Let's have an epic discussion about religion!

[Gillipig]

There's only one thing I'd like to discuss in this thread and that's religion!
As an introduction I'm going to introduce myself and my views on religion. I'd really like to see others do the same so we can easily see where others are coming from so to speak.

I've been an atheist for as long as I can remember. I remember having an argument over religion with a christian girl in middle school .
My parents are atheists as well but weren't pushy about the whole thing. They didn't take arrangement to make sure I was going to be an atheist as well. They had a very laid back attitude to religion, whatever I chose I chose and it was not their business.
My views are a bit more edgy. I'm of the opinion that religion is a harmful element to society that needs to go away. When people point out the good bits with religion I find that the negatives outnumber the positives by far. Richard Dawkins is one of my greatest intellectual heroes.
That's a short introduction.

Here are some questions I think are appropriate for this thread but anything related to religion will do! (at least until we've got a good discussion going):

What role (if any) should religion have in a modern society?
If you believe in a deity, why do you do so?
If you don't believe in a deity, why don't you?
What is your view on those who think differently than you?

[thegreekdog]

What role (if any) should religion have in a modern society?

In an individual or family basis, people should have the freedom to practice whatever religion they choose within the bounds of the law.

Religion should have no role in government.

If you believe in a deity, why do you do so?
If you don't believe in a deity, why don't you?

The answer to both question is faith.

What is your view on those who think differently than you?

Live and let live.

[Gillipig]

What role (if any) should religion have in a modern society?

In an individual or family basis, people should have the freedom to practice whatever religion they choose within the bounds of the law.

Religion should have no role in government.

And what about religious indoctrination of children? Should faith schools be allowed for example?

If you believe in a deity, why do you do so?
If you don't believe in a deity, why don't you?

The answer to both question is faith.

Well thank you for preaching the truth but as it happens it's not a question where you can give an answer like that. What arguments do you have that supports your "belief"?

What is your view on those who think differently than you?

Live and let live.

So you're saying that you have no will to change their beliefs and you really don't care what they think? That was how I interpreted it.
I would also appreciate if you could tell a little about your history with religion. Did you have a religious upbringing, did you go to faith school etc.? What is your religion? (if you have any)

[Aradhus]

If you believe in a deity, why do you do so?
If you don't believe in a deity, why don't you?

The answer to both question is faith.

Faith isn't required to answer that question. From your perspective the question that requires faith is 'does god exist?'.

I've never read a compelling argument for why a god would exist, and I find descriptions of god from various religions to be quite horrific really, non-religious descriptions too. All in all I find the idea to be unsatisfying and would therefore prefer there not to be a god. There's no faith involved why my decision. I dont believe in god because I dislike the idea, to me it is unsatisfying and the absurdities that spring up are too overwhelming for me to overcome. That doesn't mean that I wont come across a version of god which I find satisfactory, I just haven't yet, though I doubt I will. For my position to change, and it can change, I would need either a compelling argument for its existence, sufficient dissection/rational analysis of the absurdities to dismiss them or discern why they're there or a version of God that I find reasonable and satisfactory.

[thegreekdog]

And what about religious indoctrination of children? Should faith schools be allowed for example?

I'm not really sure what a faith school is. Should parents be permitted to teach their children religion? Yes.

Well thank you for preaching the truth but as it happens it's not a question where you can give an answer like that. What arguments do you have that supports your "belief"?

I have no arguments or evidence that support my belief. I don't feel I'm required to have them. Are you looking for a particular response to this question? It would be helpful if you gave examples of what you're looking for here.

So you're saying that you have no will to change their beliefs and you really don't care what they think?

That's correct in the sense that I'm not going to prostelytize. On the other hand, I'm not really keen on people belittling religion or my religion. Like I say, live and let live.

I would also appreciate if you could tell a little about your history with religion. Did you have a religious upbringing, did you go to faith school etc.? What is your religion? (if you have any)

I am a practicing Catholic (go to church almost every Sunday). I've always been a practicing Catholic. My mother is a practicing Catholic. My father is agnostic and does not attend church services on a regular basis. I went to public school. My religious training consisted of after school Catholic teaching once a week (commonly referred to as CCD).

[the carpet man]

I remember having an argument over religion with a christian girl in middle school

all this shows is your intolerance of her beliefs. why not leave her alone?

[thegreekdog]

If you believe in a deity, why do you do so?
If you don't believe in a deity, why don't you?

The answer to both question is faith.

Faith isn't required to answer that question. From your perspective the question that requires faith is 'does god exist?'.

Yeah, that's a fair point. I retract that my answer is an answer to both questions.

[Gillipig]

Faith isn't required to answer that question. From your perspective the question that requires faith is 'does god exist?'.

That question does not require faith either! It's perfectly sane and rational to argue that I do not need faith to dispense god as described by any of the mainstream religions. All I need is common sense really. No observations of the natural world (or the unnatural world if you like) points to the direction of a god. There are plenty of illusions but once you start observing them more closely they fit perfectly into how the world would look like if there weren't a god. The natural world would look much different if it was "designed" by a judeo-christian god.

I've never read a compelling argument for why a god would exist, and I find descriptions of god from various religions to be quite horrific really, non-religious descriptions too. All in all I find the idea to be unsatisfying and would therefore prefer there not to be a god. There's no faith involved why my decision. I dont believe in god because I dislike the idea, to me it is unsatisfying and the absurdities that spring up are too overwhelming for me to overcome. That doesn't mean that I wont come across a version of god which I find satisfactory, I just haven't yet, though I doubt I will. For my position to change, and it can change, I would need either a compelling argument for its existence, sufficient dissection/rational analysis of the absurdities to dismiss them or discern why they're there or a version of God that I find reasonable and satisfactory.

Never mind that you wouldn't like being in a universe where there's a god. That doesn't really say anything. I mean there are plenty of things that we would like to be true but don't for a second actually believe are. I wish money grew on trees but I don't walk around expecting to find money trees! To say that you believe there's a god because you would like there to be is to deliberately delude yourself. And to have that sort of view only reversed (not believing in god because you wouldn't like it if it were true) really leaves you open to start believing in some form of deity based on a whim instead of due to rational thought.
What sort of arguments would you expect to change you into a believer? Only the religious pundits advocating "intelligent design" even try their hands at presenting evidence (misguided and false evidence) to support their religion. Most priest or theologians argue that it's a matter of faith and that there's a reason why you can't prove it. That sets them up for an uncomfortable conclusion though. The strongest case for religion is that it can't be scientifically disproved. But in the same sense the tooth fairy, Easter bunny and Santa Claus can't be disproved. You can't disprove the Easter bunny scientifically but most people don't walk around believing in it!

[Haggis_McMutton]

I remember having an argument over religion with a christian girl in middle school

all this shows is your intolerance of her beliefs. why not leave her alone?

Debate does not show intolerance. Debate is one of the main ways we progress as individuals and as a species.

What role (if any) should religion have in a modern society?

Keep it in your home.
No place in government, of course. Private faith schools should still be legal if they meet some minimum education requirements(never mention evolution => you're out).

Religion in its more extreme forms should be considered laughable and mockable in popular culture, just like any other unsubstantiated belief is.
If you believe in magic underwear or if you literally believe in god's miracles and so on, that should be ok to mock. Religion needs to lose it's sacred "untouchable" aspect.

If you don't believe in a deity, why don't you?

1. No reasonable evidence has been presented to point towards the existence of a deity.
2. The "truth" of religions just so happens to always assuage our deepest fears, huh fancy that coincidence. All major religions (especially western, don't have enough knowledge of eastern ones) are CLEARLY man-made.

What is your view on those who think differently than you?

It's mostly a matter of upbringing I guess. I was raised mildly religious, nothing serious though. If I were born in some other place and time who knows, I could easily be religious now.
As long as they are open to debate and discussing their beliefs, it's all good.

[Aradhus]

Faith isn't required to answer that question. From your perspective the question that requires faith is 'does god exist?'.

That question does not require faith either! It's perfectly sane and rational to argue that I do not need faith to dispense god as described by any of the mainstream religions. All I need is common sense really. No observations of the natural world (or the unnatural world if you like) points to the direction of a god. There are plenty of illusions but once you start observing them more closely they fit perfectly into how the world would look like if there weren't a god. The natural world would look much different if it was "designed" by a judeo-christian god.

I said from TGD'S perspective faith is required. You don't know in which manner the universe came into being, therefore it is not rational to dismiss an explanation, no matter how small the probability of that explanation.

Never mind that you wouldn't like being in a universe where there's a god. That doesn't really say anything. I mean there are plenty of things that we would like to be true but don't for a second actually believe are. I wish money grew on trees but I don't walk around expecting to find money trees! To say that you believe there's a god because you would like there to be is to deliberately delude yourself. And to have that sort of view only reversed (not believing in god because you wouldn't like it if it were true) really leaves you open to start believing in some form of deity based on a whim instead of due to rational thought.
What sort of arguments would you expect to change you into a believer? Only the religious pundits advocating "intelligent design" even try their hands at presenting evidence (misguided and false evidence) to support their religion. Most priest or theologians argue that it's a matter of faith and that there's a reason why you can't prove it. That sets them up for an uncomfortable conclusion though. The strongest case for religion is that it can't be scientifically disproved. But in the same sense the tooth fairy, Easter bunny and Santa Claus can't be disproved. You can't disprove the Easter bunny scientifically but most people don't walk around believing in it!

My ideas are not independant of each other. Given that there is no evidence, and that I find the pro arguments weak, I would prefer that god didn't exist because it creates absurdities, decimates my philosophical ideas and in my opinion really cheapens existence. However, whether I like an idea or not, when the evidence for and against is lacking, clearly comes into play.

[thegreekdog]

As long as they are open to debate and discussing their beliefs, it's all good.

I don't want to get into a whole "thing" about this, but how does one debate a belief? Am I required to defend something I believe in (if I'm not pushing my beliefs onto you)?

[Gillipig]

I'm not really sure what a faith school is. Should parents be permitted to teach their children religion? Yes.

Faith schools are schools in Great Britain where parents can put their children in a school publicly pro a certain religion. I thought you were British but now I see that you're not .
There are Christian faith schools and Muslim faith schools and Jewish faith schools. I'm very much against this because I think schools are supposed to be religion neutral. In a faith school all your teachers will be of the same religion. It is the perfect way to indoctrinate a child into it's parents religion. And it's done legally in the UK. It also further increases the separation of different groups in society.

I have no arguments or evidence that support my belief. I don't feel I'm required to have them. Are you looking for a particular response to this question? It would be helpful if you gave examples of what you're looking for here.

I didn't expect you to have any evidence, the very idea would be ridiculous but you must have some arguments!? How can you say you don't feel you need arguments to support your belief? In your normal life I trust that you don't believe in things without having good reason for it. You don't equal the opinion of hobo to a professor. You don't take everything you're being told as the absolute truth. Why would you take the words from a two thousand year old book written before industrial revolution anymore serious than you take a science fiction novel?

That's correct in the sense that I'm not going to prostelytize. On the other hand, I'm not really keen on people belittling religion or my religion. Like I say, live and let live.

There are plenty of reasons to why I'm fundamentally against religion. I'm not just not religious myself, I think religion is harmful for the society as a whole. I won't go into it right now because the clock is very late here in Sweden and it would take me at least an half hour to type all I want to say about this.

I am a practicing Catholic (go to church almost every Sunday). I've always been a practicing Catholic. My mother is a practicing Catholic. My father is agnostic and does not attend church services on a regular basis. I went to public school. My religious training consisted of after school Catholic teaching once a week (commonly referred to as CCD).

If I get you right you're saying that you are a catholic because that's how you've been raised? Don't you think that's a pretty week standpoint when determining how you think the world came about? I mean if you were born in Iran you would probably be a Muslim, if you were born in India you would be a Hindu, if you were born in classical Greece you would be believing in Zeus! You can't possibly justify that the Catholic church has got it all right and the others wrong just because you happen to been born with a mother of that faith. I do not base my opinions of if there's a god on what belief my parents have. Have I been affected by my parents beliefs? To a degree probably so but likely less than most people because they were very religion tolerant.
What on an intellectual level makes you choose Catholic Christianity over the hundreds of other religions out there?

[Gillipig]

I remember having an argument over religion with a christian girl in middle school

all this shows is your intolerance of her beliefs. why not leave her alone?

Why shouldn't children be able to discuss religion at school? You make it sound like I bullied her and stole her bag or something. For the record she didn't leave me alone, I just stood up for my opinions!

[Haggis_McMutton]

I don't want to get into a whole "thing" about this, but how does one debate a belief? Am I required to defend something I believe in (if I'm not pushing my beliefs onto you)?

Hmm, if you have a belief that Ron Paul would be the best choice for president that's clearly something that can be debated and you should be able to defend.

Why is religion different?

I mean, I'm not saying you have to go and actively defend each of your beliefs. I'd just like people to look at religion with the same reason and logic they look at most of their other beliefs.
Having said that, if your justification of faith is "I have personal reasons to believe". There's not much left to debate.

[thegreekdog]

There are Christian faith schools and Muslim faith schools and Jewish faith schools. I'm very much against this because I think schools are supposed to be religion neutral. In a faith school all your teachers will be of the same religion. It is the perfect way to indoctrinate a child into it's parents religion. And it's done legally in the UK. It also further increases the separation of different groups in society.

We have Catholic schools here (among others). They teach the normal things taught in schools, including evolution I believe. They also teach religion and students are required to go to classes that teach religion. I suppose that's indoctrination, but there is no law or other mandate requiring that children attend certain religious schools. Therefore, children are free to make up their own minds; perhaps they are not able to do so until they reach adulthood, but once they do that, they can feel free to make up their own minds. I have a number of friends who went to Catholic school who are now agnostic or atheist. In terms of separation, I suppose it does encourage that, although Catholics are supposed to treat everyone equally and "love thy neighbor" and all that.

I didn't expect you to have any evidence, the very idea would be ridiculous but you must have some arguments!? How can you say you don't feel you need arguments to support your belief? In your normal life I trust that you don't believe in things without having good reason for it. You don't equal the opinion of hobo to a professor. You don't take everything you're being told as the absolute truth. Why would you take the words from a two thousand year old book written before industrial revolution anymore serious than you take a science fiction novel?

Because of faith? Again, I'm trying to understand what you're wanting me to get at here. I don't believe one needs a particular reason to believe in God or a god or whatever. I believe in certain things without having a good reason, I suppose, although I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

There are plenty of reasons to why I'm fundamentally against religion. I'm not just not religious myself, I think religion is harmful for the society as a whole. I won't go into it right now because the clock is very late here in Sweden and it would take me at least an half hour to type all I want to say about this.

I disagree (and not for any particular religious reason). I'd like to read your reasons to why you think religion is harmful to society before I let you know why I disagree (it would help me frame the discussion better).

If I get you right you're saying that you are a catholic because that's how you've been raised? Don't you think that's a pretty week standpoint when determining how you think the world came about? I mean if you were born in Iran you would probably be a Muslim, if you were born in India you would be a Hindu, if you were born in classical Greece you would be believing in Zeus! You can't possibly justify that the Catholic church has got it all right and the others wrong just because you happen to been born with a mother of that faith. I do not base my opinions of if there's a god on what belief my parents have. Have I been affected by my parents beliefs? To a degree probably so but likely less than most people because they were very religion tolerant.
What on an intellectual level makes you choose Catholic Christianity over the hundreds of other religions out there?

I think part of the reason I'm Catholic is how I was raised. I don't think that's necessarily a weak argument so long as there are other reasons. Apart from faith (which does not appear to answer the "why" question you've been asking), I feel better after going to church, I enjoy the sermons given by priests, it's a comfortable part of my life (in other words, I'm used to it), I like performing charity and the Catholic church provides well for that. I contemplated converting to Islam because of the Catholic institution itself (specifically the problems associated with the abuse of children and then the defense by the Church), but that didn't happen. I have not, nor will I, justify that the Catholic Church got it right and others got it wrong; that would be rather intolerant of me; I'm not sure if my previous posts led you to believe that, but if they did, I didn't mean them to read that way. I chose Catholicism not based on any intellectual reason, so, again, I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.

Sorry, I shouldn't say that. I know exactly what you're trying to get at. I'm just not the kind of person that's able to give you the argument you're looking for (so that you can roll out your already thought-out discussion points). You shouldn't assume that all religious people behave a certain way or justify their actions in a certain manner.

[thegreekdog]

I don't want to get into a whole "thing" about this, but how does one debate a belief? Am I required to defend something I believe in (if I'm not pushing my beliefs onto you)?

Hmm, if you have a belief that Ron Paul would be the best choice for president that's clearly something that can be debated and you should be able to defend.

Why is religion different?

I mean, I'm not saying you have to go and actively defend each of your beliefs. I'd just like people to look at religion with the same reason and logic they look at most of their other beliefs.
Having said that, if your justification of faith is "I have personal reasons to believe". There's not much left to debate.

Right, that's kind of what I was getting at. I'm not going to debate or discuss my beliefs because they won't change as a result of that discussion or debate. I suppose that means I'm not thinking critically about religion or my religion or whatever, but that's okay in my mind. I just don't want you to think I'm some douchebag because I won't debate religion with you. Of course, I'll debate whether religion is good, bad or neutral for society; whether religion belongs in government; etc., but I think it's pretty pointless to debate about why I'm Catholic or believe in God.

EDIT - I will also say that, typically, when I say an atheist generate a discussion of religion it's because he or she wants to be able to prove out why believing in God or a particular religion is ridiculous. On the other side, since the religious person either won't debate or will not be able to prove the existence of God, the atheist wins. Such a discussion is not constructive by any means and serves as a type of ego boost for the atheist (a "hahah, I'm better than you stupid religious people" kind of thing), which I find pretty disengenuous. I'm not suggesting that all religious debate are like that or that all atheists are like that; I've just found this to be the case with many religious discussions initiated by atheists. That being said, if a religious person is going off about God or whatever, I also find that to be rather ridiculous; and I know that happens all the time (witness for example Rick Santorum).

[BigBallinStalin]

1) What role (if any) should religion have in a modern society?
2) If you believe in a deity, why do you do so?
3) If you don't believe in a deity, why don't you?
4) What is your view on those who think differently than you?

1) As long as that role doesn't coerce others, it's fine.
2) N/A
3) Some fairy tells are good; some aren't. Plus, the whole scientific/empirical requirement gets in the way of accepting the Lord as Truth.
4) KILL THE INFIDELS.

[the carpet man]

Debate does not show intolerance. Debate is one of the main ways we progress as individuals and as a species.

he said argument, which implies angry exchange and not rational debate.

if anyone tries to debate religion with me i tell them to go and sell their manure somewhere else. they are boring.

[KoolBak]

I find it difficult to believe that you are 66, gillipig.....

Back to "discussion"

[Pedronicus]

What role (if any) should religion have in a modern society?

it should have f*ck all to do with modern society. we no longer believe that the sun revolves around the earth, we don't think the earth is flat, so get with the picture and use your bible for something useful ..... like to start barbecues or garden bonfires or to wipe your arse if you run out of bogroll.

If you believe in a deity, why do you do so?

I don't

If you don't believe in a deity, why don't you?

because it's a huge pile of bollocks. Up to about the 1800's I could understand and accept people believing in this bullshit, but not any more. education and science have taught the masses how shit works.

What is your view on those who think differently than you?

brainwashed fucktards who should be in no role of power because they are deluded.

[kentington]

It seems like the OP has a bone to pick.
You ask these questions of us and then you say we can't believe the way we do, because it doesn't make sense. Is everyone in the world rational? Is everyone good at debating, expressing themselves?
All of your posts come across as if the answers challenge you directly. The title of your thread should be, "Try to convert me and lose." Something like that. TGD was giving his answers to your questions and it seems like you take offense to them.
I also find it funny that people who say religion is harmful and ridiculous usually speak viciously, Perdronicus, of those who do participate in religion. You want people of religion to tolerate all of your beliefs and what not, and yet you don't even respect them as a human being. We all have the freedom of choice and belief even if we are oppressed or spoken down to about it.

1. Separate from Government but everyone has their choice.
2. I don't find the arguments against a deity to be convincing. In the end our laws of physics say that matter cannot be destroyed or created, no matter how far back you go there has to be a starting point and something had to be outside the laws to create something.
3. I won't try to convince other people, if they ask me I will tell them. I generally stay away from these kinds of discussions. No one wants to change their own view just others.

[AlgyTaylor]

Well, Gillipig. I'm an atheist too. I agree with you that religion is often harmful, but I'm not in favour at all of militant action against it. Freedom of speech and thought is very, very important and people shouldn't be prevented from thinking things, even if they're totally wrong about them. I've believed loads of things that I now don't believe (eg in Father Christmas) but don't think you should be punished in any way for having those beliefs, or that I was wrong to have them at the time.

And yes, I put religious belief in the same category as belief in Father Christmas

What role (if any) should religion have in a modern society?

The church and the state should be separate. That isn't to say that the church should not be political, or that there is no room in politics for a religious point of view - just that the state should act to ensure that no religion is given undue prominence or favour.

If you believe in a deity, why do you do so?
If you don't believe in a deity, why don't you?

I don't, and the reason is there's absolutely no reason to believe there is a deity. Saying that you can't prove that <insert name of deity> doesn't exist is no reason, I could say that you can't prove that there isn't an invisible pink elephant living in Liverpool, it doesn't make my point valid or prove that there's any reason to think that it might be true.

What is your view on those who think differently than you?

Meh. Roughly. If they want to believe something and it brings them happiness, go for it. As long as it doesn't harm anyone else. If it does, it should be dealt with by the laws of the land (as any other crime would). I mean, if some Christian wanted to, I dunno, think 'the gays' are evil, that's their point of view. If they overstep the mark, there are laws in place to deal with them (without resorting to 'hate crimes', which are a load of bollocks)

[AlgyTaylor]

And what about religious indoctrination of children? Should faith schools be allowed for example?

Yes, within reason, but they shouldn't teach nonsense (eg no 'intelligent design' rubbish). Let's not forget that the church were pioneers in offering free education. They aren't all bad. But they do need to fall within the same standards as other schools, and shouldn't become propaganda tools. In the UK at least, I think that the vast majority of faith schools are beneficial to all.

That's correct in the sense that I'm not going to prostelytize. On the other hand, I'm not really keen on people belittling religion or my religion. Like I say, live and let live.

Tend to agree with thegreekdog here. Most religious belief isn't a problem to anyone, and is generally beneficial. (am I the first atheist to outwardly say that? ). There's a minority who aren't, but let's not tar everyone with the same brush.

I am a practicing Catholic (go to church almost every Sunday). I've always been a practicing Catholic. My mother is a practicing Catholic. My father is agnostic and does not attend church services on a regular basis. I went to public school. My religious training consisted of after school Catholic teaching once a week (commonly referred to as CCD).

If it's not too personal, how much of it all do you believe? I mean, do you believe in evolution? Is the structure of the catholic church 'correct'? Is the pope the most holy person on the earth, or is everyone (catholics) as holy and the pope is the figurehead? Heaven and hell? If you're a good person, will you go to heaven if you're not a catholic?

By the way, whatever your beliefs are - that's cool, I'll not criticise them (other than maybe talking in a sociable way). I'm just curious about what your average churchgoing catholic believes!

[thegreekdog]

If it's not too personal, how much of it all do you believe? I mean, do you believe in evolution? Is the structure of the catholic church 'correct'? Is the pope the most holy person on the earth, or is everyone (catholics) as holy and the pope is the figurehead? Heaven and hell? If you're a good person, will you go to heaven if you're not a catholic?

I believe in pretty much everything.

I don't believe in evolution; I think there is a sufficient amount of evidence to prove evolution so belief is not really the right word.

I think the structure of the Catholic church is fine although I think women priests should be permitted. I think the pope's just a guy in a hat; I have a lot of respect for the pope (that being said). The heaven and hell stuff is a bit more complex to me. I think it's a matter of living a life like a Catholic should more than anything else (I mean treating people well, etc.)

[Haggis_McMutton]

Right, that's kind of what I was getting at. I'm not going to debate or discuss my beliefs because they won't change as a result of that discussion or debate. I suppose that means I'm not thinking critically about religion or my religion or whatever, but that's okay in my mind.

If you don't mind me asking, why is that ok? That's one of the things I don't get about some religious people. Seems a bit like cognitive dissonance to me.

EDIT - I will also say that, typically, when I say an atheist generate a discussion of religion it's because he or she wants to be able to prove out why believing in God or a particular religion is ridiculous. On the other side, since the religious person either won't debate or will not be able to prove the existence of God, the atheist wins. Such a discussion is not constructive by any means and serves as a type of ego boost for the atheist (a "hahah, I'm better than you stupid religious people" kind of thing), which I find pretty disengenuous. I'm not suggesting that all religious debate are like that or that all atheists are like that; I've just found this to be the case with many religious discussions initiated by atheists. That being said, if a religious person is going off about God or whatever, I also find that to be rather ridiculous; and I know that happens all the time (witness for example Rick Santorum).

Yeah, that's probably fair. I went through a phase like that a couple years ago, when I was pretty new to atheism.
I guess I just completely failed to understand why any reasonable person could be religious at that point in time, therefore the trying to prove they're idiots. I also had this deep conviction that if only everyone else would see the light it would be so much easier to progress as a species and so on. It's funny in retrospect, guess it was pretty similar to a religious belief.

On the other hand, a lot of religious people aren't content to say "I have faith for personal reasons" and leave it at that, but try to prove that there's some kind of evidence that skews the probability towards the existence of god, and that's just silly.