are both telling the truth, no harm done. If one or both are lying that individual should die anyways. Now is this the best option? Maybe, maybe not. It certainly is the scenario that has the least chance of negative consequences but I think a lot of it has to do with how suspicious you are of Mtam and/or DD vs other players in the game.

FPed by Ultra and Storr: Yeah at the very least attribute each quote to the person who wrote them. You specify on a few but the others are unclear unless the person directly goes back to find them.