The Thing TOWN WINS!

[strike wolf]

Honestly, if not for the lack of scene evidence like there was with Charle, Dega to me is the one of you 3 who seems the most likely to be the recruit based on actions. I think it's safe to say that if Dega is the recruit then the ability does not get passed on because recruit.Dega would not be pushing as hard against a Vot lynch if the power merely transferred to him. Please, no one hammer No Lynch. I have to think this over.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Honestly, if not for the lack of scene evidence like there was with Charle, Dega to me is the one of you 3 who seems the most likely to be the recruit based on actions. I think it's safe to say that if Dega is the recruit then the ability does not get passed on because recruit.Dega would not be pushing as hard against a Vot lynch if the power merely transferred to him. Please, no one hammer No Lynch. I have to think this over.

This he is either still vig and flames Vot we win. Or he is converted we don't lynch and lose.

There was no scene, but what guarantees that there were gonna be the same scene if vig gets converted. maybe the FT can only be passed once. After that no need to mention it again.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

BTW strike, i'm willing to lynch vot despite Deg warning.

[degaston]

My argument against that is that Vot would not have known that, and it would be risky to try. I know I'm pushing hard for this. It's because from my perspective I know this will work, because I know I'm still the vig.

To me, anything else is about a 50/50 chance of failure.

[strike wolf]

Dega: Pushing plans that would involve not lynching Vot but latest one is reasonably solid *if* hes not the recruit. No scene evidence for recruitment unlike Charle.

Ragian: hes European, possible member of the Norwegian team the Thing first recruited I think so! And what's this? Claiming to be in the UK? Didn't we already establish him as a Dane? So close to Norway... In all seriousness, he seems level headed so far. He did proclaim me 100% pro town hero today and could just be trying butter me up.

Traf-Very vocal today. Sensing end game? Pressure to find a way out after being recruited yesterday? I would think Vot to be more likely to recruit Traf or Dega than Ragian since Ragian would stand out the most if he suddenly started siding with Vot.

@DDS: if the flamethrower has limited transfers would you have given that info to Vot if he asked about it?

[Ragian]

Anyway as Rag said. if you vig me I'm gonna win as town, so not really gonna try hard here.

This applies to either you or Ragian (whichever one is town).
If I vig the wrong one, and the other becomes the recruiter because we lynched Vot, then town loses.
I just posted how we can avoid that.

Vote No-Lynch

I will probably vig you if you vote to lynch Vot, otherwise I'll vig Rag if Vot gets lynched.

I can't believe this. You've just scolded Traf for not following you and now you jump ship yourself.

It's Vot (and it reeks of Dega, too). And yes, if you vig me, I win as town. Can you still vig? Have you been recruited?

[Ragian]

But as far as I'm concerned: I'm lynching Strike if positive and Vot if negative. Quite simple for me.

NO! Bad Traf!

If it's positive, then it's because Strike wanted you to lynch him so that I can't vig him, and his recruit will get a chance to recruit someone else.

If it's negative and you lynch Vot, then it's because YOU are the recruit, and you want the chance to recruit someone else.

Just reread this. I don't think you were as off from your initial point as I made it out to be. Stupid memory. But hey, the no lynch still hinges on you being able to flame and now with the added point of not killing off whom we know is the recruiter, right?

[degaston]

Just reread this. I don't think you were as off from your initial point as I made it out to be. Stupid memory. But hey, the no lynch still hinges on you being able to flame and now with the added point of not killing off whom we know is the recruiter, right?

Right.

I know lynching Vot is the obvious choice for the remaining town players. If we do, then I have to vig either you or Traf. If I get it wrong, and the recruited becomes the recruiter, then town loses. If I get it right, or the recruitment ability does not transfer, then we still win.

I'd like to avoid the possibility that we lose, so I'm pushing the no-lynch instead. Personally, I know it will work. It's not about a read or intuition - DDS has confirmed that if I vig the recruiter, then the recruitment will fail. But I can't prove to anyone else that I haven't been recruited

Worst case if I fail in convincing the townies is that we're back to option 1, and I have to make a choice of whom to vig. But I have nothing to lose by trying to convince you.

If you knew you were the vig, what would you do? How would you convince the town players to go along with you?

[Ragian]

So... You're town... You'll win regardless of us lynching Vot or not. What's with the altruism?

[degaston]

So... You're town... You'll win regardless of us lynching Vot or not. What's with the altruism?

If we lynch Vot, and if the recruiting power transfers, then if I choose the wrong player to vig then town will lose, and me along with them, unless I'm the one that is recruited tonight.

So it's not altruism, it's trying to eliminate any possibility that I lose.

[degaston]

After thinking about it some more, I think it's almost certain that the recruiting power transfers if the leader dies.
With cults, there are 3 options when the leader dies:
1. All recruited die.
2. The game continues, but no more recruiting.
3. One of the recruited becomes the new leader.

Option 1 would make no sense - town would win immediately on any night they kill the leader.
Option 2 doesn't make much sense either because town has the BT and the only ability to kill. Once the leader was dead, town could just BT and lynch or no-lynch depending on the result, so the game is still effectively over once the leader dies.

Therefore, I conclude that the recruiting power does transfer.
But as DDS confirmed, if the leader is vigged, the recruit fails, so cult would lose it's recruitment for that night, but a new leader would take over the next night.

If I had been recruited then I would be perfectly happy to have Vot lynched, knowing that I would have the recruitment power tonight, and would win with scum.
Therefore, I can't have been the recruit, and I am telling the truth about what we need to do.

Do you see any flaws in this logic?

[TrafalgarLaw01]

After thinking about it some more, I think it's almost certain that the recruiting power transfers if the leader dies.
With cults, there are 3 options when the leader dies:
1. All recruited die.
2. The game continues, but no more recruiting.
3. One of the recruited becomes the new leader.

Option 1 would make no sense - town would win immediately on any night they kill the leader.
Option 2 doesn't make much sense either because town has the BT and the only ability to kill. Once the leader was dead, town could just BT and lynch or no-lynch depending on the result, so the game is still effectively over once the leader dies.

Therefore, I conclude that the recruiting power does transfer.
But as DDS confirmed, if the leader is vigged, the recruit fails, so cult would lose it's recruitment for that night, but a new leader would take over the next night.

If I had been recruited then I would be perfectly happy to have Vot lynched, knowing that I would have the recruitment power tonight, and would win with scum.
Therefore, I can't have been the recruit, and I am telling the truth about what we need to do.

Do you see any flaws in this logic?

If it were option 2 and you had been recruited then its game for cult.

But I gotta accept that having BT the thing losing the ability to recruit would make it one sided for town if we had ahppenend to get the thing early

[Ragian]

And you have no issues with voting with The Thing?

[degaston]

And you have no issues with voting with The Thing?

He could switch and hammer himself if he gets two votes against him.
I guess the only thing you know for sure is that one way or another, he's trying to deceive you.

Obviously, you don't want to vote with the Thing, so you clearly cannot vote no-lynch...
But Vot would have known that town players would not want to vote with him, and would want to use that against you, so you clearly cannot vote to lynch...


You didn't say if you found any flaw in my logic about the recruitment power passing on.

[strike wolf]

And you have no issues with voting with The Thing?

This.

I forgot to mention it in my analysis post but the fact that Vot will happily go with No Lynch has me worried about following this plan

[degaston]

And you have no issues with voting with The Thing?

This.

I forgot to mention it in my analysis post but the fact that Vot will happily go with No Lynch has me worried about following this plan

So do you think recruitment power passes on if he's lynched, or not?

[SoN!c]

After thinking about it some more, I think it's almost certain that the recruiting power transfers if the leader dies.
With cults, there are 3 options when the leader dies:
1. All recruited die.
2. The game continues, but no more recruiting.
3. One of the recruited becomes the new leader.

Option 1 would make no sense - town would win immediately on any night they kill the leader.
Option 2 doesn't make much sense either because town has the BT and the only ability to kill. Once the leader was dead, town could just BT and lynch or no-lynch depending on the result, so the game is still effectively over once the leader dies.

Therefore, I conclude that the recruiting power does transfer.
But as DDS confirmed, if the leader is vigged, the recruit fails, so cult would lose it's recruitment for that night, but a new leader would take over the next night.

If I had been recruited then I would be perfectly happy to have Vot lynched, knowing that I would have the recruitment power tonight, and would win with scum.
Therefore, I can't have been the recruit, and I am telling the truth about what we need to do.

Do you see any flaws in this logic?

Ghost notice:

Try a ouija bord and ask ghost SoN!c for advice could always help.. He did mentioned this on D3 when it was a supereasy "guaranteed win for town, no matter what the lynch sequence would be" and he was asked to commit suicide for exactly that reason because it was a "no brainer" ...lolololol"

So a ouija bird, lots of ganja, brown rum, and a good cuban could summon him (if you blow smoke on a red rooster and drink shots in the 4 wind directions in the right sequence saying the right summoning spell that is).

[Votanic]

Hello all, George here,
I went outside and double-checked the weather-reading instruments. It's going to be windy Autumnal day, nice overall, but it is still Antartica so be sure to dress in layers, I wouldn't want anyone to catch cold.

I've also been thinking about The Thing situation. He really must be an amazing guy.

What a brain on him, I wish I could build a starship in less than a week out of parts from a burnt-out helicopter. Woah!

And his body! it must be incredible to literally be able to transform oneself into just about anything you could ever even imagine!
I don't think that crazy scene in the operating room really showed The Thing in his best light. Everyone was tense and on-edge and yeah so he bit a guys hands off with his own fang-lined stomach wound. It happens.
Actually, I bet The Thing can be quite handsome and debonair when he wants to be. I'm talking Kurt Russell-level handsome.

I guess being a shape-shifting, space-traveling, super-genius can't be all bad, right?
Anyway, something to think about if any of you ever happen to find yourselves being 'converted'.

Reember dress in layers.
George Benning, over-and-out.

[degaston]

Ghost notice...

These souls who for whatever reason are not at rest are also not aware that they have passed on. They're not part of consciousness as we know it. They're in a perpetual dream state, a nightmare from which they cannot wake.

[strike wolf]

I still think it would be unbalanced in cults favor for a game this small and no roleblocker or anything that could prevent cult from recruiting. Every night after N1 would force the vig to shoot and the first time he misses it's pretty much game over as you'd have to lynch correctly every single time.

9 v 1

No Lynch. No vig

8 v 2

5 v 3

Correct lynch but missed vig

3 v 3

Or lynch no vig or vig no lynch N1

7 v 2

4 v 3

Would then need a correct lynch and vig to stay alive.

Or lynch + vig

6 v 2

Into 3 v 3 after N2 with incorrect vig. Or again 4 v 3 if Vig chooses not to act.

The fact that vig stops recruitment though, does make the situation a little more believable.

I'm waiting for DDS's answer to the last question I asked. If there was no way that Vot would have known recruiting you would possibly not be revealed in scene than you're 100% cleared IMO and I'll follow your plan. If not, I'm sticking with the lynch vot vig Traf plan.

Also, Son!c: You're really testing the limit of what's allowed in dead talk.

[degaston]

I still think it would be unbalanced in cults favor for a game this small and no roleblocker or anything that could prevent cult from recruiting.

I agree, it would be unbalanced.
But we do have a roleblocker. DDS confirmed that the vig acts as a recruitment roleblocker if he targets the leader.
Seems pretty important that town should retain that power, or it's game over if the vig is lynched or recruited. Could that be why the vig apparently can't be eliminated?

Back on D3, I posted this:

I was not told that I was a backup vig. I just got a message that I now have the flamethrower, and I have unlimited uses.

You know for sure that I was town then, so you know I was telling the truth. Vot also knew I was town, and would have no reason not to believe me. This is just more evidence showing why I would not have been a likely recruitment target last night.

Every night after N1 would force the vig to shoot and the first time he misses it's pretty much game over as you'd have to lynch correctly every single time.

I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to say here, or what point you're trying to make with your numbers.

[Ragian]

And you have no issues with voting with The Thing?

This.

I forgot to mention it in my analysis post but the fact that Vot will happily go with No Lynch has me worried about following this plan

So do you think recruitment power passes on if he's lynched, or not?

No, I don't think it does. This is based on the cult games I've played before and nothing else.

[degaston]

And you have no issues with voting with The Thing?

This.

I forgot to mention it in my analysis post but the fact that Vot will happily go with No Lynch has me worried about following this plan

So do you think recruitment power passes on if he's lynched, or not?

No, I don't think it does. This is based on the cult games I've played before and nothing else.

So you think that in this game, town's only challenge was to find the cult leader before they got outnumbered, because once he had been eliminated, town wins automatically? That seems pretty dull.

Have you ever played a game that had only cult and no mafia?
If there ever was a game where the recruitment power passed on, I think it would be this one.

[SoN!c]

I still think it would be unbalanced in cults favor for a game this small and no roleblocker or anything that could prevent cult from recruiting. Every night after N1 would force the vig to shoot and the first time he misses it's pretty much game over as you'd have to lynch correctly every single time.

9 v 1

No Lynch. No vig

8 v 2

5 v 3

Correct lynch but missed vig

3 v 3

Or lynch no vig or vig no lynch N1

7 v 2

4 v 3

Would then need a correct lynch and vig to stay alive.

Or lynch + vig

6 v 2

Into 3 v 3 after N2 with incorrect vig. Or again 4 v 3 if Vig chooses not to act.

The fact that vig stops recruitment though, does make the situation a little more believable.

I'm waiting for DDS's answer to the last question I asked. If there was no way that Vot would have known recruiting you would possibly not be revealed in scene than you're 100% cleared IMO and I'll follow your plan. If not, I'm sticking with the lynch vot vig Traf plan.

Also, Son!c: You're really testing the limit of what's allowed in dead talk.

Force ghost notice (third and last notice)


Pushing it to the limit is my middle name. Nothing will be the same after that

"Have you ever played a game that had only cult and no mafia?" I wish i was still in here !! Great game this is. Im not commenting anything on win anymore tho - just dead man chanter to provide some laughter and lighten up

[Ragian]

And you have no issues with voting with The Thing?

This.

I forgot to mention it in my analysis post but the fact that Vot will happily go with No Lynch has me worried about following this plan

So do you think recruitment power passes on if he's lynched, or not?

No, I don't think it does. This is based on the cult games I've played before and nothing else.

So you think that in this game, town's only challenge was to find the cult leader before they got outnumbered, because once he had been eliminated, town wins automatically? That seems pretty dull.

Have you ever played a game that had only cult and no mafia?
If there ever was a game where the recruitment power passed on, I think it would be this one.

I've tried one game, yes. It was like this one on The New Crusade forum.