We need more people like this:

[Guiscard]

True to form, Guiscard used the first opportunity he could to throw out a spiteful remark about the Christian faith.

It was a j-o-k-e...

Remember them?

It was what internet posts contained before the days of the Atheist War On Christianity...

(that was again a joke...)

[OnlyAmbrose]

True to form, Guiscard used the first opportunity he could to throw out a spiteful remark about the Christian faith.

It was a j-o-k-e...

Remember them?

It was what internet posts contained before the days of the Atheist War On Christianity...

(that was again a joke...)

Honestly luns, I think you're taking everything a bit too seriously right now. There's a reason it's called the Funny Farm

As to Guis, Bertros, etc... I'd appreciate it if you'd all just lay off just for awhile. This topic had nothing to do with religion to begin with anyways

[Blastshot]

True to form, Guiscard used the first opportunity he could to throw out a spiteful remark about the Christian faith.

It was a j-o-k-e...

Remember them?

It was what internet posts contained before the days of the Atheist War On Christianity...

(that was again a joke...)

Honestly luns, I think you're taking everything a bit too seriously right now. There's a reason it's called the Funny Farm

As to Guis, Bertros, etc... I'd appreciate it if you'd all just lay off just for awhile. This topic had nothing to do with religion to begin with anyways

finally a mature person!

[Riao]

You & others here have chastised him for that, using the "rationale" of a gun-toting society as the blame for this incident. That's just a lame attempt to show your disdain for the U.S.

I won't say one way or the other if the ex-marine did the right thing by shooting to kill. It's a moral argument and no one is going to be swayed from their beliefs by looking at posts in an online forum. Moreover, I don't know if it was the right thing to do. However I have to take exception with the above quote. This is not just an attempt to show disdain for the US. The truth is really simple: If guns weren't so available there, this situation would never have happened in the first place. And the moral question would not have to be answered at all.

[Neutrino]

I can't believe anyone is seriously contemplating handing out guns and a permit to use them to the general population. Do you know how high casualties will go? Every single murderer or thug who were going to use escapable weapons like knives or clubs are suddenly packing. Civilians will kill themselves by the score from accidental suicide (if a trained Australian soldier can do it, they certainly can).
Hell, generally destributing guns will worsen the very problem it was designed to solve. Most robberies end with no bloodshead, because one side has a huge advantage and the other side knows that and dosen't resist. But now both sides will have weapons. What would have been a normal convienience store robbery suddenly turns into bloodbath as an untrained civilian tries to shoot the robbers. The robbers will soon learn that there is now a slight, but apreciable chance of them being seriously hurt or killed, now that everyone is armed. They wills top demanding and start shooting. If you were a criminal, would you demand money off people you know to be armed, or just simply burst in and shoot them, saving you really any chance of injury?
A much better solution would be to train everyone in defensive martial arts techiques, spcifically those concerning disarming an opponent, but even this would have the problem that the criminals would shoot first and demand later.

This is why your idea of a gun-topia would never work.

No one here has advocated armed escorts for everyone. The point is this man stood up to thugs and protected the innocent. Period.

But that's what will happen. The elderly or children probably can't carry guns, much less fire them with any accuracy. How do you expect them to defend themselves when extremely heavily armed assailants come up?

You & others here have chastised him for that, using the "rationale" of a gun-toting society as the blame for this incident. That's just a lame attempt to show your disdain for the U.S.

Well if guns wern't so easily accessable then they probably wouldn't have been able to get guns in the first place...

The police were not there to save the day for the people in this Subway Restaurant. Thank God an ex-marine was.

Ex-Marine. Precisely. Just say he was some pimply teenager who had just got his first gun. What would have happened then? Massive civilian casualties, you betcha...

[Riao]

Just say he was some tenager who had just got his first gun. What would have happened then? Massive civilian casualties, you betcha...

Good point.

[reverend_kyle]

What if someone had been throwing rocks at this same ex military man..


4 dead in ohio?

[Nobunaga]

... Libertarian-ish conservative here (as some might have pieced together by now)...

... Guns, guns, guns... I love guns. I have 4 guns, 2 pistols, a rifle and a shot gun. I think that is probably about 4 more guns than the average American has, but a lot less than some. ...

... Now, I've been away from the US for a decade, living in a country where the murders that take place in the span of a year can be counted with 2 digits... and that's the entire country.

... So... Yeah, I love guns and believe Americans have the right to own them for their own protection. However... if ever it came to pass that ENFORCEABLE laws came down the pipe severely restricting gun ownership (not banning), I would not be the least bit upset by this (not a TRUE Libertarian, I guess).

... The problem is enforcing such laws to keep them out of the hands of thugs and criminals. When all the law-abiding good people turn in their guns... the only folks still packing will be the robbers, rapists and killers.

... I had a gun in my car when I was a teenager. I cannot explain why. It wasn't so much that I felt cool with a gun, or that I was so scared I felt I needed one. I just liked having it (that's a crime, btw). Looking back, that scares the hell out of me now. What was I thinking??!! I think of all the things that could have gone wrong... and I think of all the kids who must be out there today, driving around... with 9mm Baretta ripoffs under the seat...

...

[Riao]

... The problem is enforcing such laws to keep them out of the hands of thugs and criminals. When all the law-abiding good people turn in their guns... the only folks still packing will be the robbers, rapists and killers.

At this point, yeah, I'd have to agree. But consider what the situation would be if stricter laws were put in place say, 100 years ago. The saturation of guns in the country wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is now, and it would be that much more difficult to get one, legally or otherwise because the availability wouldn't be there.

[brekus]

Back to the original topic...

A human life is more important than any amount of money, as far as I am aware the old guy, no I wont try and find his name, was not asaulted they only tried to rob him (yes there is a difference) give me your wallet as opossed to I'm gonna stab you (not that they usually SAY that) Murder is murder and no I dont think 70 year olds should carry around guns, just like 11 year olds shouldnt.

Damnit that was one sentence, commas have ruined me.

[Nobunaga]

... The problem is enforcing such laws to keep them out of the hands of thugs and criminals. When all the law-abiding good people turn in their guns... the only folks still packing will be the robbers, rapists and killers.

At this point, yeah, I'd have to agree. But consider what the situation would be if stricter laws were put in place say, 100 years ago. The saturation of guns in the country wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is now, and it would be that much more difficult to get one, legally or otherwise because the availability wouldn't be there.

... Wholeheartedly agree. But hindsight is, as they say, 20/20.

...

[Guiscard]

... The problem is enforcing such laws to keep them out of the hands of thugs and criminals. When all the law-abiding good people turn in their guns... the only folks still packing will be the robbers, rapists and killers.

At this point, yeah, I'd have to agree. But consider what the situation would be if stricter laws were put in place say, 100 years ago. The saturation of guns in the country wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is now, and it would be that much more difficult to get one, legally or otherwise because the availability wouldn't be there.

This is good to see. A lot of the time when debating firearms restrictions against more conservative people you hit the barrier of 'we have the right to bear arms and if we gave ours up the criminals wouldn't' without them even considering the case in theory, stepping back from your currently gun-saturated society. It is much easier to see from the perspective of a country who has strict gun control and has done for a long time. In reality, I think that gun control among the law abiding public would lead to a reduction in criminal gun ownership, but I can't back that up with studies or the like.

[Nobunaga]

... Perhaps we can all learn kung-fu!

...

[MeDeFe]

Kung-Fu looks much cooler than guns anyway.

[luns101]

True to form, Guiscard used the first opportunity he could to throw out a spiteful remark about the Christian faith.

It was a j-o-k-e...

Remember them?

It was what internet posts contained before the days of the Atheist War On Christianity...

(that was again a joke...)

It's hard to recognize through the swamp of condescension you put out.

[Stopper]

Everybody Kung Fu fighting? That would be a little bit frightening.

[Bertros Bertros]

True to form, Guiscard used the first opportunity he could to throw out a spiteful remark about the Christian faith.

It was a j-o-k-e...

Remember them?

It was what internet posts contained before the days of the Atheist War On Christianity...

(that was again a joke...)

It's hard to recognize through the swamp of condescension you put out.

This is pathetic! It was really very obvious from Guiscard's post he was joking, I actually thought luns was being tongue in cheek with the "spiteful remark" post... I was obviously wrong... and I thought you were taking a "well earned break" anyway?

I'm tired of this "stop picking on us Christians" bullshit, its starting to wear thin. If you don't want to hear it then stop posting Christian arguments in every thread; you set yourselves up for it (I have never brought religion into any discussion on these forums) making posts you know will get a response (Jay is perhaps the person who likes doing this the most) and then whine about Christian bashing when people disagree. Well I've had just about enough of being bashed by the US Christian Brigade for not believing.

[Riao]

To be fair I think that, this time anyway, it was I that first brought Christianity into the argument.

[luns101]

I'm tired of this "stop picking on us Christians" bullshit, its starting to wear thin. If you don't want to hear it then stop posting Christian arguments in every thread; you set yourselves up for it

If you'll look back, Bertros. I didn't bring the Christian argument into it. It was Stopper. I was simply expressing my opinion. It is the people on your side of the argument that brought that element into the conversation. Look for yourself..

What I find really striking, and I'm not saying this simply to try and get a cheap shot in at Christians, is OnlyAmbrose's and luns101's attitude towards this. I can accept that a practicing Christian might say killing in the way of self-defence could be acceptable, but neither of you has even expressed the slightest bit of regret that a human being - one presumably capable of being "saved" - got killed in this incident.

I simply put my opinion out there concerning the story. I told him I wasn't asking for his endorsement or approval. When you wished to engage in a debate about it, I said no thanks. I'm going to continue to post my thoughts in many threads, despite your disapproval.

[Bertros Bertros]

I'm tired of this "stop picking on us Christians" bullshit, its starting to wear thin. If you don't want to hear it then stop posting Christian arguments in every thread; you set yourselves up for it

If you'll look back, Bertros. I didn't bring the Christian argument into it. It was Stopper. I was simply expressing my opinion. It is the people on your side of the argument that brought that element into the conversation. Look for yourself..

What I find really striking, and I'm not saying this simply to try and get a cheap shot in at Christians, is OnlyAmbrose's and luns101's attitude towards this. I can accept that a practicing Christian might say killing in the way of self-defence could be acceptable, but neither of you has even expressed the slightest bit of regret that a human being - one presumably capable of being "saved" - got killed in this incident.

I simply put my opinion out there concerning the story. When you wished to engage in a debate about it, I said no thanks. I'm going to continue to post my thoughts in many threads, despite your disapproval.

My disapproval? When did I ever suggest I disapproved of your posting your thoughts? I actively encourage it. I'm interested in what anyone has to say but if I disagree I'll speak up.

I'm not in a side in any discussion but my own. I agree with some things and not with others but there are very few people I can find no common ground with including you.

[luns101]

I'm not in a side in any discussion but my own. I agree with some things and not with others but there are very few people I can find no common ground with including you.

OK

[CrazyAnglican]

Everybody Kung Fu fighting? That would be a little bit frightening.

Man, they'd be fast as lightning.


Killing me softly with Kung Fu. Knocking my head off ... with his shoe. Killing me softly.....with Kung Fu.

But seriously, I'm ambivalent about gun control. It isn't the psycho on a subway that would scare as much as the soldier in my hometown if the government went down that road. The right to keep and bear arms is there to protect us from governmental abuse not as much from each other.

This comes from a black belt who has been robbed at gun point. I gave them my wallet and walked away. I'm not particularly ashamed about it; I think it was the right choice.

[Riao]

This comes from a black belt who has been robbed at gun point. I gave them my wallet and walked away. I'm not particularly ashamed about it; I think it was the right choice.

I wouldn't be ashamed of this at all. IMO it was definitely the right choice. A bullet travels faster than anyone's kick.

[s.xkitten]

meh...

in answer to the title... NO WE DON'T...

that is all...we will now return you to your feature presentation...