Rail Europe [Quenched]

[cena-rules]

Can we get the clocks changed to the right time

[cairnswk]

Can we get the clocks changed to the right time

What do you consider to be the right times?

The clocks are based on the original LON-VEN Orient Express times, with journey variations.

And does it really matter? As long as they don't all read the same time.

[onbekende]

no clocks according to timezones?

[Wisse]

correct times:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/c ... ent=europe

[Coleman]

Add me to the list that believes it matters. I'll make a map for you of what the right times would be if you want.

[cairnswk]

Add me to the list that believes it matters. I'll make a map for you of what the right times would be if you want.

Coleman, thanks for the offer, much appreciated, but i think i can handle this, adn you already have plenty on your hands.

I was being vey flipant about "does it metter" sorry for this.

I can see that everyone wants time zones, but train timetables don't depend on time zones, they depend on departure and arriveal times.

My argument is that if the clocks are to reflect any time at all, they should reflect these departure/arrival times, which is what i have on the clocks now, not timezones.

[Coleman]

That is true... However on the USA map it was not handled that way, so I guess it depend son how consistent you want to be with this same theme.

[cairnswk]

That is true... However on the USA map it was not handled that way, so I guess it depend son how consistent you want to be with this same theme.

Mmmm agreed on your point, but i think there is enough consistency with the title, the shape of CHI and PAR, the rail lines, the station names and the XML when it comes....i am trying to work this map so that it has "it's own" european flavour.

I still stick to my point that departure/arrival times are better.

[WidowMakers]

no clocks according to timezones?

I agree with this. Time zones makes more sense visually. When I saw the current arrival/departure style all of the clocks look wrong to me because I was expecting time zones.

A clock shows the time that it currently is. A arrival/departure board show the arrival/departure time.

WM

[onbekende]

LIS-LON-BMH-EDB-GLW set to 3 o clock (already)
rest to 4 o clock
HSL-KLG-VIL-MIN-LVV-KEV-ODS-BUC-SOF-ISL-ATH set to 5 o clock
SPG-MOW set to 6 o clock

althout this may be relevant, you can make the biggest bunch 3 o clock (unchainging) and adjust accordingly

(quoted to stop someone else to spend 15 min on it)

[iancanton]

3. Italy has new line colours as does Scandanavian Rail.

scandinavian rail, with an "i" rather than an "a"? incidentally, i did a quick internet search and it only ever calls itself scan rail (though i'm unfamiliar with its historical names).

ian.

[Wisse]

3. Italy has new line colours as does Scandanavian Rail.

scandinavian rail, with an "i" rather than an "a"? incidentally, i did a quick internet search and it only ever calls itself scan rail (though i'm unfamiliar with its historical names).

ian.

i also think that looks strange

[cairnswk]

OK...I have considered the dilema posed by the clocks.

I am not in favour of making all the clocks with the same time zone on them.
If i wanted to show time zone clocks i would have done a map like onbekende posted with the standard clocks at the top of the map.

My idea was that the clocks should reflect the departure time of the service at the station.

Since this has been pointed out to me that that is the function of the arrivals and departure board, upon which we don't have space to show the times, I am now reluctant to have any clocks at all.

Therefore i will remove most of the clocks and replace them with stain glass windows.

But i am not having the clocks show the time zone times all over the map.

[cairnswk]

Version 22 Update

[cairnswk]

I picked up some feedback from other forums on this map, and some players were not happy with the Rail USA map, i think because of the lineation of the continents.

This map, while it is has plenty of lineation (territories strung together along the rail lines), there is also several continent style lines that are not linear, e.g Rail Iberia, Trenitalia, ScanRail, Ukraine Rail and British Rail.

With these "continents" I am certain this map will play very differently from Rail USA.

[oaktown]

I'm sure this has been brought up (maybe by me, I don't recall), but I'm concerned that this and the Rail USA map will open the door to more and more maps that don't have unique territory titles. As one of what I am sure are many of CC's color blind users (10% of males of european decent are color blind) I have to say that this and the Rail USA are impossible to play unless you have either 1) BOB running, or 2) the xml file pulled up next to the map.

When Fog came out and the map inspect was out of whack, placing and attacking on/from some of the chicago territories was a crap shoot. Likewise there are six of the eight Paris territories about which I'm not entirely sure which line they are attached to. The bottom two Hamburg territories look about the same to me, and I think (but I'm not sure because it doesn't make sense) that SPG has two stations that are the same color. (yep, sucks to be me)

With map inspect I can play this just fine, and I'm not saying this map should be redone or territory names added. But I am concerned that this is going to start a trend toward maps which rely entirely on color/BOB, because it puts many users at a disadvantage, a situation which previous mapmakers had tried hard to avoid.

[cairnswk]

I'm sure this has been brought up (maybe by me, I don't recall), but I'm concerned that this and the Rail USA map will open the door to more and more maps that don't have unique territory titles. As one of what I am sure are many of CC's color blind users (10% of males of european decent are color blind) I have to say that this and the Rail USA are impossible to play unless you have either 1) BOB running, or 2) the xml file pulled up next to the map.

When Fog came out and the map inspect was out of whack, placing and attacking on/from some of the chicago territories was a crap shoot. Likewise there are six of the eight Paris territories about which I'm not entirely sure which line they are attached to. The bottom two Hamburg territories look about the same to me, and I think (but I'm not sure because it doesn't make sense) that SPG has two stations that are the same color. (yep, sucks to be me)

With map inspect I can play this just fine, and I'm not saying this map should be redone or territory names added. But I am concerned that this is going to start a trend toward maps which rely entirely on color/BOB, because it puts many users at a disadvantage, a situation which previous mapmakers had tried hard to avoid.

Oaktown, i appreciuate your comments as a CB person, as you well know.

I want to find a solution for you, so let me get back to you on this.

In the meantime, can you advise exactly what you can and can't read/see on this map.

[oaktown]

In the meantime, can you advise exactly what you can and can't read/see on this map.

Hmm... always humbling when I'm asked to describe what I see. here's a glimpse at my world:

Working counter-clockwise around Paris, there's a brown(?) which I know is benelux. There's a yellow (?) which I think is from LON and carries through to LAU, but looking down at the legend I don't know which continent that is... SOX I'm guessing. The next color looks enough like the bottom color to me that i don't know which line is attaches to... either the lines to BRU or FRT, and I think the lines to FRT and LON are the same color. I have no idea which bonus either belongs to - i would have to extrapolate this using the map inspect and the continent territories list on BOB. The next two colors and the color below the brown are a wash - I can't tell them apart and I have no idea where they go. The bottom left square looks like it may have no color at all.

Again, I'm not asking for a redo... we color blind folks can play through this. But this map is particularly bad because there are no territory titles on the tracks within a station, and it relies on my brain's ability to distinguish the color of a very thin line or small dot in the legend. Give me a field of red and I'm fine... give me a thin blue line and a thin purple line and tell me to compare them to small blue and purple dots and I'm screwed.

[cairnswk]

In the meantime, can you advise exactly what you can and can't read/see on this map.

Hmm... always humbling when I'm asked to describe what I see. here's a glimpse at my world:

Working counter-clockwise around Paris, there's a brown(?) which I know is benelux. There's a yellow (?) which I think is from LON and carries through to LAU, but looking down at the legend I don't know which continent that is... SOX I'm guessing. The next color looks enough like the bottom color to me that i don't know which line is attaches to... either the lines to BRU or FRT, and I think the lines to FRT and LON are the same color. I have no idea which bonus either belongs to - i would have to extrapolate this using the map inspect and the continent territories list on BOB. The next two colors and the color below the brown are a wash - I can't tell them apart and I have no idea where they go. The bottom left square looks like it may have no color at all.

Again, I'm not asking for a redo... we color blind folks can play through this. But this map is particularly bad because there are no territory titles on the tracks within a station, and it relies on my brain's ability to distinguish the color of a very thin line or small dot in the legend. Give me a field of red and I'm fine... give me a thin blue line and a thin purple line and tell me to compare them to small blue and purple dots and I'm screwed.

Thanks Oaktown...now if i was to code the legend:

BRL(A)
BNX(B)
ICE(C)
SOX(D)
etc etc....

and then on the stations, move the army boxes right and increase the size of coloured line box and place an A, B, C, D, or whatever letter code in that cololured box, so that Athens woudl look like:
---------------------
| D | (Army box) |
|---|---------------|
| I | (Army box) |
|---|---------------|
| ATH |
---------------------

and in the XML code Athens Stations as:

ATH Athens SOX(D)
ATH Athens SOX(I)

Would that be on assistance???

[oaktown]

Thanks Oaktown...now if i was to code the legend:

BRL(A)
BNX(B)
ICE(C)
SOX(D)
etc etc....

and then on the stations, move the army boxes right and increase the size of coloured line box and place an A, B, C, D, or whatever letter code in that cololured box, so that Athens woudl look like:
_________________
| D | (Army box) |
|___|____________ |
| I | (Army box) |
|___|____________ |
| ATH |
|________________|

and in the XML code Athens Stations as:

ATH Athens SOX(D)
ATH Athens SOX(I)

Would that be on assistance???

Hmm... sometimes you have to go with form over function, and adding yet another letter of the alphabet to something that is already called "MDD MADRD RIB" seems excessive.

I imagine there is no way to sneak the three letter track code vertically down the side, either in the color box or in the army box?

R
I
B

[cairnswk]

I imagine there is no way to sneak the three letter track code vertically down the side, either in the color box or in the army box?

R
I
B

No...the three letters won't fit downwards in that side box. Well at small font size 7 they fit but one can't read that on the small map.
The only other thing to do is remove the Line Code BRX (eg) from the legend and simply have A, B, C, D, and code it that way.

[yeti_c]

I just thought I'd necro bump this thread... to see where it was going...

One thought I had was that the paris stations don't work too well for me...

With Chicago it was good because all the tracks came from different directions...

Whereas with Paris they all come from the right - except 1 from the top and 1 from the bottom...

I think a vertical solution might work better - but I'm not sure if there's enough room!

C.

[cairnswk]

I just thought I'd necro bump this thread... to see where it was going...

One thought I had was that the paris stations don't work too well for me...

With Chicago it was good because all the tracks came from different directions...

Whereas with Paris they all come from the right - except 1 from the top and 1 from the bottom...

I think a vertical solution might work better - but I'm not sure if there's enough room!

C.

I'll have a look at this yeti_c when i decided to work on this again.

[cairnswk]

This is coming off vacation...now that Waterloo is finished.

[yeti_c]

This is coming off vacation...now that Waterloo is finished.

Sweet...

C.