The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

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Juan_Bottom
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The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by Juan_Bottom »

Jan. 5, 2009 - Gun Ban Lists Revealed
The new Brady gun ban lists are already leaked

http://www.gunlaws.com/GunLawUpdate3.htm

Basically, it breaks down like this.
Felons, and people convicted of misdeameners cannot own guns. Anyone who has ever taken anti-depressants or asked for any type of mental treatments cannot own guns. Veterans can be barred from owning guns without any type of trial or defense. All guns are to be licensed and tracked. Failure to report stolen guns is an automatic felony. The attorny General can ban any gun at will. Any gun with a pistol grip can be considered/made illegal. Police are exempt. All gun transfers are required to go through a licensed dealer(exception of immediate family). You must become licensed by the Attorny General to own a firearm(take a test, submit new ID, leave thumbprint). It is a felony to lock up a gun in a way that it is accessable to anyone under 18. This is expected to be a perma-ban, not a sunset ban.

And the banned list (what's leaked):
The Democrats current gun-ban-list proposal (final list will be worse):

Rifles (or copies or duplicates):

M1 Carbine, Sturm Ruger Mini-14, AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, AR-10, Thompson 1927, Thompson M1;

AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;

Olympic Arms PCR; AR70, Calico Liberty, Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU, Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC, Hi-Point Carbine, HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, HK-PSG-1, Thompson 1927 Commando, Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;

Saiga, SAR-8, SAR-4800, SKS with detachable magazine, SLG 95, SLR 95 or 96, Steyr AU, Tavor, Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).

Pistols (or copies or duplicates):

Calico M-110, MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3, Olympic Arms OA, TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10, Uzi.

Shotguns (or copies or duplicates):

Armscor 30 BG, SPAS 12 or LAW 12, Striker 12, Streetsweeper.

Catch-all category (for anything missed or new designs):

A semiautomatic rifle that accepts a detachable magazine and has (i) a folding or telescoping stock, (ii) a threaded barrel, (iii) a pistol grip (which includes ANYTHING that can serve as a grip, see below), (iv) a forward grip; or a barrel shroud.

Any semiautomatic rifle with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds (except tubular magazine .22 rimfire rifles).

A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has (i) a second pistol grip, (ii) a threaded barrel, (iii) a barrel shroud or (iv) can accept a detachable magazine outside of the pistol grip, and (v) a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.

A semiautomatic shotgun with (i) a folding or telescoping stock, (ii) a pistol grip (see definition below), (iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine or a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds, and (iv) a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

Frames or receivers for the above are included, along with conversion kits.


That's right, everything is banned.

Under the proposal, the U.S. Attorney General can add any “semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General.” Note that Obama’s pick for this office (Eric Holder, confirmation hearing set for Jan. 15) wrote a brief in the Heller case supporting the position that you have no right to have a working firearm in your own home.

In making this determination, the bill says, “there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.”

In plain English this means that ANY firearm ever obtained by federal officers or the military is not suitable for the public.


The last part is particularly clever, stating that a firearm doesn’t have a sporting purpose just because it can be used for sporting purpose -- is that devious or what? And of course, “sporting purpose” is a rights infringement with no constitutional or historical support whatsoever, invented by domestic enemies of the right to keep and bear arms to further their cause of disarming the innocent.



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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by GabonX »

This really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone.

The article says Police are exempt right? Do you guys really want more people like me becoming cops? I'm seriously considering it...
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by KoolBak »

Complete and utter BS. Period.
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by GabonX »

KoolBak wrote:Complete and utter BS. Period.

I agree one hundred percent. With that said, you have to play the hand you're dealt.
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by joecoolfrog »

Looks like sensible legislation and not before time :D
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by Juan_Bottom »

I checked and GunLaws.com seems respectable in some ways. Lots of speculation but a solid history of admitting what is speculation. That said, they are claiming this is a leak. Go to the site and follow the link to what they claim is the actual bill.
As of a week ago the bill had no co-sponsers either. But you gotta keep an eye on this stuff.
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

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joecoolfrog wrote:Looks like sensible legislation and not before time :D

It will be great! I will have my guns (already bought), the criminals will have their guns and everyone who doesn't know anything about guns accept how much they hate them can live blissfully unaware of the reality that they live in! I feel bad for the younger generation but I don't expect this legislation to last forever. Anyhow most of the young ones were for Obama anyhow so...
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by Frigidus »

GabonX wrote:
joecoolfrog wrote:Looks like sensible legislation and not before time :D

It will be great! I will have my guns (already bought), the criminals will have their guns and everyone who doesn't know anything about guns accept how much they hate them can live blissfully unaware of the reality that they live in! I feel bad for the younger generation but I don't expect this legislation to last forever. Anyhow most of the young ones were for Obama anyhow so...


Good. You two have at it. Yee-haw. Me, I don't see the need for anything semi-automatic. Well, except for hunting. Yah...hunting and home defense. :?
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by Juan_Bottom »

You can use it to protect your rights from comrade Obama!!!!
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by KoolBak »

GabonX wrote:
joecoolfrog wrote:Looks like sensible legislation and not before time :D

It will be great! I will have my guns (already bought), the criminals will have their guns and everyone who doesn't know anything about guns accept how much they hate them can live blissfully unaware of the reality that they live in! I feel bad for the younger generation but I don't expect this legislation to last forever. Anyhow most of the young ones were for Obama anyhow so...


lol
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by hecter »

Some of you sure are getting all up in arms (excuse the pun) over this... Odd considering that this article looks entirely uncredible - it cites zero sources, has a tinyurl link in it and asks you "Go to this place and search this" which I did, followed the instructions given and then tried a few other things and still came up with nothing.
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by JACKAZZTJM »

Could be the silliest shit i ever read. Wont happen!
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by Juan_Bottom »

Type
H.R. 1022
in your browser. Its the same bill that failed in 2007. They are just adding to it.
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by Juan_Bottom »

Here you go guys, some more info on the gun war. Here we have Rahm Emanuel, the traitor from my corrupted homestate of Illinios.
If you are on No Fly List, No Gun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJBZZKlvrP4

He calls it "extra judicial." Does that mean outside the law? Did you know that there are over 1 million Americans on the No Fly list? Including Congressmen. They add thousands a month. There are 2 million on the English No Fly list. They are actually going to add people who haven't paid their taxes to the list.
And once you're on it, you can't just come off. OVER 1 MILLION AMERICANS ARE SUSPECTED TERRORISTS. Think about that. WTF? The DHS is clearly a front organization. Now if you're on that list you cannot buy a gun. You don't even need a misdemeanor! And yes, I do believe I'm on that list.

And here is info on the Veterans Disarment act.
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.a ... E_ID=59341

The American Legion and the Military Order of the Purple Heart are fighting it. But thank-you soldiers for serving our country, now give us your guns.
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by FabledIntegral »

I would completely support this. Should we be allowed to by a basic firearm? Yes. Should we be able to purchase ANY new gun that comes out on teh market? f*ck no. Technology has changed, if we come out with guns that fire bullets that upon impact create a mini nuclear explosion should it still be legal? Common fucking sense. The amendment is for basic protection, not to serve in your interest of whatever hobby you might possess. I don't give a rats fucking ass if having some big-ass gun gives you pleasure, just as I don't give a rats ass if some pedophile gets turned on by child porn - it should be illegal.
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by Juan_Bottom »

FabledIntegral wrote:I would completely support this.

Are you serious? Are you a traitor? This takes away your 2nd Amendment right and turns it into a priviledge! This will instantly take the right to own guns away from over a million Americans!!! People who have never been convicted of a crime! They are just put on a list. Ever wonder who decides who goes on the list? How many rights is that infringing upon???

And veterans who have had PTSD or ever taken medication will not be allowed to own a gun. Again, without any type of trial or conviction. Does that make sense to you?

The Attorny General has the right to ban any gun at will? At will?
All guns with pistol grip will be considered illegal. Do you even know what pistol grip means?
Everyone who owns a gun must get a license from the Federal Government?
All gun transfers must go through a dealer?
You have to submit a thumbprint and pass a test to even own a gun?
Did you miss this;
In making this determination, the bill says, “there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.

Who decides that? Who invented the term "sporting purpose?"


You're looking at the list of guns being banned, and not the fine print. Which is kinda silly anyway. Know how many Americans every year that get killed by a Bushman rifle?
They reserve the right to ban any gun. And because of the tracking clause, they'll know where each one is. They do not need a court to take your guns. The attorny General can take them, or just add you to the "no fly" list so that you can't buy them.
They are taking away your Constitutional Rights. And I'm not using that as a catchphrase, they seriously are taking your rights. They are taking guns away.


In the very least you should be against this bunch of gun legislation because it will kill hundreds if not thousands of people who dare to try to enforce it, and resist it.

And add this piece of info with HR 605 and 245 and PDD 51, and the Homeland Tours....
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by Juan_Bottom »

http://www.washingtonwatch.com/bills/sh ... HR_45.html

H.R. 45 the bill to license dealers and track all firearms sales.

Seriosly, gun enthusiests aren't going to give you their guns "just because."
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by FabledIntegral »

Juan_Bottom wrote:
FabledIntegral wrote:I would completely support this.

Are you serious? Are you a traitor? This takes away your 2nd Amendment right and turns it into a priviledge! This will instantly take the right to own guns away from over a million Americans!!! People who have never been convicted of a crime! They are just put on a list. Ever wonder who decides who goes on the list? How many rights is that infringing upon???

And veterans who have had PTSD or ever taken medication will not be allowed to own a gun. Again, without any type of trial or conviction. Does that make sense to you?

The Attorny General has the right to ban any gun at will? At will?
All guns with pistol grip will be considered illegal. Do you even know what pistol grip means?
Everyone who owns a gun must get a license from the Federal Government?
All gun transfers must go through a dealer?
You have to submit a thumbprint and pass a test to even own a gun?
Did you miss this;
In making this determination, the bill says, “there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.

Who decides that? Who invented the term "sporting purpose?"


You're looking at the list of guns being banned, and not the fine print. Which is kinda silly anyway. Know how many Americans every year that get killed by a Bushman rifle?
They reserve the right to ban any gun. And because of the tracking clause, they'll know where each one is. They do not need a court to take your guns. The attorny General can take them, or just add you to the "no fly" list so that you can't buy them.
They are taking away your Constitutional Rights. And I'm not using that as a catchphrase, they seriously are taking your rights. They are taking guns away.


In the very least you should be against this bunch of gun legislation because it will kill hundreds if not thousands of people who dare to try to enforce it, and resist it.

And add this piece of info with HR 605 and 245 and PDD 51, and the Homeland Tours....
Those who don't know their rights don't have any rights.


Hilarious. You ask if I'm a traitor because I think that people should not have a natural right to possess any firearm they want? I'm sorry - when taking philosophy I missed that as one of the basic rights that mankind is endowed with. If our Constitution gave us the right to rape children would you want to keep it? Christ that's a shitty argument.

They want to take guns away from Americans? GOOD. I don't want my fucking neighbor having a fucking semi-automatic machine gun. Do I think he has a right to have one? f*ck NO. Do I think he has the right to own a firearm? Yes. Do I think that right needs to be monitored strictly? Yes.

You're basically trying to say "omg, do you really think guns should be regulated?" and my response without even the slightest hesitation is "yes." Are criminals going to get semi-automatic machine guns anyways? If they want to, probably. Does that mean we need our own as well? Common sense tells me, no. You do not need a gun that fires such high caliber bullets it can go through god knows how many walls. Do I think those guns should be banned? Once again, YES. Of course they should reserve the right to ban any gun. They are taking away outdated and poorly phrased Constitutional rights that were never intended to serve this purpose in teh first place.

f*ck the second amendment, for all I care, remove it completely. I won't feel like my rights were infringed upon at all. Because it's not a right we should have in the first place. As said I do believe we should be able to own basic firearms, but I'd rather see "none" than "any." Like I said, should we allow a gun that fires bullets that cause mini nuclear explosions upon impact? Eh, sure, it's our rights to have one, right?
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by Juan_Bottom »

FabledIntegral wrote:Hilarious. You ask if I'm a traitor because I think that people should not have a natural right to possess any firearm they want?

FabledIntegral wrote:f*ck the second amendment,

Were you in office, that would actually be treason.

FabledIntegral wrote:I'm sorry - when taking philosophy I missed that as one of the basic rights that mankind is endowed with.

We're not talking philosophy, we're talking tyrrany. Mankind isn't endowed with anything, rights and privledges are something that we made up. So your view on these things is irrelevent. What is relevent is what that paper says. If you want to change it, pass an amendment. But until that day happens you'll do exactly what that paper says.

FabledIntegral wrote:If our Constitution gave us the right to rape children would you want to keep it? Christ that's a shitty argument.

No, that is. Lets not argue blindly.

FabledIntegral wrote: Do I think that right needs to be monitored strictly? Yes.

This isn't about monitering them, this is about taking them away from anyone who disagrees with you. At least from the Attorny General/DHS's point of view.

FabledIntegral wrote:You're basically trying to say "omg, do you really think guns should be regulated?"

Again, this has nothing to do with gun regulation. That's the trick. It's about taking all guns away. You're getting caught up in the "People can't have machine guns, this bill is the best way to stop that." That's the trick to fool people into giving their support. And I'm not even talking about the obvious violation of the 2nd Amendment. Or how many people will probably die directly from such legislation, if it's passed.

FabledIntegral wrote:They are taking away outdated and poorly phrased Constitutional rights that were never intended to serve this purpose in teh first place.

WTF? This is exactly why we have this right! To replace the government and protect our person.

FabledIntegral wrote:Like I said, should we allow a gun that fires bullets that cause mini nuclear explosions upon impact? Eh, sure, it's our rights to have one, right?

You're completely off topic and I don't think you're listening to what I'm saying. Try re-reading my post. I'm not argueing firepower or anything. I don't even own a gun.
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by KoolBak »

FabledIntegral......A "semi-automatic machine gun" is completely meaningless....an oxymoron.....doubly redundant...... there is no such animal - you dont know what you are talking about.

Reading your posts was so painful, I think it gave me cancer. Do you know where to buy nuclear bullets? I dont. You are going to legislate guns by how many walls they can pierce? Rice paper walls, like in China? Concrete walls like in a basement? This thread is done for me ;o(

I suggest doing some research or simply putting together a logical statement next time you decide to bless us fearsome gun-toters with your brilliance.
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by Iz Man »

KoolBak wrote:I suggest doing some research or simply putting together a logical statement next time you decide to bless us fearsome gun-toters with your brilliance.
Like that's going to happen....
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

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FabledIntegral wrote:I am a douchenozzle
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by GabonX »

Juan_Bottom wrote: And veterans who have had PTSD or ever taken medication will not be allowed to own a gun. Again, without any type of trial or conviction. Does that make sense to you?
You know, I may have to agree with this. I've heard of to many cases of good people who were veterans who lost it when they got back home. I'm not going to go into details with this, but if their is reason to believe that a veteran would be an unsuitable owner than they should not have access to fire arms.

I'm not trying to disrespect veterans and I'm not saying that this should apply to all veterans, but like anyone else, if there is reason to believe that a person is unstable they shouldn't have access to weapons. This doesn't even have to be a permanent restriction as a person's status may improve over time, but giving a gun to a veteran at the lowest point of his life can and does create problems.

Juan_Bottom wrote:Know how many Americans every year that get killed by a Bushman rifle?


No where near as many people that get killed by cars. Maybe we should only have public transportation too :mrgreen:
Last edited by GabonX on Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by jonesthecurl »

GabonX wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote: And veterans who have had PTSD or ever taken medication will not be allowed to own a gun. Again, without any type of trial or conviction. Does that make sense to you?
You know, I may have to agree with this. I've heard of to many cases of good people who were veterans who lost it when they got back home. I'm not going to go into details with this, but if their is reason to believe that a veteran would be an unsuitable owner than they should not have access to fire arms. I'm not trying to disrespect veterans and I'm not saying that this should apply to all veterans, but like anyone else, if there is reason to believe that a person is unstable they shouldn't have access to weapons. This doesn't even have to be a permanent restriction as a person's status may improve over time, but giving a gun to a veteran at the lowest point of his life can and does create problems.

Juan_Bottom wrote:Know how many Americans every year that get killed by a Bushman rifle?


No where near as many people that get killed by cars. Maybe we should only have public transportation too :mrgreen:


If you could arrange that, I'd be happy.
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Re: The Illegalization of guns in America--tracking the new bill

Post by GabonX »

Well at least you're consistent...
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