The Wild Beyond the Walls Mafia Spirits Wins!

[swang918]

I must say, I am now also very confused.

Is there maybe some kind of role of power that can give Kingm a false identity when visited? I am leaning towards Swang's theory that someone might mess with Kingm's tracking or identity. But then I ask myself the question again, why Kingm on N1?

Its more likely that whoever messed with kingm’s tracking had targeted votanic, not kingm

[swang918]

However pmc i think theres too many people saying they have no idea, for everyone to be playing dumb. This is probably genuinely confusing. Im going to try to do a summary of what happened so far and what the issues are, and hopefully get everyone on the same page

[Ewebasher]

Say you are the mafia framer, you pick someone to target and if they are investigated they show up as mafia, even if they aren't. So for king to be telling the truth, the mafia framer framed vot night 1. Since kingm tracked vot, he seen him visit the guilty party to make him look like he went there. Like planting evidence.

Not sure I've seen it with tracker before but not impossible given some of the other roles in the game.

I feel like there are a lot of people jumping on the "I have no idea what's happening " bandwagon to avoid saying anything meaningful/appear like a clueless towny.

Would the framer 'act' every night (potentially on different targets each night)?

[Ewebasher]

And can their power work both ways? I.e. could they make scum look like town as well as town look like scum?

[DirtyDishSoap]

Just gonna add this here so we can all try and stay on the page.

Framer -
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Framer

TL;DR - Framer makes flip scum upon investigation. This doesn't affect our Tracker, who can only see what his target visits. I made this mistake earlier. Framer isn't possible in this scenario.

Bus Driver -
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bus_Driver

TL;DR - Swaps targets. A visits B and X visits Y. Instead, if you choose A and X as your targets, it now becomes X visits B and A visits Y. This is plausible. But given that Vot lied about his role, he more than likely lied about visiting LC.

Role Blocker
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Roleblocker

TL;DR - Honestly, the role is self explanatory. Prevents a night action. It doesnt stop the visit however. Hence, King saw it.

We all on the same page now?

[swang918]

and here is a summary of events so far.

N1 Loose poisoned sonic, and someone killed loose.

On day 2, Kingm claimed tracker, which means he had the ability to see who his investigative target visited, if any. Kingm says he chose to investigate Votanic on N1, and says he saw votanic visiting Loose.

So, this is pretty damning against votanic, because we know someone visited loose and killed him, so if votanic visited loose then vot is likely the killer.

So we lynched votanic D2, basically on Kingm's testimony. It happened a bit too fast for my liking but I don't think it was a terrible lynch with the info we had at the time. Vot was adamant he didn't visit loose, but that wasn't convincing.

However, after the lynch, votanic flipped town. Which was unexpected.

So now we think, either Kingm was lying and successfully drove a mislynch on vot, or kingm was telling the truth as he saw it, and there is a scum power role that messed with Kingm's tracking to give him wrong investigative results. basically framing votanic.

At this point we're trying to basically figure out which scenario it is, and brainstorm what exact power role a scum might have.


anyway so that is the summary as I see it. sonic and traf deaths are more self explanatory and less mysterious.

devante, ewe, charle, whoever else--let me know if this helps.

[pmchugh]

However pmc i think theres too many people saying they have no idea, for everyone to be playing dumb. This is probably genuinely confusing. Im going to try to do a summary of what happened so far and what the issues are, and hopefully get everyone on the same page

Yeah I think there are some genuinely confused townies, and some people might be playing into it because its easy.

Some are like, "townslip", level, where only a real townie could ever post it, unless deliberately set up to look that way. For instance dev listed traf as likely town but still not cleared in his reread, after he had already been killed. Mafia would know they chose to kill traf so wouldn't include them. Which means either dev was paying zero attention to what was going on in mafia chat or he is town, or he is being very clever and deliberately pretending not to realise traf is dead (assumes traf was killed by mafia and not vigilante).

I am inclined to believe its a genuine townie mistake in this instance.

[Charle]

Just gonna add this here so we can all try and stay on the page.

Framer -
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Framer

TL;DR - Framer makes flip scum upon investigation. This doesn't affect our Tracker, who can only see what his target visits. I made this mistake earlier. Framer isn't possible in this scenario.

Bus Driver -
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bus_Driver

TL;DR - Swaps targets. A visits B and X visits Y. Instead, if you choose A and X as your targets, it now becomes X visits B and A visits Y. This is plausible. But given that Vot lied about his role, he more than likely lied about visiting LC.

Role Blocker
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Roleblocker

TL;DR - Honestly, the role is self explanatory. Prevents a night action. It doesnt stop the visit however. Hence, King saw it.

We all on the same page now?

Thanks very much DDS, this really helps a lot. Still wondering why Vot lied about his role, the above could have been worked out before we lynched him, really a pitty, but as you said, this is how it goes.

[pmchugh]

Just gonna add this here so we can all try and stay on the page.

Framer -
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Framer

TL;DR - Framer makes flip scum upon investigation. This doesn't affect our Tracker, who can only see what his target visits. I made this mistake earlier. Framer isn't possible in this scenario.

Bus Driver -
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bus_Driver

TL;DR - Swaps targets. A visits B and X visits Y. Instead, if you choose A and X as your targets, it now becomes X visits B and A visits Y. This is plausible. But given that Vot lied about his role, he more than likely lied about visiting LC.

Role Blocker
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Roleblocker

TL;DR - Honestly, the role is self explanatory. Prevents a night action. It doesnt stop the visit however. Hence, King saw it.

We all on the same page now?

Thanks very much DDS, this really helps a lot. Still wondering why Vot lied about his role, the above could have been worked out before we lynched him, really a pitty, but as you said, this is how it goes.

Framer could still work, just for tracker in this specific game. I think you can already see some innovation from strike in the roles he has made.

Busdriver is certainly possible and throws all sorts of things into doubt, like, say vot was bussed night 1 with the mafia killer then a cop who investigated the killer would get a false innocent result. We also don't know who was bussed night 2.

[pmchugh]

Forgot to say, vot visited someone, but clearly not Loose. He lied because he viewed his role as very important, I think this was a tactical mistake but probably didn't matter as we were going to kill him anyway.

It's possible mafia were scared Loose would be protected by a doctor, so they switched him via busriver with someone unlikely to be killed, but then that would mean that vot actually visited someone unlikely to be killed, which seems rather wimpy for a bullet proof bodyguard. Wish he had claimed who he really visited.

[swang918]

I still dont see why vot would protect anyone on N1. Unless we assume that he is required to choose a protection target each night.

[DirtyDishSoap]

To explain Traf's role, he would set a snare around one person each night and the first one to visit the one he set traps around that night would get caught in the snare and fail to finish their action.

I looked back at this and I want to say that Vot stepped on the snare. He was role blocked more or less. It's the only explanation currently.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I still dont see why vot would protect anyone on N1. Unless we assume that he is required to choose a protection target each night.

I don't believe he was required. He may have just thought that LC was going to get targeted.

Why he chose to tell us he was a vanilla townie defies all logic though.

Enough speculating though, we really need to start putting pressure on people. Folks seem to think Pixar or Ewe. Sell me the dream.

[strike wolf]

Reminder: Deadline is End of Day Saturday

[swang918]

I say pixar. A couple people wanted to take vot’s lynch slower, pix came in with the hammer and ended the day.

Vote Pixar

[DirtyDishSoap]

Doesn't seem to be anything else going on. Dead as a doorknob up in here.
Vote Pixar to get things rolling.

[fusibaseball]

Vote Pixar. It's some combination of Ewe, Charle, Pix, and maybe Dev I'm pretty sure.

[pmchugh]

OK, now we are talking. Would like to hear from pix about the hammer vote and also who he thinks the wolves might be.

Also ewe don't wait until we move on from pixar , if the chat here is as dead as it has been then you will be next, you must start giving us suspects or even town reads, just let us see your thinking so we can judge whether you seem genuine.

[Ewebasher]

pmchugh, I can absolutely guarantee my confusion is real

useful summary from swang (certainly potentially explains some things, unless of course swang is scum in which case he could potentially be trying to leave a false trail)

Personally I'm inclined to believe kingm (in that he did get a 'guilty' report back on Vot) as I do think there must be a Framer/Blocker role at play (on first read through I'd missed the bit about king getting no result on SoN)

So kingm & me = town is the only thing I'm reasonably sure about...

As for the rest of you...

pmc I'm most suss of you as you have been pushing for lynchs despite having very little (if anything) to go on... that feels like a bit of a scum move as scum are the only ones sure who is town and who is scum

no real read from anyone else I must confess (but that's maybe just because I'm rubbish at reading between the lines - last game I was scum so that made it easier for me)

[*Pixar*]

My hammer vote is solely based on I thought if VOT came to be townie that we would know that King was wolf. Now that there's a possibility of a framer that I didn't think about, I'm lost lol. There're a few players I haven't played with in mafia yet so hard to get a read, only people I could sorta see come back scum is devante (Mostly for his quietness but could be RL like he said), or Fusi because of SoN!c's joke vote a Fusi earlier in the game, and then eventually said I was cleared from being scum but reread storyline and took that back and then let nature take its course on the jump on Vot. So, if I had to vote anyone today, I would go after Fusi.

[strike wolf]

Vote Count

Pixar (3)-Swang, DDS, Fusi
Swang
DDS
Fusi
PMC
Devante
Charle
Ewebasher
Kingm

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Pix is at L-2.

Deadline End of Day tomorrow.

[swang918]

Need to be careful here. Next vote may potentially “hammer” because sonic may still have a vote

[Kingm]

Need to be careful here. Next vote may potentially “hammer” because sonic may still have a vote

I don't think we will see a hammer from Sonic, if he is able to vote, because why would he want to kill one of their own?

I'm far from sure, but it's the best we have I think.
Vote Pixar

[*Pixar*]

My name is Kim William's , just a vanilla townie. I grew up in a forest like others in the village, my life has been pretty mundane. That's all I got for you, Go Town!

[Devante]

Alright I'm still fairly confused so let me just go over this to make sure I understand:

Just gonna add this here so we can all try and stay on the page.

Framer -
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Framer

TL;DR - Framer makes flip scum upon investigation. This doesn't affect our Tracker, who can only see what his target visits. I made this mistake earlier. Framer isn't possible in this scenario.

Bus Driver -
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bus_Driver

TL;DR - Swaps targets. A visits B and X visits Y. Instead, if you choose A and X as your targets, it now becomes X visits B and A visits Y. This is plausible. But given that Vot lied about his role, he more than likely lied about visiting LC.

Role Blocker
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Roleblocker

TL;DR - Honestly, the role is self explanatory. Prevents a night action. It doesnt stop the visit however. Hence, King saw it.

We all on the same page now?

ok so based on this then only bus driver is possibly at play. Which would explain why King viewed incorrectly and Vot got targeted incorrectly, do I have that correct?

If I do, I guess I still don't understand how King is cleared. In the wolf game when I claimed LC as white wolf I was proven town when he flipped so. But here we had King flip Vot as scum which turned out to be wrong. Not trying to get a wagon going on King but why are we looking at things differently. Is it simply because the roles exist in mafia so may be at play or am I missing some context from chat that easily explains this?

Secondly

Personally I'm inclined to believe kingm (in that he did get a 'guilty' report back on Vot) as I do think there must be a Framer/Blocker role at play (on first read through I'd missed the bit about king getting no result on SoN)

I also don't understand the no result on Son. Is this because he might have been possessed after or is it because of this other role we think is in play picking the exact right players each time?

As for voting Pix i'm all for it as he always reads scum to me and no different here so far. The last minute vote on Vot causing the lynch cements it for me. But i'll reserve my vote since now I see King has brought him to the point of lynch with one more vote after swang advising against further votes

Need to be careful here. Next vote may potentially “hammer” because sonic may still have a vote

If some one can clarify the above before I vote that would be a help