Vanilla Elementary Mafia - TOWN WINS!

[TrafalgarLaw01]

N1 we all beged doc to protect cop, so targeting cop would have been bad for mafia

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Doc was unknown N1, so they couldnt have get him on purpose

[DirtyDishSoap]

I realize I'm also avoiding Fusi in this regard and that will be an eventuality for me going forward.

As I also mentioned earlier, even if I am completely wrong about this not being a complete Vanilla setting, one of the three is lying.

Fast posted -

N1 - Correct

N2 - Doc claimed self protection. This is where I am basing my argument. A standard doc should not have this ability.

N3 - Strike. I'm arguing that Strike doesn't make sense as an "Obvious" choice because he was on Fusi. It's in scums best interest to divide town, not to unite. Strike was going after a supposed confirmed town. That completely defies any logic going after Strike unless he already had a very loose theory of which I quoted earlier.
Want to know who I'd have killed? Chan or the guy I just replaced, Andrei or whatever his name is. It leaves no room for debate nor a trail. Strike makes absolutely no sense to mean but I'm given that "IT'S OBVIOUS!" The only obvious thing was that Strike had was his theories and was prepared to make a new case if Fusi didn't pan out.

[DirtyDishSoap]

If I am wrong about this being a completely being a vanilla setup. Sorry, booze.

[degaston]

Thanks Law, for that analysis.
And for pointing out that Dunk hinted at cop on D1, before the scum ever had a chance to talk.

As I also mentioned earlier, even if I am completely wrong about this not being a complete Vanilla setting, one of the three is lying.

What is your reasoning behind that statement?
And which one is lying?

Darin or fusi?
I've confirmed that they are town.

Me?
That would mean we have a doc and something else, but no cop? Is that the story you want to stick with?

The problem is that you think you know what the mod would or wouldn't do, but you don't.

Remember the first two rules:

1. The teacher is always right. Do not try and argue with the teacher.
2. However, even teachers are human and make mistakes. This will be remedied ASAP.

Even if Ragian thought he made a mistake by letting the doc protect himself, there would be no way to correct it that wouldn't just make things worse.

N3 - Strike. I'm arguing that Strike doesn't make sense as an "Obvious" choice because he was on Fusi. It's in scums best interest to divide town, not to unite. Strike was going after a supposed confirmed town. That completely defies any logic going after Strike unless he already had a very loose theory of which I quoted earlier.

Strike was not going after a confirmed town, strike WAS a confirmed town. Killing fusi would not have made it likely that we would lynch strike, because no one was questioning my role at that point.

Want to know who I'd have killed? Chan or the guy I just replaced, Andrei or whatever his name is. It leaves no room for debate nor a trail. Strike makes absolutely no sense to mean but I'm given that "IT'S OBVIOUS!" The only obvious thing was that Strike had was his theories and was prepared to make a new case if Fusi didn't pan out.

You would kill a random unknown and leave a confirmed townie alive? That makes zero sense.
You'd just be helping town narrow down the list of possible lynches for the next day.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Fusi, Duke what are ur thoughts?

[fusibaseball]

I'm not reading all that but Town NEEDS to get their votes together on someone and try something. I lean towards Chana and I think my vote's on him but if I need to change it I will. I lean towards whoever was bandwagoning me when I randomly had 5 votes on me for being "quiet" when Andrei and Chana were saying even less. Chana started that

[DirtyDishSoap]

Not ignoring you Dega, I'm waiting for others to contribute.

Fusi - Reading is a pretty basic function of Mafia...Come on dude.

[DukeHazzard]

So, I've been gone for the last week. DDS, I have to hand it to you, you've definitely stir things up. Welcome aboard. I think you have a lot of good points. But I don't agree with you on some of them. The most glaring one being that there are no PR's. While I'm not sure about a doc being able to protect himself or not, I do think we have a power role or two. But not three. So in my mind, which PR is the real deal? I do find it unlikely that the first 2 people that we make claim actually are the power roles out of 11? What are the odds of that? But then why wouldn't someone else, who maybe a real PR, claim they are lying? No one counter claimed, so are we just that lucky to make the first 2 claims PR's? That's where I get fuzzy. But of the 3 claimed PR's, I find the cop the most believable. The doc, second. Mostly bc of the confusion on the self protection. And Fusi's soft claim? We don't even know what that is. I kinda think he's just vanilla townie. It was more of just a hint of a role. Maybe to try and stop the lynching?

I just read through 3 pages. I have to let some of this sink in. Maybe reread it again tomorrow. It's changed my perspective on some things tho. I just have to sort it out in my head.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Doc was unknown N1, so they couldnt have get him on purpose

I actually want to point this out really quickly.

N1 action - No idea what Doc did. If there was any common sense, he would have protected cop. It's not surprising that someone else died.
N2 action - No one died. Doc (before claim) gets pressured into reveal, claims self protection. Why would a Doc NOT protect a cop reveal? Just focus on the logic of this.

A doc is not actively protecting our cop. That's absurd. Why? Another townie (strike), who apparently screamed townie and was "an obvious choice", was also not protected. If he isn't protecting our cop (an arguably more useful role), then why not stay on him like a fly on shit?

Last, again, I have to emphasize the self protect. I will scream until I'm blue about it.

Here's a normal third party role that can self protect: Survivor. Typically a survivor puts on a "Bulletproof Vest" for the night and is immune to night kills. That has a limited use though of one, maybe two.

Is there a third party in this game? Ehhh...No? I want to say no. It's highly unlikely.

[degaston]

I will scream until I'm blue about it.

Yeah, we get it. You don't understand it. Because you won't consider the possibility that we might be telling the truth.

... I think you're all lying!

... it's incredibly likely we just have TWO SCUM.

... one of the three is lying.

So which is it? 1, 2, or 3 of us are lying?
You can't come up with an explanation that doesn't violate basic logic. Because it's all in your head.
We (the 3 power roles who have been investigated and cleared) are all telling the truth. Get over yourself. Tunneling is annoying to everyone, and doesn't help town.
It lets scum just sit back and avoid incriminating themselves while you try to lynch the town power roles for them.

[DirtyDishSoap]

You just took that last quote out of context.

I said, again, for probably the 50th time, that if I were to BE WRONG then 1 of the 3 of you are lying about your role.

[degaston]

You just took that last quote out of context.

I said, again, for probably the 50th time, that if I were to BE WRONG then 1 of the 3 of you are lying about your role.

That makes no sense.
If you are wrong (and you are) then you have no justification for thinking that any of us are lying.

Because there is no combination of any of us being scum that makes any logical sense.

[degaston]

Maybe this will help:

These are all the possibilities.
Tell me which one you think is most likely.

[DirtyDishSoap]

For the exact same reason 3 scum is a hard pill to swallow, is that there isn't 3 power roles! Feel like a broken record.

FP: Nice picture book, doesn't make my arguments any less valid.

[degaston]

EBWOP - Where I referred to players as Vanilla in that table, I meant Town.

[degaston]

For the exact same reason 3 scum is a hard pill to swallow, is that there isn't 3 power roles! Feel like a broken record.

FP: Nice picture book, doesn't make my arguments any less valid.

I don't know what you're trying to say, so I'll ask again.

WHICH OF THOSE POSSIBILITIES DO YOU THINK IS THE MOST LIKELY?

[DirtyDishSoap]

For the exact same reason 3 scum is a hard pill to swallow, is that there isn't 3 power roles! Feel like a broken record.

FP: Nice picture book, doesn't make my arguments any less valid.

I don't know what you're trying to say, so I'll ask again.

WHICH OF THOSE POSSIBILITIES DO YOU THINK IS THE MOST LIKELY?

THE
FORMER,
LIKE
I'VE
SAID
THE
OTHER
50
TIMES!

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Teacher how is Vote count right now?

[degaston]

THE FORMER, LIKE I'VE SAID THE OTHER 50 TIMES!

You've made so many accusations that I can't keep them straight.

I assume you're talking about the first option, where all 3 of us are scum, correct?

How do you square that with this:

That last portion hinges on whether I am right or wrong. Having THREE PR's in a small game like this, when it's incredibly likely we just have TWO SCUM.

I have trouble understanding this statement because it's not very well formed, but it appears that you're saying that there should only be two scum. (Which I agree with)
So clarify it or add whatever context you think it needs if you'd like.

But to sum up:
You think that we must be scum because Ragian wouldn't make a game called Vanilla Elementary with power roles in it, or allow a doc to protect himself, but he would set up a game with 3 scum and 8 town with no power roles and only a 20% chance of winning. And that Dunk90, playing as scum in what appears to be his second Mafia game, and first time as scum, would breadcrumb that he's a cop before he ever had a chance to talk to his scum buddies. And that his scum buddies would go along with it and claim roles of their own.

And you think that's so much more likely than the possibility that Ragian made a game with a cop, a doc and something else, that you'd rather derail the game and lynch those power roles than admit you might be wrong?

[DukeHazzard]

Do you guys think we could stop with the yelling?

[DukeHazzard]

It's obvious that you guys are not going to agree. Can we accept that and move on? Hell, I don't agree either. But maybe we could come to some kind of compromise? I don't see how this is helping us.

We need to figure some way to prove or disprove the PR's. In the last game I was in, my first game, we got messages at night if we were visited for any reason. Has anyone been visited by the doc? Is that a thing in a vanilla game? We also need to agree on how many scum there are. I think 2 in this game. I think most of us agree on that. Which means one of the 3 claimed PR's is real. At least. Maybe 2? I've already said that I trust the cop role the most. If I follow that assumption, then his investigation of Fusi is town. And I have to trust that as well. That only leaves the doc. I don't like the idea of lynching the doc to find out, but we have to find out something. If there are no better ideas out there?? I'd like to hear. We would be taking a risk on lynching one of them, as I only see a 33% success rate on lynching any one of the 3. I'm feeling like we're split on that.

Or, DDS is the scum. He come running out of the gate hard. Stirring up a lot of confusion. Taking us down a different direction than we were going. Is he trying to steer us away from his Scum friend? Were we getting too close on him and the other guy? He is definitely addiment about this being a vanilla game with no PR's. Or maybe he knows there are PR's. Maybe he's scum, trying to steer us to lynching our PR's. If he was here, from the start of the game, I would have more trust for his opinion. But at this point, I only see him as stirring things up and trying to confuse. That seems scummy to me.

Of these two opposing views I have stated, I'm leaning toward DDS as scum more than Darin. As of last count by the teach, there were 2 votes on Darin and 2 on DDS. I don't think that has changed. I'm changing my vote.

Unvote
Vote DDS

[degaston]

I don't see how this is helping us.

It's not.
I cleared Darin and fusi, so there's no point in considering them. The only way we're going to lynch a power role is if they are town and the scum help. So even trying is a wasted vote and a distraction.

I read DDS as town. I have tunneled in the past when I was town, and I think scum generally prefer to not draw so much attention to themselves, or take as risky a position as trying to build a wagon on power roles.

I have not seen any other games where people were informed of visitors, and I'm not aware of a normal role that would do that.

I think I would prefer Pixar, but I'm willing to switch to chana.

[Ragian]

Vote count

2 Darin (DDS, Pixar)
1 Chana (fusi)
2 DDS (Darin, duke)
1 Pixar (Dega)
1 Dega (Chana)

With eight alive, it takes five voting for the same to end the day. No deadline yet.

Get your act together, class. Looking at the vote count, you are all over the place.

[DukeHazzard]

Vote count

2 Darin (DDS, Pixar)
1 Chana (fusi)
2 DDS (Darin, Duke)
1 Pixar (Dega)
1 Dega (Chana)

With eight alive, it takes five voting for the same to end the day. No deadline yet.

Get your act together, class. Looking at the vote count, you are all over the place.

corrected