Code of Conduct

[jiminski]

There's a big difference between a swear word (or even several!) and abuse. Vulgarity is a personal pet peeve of mine. I believe it does little more than to make the user look profoundly stupid for not being able to express themselves in a manner accepted by society. However, I do understand that's just me. The bigger picture I'm trying to look at here is not swearing. It's abuse. Comments like my opponent's "go masturbate and think of your mother" contain no swear words. However it is a clear example of a type of abuse that is a detriment to this game.

Working against such things is not impossible for this, or any other, site. The biggest part is to let it be known that that kind of behavior is not acceptable. And then to intervene when necessary. There's a whole program centered around multis and feedback abuse. Why not add in game abuse to that as well?

CC sets a standard and then holds people to it. Simple, really.

Putting to one side this part of your original post.

Has there ever been any thought given to putting a chat filter in place that blocks the most offensive words .... ?

Naturally I understand your sentiment. I am not saying that i agree whole-heartedly but i have a fairly liberal attitude towards behaviour which does not have a direct affect upon another.
that is of course weighted by my belief that isolated words in themselves have no power, it is merely their interpretation and tone which does.
I realise this is kind of what you said but i am not convinced and i think that a sensitivity to swearwords in general has an affect upon their placement to context. This can walk hand in hand with the moral crusade.

I do find some of the abusive and childlike attacks in chat unacceptable but i think that these cases are generally dealt with pretty well by the site.

is the site too laissez faire? (xtratabasco would certainly say no) ... not in my opinion; I think freedom is more important than the cracking of the odd fragile sensibility; provided they are not shattered then the system is ok by me.

The paradox of this sentiment is that i attempt to be courteous and gentlemanly where possible, upholding these principles as sacrosanct.

[wacicha]

I do not think every one would be banned there is a few us us who do not get to abusive

[yorkiepeter]

Personally, if there was a code of conduct, then I would buy premium for my kids.....but for now, no chance......I wouldn't want my 12 year old son accused of fucking his mother.

[RiskTycoon]

mmmm Psilocybe mexicana yummy lol

[jiminski]

Personally, if there was a code of conduct, then I would buy premium for my kids.....but for now, no chance......I wouldn't want my 12 year old son accused of fucking his mother.

hehe point taken Peter.. but where does a 'language filter' or further limitation on behaviour start and finish?

We already have a code of conduct with punitive action taken for racism, and some other ism's but do we go as far as not being able to quote someone in the forums who was abusive, as you have?... can we not curse at all etc etc.
'No that's silly' you may say but if not impose limits across the board, your kids would be exposed to abusive language in the forums anyway.
ok hopefully not directly but certainly exposed.

I think another fairly key point is that most of the worst abuse actually comes from kids not much older than 12 anyway. Far from being passengers in such tirades they are often the naive pilots.

The difference is that we all get to witness the language used in the school playground, not influence it.

[RobinJ]

This really is a tricky one...

Personally, I would curse quite often in game chat, but I am never abusive unless someone provokes me (in which case all hell breaks loose!). For example, if I've rather badly fucked up an elimination, or just had the dice screw me, I may often vent my feelings by posting "shit" or "f*ck" or whatever in the game chat.

So, does this mean that I would get in trouble for using language that, I admit, is not terribly nice, especially if younger kids were reading? Since I believe there is little harm in such language as long as it isn't directed at an opponent in malice, then I see no problem there.

Also, there are some people who, when playing with familiars or friends, like to dish out some friendly abuse. Take for example Flame Wars. Those guys post some shocking stuff but it is really just a show... there are only the odd assholes who actually mean that sort of stuff. Therefore, if this friendly abuse were to occur in a game, would it constitute as a bannable offence?

So, in short, some sort of ban or language filter would be very hard to moderate because it could be so easily taken out of context. True, there are some people who really should be punished for some particularly obscene rants but for that there is the Cheating and Abuse forum. With this, the ignore list and the feedback system combined, I think a decent compromise has been reached. It may not be entirely efficient, and could probably be tweaked for the better, but I believe it is sufficient. You really just have to learn to ignore the extreme abuse and see the people for what they really are: losers

[Firecrest]

First, thanks to those of you who have come up with well thought out replies. Discussion on this topic is good.

Second, and I've said it before, I think that vulgarity is the product of a weak mind. It does offend me to some degree and I'd much rather not see it at all. That said, it's not something I'm fanatical about. I'm not going to get all uppity about it and I've never once in my life chided a person specifically for it. My mental evaluation of that person is just lowered somewhat and I go on about my business. I believe many of the worse words should be blocked from use on this site, but it's not something I'm going to break my back for or threaten to leave over or anything.

The thing that does overtly concern me is when someone crosses that line into abuse. My quoted posts of the dealings I've had with this guy are very good examples, I think, of 'over the line' behavior. This kind of stuff has absolutely no redeeming value and is a hindrance to the game.

So, in short, some sort of ban or language filter would be very hard to moderate because it could be so easily taken out of context.

I believe this sentiment (expressed by several here - I'm not picking on just you, RobinJ ) to be profoundly false. There are so many games out there that enforce reasonable Codes of Conduct that it would not be possible to list them all. And certainly the biggest have learned that it is in their best interest to provide a pleasant gaming atmosphere for their clients.

Just to name a few that I dabble in - Guild Wars, WoW, Magic Online all have Codes of Conduct that users are forced to adhere to in order to play. When you install, and periodically as you play, you are asked to agree to their standards in order to continue. Enforcement comes in varying degrees. Magic Online is the most strict of those that I play (mostly due to their desire to keep their T for Teen rating). Here a filter is in place that even goes so far as to filter out 'ass' and 'damn' and circumvention of the filter ("@ss" for "ass" or some such) gets you in trouble. There are escalating degrees of punishment from simple warnings to mutes, temporary bans and, for chronic rule breakers, account termination. Guild Wars and WoW both have chat filters that can be turned on or off at will - however player harassment is strictly disallowed and promptly dealt with.

All of these rely mostly on player reports for detection of violations. I do not see such to be outside of CC's scope. I'd like to see a chat filter that can be turned off or on and a system (not unlike the multi-reporting set up now) for players to report others who they think have crossed the line. CC would have to draw up a standard Code of Conduct and then enforce it with mutes, temp bans and account terminations as needed.

There's a reason why all the big guys already do this. It's because it protects the company and creates an environment that will draw in the most customers.

[jiminski]

personally .. although i do like traditional Tea rooms and I thoroughly enjoy a nice pot of Earl Grey accompanied by a scone.. Given a permanent ultimatum i would chose a vibrant pub with all it's vices and limitations.

this place has many problems and some silly and offensive people who i see very little point to and who contribute little directly. How these extremists do contribute is by galvanising the majority into coming out against them. In the arena of public opinion the truth should always come out.

Without the sinner how can the Pious man judge himself.

Indeed without witnessing those with the most abhorrent views and behaviour all we end up with is a sterilized and stagnant pool of mediocrity, which bears no resemblance to the reality.
Worse than this, without vent: bias, prejudice and in a secular sense; evil, festers in a small way in all of us. We only exorcise that little piece of endemic evil by viewing it in it's most exaggerated form!

Yes that's all empty rhetoric too and it is an exaggeration, nay 'extreme' version of my belief.
there must be balance! Racism, for example, needs arbitration but i honestly feel that this site gets it just about right.
perhaps it needs a touch of fine tuning but not much!

please keep the filters out, please allow people to do their own policing ... afterall this kind of medium is one of the only places in which people can truly express a part of themselves without unnecessary inhibition.
This is a safe place where use of language does only have a cerebral impact .. when someone says they are going to 'f*ck your mother' or 'shit in eye' they really have no way of doing it! It is a statement purely born out of fiction, it has no tangible basis and should create only an ephemeral resonance.

[jiminski]

hehe it does appear we have a filter of sorts here already.

[lackattack]

All of these rely mostly on player reports for detection of violations. I do not see such to be outside of CC's scope. I'd like to see a chat filter that can be turned off or on and a system (not unlike the multi-reporting set up now) for players to report others who they think have crossed the line. CC would have to draw up a standard Code of Conduct and then enforce it with mutes, temp bans and account terminations as needed.

While you haven't convinced me to go down this road, Firecrest, I have to admit you put forward some good arguement that got me thinking

Our multi and feedback programs are a huge burden, and I just don't have the appetite to start another one that would be demanding on our staff and volunteers. I much prefer ground-up solutions like the ignore list and feedback that empower the community to police itself.

[Firecrest]

While you haven't convinced me to go down this road, Firecrest, I have to admit you put forward some good arguement that got me thinking

I do try.

CC is still small and relatively new. As it grows, I'm sure you'll want to put these processes in place. But I can totally understand how that could be difficult with the resources currently at your disposal.

One day... When CC is huge...

[zeroster]

I'll tell you what dives me crazy. Seeing the "u" in f*ck being replaced by an asterisk. It's a totally pointless exercise. We still know what it means and we all still pronounce the word the same when we read it, with or without the "u".

Or is it the vowel itself that's offensive?

It's a ridiculous convention that I really wish people would stop using.

Ok rant over.