The most evil tyrant of 20th century

[Harijan]

On a more serious note, I actually went with Kim.

I don't think Hitler actually qualifies as a Tyrant. He had a broad based political party supporting him from day one. Even if you do accept him as a tyrant, he was definitively the most efficient killer (killed more people per year than anyone else).

Stalin and Mao are kind of black holes. We know that entire regions were "sanitized" over several years, but no idea how many people actually died as a result. I would have to guess that Mao killed more for two reasons. 1. he had more people to kill. 2. he had more time to kill them.

But as far as cold blooded cruel full-on crazy the Il-Jong's take the cake. They have been in power for far longer than anyone else on the list. They have not only participated regularly in the ethnic cleansing practices popular to crazy tyrants, they also are starving their people to death in general just to keep them obediant.

Estimates are that hundreds of thousands each year are dying from lack of basic necessities like food and water in North Korea, a country that has the technology and infrastructure it needs to prevent such a shortage. This has been going on for over 50 years now.

No one can say for certain the full extent of the death dealt at the hands of the Il-jong dynasty, but even if it does not rival Mao or Stalin in raw numbers. North Korea surpasses them in cruelty and percentage of population killed.

[strike wolf]

Umm...I'd respond to krusher but I can't tell if he's being sarcastic or not.

[krusher]

why dont you add Truman to the list instead of Hitler. He him self signed the papers to have 2 citys full of civilians whiped out of the map with his Atomic bombs, now thats a true murderer.

[bryguy]

u missed darth vader

[strike wolf]

Trust me if he wanted the execution of every jew, he wouldn't of bothered to make concentration camps...

Are you feeling alright?

[strike wolf]

why dont you add Franklin D. Roosevelt to the list instead of Hitler. He him self signed the papers to have 2 citys full of civilians whiped out of the map with his Atomic bombs, now thats a true murderer.

Actually that was Truman. FDR was already dead at that point.

[krusher]

Truman is what I meant...

[ignotus]

Hitler may have been alot of things, but he was in no way evil, he didnt kill 1 single soul through his entire life (other then him self)... Hitler is shown as the Evil figure that we know today because of the liberal U.S media who won the war and determined what roll hitler would play in History, and if you were to take a History course about WW2 through the perspective of Germany you will see that Hitler wanted nothing more then a perfect world with no borders .

He was a wussy, that's why he didn't kill no one with his own hand. But he knew and ordered.

BTW Do you know how did they trained guards in concentration camps to kill inmates for their (guards) first time? Their officers got them drunk and ordered them to shoot. Second time was easiest.
And those who executed got special gifts for doing their job done (extra rations, meat, liquor, cigarettes, et cetera).

[Harijan]

Trust me if he wanted the execution of every jew, he wouldn't of bothered to make concentration camps...

Umm, huh?

Concentration camps were the most efficient system of racial extermination ever made. The Nazi systematic extermination of jews was designed to kill all jews, but ensure that no non-jews were killed. It was very important to the Nazis that no people were mistaken as jews and killed as a result, that would have been a travesty.

It should also be noted that while Hitler is given credit for concentration camps and the whole extermination plan, it was not his idea, nor did he design or oversee the execution of the concentration camp plan.

[unriggable]

Trust me if he wanted the execution of every jew, he wouldn't of bothered to make concentration camps...

Death camps, right?

[krusher]

ignotus that is more of the Liberal Propaganda inserted into the History books by the vitors of the war. if Hitler had won the war, the same lies and bias media would of be inserted in the history books condeming the Americans. by the way FDR put 120,000 German-Americans and Japanese-Americans into Concentration camps but funny enough they choose to rename them "relocation camps".

[strike wolf]

ignotus that is more of the Liberal Propaganda inserted into the History books by the vitors of the war. if Hitler had won the war, the same lies and bias media would of be inserted in the history books condeming the Americans. by the way FDR put 120,000 German-Americans and Japanese-Americans into Concentration camps but funny enough they choose to rename them "relocation camps".

I'm pretty sure you mean internment camps. secondly if you look at it from a non-biased sort of way, the internment camps didn't involved working people to death in the worst living conditions possible and throwing their bodies into a furnace. finally, I believe those camps were mainly Japanese Americans.

I would not defend the internment camps but to say they are at the same level as the German concentration camps?

[krusher]

my post of the camps was for unriggable who said hitler accentialy ordered the extermination of every jew in the world... if Hitler was a murderer he would of raided the Zinagogs and taken their list of jewish members (every Zinaggog has a list of every jew that attends there temple) and just hunted them down and shoot em all without a trial... by the way how many jews made it out alife of the concentration camps? (more then you expect) The German saw the war was over, they saw the Allies would hold them all under war crimes and execute them so if their original plan was to kill every jew why not just go ahead with it when you see that the end is near and that your preaty much fucked?

[ignotus]

So where did 5 million of European Jews go from 1933 to 1945? Because they just vanished.

Relocation camps... Yes, they had that name. How where people threated there, and where were they re-located? On the other world perhaps?

[krusher]

ignotus that is more of the Liberal Propaganda inserted into the History books by the vitors of the war. if Hitler had won the war, the same lies and bias media would of be inserted in the history books condeming the Americans. by the way FDR put 120,000 German-Americans and Japanese-Americans into Concentration camps but funny enough they choose to rename them "relocation camps".

I'm pretty sure you mean internment camps. secondly if you look at it from a non-biased sort of way, the internment camps didn't involved working people to death in the worst living conditions possible and throwing their bodies into a furnace. finally, I believe those camps were mainly Japanese Americans.

I would not defend the internment camps but to say they are at the same level as the German concentration camps?

actually Wikipedia calls them relocation camps...

[Harijan]

ignotus that is more of the Liberal Propaganda inserted into the History books by the vitors of the war. if Hitler had won the war, the same lies and bias media would of be inserted in the history books condeming the Americans. by the way FDR put 120,000 German-Americans and Japanese-Americans into Concentration camps but funny enough they choose to rename them "relocation camps".

They were called concentration camps contemporaneously. The name didn't change until after the discovery of the German camps, and it became obvious that a distinction between the two had to be made.

The American concentration camps held Japanese-Americans and no one was intentionally killed in these camps. While there were many injustices done to Japanese-Americans in these camps (Personal property was taken away, businesses destroyed, etc.) The vast majority of the Japanese Americans were given the choice to either move to the camps or return to Japan. Very few chose to go back to Japan.

Neither side was innocent of racial discrimination in WW2, but the Germans took it a bit far.

[krusher]

the 5 million jews who are un-accounted for were results of casulties of war, Deportations to Palestine (which is how the whole Israel nation came to be) and massive migration of jews them selfs to U.S, Russia, Scandinavia, Australia, and parts of South America. not to mention the 5 million estimates are in deep debates with scholars (most suspect it was less then that)

[ignotus]

my post of the camps was for unriggable who said hitler accentialy ordered the extermination of every jew in the world... if Hitler was a murderer he would of raided the Zinagogs and taken their list of jewish members (every Zinaggog has a list of every jew that attends there temple) and just hunted them down and shoot em all without a trial... by the way how many jews made it out alife of the concentration camps? (more then you expect) The German saw the war was over, they saw the Allies would hold them all under war crimes and execute them so if their original plan was to kill every jew why not just go ahead with it when you see that the end is near and that your preaty much fucked?

would shooting-Jews-on-street have a positive or negative effect on average German citizen moral? What do you think? Because not all Germans in 1939 were nazi killers you know...
Easiest thing to do was to set them in camps where they can't contact their family abroad and give them hope: if they work hard and good they will be released (Arbeit Macht Frei)
Worst killings of the Jews were at the end of war, when American and Russian forces were getting near the Camps.

[muy_thaiguy]

ignotus that is more of the Liberal Propaganda inserted into the History books by the vitors of the war. if Hitler had won the war, the same lies and bias media would of be inserted in the history books condeming the Americans. by the way FDR put 120,000 German-Americans and Japanese-Americans into Concentration camps but funny enough they choose to rename them "relocation camps".

I'm pretty sure you mean internment camps. secondly if you look at it from a non-biased sort of way, the internment camps didn't involved working people to death in the worst living conditions possible and throwing their bodies into a furnace. finally, I believe those camps were mainly Japanese Americans.

I would not defend the internment camps but to say they are at the same level as the German concentration camps?

actually Wikipedia calls them relocation camps...

And we trust wikipedia all the time. Tell it to someone who actually sees it as a reliable source.

Okay Krusher, how do you explain the train cars full of dead people? The mass graves found around the death and concentration camps? The thousands of testimonials from the survivors?

[strike wolf]

ignotus that is more of the Liberal Propaganda inserted into the History books by the vitors of the war. if Hitler had won the war, the same lies and bias media would of be inserted in the history books condeming the Americans. by the way FDR put 120,000 German-Americans and Japanese-Americans into Concentration camps but funny enough they choose to rename them "relocation camps".

I'm pretty sure you mean internment camps. secondly if you look at it from a non-biased sort of way, the internment camps didn't involved working people to death in the worst living conditions possible and throwing their bodies into a furnace. finally, I believe those camps were mainly Japanese Americans.

I would not defend the internment camps but to say they are at the same level as the German concentration camps?

actually Wikipedia calls them relocation camps...

I wouldn't trust wikipedia there have been blatant errors. As for Relocation vs. Internment, maybe you're right, I've just always been told that they were called internment camps.

As for your theory on where the 5 million jews went. What about the jewish survivors who were in the concentration camps, who told the world what it was like in there? Notably Elie Wiesel and Primo Levi. Did they falsely make up these remarkably similar accounts for no reason? Was it all just hatred of the Germans?

[unriggable]

the 5 million jews who are un-accounted for were results of casulties of war, Deportations to Palestine (which is how the whole Israel nation came to be) and massive migration of jews them selfs to U.S, Russia, Scandinavia, Australia, and parts of South America. not to mention the 5 million estimates are in deep debates with scholars (most suspect it was less then that)

The death camps had some of the most accurate recording capabilities of their time (IBM helped em out) since computers weren't around. It adds up to roughly 6 million. Stop making up facts.

[krusher]

ignotus that is more of the Liberal Propaganda inserted into the History books by the vitors of the war. if Hitler had won the war, the same lies and bias media would of be inserted in the history books condeming the Americans. by the way FDR put 120,000 German-Americans and Japanese-Americans into Concentration camps but funny enough they choose to rename them "relocation camps".

I'm pretty sure you mean internment camps. secondly if you look at it from a non-biased sort of way, the internment camps didn't involved working people to death in the worst living conditions possible and throwing their bodies into a furnace. finally, I believe those camps were mainly Japanese Americans.

I would not defend the internment camps but to say they are at the same level as the German concentration camps?

actually Wikipedia calls them relocation camps...

I wouldn't trust wikipedia there have been blatant errors. As for Relocation vs. Internment, maybe you're right, I've just always been told that they were called internment camps.

As for your theory on where the 5 million jews went. What about the jewish survivors who were in the concentration camps, who told the world what it was like in there? Notably Elie Wiesel and Primo Levi. Did they falsely make up these remarkably similar accounts for no reason? Was it all just hatred of the Germans?

you can believe 100% that it was hatred for the germans! I'm not saying no jews died or that some Germans didn't kill jews just because of the fact that they were jews. What I'm saying is that Hitler was not a murder he didnt get to power on the intention to whipe them all out, he just wanted them out of his beloved land.... they were foreigners they filled the german press with lies. They corrupted and stole funds from the economical establishments of Germany and they were the reason for the crappy state that Germany was in during the 1930's, They had becomed so powerful that they forced the Kaiser to give up powers and surrender in WW1, and they headed the puppet Democratic government in Germany who were responsible for the great German Depression. These foreigners didn't want to become German citizens they wanted to make a quick buck out of the Father Land at the German's expenses... Hitler did what any Nationalist would do today!

[ignotus]

the 5 million jews who are un-accounted for were results of casulties of war, Deportations to Palestine (which is how the whole Israel nation came to be) and massive migration of jews them selfs to U.S, Russia, Scandinavia, Australia, and parts of South America. not to mention the 5 million estimates are in deep debates with scholars (most suspect it was less then that)

wrong!

Jews were banned by British authorities to settle in Palestine (they had a quota). Most of the Jews that formed Israel came from before 1930's and again after 1945. In 1931 there was 174,606 Jews in Palestine. In 1944. there was 554,000 of them. Again: So where did 5 million of European Jews go from 1933 to 1945? Migration to other countries wasn't an option for most Jews (at least not a good one). What happened to St. Lewis and Struma shows exactly that.

[Arbustos]

ignotus that is more of the Liberal Propaganda inserted into the History books by the vitors of the war. if Hitler had won the war, the same lies and bias media would of be inserted in the history books condeming the Americans. by the way FDR put 120,000 German-Americans and Japanese-Americans into Concentration camps but funny enough they choose to rename them "relocation camps".

I'm pretty sure you mean internment camps. secondly if you look at it from a non-biased sort of way, the internment camps didn't involved working people to death in the worst living conditions possible and throwing their bodies into a furnace. finally, I believe those camps were mainly Japanese Americans.

I would not defend the internment camps but to say they are at the same level as the German concentration camps?

actually Wikipedia calls them relocation camps...

I wouldn't trust wikipedia there have been blatant errors. As for Relocation vs. Internment, maybe you're right, I've just always been told that they were called internment camps.

As for your theory on where the 5 million jews went. What about the jewish survivors who were in the concentration camps, who told the world what it was like in there? Notably Elie Wiesel and Primo Levi. Did they falsely make up these remarkably similar accounts for no reason? Was it all just hatred of the Germans?

you can believe 100% that it was hatred for the germans! I'm not saying no jews died or that some Germans didn't kill jews just because of the fact that they were jews. What I'm saying is that Hitler was not a murder he didnt get to power on the intention to whipe them all out, he just wanted them out of his beloved land.... they were foreigners they filled the german press with lies. They corrupted and stole funds from the economical establishments of Germany and they were the reason for the crappy state that Germany was in during the 1930's, They had becomed so powerful that they forced the Kaiser to give up powers and surrender in WW1, and they headed the puppet Democratic government in Germany who were responsible for the great German Depression. These foreigners didn't want to become German citizens they wanted to make a quick buck out of the Father Land at the German's expenses... Hitler did what any Nationalist would do today!

The Kaiser's advisers told him to surrender because the situation was helpless... some of them were Jewish, yes, but that's no reason to blame them for Germany's state in the '20s and '30s. Look to the harsh terms of the Versailles Treaty for that... only 1% of the German population was Jewish anyways -- they made an easy target for Hitler's uber-nationalist stance (see: fascism). Where did this anti-semitic conspiracy theory come from?

[Guiscard]

Hitler may have been alot of things, but he was in no way evil, he didnt kill 1 single soul through his entire life (other then him self)... Hitler is shown as the Evil figure that we know today because of the liberal U.S media who won the war and determined what roll hitler would play in History, and if you were to take a History course about WW2 through the perspective of Germany you will see that Hitler wanted nothing more then a perfect world with no borders .

Xtra? Are you in there?

Holocaust Denial FTW!