coronavirus - The Legacy

[jusplay4fun]

Saxi is wrong again. He said:

Anyway, whatever, you've been proved irrelevant now.

My points were that:

1) Saxi only gave you the Trump is wonderful and makes and made NO Mistakes with his COVID-19 Reponse.

2) Trump was slow to respond.

BOTH CONFIRMED.

BUT, unlike Saxi, I can admit to other points of view. This too is from his source, that he FINALLY read. I read it before posting my initial quote, to get him to READ it. Funny, he decided to quote the same that I INTENTIONALLY removed so that he would be force to READ it. So I win on THREE POINTS, not jus the two above. RELEVANT, again, SAXI; you are again proven wrong.

The American people understand that the full, domestic threat of COVID-19 became apparent only slowly. When health experts called for more extreme measures, voters saw a president — in defiance of the left’s caricature of him — act on the science, issuing guidance that put public health above economic considerations. In the coming months, as the administration’s aggressive economic stimulus measures take effect, voters will likely see that Trump’s response has been strong and that his politics have been ahead of the “corona curve.”

I too admit that I was like many in that I had to be convinced over time of the need for an aggressive response to COVID-19.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/21/trumps-po ... ronavirus/

[jusplay4fun]

IN case you missed it, as posts came in quickly:

The US could have reacted faster. Trump was slow to respond. As were many other Americans:

But as the deadly virus spread from China with ferocity across the United States between late January and early March, large-scale testing of people who might have been infected did not happen — because of technical flaws, regulatory hurdles, business-as-usual bureaucracies and lack of leadership at multiple levels, according to interviews with more than 50 current and former public health officials, administration officials, senior scientists and company executives.

The result was a lost month, when the world’s richest country — armed with some of the most highly trained scientists and infectious disease specialists — squandered its best chance of containing the virus’s spread. Instead, Americans were left largely blind to the scale of a looming public health catastrophe.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/us/t ... demic.html

Warnings Ignored: A Timeline of Trump’s COVID-19 Response

During the critical period between the outbreak in China and the landfall of coronavirus in America, Donald Trump was warned about our general vulnerabilities and the specific actions his administration needed to take to avoid the worst. This is the timeline of how he ignored them.

by TIM MILLER MARCH 25, 2020 5:11 AM

https://thebulwark.com/warnings-ignored ... -response/

[saxitoxin]

Great news! Responsible states are now taking action to isolate and blockade poorly run, Rat states that are so incompetently managed that COVID-19 is out of control. Yesterday Governor Abbot sealed Texas' border with Rat-run Louisiana and is requiring all Louisianans to enter 14 days of quarantine.

Abbott said state troopers will now also patrol entry points at the Louisiana border and require "everyone stopped" in those cars to also self-isolate.

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/texas- ... r-covid-19

Unfortunately, there are many responsible and hygienic Louisianans outside the City of New Orleans who are having to pay the price for that state having a Rat governor and the city having a Rat mayor who OK'ed having Mardi Gras in violation of President Trump's Coronavirus Guidelines for America. If it weren't for Rat governors, America would probably have an even lower mortality rate than it already has.

Meanwhile, President Trump's USNS Comfort has arrived in New York to aid the people of that belegaured city suffering due to the incompetence of the Rat governor Cuomo and the Rat mayor De Blasio.

[HitRed]

[/quote]

If you look carefully you can see J4F protesting American in the background.

[mrswdk]

Remember to wash your hands correctly to eliminate all COVID on them!

[Lootifer]

Hehe. Ole Saxi trolling up a well-researched storm as usual. It’s like people don’t read your name....

I am a little disappointed you have gone so furiously pro-Trump - it’s like playing Skyrim on easy old man. But I suppose it would be impossible to refuse (and your actual distaste for the EU ofc).

Unless... Здесь есть что-нибудь более зловещее?

[armati]

PMs are going to go thru the roof.
It will take a little more time, but its going to happen.

Paper currencies are going to lose alot of purchasing power, they are printing them into oblivion.

gl everyone.

[jusplay4fun]

Again, Saxi tries to spread a false narrative; perhaps FAKE NEWS, even.

Mardi Gras was Feb. 25, 2020. The White House does not issue Coronavirus Guidelines for America until March 16, ONE day before St. Patrick's Day. Perhaps Saxi got his ethnic celebrations confused. Sorry, Saxi, you are proven WRONG AGAIN...!

Get your facts right before you post, please; you are losing credibility FAST.

Great news! Responsible states are now taking action to isolate and blockade poorly run, Rat states that are so incompetently managed that COVID-19 is out of control. Yesterday Governor Abbot sealed Texas' border with Rat-run Louisiana and is requiring all Louisianans to enter 14 days of quarantine.

Abbott said state troopers will now also patrol entry points at the Louisiana border and require "everyone stopped" in those cars to also self-isolate.

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/texas- ... r-covid-19

Unfortunately, there are many responsible and hygienic Louisianans outside the City of New Orleans who are having to pay the price for that state having a Rat governor and the city having a Rat mayor who OK'ed having Mardi Gras in violation of President Trump's Coronavirus Guidelines for America. If it weren't for Rat governors, America would probably have an even lower mortality rate than it already has.

Meanwhile, President Trump's USNS Comfort has arrived in New York to aid the people of that belegaured city suffering due to the incompetence of the Rat governor Cuomo and the Rat mayor De Blasio.

[mrswdk]

On a side note, Trump predicts that the US will reach at least 308 deaths per million population as a result of COVID-19, compared to China's rate of 2 deaths per million population:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/29/poli ... index.html

Trump is expected to confirm in a later press conference that the US model of government is the best model for upholding the well-being and security of its citizens, cheered on in person by all sixteen of his supporters who are still able to leave their ICU unassisted.

[saxitoxin]

On a side note, Trump predicts that the US will reach at least 308 deaths per million population as a result of COVID-19, compared to China's rate of 2 deaths per million population:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/29/poli ... index.html

Trump is expected to confirm in a later press conference that the US model of government is the best model for upholding the well-being and security of its citizens, cheered on in person by all sixteen of his supporters who are still able to leave their ICU unassisted.

Actually this is fake news, as only 38% of the American public disapprove of the way the President has successfully handled the coronacrisis. Majorities of Republican (98%) and Independents (60%) say all glory is owed the President. (And even one out of every four Democrats approve of Trump's work to keep America's death toll at 10% of Europe's.)

[jonesthecurl]

Yeah but that lightning is looking less dangerous, no?

[mrswdk]

On a side note, Trump predicts that the US will reach at least 308 deaths per million population as a result of COVID-19, compared to China's rate of 2 deaths per million population:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/29/poli ... index.html

Trump is expected to confirm in a later press conference that the US model of government is the best model for upholding the well-being and security of its citizens, cheered on in person by all sixteen of his supporters who are still able to leave their ICU unassisted.

Actually this is fake news, as only 38% of the American public disapprove of the way the President has successfully handled the coronacrisis. Majorities of Republican (98%) and Independents (60%) say all glory is owed the President. (And even one out of every four Democrats approve of Trump's work to keep America's death toll at 10% of Europe's.)

Yes, the CIA’s domestic propaganda wing is highly effective.

[Dukasaur]

You can slice, divide, massage, and manipulate geographies however you want to try to reinforce your biased worldview. But simple facts speak for themselves, and the facts say Trump's policy worked.

If Trump's goal was to achieve first place, and have more cases of Covid than any other nation on earth, then I suppose his policy worked.

He didn't make that goal explicit.

[Dukasaur]

[saxitoxin]

You can slice, divide, massage, and manipulate geographies however you want to try to reinforce your biased worldview. But simple facts speak for themselves, and the facts say Trump's policy worked.

If Trump's goal was to achieve first place, and have more cases of Covid than any other nation on earth, then I suppose his policy worked.

Do you have Down Syndrome?

That's like saying "Canada only got 4 gold medals in the 2016 Olympics, while the U.S. got 46, therefore, America is 11-times better at sport than Canada." Except the U.S. is ten times larger than Canada and has a larger pool of potential talent from which to draw. The U.S. is the world's third largest nation. It will always have more of everything than anyone.

[saxitoxin]

A growing consensus agrees the EU will not survive the pandemic. Europe is destined for another Great War that will ravage the continent and finish off everyone who didn't die from COVID-19. Europe's future is nothing but doom and death.

“European solidarity does not exist,” the Serbian leader, Aleksandar Vucic, said when he announced a state of emergency in televised remarks. “That was a fairy tale on paper. I believe in my brother and friend Xi Jinping, and I believe in Chinese help.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/worl ... a-aid.html

In a shameful abdication of responsibility, fellow countries in the European Union have failed to give medical assistance and supplies to Italy during an outbreak. China is filling the void.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/14/co ... china-aid/

A furious Italian MEP has launched a scathing attack on the European Union for abandoning member-states like Italy during the coronavirus. Annalisa Tardino took Brussels to task for appearing to agree to send billions of euros to Turkey this week - but falling silent when Italy requested aid. There is growing concern within Brussels that the long-lasting impact of the coronavirus could end up tearing the EU apart.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/12 ... urkey-news

Yet when Italy pleaded for fellow countries to send it medical equipment such as masks, France and Germany not only failed to respond, they placed export bans (since lifted) on the export of the kit Italian hospitals were crying out for. In the end it was left to China to show EU how to respond to a country in dire need.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... arp-relief

But the Italians have noticed this dereliction, to the point where, in a recent poll, 88 percent of Italians thought the EU was of no help during the crisis, and only 21 percent thought EU membership was beneficial overall. If those kinds of numbers persist, how can the EU expect to survive?

https://theweek.com/articles/904717/eu- ... oronavirus

[dgz345]

How is it going for NYC?

[mrswdk]

On a side note, Trump predicts that the US will reach at least 308 deaths per million population as a result of COVID-19, compared to China's rate of 2 deaths per million population:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/29/poli ... index.html

Trump is expected to confirm in a later press conference that the US model of government is the best model for upholding the well-being and security of its citizens, cheered on in person by all sixteen of his supporters who are still able to leave their ICU unassisted.

UPDATED ESTIMATES

Trump is now predicting a US death rate of 616 deaths per million population:

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/30/21199586/ ... 0-good-job

[saxitoxin]

On a side note, Trump predicts that the US will reach at least 308 deaths per million population as a result of COVID-19, compared to China's rate of 2 deaths per million population:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/29/poli ... index.html

Trump is expected to confirm in a later press conference that the US model of government is the best model for upholding the well-being and security of its citizens, cheered on in person by all sixteen of his supporters who are still able to leave their ICU unassisted.

UPDATED ESTIMATES

Trump is now predicting a US death rate of 616 deaths per million population:

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/30/21199586/ ... 0-good-job

Sounds about right.

At current ratios that would put the deaths in the Netherlands at about 3,000 per million. (Of course it will never get to that number in the Netherlands. Once it hits around 1500, supply chains will collapse, the government will start to falter, and you'll see more deaths from starvation and general civil chaos than from COVID-19.)

How is it going for NYC?

Better than it is for Venice, Madrid, Brussels, London and Amsterdam.

[mrswdk]

Trump at the start of March: 'COVID-19 doesn't matter, barely anyone has it, we shouldn't bother reacting'

Trump in the middle of March: 'this has been tough but we should be open again completely within a few weeks, and no I'm not going to send ventilators to New York'

Trump at the end of March: 'if we do a good job then we should limit deaths to about 200,000 and I've demanded the nation's manufacturers start making emergency medical equipment'

Trump by mid-April: ? probably dead of COVID-19 with half of the US in flames

[mrswdk]

How is it going for NYC?

Better than it is for Venice, Madrid, Brussels, London and Amsterdam.

New York State has a population roughly 1/3 the size of the UK and its first COVID-19 case was later than the UK's, yet it already has three times the number of COVID cases as the UK.

[saxitoxin]

Institutions in European Union, Where Majority of World's Deaths Are, Now in Total Collapse as Panic, Hysteria Grips Streets - Europe Returns to 1933 ... Continental War Only a Matter of Time

Orban Allowed to Rule by Decree

Hungary’s parliament gave Prime Minister Viktor Orbán the right to rule by decree until his government decides the coronavirus crisis has ended, defying criticism from European Union leaders that the pandemic is providing cover for his and other governments to crack down on democratic freedoms.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hungarys-o ... 1585584669

[mrswdk]

Institutions in European Union, Where Majority of World's Deaths Are, Now in Total Collapse as Panic, Hysteria Grips Streets - Europe Returns to 1933 ... Continental War Only a Matter of Time

Orban Allowed to Rule by Decree

Hungary’s parliament gave Prime Minister Viktor Orbán the right to rule by decree until his government decides the coronavirus crisis has ended, defying criticism from European Union leaders that the pandemic is providing cover for his and other governments to crack down on democratic freedoms.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hungarys-o ... 1585584669

You earlier in this thread:

If this continues President Trump will need to shut Congress and legislate by Executive Order. He has a popular mandate to do so.

It's okay, bro. You think China's model of government is superior. Trump thinks so. European heads of state think so. Everyone thinks so. Being able to admit you could improve is a sign of your strength, not weakness.

[Dukasaur]

Different strategies in use in neighbouring regions of Italy yeild dramatically different results.

https://hbr.org/2020/03/lessons-from-it ... oronavirus

Lombardy, one Europe’s wealthiest and most productive areas, has been disproportionately hit by Covid-19. As of March 26, it held the grim record of nearly 35,000 novel coronavirus cases and 5,000 deaths in a population of 10 million. Veneto, by contrast, fared significantly better, with 7,000 cases and 287 deaths in a population of 5 million, despite experiencing sustained community spread early on.

The trajectories of these two regions have been shaped by a multitude of factors outside the control of policymakers, including Lombardy’s greater population density and higher number of cases when the crisis erupted. But it’s becoming increasingly apparent that different public health choices made early in the cycle of the pandemic also had an impact.

Specifically, while Lombardy and Veneto applied similar approaches to social distancing and retail closures, Veneto took a much more proactive tack towards the containment of the virus. Veneto’s strategy was multi-pronged:

• Extensive testing of symptomatic and asymptomatic cases early on.
• Proactive tracing of potential positives. If someone tested positive, everyone in that patient’s home as well as their neighbors were tested. If testing kits were unavailable, they were self-quarantined.
• A strong emphasis on home diagnosis and care. Whenever possible, samples were collected directly from a patient’s home and then processed in regional and local university labs.
• Specific efforts to monitor and protect health care and other essential workers. They included medical professionals, those in contact with at-risk populations (e.g., caregivers in nursing homes), and workers exposed to the public (e.g., supermarket cashiers, pharmacists, and protective services staff).

Following the guidance from public health authorities in the central government, Lombardy opted instead for a more conservative approach to testing. On a per capita basis, it has so far conducted half of the tests conducted in Veneto and had a much stronger focus only on symptomatic cases — and has so far made limited investments in proactive tracing, home care and monitoring, and protection of health care workers.

[mrswdk]

i.e. the 'Asian model'

I couldn't believe that the UK only started testing NHS clinical staff this week.

I saw some commentary saying that basically, Asian countries learned from their experience of SARS and that's informed the approaches they've been taking to COVID-19, but that learning wasn't subsequently taken up in other regions like Europe and North America for whatever reason (presumably hubris) hence them scrabbling around not knowing how to respond when the virus first appeared in their countries.