@SK about no-lynch/lynch debate
You might also want to read the essays over there:
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 9&t=222775
I'd like a little precision from jfm about his claim, because there seems to be a contradiction between
your soft claim and
your full claim. In the first one you explicitly state you don't believe we have any vigs, in the second you say the wording of your role lends you to believe town has vigs. What made you change your mind?
jfm10 wrote:this is a Tokie game and we are fish.
There won't be any guns and i doubt thier will be any players chatting together during the night.I have a protective role and that's all i got to say.
jfm10 wrote:My ability is "prevent all attacks against your target"
I have been trying to tell yous i am town and i just get the you must be scum for giving out info on yourself.My ability is weak at the beginning of the game as i have a less than 7% chance of picking the scums target unless i make myself the target and then they waste thier night.
I have no choice now but to target myself every night but atleast town now knows that i can only be lynched.Also note attacks is plural so you can count on vigilantes in this game.
About the chaps & mets issue: I like the case on chaps, not so much the one on mets. He seemed pretty on the fence about jfm after his soft claim, which to me is playing it on both sides, so he could point out he didn't wanted jfm dead while still throwing shade at him (see below), role-fished (but I think others on the jfm wagon have engaged in worse role fishing, see below), and
His vote on mets looked more like an OMGUS than an actual argument.
chapcrap wrote:
jfm's claim came out of nowhere, IMO. It seems REALLY fishy to me. That being said, I'm not sure if I believe him, but I think if someone is claiming that straight off, we should give them the benefit of the doubt, not lynch him. No one is counterclaiming, so I would believe him at this point.
Random points:
I take issue with Tobi, pershy, blacky and SK's opportunistic bandwagonning and role-fishing.
Tobikera wrote:
Darin44 wrote:You done is in one other game you we play. and I said the don't talk much and would say something later
you gave a couple day to claim before the couple day was over I was lynch. now you are tring to do it again. why because I'm not good with word? FOS
Not at all. Admittedly, my vote against you was based on specious logic. I just wanted to get everyone to focus on one person, get them to L-2, and get some more info. Nothing personal. jfm10 seems to be everyone's player of choice, which I am unsure about, but to maintain my actual intent I will join that wagon.
UNVOTE
VOTE jfm10
blacky365 wrote:I fully agree with comments above re getting a claim on D1.
Vote JFM
Im slightly worried that this leaves only 3 votes for a lynch, if scum have not yet voted then they can quickly lynch before we even get a claim... is that not a worry?
blacky365 wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:blacky365 wrote:Its not that I dont believe JFM, its just he hasnt given us anything... your fish is just flavour and not indication of a role.
So now you have to choose between lynching on policy ("he was supposed to tell us his role at this point and he didn't! shun the non-believer!") or lynching who you actually think is scum. Choose carefully.
Agreed, its a straight choice and i didn't really think he is scum... until he just voted me for stating the obvious... that is actually rather scummy!
So now, my reasons for NOT unvoting are that I think he actually could be scum in the end!
Could we get lucky on D1 with a scum lynch?
Those 3 posts are pretty interesting. Both blacky and tobi state they don't really believe jfm is scum, but still want to press him to claim. At this point, there is no reason for town to want to out the role of someone they believe is town, because that would only hurt town by allowing scum to know who to focus their night actions on.
Their "I'm not confident in that wagon but will jump on it" attitude makes me feel like they're trying to clear themselves from future accusations: "remember, I said I didn't think he was scum, but since I wanted someone to claim I've been forced to vote jfm"
And Tobi's previous vote was on Darin. Weird way to want information from people than to try to get someone who no one interacted with because he hasn't posted to claim (and it came from someone who had made 2/3 posts, depending on whether you include the post in which he votes him, all about flavor). The only thing you'd learn about him is his claim, and apart from a lucky counter-claim, you wouldn't be better off at all. Willing to give a pass to SK for voting the inactive this time as it is his first game
pershy wrote:no, I don't think he has
vote jfm
I think we will get an extension of 48 hours but we need a claim and a lynch. If your claim is sufficiently good jfm then we might still have time to pressure chaps but probably not.
We need a lynch either way on D1 for information.
sorry nothing personal from me either.
Sirius Kase wrote:
Still mulling over the value of a day one lynch....
It wouldn't be much fun for the one eliminated, but then, someone under pressure might reveal. No one is near having enough votes to be lynched,
so I'll be an enabler, let someone else make the deciding vote.
VOTE jfm10
He's already revealed stuff, but if he's scum, it's all unreliable obfuscation anyway.
What do you even mean by that last line? "He said some stuff about his role, but it doesn't mean it's true so we should lynch him"? Not much in terms of arguments in the vote; saying you'll "let someone else make the deciding vote" looks again like you're distancing yourself from an eventual lynch.
pershy wrote:But that's just based on a gut feeling. I suppose the likely candidates based on current votes to get any traction are chapcrap or mets or possibly myself according to what a few people have said. I personally don't find chapcrap scummy.
But there probably isn't time unless the mod grants another couple of days I guess. I feel we have had a fairly productive D1 at least and we have got one claim which cleared jfm in my eyes at least for now. Seems a fitting ability for this game -
especially the detail of the ability starting weak and getting stronger. Seemed legit to me.
pershy seemingly not understanding that every role that can target people becomes more useful as the game progresses. As time goes by you have a smaller pool of people to investigate/kill/jail/... and a better idea who to target. I mean, there's a reason why vigilantes should wait and not kill on the 1st phase they're able to. For someone who said he played mafia 8 years that's pretty weird to see that part as a confirmation the role is legit. It is the least useful part of jfm's claim, as BuJ already stated.
pershy wrote:..and Bujaber just came onto my radar.
A fine OMGUS if you ask me, even if there wasn't a vote associated with it.
I also liked
BuJ case about pershy.
Tobikera wrote:Read some more, Strike Wolf. My goal was to get jfm10 to do what you are supposed to do at L-2. I didn't even get a flavor claim out of him the first time. It was obvious that there were enough newbies here that
I thought it important to stress that you are supposed to provide good info at L-2 or suffer a potential lynch. Not responding to such pressure is considered scummy. No threat, no results, no game....just wild ass guesses, done at random on a whim.
Tobikera wrote:Pershy is usually much smoother and accommodating than what I have seen since he reappeared and started posting again. Also, without much basis, he immediately take jfm10 to L-1. This is atypical pershy play from my experience with him in about 10-12 games. Most of these recent posts appear to be smoke and are defensive for him. Yes, I think we should have another claim, and I think it should be pershy.
IF I was voting for a lynch, it would be him rather than jfm10.
UNVOTE
VOTE Pershy
You pointed out yourself that you expected people to claim when brought at L-2 or you'd lynch them, then you switch your vote for pershy. Mind you, that was
before jfm fully claimed. At that point, would you still have voted jfm and just happened to find pershy a better suited candidate or had you dropped the jfm case completely?
All in all, if I had to rank the players I find the scummiest (on decreasing order of scumminess), I'd go with pershy, tobi, blacky=chap, jfm (as an aside can people stop saying the only argument against jfm was that he soft-claimed? As I pointed out already, my main reason for voting him is how and why he bandwagonned on Ragian early on (
link1 link2). I liked how jfm tried to get an extension going and claimed (I assumed so we could try to pressure someone else).
strike wolf wrote:@razor: Can docs and other protective roles target themselves?
Keep in mind a positive answer wouldn't necessarily mean jfm was lying but could mean he wasn't aware about that (if it wasn't specified on his role PM). Combining that with the fact that not knowing whether jfm (if he is truthful) could protect himself would mostly be an handicap to scum as it would be harder for them to guess who is protected, I don't think I want to know the answer.
Unvote Vote chap. I'd be more enclined to vote pershy and would switch to him if others do too, but as far as I can tell he has 1 vote on him (tobi) and BuJ said he would vote him. That doesn't make him a likely lynch candidate.
fp'ed well, by a lot of people
@jfm: how is that alignment indicative? And tobi's unvote should have counted. A different shade of red is still the red color, guess raz just missed it.
@TX: that is what a doc does, protecting people from night kills. That claim seems even more powerful than a regular doc because it seems he can protect from other people than just scum.
