Conquer Club

Tisha wrote:isn't the spelling Oceania?

I'd prefer no gif if it slows down the loading at all

LOL yes of course, thanks Tisha

Hey sully...

what about renaming Magadan to Seoul, and moving it between Tokyo and Beijing...
I mentioned this a page or so back, but it wasn't so clear...
same gameplay, just more recognizable cities...

i think it could work, and would show the reality of the crowdedness there...

Robinette wrote:Hey sully...

what about renaming Magadan to Seoul, and moving it between Tokyo and Beijing...
I mentioned this a page or so back, but it wasn't so clear...
same gameplay, just more recognizable cities...

i think it could work, and would show the reality of the crowdedness there...

2 big problems with that:

#1 The army circles would essentially be touching (or placed in the wrong spots) which means 3 digit numbers would run from one army circle to the next. It also would mean the labels would be confusing, because the Seoul label would touch all 3 circles

#2 Yakutsk still needs to connect to Seoul, which means the connection would run very close to Beijing (and especially close to Beijings label) causing further confusion.

I personally don't think that creating such a cramped area on the map for the soul ( ) purpose of including big cities is a good idea. Clarity and ease of use must always be the priority.

Robinette wrote:Hey sully...

what about renaming Magadan to Seoul, and moving it between Tokyo and Beijing...
I mentioned this a page or so back, but it wasn't so clear...
same gameplay, just more recognizable cities...

i think it could work, and would show the reality of the crowdedness there...

sully800 wrote:2 big problems with that:

#1 The army circles would essentially be touching (or placed in the wrong spots) which means 3 digit numbers would run from one army circle to the next. It also would mean the labels would be confusing, because the Seoul label would touch all 3 circles

I still think this could work since the three cities are close to being in a diagonal line...
Make Beijing label to the top and left, Tokyo to the bottom, and Seoul slightly top and to the right...
If you have a few minutes, play with it... i'm sure this problem could be overcome...

sully800 wrote:#2 Yakutsk still needs to connect to Seoul, which means the connection would run very close to Beijing (and especially close to Beijings label) causing further confusion.

no no... this is an easy one... swing the connection wide into the ocean... i've drawn it on paper, but i don't know how to do this to show you... but trust me, it's do-able...

sully800 wrote:I personally don't think that creating such a cramped area on the map for the soul ( ) purpose of including big cities is a good idea. Clarity and ease of use must always be the priority.

Ahhh... this is the dilemma... and of course it is the real reason that this might not work...
i agree completely that clarity and ease of use trumps the use of big cities...

But this spot on the board is unique in that the connections are quite "limited", but alas... i understand the hurtle here...

Any chance you could play with it though, just to be sure?
I am hopeful that there is a way to have Seoul AND have clarity and ease of use...
It's worth a small effort, is it not?
pleeeeeeease try.....

[bigimg]http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1254/classic4z.jpg[/bigimg]

Tisha wrote:isn't the spelling Oceania?

Fixed

RjBeals wrote:Sure that looks cool - but not for a legend in a cc map. Please do not put any more effort into this. Animated gif's are so 1990's. Leave them for space invaders and pac man. It is giving me a headache as i even leave this comment.

Accepted!

Peter Gibbons wrote:For Oceania, I think you can either change Manila to Port Moresby

Still debating this, though I think I agree

Robinette wrote:[*]Please lose the jets.... it's all such a professional map, and then BAM, so please... lose the jets...

Lost

Robinette wrote:I'm missing the globe bonuses and don't really like the simple list in the Pacific Ocean. Perhaps you could do the globes without writing the names of the continents... after all, there are just cities and the visual of the globe makes it very clear...

I'm debating this point to, though I don't really like the idea of a bonus list AND mini map. I know it's been done many times before, but it just seems repetitive to me, and in that way is definitely clutter. I personally think the globes would work without the bonus region labels (though they would still be labeled as such in the XML). The only problem might be players who speak no english, but I would imagine they face MANY such problems trying to play on this site.

Robinette wrote:Consider swapping the bonus colors... oceania for South America should do the trick... will really help to keep the asia / oceania bonuses clearly seperated...

The current colors are based on the colors from the Shapes map, and I think continuity would be nice in that regard. The really strange thing is that Oceania/Asia are the closest in hue, but more players will have trouble distinguishing Asia and NAmerica due to color blindness. So in that case, it is nice to have complete separation. Anyway, I can swap the colors if people can't differentiate between the orange and red, but I haven't heard that complaint so far.

Robinette wrote:The lines connecting Magadan and Anchorage don't match... one is convex, the other is concave

Fixed, and I made some minor adjustments to other lines (such as the two coming into Bangkok).

reggie_mac wrote:As you have no part of New Zealand on the map, maybe instead of cutting off most the country you could just remove it all together from the map, if i remember correctly there is a similar board game out there that until the last version didn't have the islands of New Zealand on it at all.. yeah, i'd rather none of it than half of it.

Done. It's a shame to lose NZ because I think it's an awesome place (I would love to live there for at least some period of time). However I think you're right that having just a chunk of land looks bad.

RjBeals wrote:I love this version. I think it's much better to look at. The subtle references to classic are great. I love the bonus list, and the title looks cool also. Really, it all looks good to me - the only thing out of place is your sully monster face signature. You really should put your name there instead.

Thanks , and the signature has changed.

lackattack wrote:I like the jets, but if you replace them how about putting something with the Conquer Club star in there? Or even a compass in the ocean à la original Classic, but with the CC star instead of a skull?

I've tried a couple of ways to work the logo into the title and they all looked bad to me. I tried the compass rose with the CC logo in this version. Thoughts?

lackattack wrote:If it doesn't clutter the artwork, I'd prefer to call the continents names like "African Cities" instead of "Africa" to distance Classic from other popular global domination game boards.

I think I said this earlier, but there is not enough room to put "cities" after each bonus region. Does the label "city bonuses" help at all? Or is that just unnecessary?


I think that covers all of the new points? Thanks everyone for your continued input!

As for replacing Art or replacing Shapes or any combination of the two - This decision is not mine to make, so campaigning or complaining or even just giving friendly suggestions in this thread won't affect anything. I don't mean to say that your opinions are not welcome, but since I won't make the decision those thoughts don't affect the map development. If you have new ideas to add about the revamp logistics can you add them in the announcement?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=98456

you've got my vote. One of the best looking maps on CC - and gameplay is solid

The compass rose looks sweet - well done my friend

i like the globes better than the legend... can't it just have the globes

the cc star is a distraction on this map, which i did not expect.. it's a total focal point, needs to be toned down or sent away

your little ghosted sully was cool, it would be nice to see that back...

Robinette wrote:the cc star is a distraction on this map, which i did not expect.. it's a total focal point, needs to be toned down or sent away

your little ghosted sully was cool, it would be nice to see that back...

I agree here, the compass is a little too distracting. That is the first place my eyes went to on the map. Maybe 75% opacity?

Please bring back your ghost, it looked good on the map! Pleease!

Agreed that the star logo could use some toning down.
Also that the legend is unpleasantly plain.

Otherwise this is a pretty little map and while I much preferred World Cities, this is definitely looking good for Classic.

I am glad to see those fighter jets gone, and maybe the compass rose would be less obtrusive if it wasn't made 3D, but just a simple circle and star.

Robinette wrote:Consider swapping the bonus colors... oceania for South America should do the trick... will really help to keep the asia / oceania bonuses clearly seperated...

sully800 wrote:The current colors are based on the colors from the Shapes map, and I think continuity would be nice in that regard. The really strange thing is that Oceania/Asia are the closest in hue, but more players will have trouble distinguishing Asia and NAmerica due to color blindness. So in that case, it is nice to have complete separation. Anyway, I can swap the colors if people can't differentiate between the orange and red, but I haven't heard that complaint so far.

well from a colour blind point of view you have a big problem as Africa Asia and Oceania are not distinguishable for a red/green (deuteranope)colour blind person
try with this site
I think that at least classic should exemplar form any point of view as it is THE map of CC
oh and btw great job big thumbs up

Aw, come on... why do the jets have to go? They were a nice touch, pretty and not distracting...

By the way, can we have the ghost back? T'was cool as well
And the compass is rather annoying, I'd rather see it removed...

Overall I think all the changes from v3 have been a step backwards, but I really only care about the jets. Can we have'em back? Pretty please?

Robinette wrote:[*]Please lose the jets.... it's all such a professional map, and then BAM, so please... lose the jets...

I don't understand a word... can you please explain what you find "unprofessional" about the jets?

Tis the problem of map making, you can never please everyone!

I will definitely tone down the compass. As for the other options there seem to be people for and against, as always.

isn't making a map fun !

You're map sully - you have the final say. We're just here to give feedback & advice.

sully800 wrote:Tis the problem of map making, you can never please everyone!

I will definitely tone down the compass. As for the other options there seem to be people for and against, as always.

Yup, seems we've reached a stalemate on the plane thingy - IIRC (possibly I'm missing someone) we have MrBenn, mibi, lack and me for them and Robinette, ender516 and saaimen against.
Anyway, regardless of what we think it's your map, so just go with what you prefer

Thanks for all your hard work, by the way! I really appreciate it, although I'm getting so tiresome it doesn't show

The Compass has some feng sui issues, introducing disharmony into the map. I'm being serious.

mibi wrote:The Compass has some feng sui issues, introducing disharmony into the map. I'm being serious.

I trust your judgment on these things because I know you have a real eye for graphics design (and not just gut feelings like most of us). How should I correct such disharmony? Or I suppose the better question is what about the compass causes disharmony in the first place?

I'm not mibi but I'd say just make it smaller and give it a bit less contrast. Also, now that the jets are gone, you should center the "Classic". And bring back ghost sully.

john9blue wrote:Also, now that the jets are gone, you should center the "Classic".

Not necessarily. It looks pretty good in its current spot, entirely over ocean.

sully800 wrote:

mibi wrote:The Compass has some feng sui issues, introducing disharmony into the map. I'm being serious.

I trust your judgment on these things because I know you have a real eye for graphics design (and not just gut feelings like most of us). How should I correct such disharmony? Or I suppose the better question is what about the compass causes disharmony in the first place?

The issue with the compass is mostly due to it's 'poison arrows' or sha chi.

See here, http://fengshui.about.com/od/glossaryof ... shachi.htm

Basically, the sharpness of its points create such a contrast with the rest of the map, being rather soft, that a disharmony is created because these elements are not in unison, design wise. It is psychologically inauspicious to several of the cities surrounding the compass. I'd suggest you find or create a compass without such menacing points, further more if you are using photoshop, you can set the entire layer to luminosity and it will blend in real nice with the ocean tones.

For the record, Feng Shui is half subconscious commonsense and half bullshit mysticism. Ditch the latter and you have something useful.

Dang... it was hard to find the right era compass'es...
tons of OLD style & tons of NEW stuff...
but only a little in the middle

Hope it helps

I think the key more than anything is to keep it all within a circle... except for a couple simple lines...

Evil DIMwit wrote:

john9blue wrote:Also, now that the jets are gone, you should center the "Classic".

Not necessarily. It looks pretty good in its current spot, entirely over ocean.

Agreed

Great work sully!

2 things:

-Isn't the plural of bonus, boni? I might be wrong on this one.
-I liked your old signature better!

sully800 wrote:

mibi wrote:The Compass has some feng sui issues, introducing disharmony into the map. I'm being serious.

I trust your judgment on these things because I know you have a real eye for graphics design (and not just gut feelings like most of us). How should I correct such disharmony? Or I suppose the better question is what about the compass causes disharmony in the first place?

remove the green in the large arrows stay in a white/blue tone with only the bg of CC star with bright red
and maybe also remove the shadow so it won't look like an alien vessel attacking earth