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Who would you vote for in the primaries?

 
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Postby luns101 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:16 am

This is the first primary season where I'm not sure who I should vote for. At first, I was very skeptical of Huckabee because of his lack of experience in foreign policy but then I read his comments in context and he seems to have a good head on his shoulders. I would hate to see people not vote for Romney simply because he's a Mormon. Anyway, it's not an easy field to pick from this year for the Republicans.

I don't agree with much on the issues with those on the Democratic side, but I do feel that either Joe Biden or Bill Richardson have what it takes to lead the country. Mrs. Clinton claims that she has all these years of experience but I just can't see how that stacks up against either of those 2 gentlemen.

Just please tell me that the Ron Paul nightmare is going to be over by Super Tuesday!
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Postby gryffin13 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:51 am

CrazyAnglican wrote:
jnd94 wrote:Even if Mike Huckabee somehow wins the Republican candidacy, he will never win in the elections.


Mike is the only one to the Republican's to run against the Clinton's and win (and he's done it more than once, being from their home state and Bill's hometown). I wouldn't sell him so short.


If you ever watch a republican debate you will hear Giulliani say MULTIPLE times how he defeated clinton head to head.
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Postby Skittles! on Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:00 am

I tell you what is crazy - American politics. Seriously, trying to grasp it is so confusing.. No wonder why so many people don't vote :wink:
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Postby Napoleon Ier on Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:53 am

Skittles! wrote:I tell you what is crazy - American politics. Seriously, trying to grasp it is so confusing.. No wonder why so many people don't vote :wink:


Libertarian Texan Republicans = good guys, all other neo-Socialists, authortarians in the pay of grand apatride capital of levantine lobbies and eco-freak metrosexual vegans = bad guys.

easy as pie, as I believe the expression is current in the New World colonies, which my namesake rather mistakenly, it must be said, sold...
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Postby CrazyAnglican on Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:43 am

Napoleon Ier wrote:easy as pie, as I believe the expression is current in the New World colonies, which my namesake rather mistakenly, it must be said, sold...


:-k I'm pretty sure Russia sold us more than France did. I'll have to check myself on that though. :-s

Skittles! wrote:I tell you what is crazy - American politics. Seriously, trying to grasp it is so confusing.. No wonder why so many people don't vote :wink:


I dunno I never have understood how you guys keep up with all those political parties and coalitions.

I think those that don't vote have convinced themselves that "Dancing with the Stars", etc. is of more consequence. I don't understand it either I've voted in nearly every election since I was 18. I think I missed one last year. while last year when my soon was being born, but I think that's it.
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Postby Snorri1234 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:06 am

CrazyAnglican wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:This links explains it quite well.
Basically, he considers his BA in biblical studies to be a theology degree.
It isn't.


The link you provided said that his Biblical Studies degree could technically be considered a theology degree (I wouldn't know what else it would be considered). I can't see where he's trying to mislead anyone about his qualifications. After all you admitted that some of his ideas were pretty good from that foreign policy essay.

Basically he is misleading because to most people a theology degree requires seminary finished, so yeah you could consider a BA in biblical studies a theology degree, but only because it's religion. It's not a Theology Degree, it's a degree in a subject related to theology.


Are you familiar with the curriculum? I think I'm pretty average, and I would consider a degree in Biblical Studies a theological one. I certainly can't see this as being a basis for thinking he's crazy. :wink:


I'm not familiar with it, and certainly biblical studies deals with religion.
However, unless the course deals with military tactics, terrorist group details and basically anything concerning the war on terror, I fail to see how his degree makes a difference.


Hmmm. A guy is crazy if he makes a statement in ignorance (He admits it was a mistake) sixteen years ago, believes that God created the world but hasn't attempted to force that view on anyone, and believes that God is helping him in his daily life? Sorry it just seems you and I have a different view of crazy.

Yes he admits it was a mistake, but he's saying they didn't know at the time. Even though Ronald Reagan said 5 years earlier that quarantine wasn't the option and AIDS wasn't so contagious.
I mean wtf?
This is a guy who thinks isolating the carrier isn't quarantine!
His belief that God created the world is no problem, but you again miss the point that he doesn't object to it being taught alongside evolution as "evolution is only a theory". Aside from the fact that believing in creationism still is, well, just, well crazy, thinking it's a good idea to teach it in class is just bad.
And believing God is behind your rise in the polls, instead of y'know, you just being popular, is kinda strange.
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Postby Napoleon Ier on Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:06 am

Nah we sold you 2,140,000 km² and the Russkies sold ya 1,717,855 km².
Plus they sold you a freezing wasteland with some salmon, oil and a few nice glaciers thrown in, we pretty much sold you the bulk of modern america. The purchase, technically isn't valid under current french law, since Napoleon "illegitimatly" declared himself ruler. Well, I suppose it was one of his mistakes, that and invading Russia.... :( .
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Postby CrazyAnglican on Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:56 am

Snorri1234 wrote: It's not a Theology Degree, it's a degree in a subject related to theology.


:-k The absolute nerve of this guy. Saying he's got a Theology degree, when its only a degree in a field related to theology! :wink:


Snorri1234 wrote:I'm not familiar with it, and certainly biblical studies deals with religion. However, unless the course deals with military tactics, terrorist group details and basically anything concerning the war on terror, I fail to see how his degree makes a difference.


He has a degree in a "field related to theology"; he has experience working in that field. He has experience as the governor (Chief executive) of Arkansas. He has set out a pretty good plan for foreign affairs, including (gasp) actually talking to the Iranians face-to-face instead of bombing them.

As for military tactics, that's kind of what the Chiefs of Staff are for.

He's qualified.



Snorri1234 wrote:This is a guy who thinks isolating the carrier isn't quarantine!


You mean tought dont you? He's admitted the mistake, and it was sixteen years ago. Who exactly is he talking about quarenteening now? Weren't you complaining yesterday that he was letting too many people out of prison?

Snorri1234 wrote: His belief that God created the world is no problem, but you again miss the point that he doesn't object to it being taught alongside evolution as "evolution is only a theory". Aside from the fact that believing in creationism still is, well, just, well crazy, thinking it's a good idea to teach it in class is just bad.


He was the governor of Arkansas for two terms, and they still teach evolution in Arkansas schools. Governor's have more say in American school curriculum than U.S. Presidents do. Rest assured evolution isn't going anywhere. :wink:
Snorri1234 wrote:And believing God is behind your rise in the polls, instead of y'know, you just being popular, is kinda strange.


Probably not to the Christians who are voting for him.
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Postby muy_thaiguy on Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:00 am

Napoleon Ier wrote:Nah we sold you 2,140,000 km² and the Russkies sold ya 1,717,855 km².
Plus they sold you a freezing wasteland with some salmon, oil and a few nice glaciers thrown in, we pretty much sold you the bulk of modern america. The purchase, technically isn't valid under current french law, since Napoleon "illegitimatly" declared himself ruler. Well, I suppose it was one of his mistakes, that and invading Russia.... :( .
I believe he was planning on taking it back by force later on. Though a few things over there in Europe just didn't quite work for him though...
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Postby CrazyAnglican on Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:19 am

Napoleon Ier wrote:Nah we sold you 2,140,000 km² and the Russkies sold ya 1,717,855 km².


Yeah I thought that may have been the case. Ya' got me there. :)

Napoleon Ier wrote:Plus they sold you a freezing wasteland with some salmon, oil and a few nice glaciers thrown in,

Oil, forests, salmon, Alaskan king crab, really big bears, and don't forget ......gold. Those Russians rock :D . It was a big scandal called Seward's folly. Seward being the guy who approved the deal, until they struck gold. Then it seemed like a pretty good idea all of the sudden.

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h230.html

Napoleon Ier wrote:we pretty much sold you the bulk of modern america.


Yep, you guys rock too. I think President Jefferson got it for something like $7.50 a square mile.
Last edited by CrazyAnglican on Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby muy_thaiguy on Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:23 am

CrazyAnglican wrote:
Napoleon Ier wrote:Nah we sold you 2,140,000 km² and the Russkies sold ya 1,717,855 km².


Yeah I thought that may have been the case. Ya' got me there. :)

Napoleon Ier wrote:Plus they sold you a freezing wasteland with some salmon, oil and a few nice glaciers thrown in,

Oil, forests, salmon, Alaskan king crab, really big bears, and don't forget ......gold. Those Russians rock :D . It was a big scandal called Seward's folly. Seward being the guy who approved the deal, until they struck gold. Then it seemed like a pretty good idea all of the sudden.

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h230.html

Napoleon Ier wrote:we pretty much sold you the bulk of modern america.


Yep, you guys rock too. I think President Jefferson got it for something like $7.00 a square mile.
It was Jefferson, and the rest sounds about right as well.
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Postby jay_a2j on Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:30 am

luns101 wrote:Just please tell me that the Ron Paul nightmare is going to be over by Super Tuesday!



That's truly sad. Do you even know why you hate him so much? On another site I frequent, someone posted a lot of stuff about Huckabee and it wasn't good. But yeah, maybe the Paul nightmare will be over and a far worse one will begin.
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Postby Snorri1234 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:31 am

CrazyAnglican wrote: :-k The absolute nerve of this guy. Saying he's got a Theology degree, when its only a degree in a field related to theology! :wink:

Quite. I'm not going to say I have a degree in medicine when I only have a degree in medical information studies. It's related but it's not the same.
He has a degree in a "field related to theology"; he has experience working in that field. He has experience as the governor (Chief executive) of Arkansas. He has set out a pretty good plan for foreign affairs, including (gasp) actually talking to the Iranians face-to-face instead of bombing them.

As for military tactics, that's kind of what the Chiefs of Staff are for.

He's qualified.

Good thing I didn't say he wasn't qualified.
I'm going to explain this once more.
He is saying his BA makes him more qualified than all the other candidates, because he is the only one who understands the nature of the war.
That translates to: "Hey guys, I had this course 30 years ago on the bible so I'm pretty much the only guy here who understands islamic terrorism. So vote for me."
You're just missing the point that not only is his degree not related to fighting islamic terrorism in any way, but he is claiming that that qualifies him above all others to be leading the war on terror.

You mean tought dont you? He's admitted the mistake, and it was sixteen years ago. Who exactly is he talking about quarenteening now? Weren't you complaining yesterday that he was letting too many people out of prison?

He thought that 7 years after pretty much everyone knew AIDs wasn't that harmfull or contagious. He isn't admitting that is was stupid to think that then, he's merely saying he wouldn't say the same thing now with all the new information we have. He is also not even admitting he called for quarantine. So he does think that quarantine isn't the same as isolating the carrier. Either he doesn't understand his own words or he's crazy.
You don't really seem to understand anything I've been saying.
He still thinks that his statement back then wasn't completely stupid, even though only crazy conspiracy nuts like Jay would believe AIDS was so unbelievably contagious to warrant isolation.


He was the governor of Arkansas for two terms, and they still teach evolution in Arkansas schools. Governor's have more say in American school curriculum than U.S. Presidents do. Rest assured evolution isn't going anywhere. :wink:

I wouldn't be so sure...

Probably not to the Christians who are voting for him.

They think God is somehow influencing the polls or the people voting? Because I'm sure God is still a big fan of all that free-will shit.
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Postby Dancing Mustard on Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:34 am

jay_a2j wrote:
luns101 wrote:Just please tell me that the Ron Paul nightmare is going to be over by Super Tuesday!
That's truly sad. Do you even know why you hate him so much?

Because CC's most stupid posters have spent months spaming up the forum with retarded youtube videos that are full of bullshit, and hi-jacking every thread they could with eulogies about how much they enjoy sucking Ron Paul's cock?

That's why I hate him so much anyway...
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Postby jay_a2j on Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:57 am

Mike Huckabee recently named Richard Haas (the President of the CFR) as his advisor on foreign policy. CNN's WOLF BLITZER asked "Who are your principal foreign policy advisers, Governor?" Mike Huckabee responded: "Well, I have a number of people from whom I get policy. I'm talking to Frank Gaffney, I talk to Richard Haas"

So what does Richard Haas believe in? Here's an article below which was written by Haas for the Tapei Times. It basically states the Bill of Rights and Constitution should be given up in favor of a cooperative world body run by elite consensus. Who needs individual rights in the techno-futuristic world police state? And you thought liberty was in jeopardy now? Just wait till you see what your children will have to deal with. Get activated folks, These police state freaks want to shape your future into a control grid enforced through the fear based reaction to state sponsored false flag terror.

State Sovereignty Must be Altered in Globalized Era

In the age of globalization, states should give up some sovereignty to world bodies in order to protect their own interests

By Richard Haass

Taipei Times - For 350 years, sovereignty -- the notion that states are the central actors on the world stage and that governments are essentially free to do what they want within their own territory but not within the territory of other states -- has provided the organizing principle of international relations. The time has come to rethink this notion.

The world's 190-plus states now co-exist with a larger number of powerful non-sovereign and at least partly (and often largely) independent actors, ranging from corporations to non-governmental organizations (NGOs), from terrorist groups to drug cartels, from regional and global institutions to banks and private equity funds. The sovereign state is influenced by them (for better and for worse) as much as it is able to influence them. The near monopoly of power once enjoyed by sovereign entities is being eroded.

As a result, new mechanisms are needed for regional and global governance that include actors other than states. This is not to argue that Microsoft, Amnesty International, or Goldman Sachs be given seats in the UN General Assembly, but it does mean including representatives of such organizations in regional and global deliberations when they have the capacity to affect whether and how regional and global challenges are met.
Less is more

Moreover, states must be prepared to cede some sovereignty to world bodies if the international system is to function. This is already taking place in the trade realm. Governments agree to accept the rulings of the WTO because on balance they benefit from an international trading order even if a particular decision requires that they alter a practice that is their sovereign right to carry out.

Some governments are prepared to give up elements of sovereignty to address the threat of global climate change. Under one such arrangement, the Kyoto Protocol, which runs through 2012, signatories agree to cap specific emissions. What is needed now is a successor arrangement in which a larger number of governments, including the US, China, and India, accept emissions limits or adopt common standards because they recognize that they would be worse off if no country did.

All of this suggests that sovereignty must be redefined if states are to cope with globalization. At its core, globalization entails the increasing volume, velocity, and importance of flows -- within and across borders -- of people, ideas, greenhouse gases, goods, dollars, drugs, viruses, e-mails, weapons and a good deal else, challenging one of sovereignty's fundamental principles: the ability to control what crosses borders in either direction. Sovereign states increasingly measure their vulnerability not to one another, but to forces beyond their control.

Globalization thus implies that sovereignty is not only becoming weaker in reality, but that it needs to become weaker. States would be wise to weaken sovereignty in order to protect themselves, because they cannot insulate themselves from what goes on elsewhere. Sovereignty is no longer a sanctuary.

This was demonstrated by the American and world reaction to terrorism. Afghanistan's Taliban government, which provided access and support to al-Qaeda, was removed from power. Similarly, the US' preventive war against an Iraq that ignored the UN and was thought to possess weapons of mass destruction showed that sovereignty no longer provides absolute protection.

Imagine how the world would react if some government were known to be planning to use or transfer a nuclear device or had already done so. Many would argue -- correctly -- that sovereignty provides no protection for that state.

Necessity may also lead to reducing or even eliminating sovereignty when a government, whether from a lack of capacity or conscious policy, is unable to provide for the basic needs of its citizens. This reflects not simply scruples, but a view that state failure and genocide can lead to destabilizing refugee flows and create openings for terrorists to take root.

The NATO intervention in Kosovo was an example where a number of governments chose to violate the sovereignty of another government (Serbia) to stop ethnic cleansing and genocide. By contrast, the mass killing in Rwanda a decade ago and now in Darfur, Sudan, demonstrate the high price of judging sovereignty to be supreme and thus doing little to prevent the slaughter of innocents.
Conditions needed

Our notion of sovereignty must therefore be conditional, even contractual, rather than absolute. If a state fails to live up to its side of the bargain by sponsoring terrorism, either transferring or using weapons of mass destruction, or conducting genocide, then it forfeits the normal benefits of sovereignty and opens itself up to attack, removal or occupation.

The diplomatic challenge for this era is to gain widespread support for principles of state conduct and a procedure for determining remedies when these principles are violated.

The goal should be to redefine sovereignty for the era of globalization, to find a balance between a world of fully sovereign states and an international system of either world government or anarchy.

The basic idea of sovereignty, which still provides a useful constraint on violence between states, needs to be preserved. But the concept needs to be adapted to a world in which the main challenges to order come from what global forces do to states and what governments do to their citizens rather than from what states do to one another.

Richard Haass is president of the Council on Foreign Relations and the author of The Opportunity: America's Moment to Alter History's Course.




JudicialWatch ranks Huckabee among top 10 corrupt politician for 2007.

6. Governor Mike Huckabee (R-AR): Governor Huckabee enjoyed a meteoric rise in the polls in December 2007, which prompted a more thorough review of his ethics record. According to The Associated Press: “[Huckabee’s] career has also been colored by 14 ethics complaints and a volley of questions about his integrity, ranging from his management of campaign cash to his use of a nonprofit organization to subsidize his income to his destruction of state computer files on his way out of the governor’s office.” And what was Governor Huckabee’s response to these ethics allegations? Rather than cooperating with investigators, Huckabee sued the state ethics commission twice and attempted to shut the ethics process down.



Yeah, vote Huckabee! :roll:
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Postby CrazyAnglican on Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:02 am

Snorri1234 wrote:
CrazyAnglican wrote:He was the governor of Arkansas for two terms, and they still teach evolution in Arkansas schools. Governor's have more say in American school curriculum than U.S. Presidents do. Rest assured evolution isn't going anywhere. :wink:

I wouldn't be so sure...


I would. These are straight from to the Curriculum guide used in Arkansas public schools. The headings indicate LS (Life Science) 3 (the strand) 8 (the grade level) 12-17 (the specific items to be mastered by the students) http://arkedu.state.ar.us/curriculum/wo ... 011006.doc

LS.3.8.12
Compare the theory of evolution to the characteristics of a scientific theory

LS.3.8.13
Identify basic ideas related to biological evolution:
• diversity of species
• variations within species
• adaptations
• natural selection
• extinction of a species

LS.3.8.14
Explain that the fossil record provides evidence of life forms’
appearance, diversification, and extinction

LS.3.8.15
Explain the process of natural selection

LS.3.8.16
Identify genetic traits that make organisms more likely to survive and reproduce in a particular environment

LS.3.8.17
Investigate careers, scientists, and historical breakthroughs related to natural selection and the fossil record.
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Postby Snorri1234 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:07 am

CrazyAnglican wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:
CrazyAnglican wrote:He was the governor of Arkansas for two terms, and they still teach evolution in Arkansas schools. Governor's have more say in American school curriculum than U.S. Presidents do. Rest assured evolution isn't going anywhere. :wink:

I wouldn't be so sure...


I would. These are straight from to the Curriculum guide used in Arkansas public schools.


Oh, you can't be this stupid.

The problem is that schools are pressurizing their teachers not to teach it, not that the law doesn't say they should. When a governor seems completely unconcerned with stopping it, I call him fucking crazy because he is fucking crazy.
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Postby dwightschrute on Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:11 am

CrazyAnglican wrote:
jnd94 wrote:Even if Mike Huckabee somehow wins the Republican candidacy, he will never win in the elections.


Mike is the only one to the Republican's to run against the Clinton's and win (and he's done it more than once, being from their home state and Bill's hometown). I wouldn't sell him so short.
Do you really think he can win the Republican nomination? Can he beat Giuliani and McCain? I dont think so.
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Postby CrazyAnglican on Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:13 am

Snorri1234 wrote:
CrazyAnglican wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:
CrazyAnglican wrote:He was the governor of Arkansas for two terms, and they still teach evolution in Arkansas schools. Governor's have more say in American school curriculum than U.S. Presidents do. Rest assured evolution isn't going anywhere. :wink:

I wouldn't be so sure...


I would. These are straight from to the Curriculum guide used in Arkansas public schools.


Oh, you can't be this stupid.

The problem is that schools are pressurizing their teachers not to teach it, not that the law doesn't say they should. When a governor seems completely unconcerned with stopping it, I call him fucking crazy because he is fucking crazy.


I am a teacher. I teach the curriculum regardless of what anyone says, and I've never heard anyone say not to teach the curriculum. Kindly refrain from insulting my intelligence as part of your conspiracy theory.

dwightschrute wrote:
CrazyAnglican wrote:
jnd94 wrote:Even if Mike Huckabee somehow wins the Republican candidacy, he will never win in the elections.


Mike is the only one to the Republican's to run against the Clinton's and win (and he's done it more than once, being from their home state and Bill's hometown). I wouldn't sell him so short.
Do you really think he can win the Republican nomination? Can he beat Giuliani and McCain? I dont think so.


I don't know Dwight. He's coming up in the polls. Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton both say he's someone to watch as a darkhorse candidate.
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Postby dwightschrute on Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:18 am

Darkhorse candidates dont always win. McCain or Giuliani will probably get the nomination, but you never know.
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Postby Snorri1234 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:18 am

CrazyAnglican wrote:I am a teacher. I teach the curriculum regardless of what anyone says, and I've never heard anyone say not to teach the curriculum. Kindly refrain from insulting my intelligence with your conspiracy theory.


Dude, the post you quoted contained a link. It basically talked about the worrying trend that more and more schools avoid the subject of evolution. A newspaper article in the Arkansas times or whatever it was.

I didn't insult your intelligence with a conspiracy theory, I insulted it when you clearly didn't read the frigging link.

Your suggestion that because you have never been pressurized not to teach teh curriculum it is non-existant is silly. Especially when it does seem to be the case in many places.
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Postby jay_a2j on Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:22 am

Just say NO to Mike Huckabee

No to Giuliani

No to Romney

No to Hillary



VOTE RON PAUL!
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Postby Snorri1234 on Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:23 am

jay_a2j wrote:Just say NO to Mike Huckabee

No to Giuliani

No to Romney

No to Hillary


I wasn't going to say yes.
Barack Obama is my favourite.
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Postby muy_thaiguy on Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:24 am

jay_a2j wrote:Just say NO to Mike Huckabee

No to Giuliani

No to Romney

No to Hillary



VOTE RON PAUL!
Sweet, I can say yes to McCain! :D
"Eh, whatever."
-Anonymous


What, you expected something deep or flashy?
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Private 1st Class muy_thaiguy
 
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Postby Chris7He on Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:42 am

Napoleon Ier wrote:Nah we sold you 2,140,000 km² and the Russkies sold ya 1,717,855 km².
Plus they sold you a freezing wasteland with some salmon, oil and a few nice glaciers thrown in, we pretty much sold you the bulk of modern america. The purchase, technically isn't valid under current french law, since Napoleon "illegitimatly" declared himself ruler. Well, I suppose it was one of his mistakes, that and invading Russia.... :( .


Does that mean we need to give you guys the land back?

PS- Napolean sold the Lousiana Territory to pay for the wars. I don't know how making yourself ruler is a mistake....
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