Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

[grifftron]

So change "portals can attack eachother" to "All portals can attack eachother" in the key should do it? or should i make them all pink?

[Blitzaholic]

So change "portals can attack eachother" to "All portals can attack eachother" in the key should do it? or should i make them all pink?

All portals can attack each other, and as far as pink? I rather not use pink, can we pick another color? maybe some shade of purple?

[hiddendragon]

I wonder if there if some way to make neutrals aggressive...it would be new and exciting to not only worry about the opposing team but neutrals as well

[natty dread]

I wonder if there if some way to make neutrals aggressive...it would be new and exciting to not only worry about the opposing team but neutrals as well

Not possible...

[Mr_Adams]

I wonder if there if some way to make neutrals aggressive...it would be new and exciting to not only worry about the opposing team but neutrals as well

has been suggested in both XML updates and new game play settings. I believe it was on the to do list in one of these venues at one point.

[grifftron]

So change "portals can attack eachother" to "All portals can attack eachother" in the key should do it? or should i make them all pink?

All portals can attack each other, and as far as pink? I rather not use pink, can we pick another color? maybe some shade of purple?

Lol. Blitz that was a joke about the whole Vday pink deal. I won't use pink or purple or shades or purple... put i will make them stand out more when i get some time to work on it.

-griff

[grifftron]

Click image to enlarge.

had some time to work on some of the things suggested

-Changed Portals to be a little brighter and changed Key to say "All portals can attack eachother".. hope this is more clear
-Changed Territory numbers so that no territory should be able to attack 2 territories of the same number (same problem as feudal had, but this is changed already, let me know if you see any still).
-spelled out 10 clan names on drop points, clan names on castles are too big for the space there. We will have to go with abrevs. unless someone has another idea. We can spell out full names under the map too like some maps have... Should I change clan drop points back to abrieves? Let me know
-Also I changed portals to be numbered 1-13... that way none can attack same number portals.

-griff

[Blitzaholic]

looking much better griff, however, the top center clan you have named The Legend, it is The Legion.

Also, on the Immortal Assassins homeland, rearrange it so they can attack 2 adjacent territories instead of just one, but keep same amount of total lands.

[denominator]

I have a couple of minor suggestions at this point:

1) The wording on the Pinnacle attacking Drop Points is a bit ambiguous to me right now. I would rather see "Drop Points may only be attacked by Pinnacle", or something along those lines.

2) I suggest numbering all territories under #10 with a preceding 0 - 01, 02, 03, etc. The Hive map has this issue and it's much more user friendly to have the preceding 0s, especially with the Portals being able to attack each other.

3) IH has a really good point about what the Drop Points can attack. While I don't think all the clan areas need to be similar, the initial 2 or 3 territories should be equal, especially with the one way attacks. My personal preference would be to have 3 possible exits from the Drop Point.

4) The Spanking Monkeys and the Imperial Dragoons are currently at an advantage with the Portal placement. Each of the other Drop Points needs to go through 2 neutral territories to hit the Portal (at a minimum) while these two need to go through only 1 each.

[Blitzaholic]

I have a couple of minor suggestions at this point:

1) The wording on the Pinnacle attacking Drop Points is a bit ambiguous to me right now. I would rather see "Drop Points may only be attacked by Pinnacle", or something along those lines.

well, wait a minute here? Pinnacle can attack the drop points, but it is not the only thing that can attack the drop points, I mean if someone busts thru a clan region, like Thota goes thru and kills legion drop point, you know? so we cannot word it that drops points can only be attacked by Pinnacle, because that is not true, there is other options to attack drop points, you just have to attack a lot of lands to get there. We just wanted all to know as another option that pinnacle can attack all drop points and move armies like poland map function.

2) I suggest numbering all territories under #10 with a preceding 0 - 01, 02, 03, etc. The Hive map has this issue and it's much more user friendly to have the preceding 0s, especially with the Portals being able to attack each other.

I like this idea, we can add this.

3) IH has a really good point about what the Drop Points can attack. While I don't think all the clan areas need to be similar, the initial 2 or 3 territories should be equal, especially with the one way attacks. My personal preference would be to have 3 possible exits from the Drop Point.

I agree, I think we can just keep all the clan areas similar and add 3 possible exits for all drop points, I was thinking at least 2, but 3 for all , I would be ok with as well.

4) The Spanking Monkeys and the Imperial Dragoons are currently at an advantage with the Portal placement. Each of the other Drop Points needs to go through 2 neutral territories to hit the Portal (at a minimum) while these two need to go through only 1 each.

Agreed, all should have to go through 2 neutrals territories to reach a drop point, sounds reasonable to me. I will talk with griff when he has time.

Thx denominator for your suggestions, they were very good ones. After we make these changes, can you think of anything else or is it almost pretty much good to go and us start to work on graphics soon?

[Bones2484]

I have a couple of minor suggestions at this point:

1) The wording on the Pinnacle attacking Drop Points is a bit ambiguous to me right now. I would rather see "Drop Points may only be attacked by Pinnacle", or something along those lines.

well, wait a minute here? Pinnacle can attack the drop points, but it is not the only thing that can attack the drop points, I mean if someone busts thru a clan region, like Thota goes thru and kills legion drop point, you know? so we cannot word it that drops points can only be attacked by Pinnacle, because that is not true, there is other options to attack drop points, you just have to attack a lot of lands to get there. We just wanted all to know as another option that pinnacle can attack all drop points and move armies like poland map function.

Look at the map, this is not how it's set up. The one-way arrows clearly indicate that the drop points can only attack out to surrounding territories.

[Blitzaholic]

I have a couple of minor suggestions at this point:

1) The wording on the Pinnacle attacking Drop Points is a bit ambiguous to me right now. I would rather see "Drop Points may only be attacked by Pinnacle", or something along those lines.

well, wait a minute here? Pinnacle can attack the drop points, but it is not the only thing that can attack the drop points, I mean if someone busts thru a clan region, like Thota goes thru and kills legion drop point, you know? so we cannot word it that drops points can only be attacked by Pinnacle, because that is not true, there is other options to attack drop points, you just have to attack a lot of lands to get there. We just wanted all to know as another option that pinnacle can attack all drop points and move armies like poland map function.

Look at the map, this is not how it's set up. The one-way arrows clearly indicate that the drop points can only attack out to surrounding territories.

Hmmm, I thought for example Thota 6, could attack EE castle, then go into The Legion to go kill drop point? Not sure when this changed? I must of missed an update? I do not get why the arrows are one way only? Is this what a majority wanted?

[denominator]

I have a couple of minor suggestions at this point:

1) The wording on the Pinnacle attacking Drop Points is a bit ambiguous to me right now. I would rather see "Drop Points may only be attacked by Pinnacle", or something along those lines.

well, wait a minute here? Pinnacle can attack the drop points, but it is not the only thing that can attack the drop points, I mean if someone busts thru a clan region, like Thota goes thru and kills legion drop point, you know? so we cannot word it that drops points can only be attacked by Pinnacle, because that is not true, there is other options to attack drop points, you just have to attack a lot of lands to get there. We just wanted all to know as another option that pinnacle can attack all drop points and move armies like poland map function.

Look at the map, this is not how it's set up. The one-way arrows clearly indicate that the drop points can only attack out to surrounding territories.

Hmmm, I thought for example Thota 6, could attack EE castle, then go into The Legion to go kill drop point? Not sure when this changed? I must of missed an update? I do not get why the arrows are one way only? Is this what a majority wanted?

Griff added it to the update on the 8th:

Ok here are some changes i made on the map (in the key actually) Lets see what others think

1. Only Pinnacle can attack drop points
2. Pinnacle will reset to 7 neutral after each players turn

(first post on page 32). It works very similar to WWII Poland where to kill someone you have to take the central point.

Personally, I like it this way better. Like WWII Poland, you have to get the central territory to win, but unlike WWII Poland, you can still attack all of the other territories and get bonuses that way.

[Blitzaholic]

ok, that is fine, I am not sure I like it as much, but, I am open and if a majority prefer it this way, then it stays. sounds like many were suggesting it and griff made it in the update, which is good.

[denominator]

ok, that is fine, I am not sure I like it as much, but, I am open and if a majority prefer it this way, then it stays. sounds like many were suggesting it and griff made it in the update, which is good.

The problem is that if you don't have it this way, the Pinnacle, which is the key part of your map, will never (or very rarely) get used. It's much easier just to go through other player's territories than through all those neutrals.

[Blitzaholic]

excellent point denominator!

[Evil DIMwit]

ok, that is fine, I am not sure I like it as much, but, I am open and if a majority prefer it this way, then it stays. sounds like many were suggesting it and griff made it in the update, which is good.

The problem is that if you don't have it this way, the Pinnacle, which is the key part of your map, will never (or very rarely) get used. It's much easier just to go through other player's territories than through all those neutrals.

I don't think forcing players to go for the center in order to win is a good idea; letting drop points be attacked by surrounding territories gives players more options as to how they take down their opponents.
If you want to make it so the Pinnacle gets more use, (A) give a higher bonus for holding territories in No Man's Land, and/or (B) make it so portals outside NM only connect to portals inside NM. That way players will go through NM and have troops there, so the pinnacle becomes a better deal, while players still have the option of circumventing it if the competition for it is too hectic.

[grifftron]

Yeah the reason pinnacle was changed was to give a driving force to players to want to go there, that's why we made pinnacle the only thing to attack drop points, but maybe like Evil Dim said, we can make some other kind of driving force bonus to make pinnacle more appealing and players would want to go there, but at the same time be able to attack drop points from connecting lands in clans territories... would raising the bonus on No Mans Land for holding terts do this? More input on this.

still working on other changes that were mentioned... and clearing a lot right now.

-griff

[grifftron]

Updated according to Denom's suggestions...

Click image to enlarge.

1. portals should all now be at least 2 neutral terts from Drop Points
2. added numbers 01,02,03,04,05 ect...
3. 8 clans now have 3 terts to go into from drop points, 2 (in diff corners of the map) have 2 terts to go into from drop points. Is this ok? I wanted some to be a little diff at least... but im not the gameplay expert, if more want 3 then ok, let me know
4. also changed the key again according to denoms suggestion....

we need to figure out if we are gonna go with this pinnacle one way attack thing to drop points or drop it and give more bonus to NM lands... please comment

-griff

[Blitzaholic]

It is the draft Grifftron requested me for. Shows how to connect 3 clans in 2 places.

We decided to scrap this idea for now natty, as many were liking it as it is.

ok, that is fine, I am not sure I like it as much, but, I am open and if a majority prefer it this way, then it stays. sounds like many were suggesting it and griff made it in the update, which is good.

The problem is that if you don't have it this way, the Pinnacle, which is the key part of your map, will never (or very rarely) get used. It's much easier just to go through other player's territories than through all those neutrals.

I don't think forcing players to go for the center in order to win is a good idea; letting drop points be attacked by surrounding territories gives players more options as to how they take down their opponents.
If you want to make it so the Pinnacle gets more use, (A) give a higher bonus for holding territories in No Man's Land, and/or (B) make it so portals outside NM only connect to portals inside NM. That way players will go through NM and have troops there, so the pinnacle becomes a better deal, while players still have the option of circumventing it if the competition for it is too hectic.

Yes Evil DIMwit, this is exactly what I was thinking, of course you worded it better. I thought this was the initial idea, but then, others wanted something else. I feel like a yo-yo sometimes trying to please everyone and cannot do so. I like the idea or drop points being attacked by pinnacle and surrounding territories for more options. Pinnacle can get more use by getting a +1 troops for every no mans territory you own, should we make it more? I also agree that clans portals should ONLY be able to connect to No Mans Land portals, NOT other clan portals. This will help improve game play and give more options, I love it.

[grifftron]

Let me know what we are doing with Pinnacle here Blitz, and what bonuses are going to be, i am guessing it will still be able to attack drop points but will not be the only thing that can attack drop points, correct? Lets move up bonuses on NM land so that it will become more attractive for players if we are gonna do it this way, let me know, so i can make changes accordingly.

-griff

[denominator]

I like having to go to the Pinnacle to have to attack the Drop Points. However, I see the argument for having the Pinnacle attack but not be the only route, as it's going to jam games at the pinnacle (like WWII Poland jams a PAF).

I still think the Drop Points should 1-way attack, as that stops players from driving through another person in one turn and forces more tactical play. So the Drop Points should have at least 2 spots on the map that they can be attacked from.

Let me propose this:

1) Drop Points can only attack out one-way into the 2 or 3 adjacent territories.

2) Pinnacle can directly attack any Drop Point.

3) Castles can bombard the two immediately adjacent Drop Points (ex - EE can bombard Legion and THOTA).

That allows for 2 points of attack to each drop point, and makes the Pinnacle still worth grabbing, although it is possible to eliminate another player without having to take the Pinnacle.

I was possibly thinking of allowing Drop Points to bombard Castles as well, but am unsure there. I think it would be better to stay away from bombardment from the Drop Points because then a player can stack troops there and still pick up cards without moving.

Your other updates look great, griff. I'm still not entirely sure about the 2 vs 3 exits, so I'll let someone with a bit more experience with map making comment on that one. The portals are all balanced now, which makes the map balanced.

[Evil DIMwit]

I still think the Drop Points should 1-way attack, as that stops players from driving through another person in one turn and forces more tactical play. So the Drop Points should have at least 2 spots on the map that they can be attacked from.

3) Castles can bombard the two immediately adjacent Drop Points (ex - EE can bombard Legion and THOTA).

I suspect that suggestion would only exacerbate the problem you want to avoid: Instead of having to plow through the neighbor's home area to reach their drop point, you can stop at the castle, bombard the next drop point to death (all the while holding the vital choke point and auto-deploy that the castle represents) and only then have to enter the neighbor's area, by which point you would be much more prepared to outnumber them numerically.

I think you underestimate a player's ability to defend their own drop point. If you look at the Feudal maps, their castles are perfectly in the open and yet there is no imbalance to gameplay.more

Furthermore, you should generally be careful not to overpower the castles. They're already very strategic choke points, and have a high auto-deploy -- which means that once you hold it, you're likely to keep it. Nor can they be attacked remotely from the pinnacle. As it is, castles are more powerful than drop points.

[denominator]

I still think the Drop Points should 1-way attack, as that stops players from driving through another person in one turn and forces more tactical play. So the Drop Points should have at least 2 spots on the map that they can be attacked from.

3) Castles can bombard the two immediately adjacent Drop Points (ex - EE can bombard Legion and THOTA).

I suspect that suggestion would only exacerbate the problem you want to avoid: Instead of having to plow through the neighbor's home area to reach their drop point, you can stop at the castle, bombard the next drop point to death (all the while holding the vital choke point and auto-deploy that the castle represents) and only then have to enter the neighbor's area, by which point you would be much more prepared to outnumber them numerically.

I think you underestimate a player's ability to defend their own drop point. If you look at the Feudal maps, their castles are perfectly in the open and yet there is no imbalance to gameplay.more

Furthermore, you should generally be careful not to overpower the castles. They're already very strategic choke points, and have a high auto-deploy -- which means that once you hold it, you're likely to keep it. Nor can they be attacked remotely from the pinnacle. As it is, castles are more powerful than drop points.

Hmmm. If the Drop Points are accessible from the regular territories, I really don't see the use of the Pinnacle. All the Portals can attack each other, so it's easy to jump across the entire map in a single turn, and if you can attack the Drop Points directly then you don't need to take the Pinnacle ever.

That's why I was suggesting the possibility of having the Drop Points bombard the Castles - to allow for defence against the choke point pile up.

[Blitzaholic]

Let me know what we are doing with Pinnacle here Blitz, and what bonuses are going to be, i am guessing it will still be able to attack drop points but will not be the only thing that can attack drop points, correct? Lets move up bonuses on NM land so that it will become more attractive for players if we are gonna do it this way, let me know, so i can make changes accordingly.

-griff

Ok, I will post what I was thinking below.

I like having to go to the Pinnacle to have to attack the Drop Points. However, I see the argument for having the Pinnacle attack but not be the only route, as it's going to jam games at the pinnacle (like WWII Poland jams a PAF).

I still think the Drop Points should 1-way attack, as that stops players from driving through another person in one turn and forces more tactical play. So the Drop Points should have at least 2 spots on the map that they can be attacked from.

Let me propose this:

1) Drop Points can only attack out one-way into the 2 or 3 adjacent territories.

They also can bombard territories in their clan region that are not adjacent.

2) Pinnacle can directly attack any Drop Point.

Correct and then this resets at 7 neutrals on next players turn.

3) Castles can bombard the two immediately adjacent Drop Points (ex - EE can bombard Legion and THOTA).

Great thought here denominator, but, I would say NO as it gives too much advantage to castles.

That allows for 2 points of attack to each drop point, and makes the Pinnacle still worth grabbing, although it is possible to eliminate another player without having to take the Pinnacle.

Which defeats the purpose of the pinnacle.

I was possibly thinking of allowing Drop Points to bombard Castles as well, but am unsure there. I think it would be better to stay away from bombardment from the Drop Points because then a player can stack troops there and still pick up cards without moving.

Right, NO to drop points bombarding castles.

Your other updates look great, griff. I'm still not entirely sure about the 2 vs 3 exits, so I'll let someone with a bit more experience with map making comment on that one. The portals are all balanced now, which makes the map balanced.

Thanks so much for your suggestions denominator, I think the map is very balanced as well.

Here are the 5 game play strategies you need to add in your next update griff.

1. There should be 3 adjacent lands to every drop point, not some 2 and some 3, all 3.

2. The Pinnacle can get more use by getting a bonus of +2 troops extra to deploy for every ONE no mans territory you own.

3. Clan portals will ONLY be able to ONE WAY attack to No Mans Land portals, NOT other clan portals. This way you'd have to go through the pinnacle if you want to use the portals.

4. Get rid of the one way arrows, this way it is allowed for other clans to invade other clan starting points, the same way feudal epic can. On this map though, you have options, they can go after it thru the lands, or go after it thru the pinnacle, but, at least there is options. The fact that each clan starting points has an auto +3 every round will slow Thota going for Legion starting point for example and they may need to go the pinnacle route maybe? this allows for intrigue with each no mans land bonus being +2 per every 1 land owned.

5. Set the Pinnacle at 7 neutrals and resets at 7 neutrals automatically again the start of another players turn. Also, remember that Pinnacle works like the Poland map of PAF and can attack any clan starting point and you can advance the troops their and keep attacking.

P.S. just for clarification: the only bombardment area on this map is clan starting points to hit there own clan territories that are NOT adjacent to their clan starting points. Ex. Angels of Death clan starting point could bombard AOD 13 as it is NOT adjacent to clan starting point.