DoomYoshi wrote:jimboston wrote:DoomYoshi wrote:Your comments indicated that you do somewhat believe yourself to be judge.
You said Gandhi not being Christian made you question your faith. I was just following this to mean that you think Gandhi "should be" in heaven. So the question becomes then, do you trust yourself to make that call? Or even better, do you trust the priest to make that call?
I don’t think I am arbiter or whether or not Gandhi should be in Heaven.
I do think that he was, by nearly universal accounts, a “good” man. A who helped his people achieve independence and freedom from oppression by preaching peaceful methods. That’s a very laudable and Christ-like accomplishment.
Yes, Gandhi is lovely, in terms of humanity. There is a core problem with how humans define goodness though. We always look down the scale. People justify their own sins by looking at a worse sinner and saying "at least I'm not a criminal in jail" and the criminal in jail says "at least I'm not Hitler" and then Hitler says "At least I'm not NomadPatriot" and so on, and so on, until you get to Satan. However, when you look "up" the scale, you start to realize the problem with our human perspective looking down the ladder. At the top is the one, true, wholly holy and purely good God. His presence cannot abide with evil or sin of any kind and unfortunately, as good as Gandhi might be, he isn't good enough to be in God's presence without perishing. He just can't measure up. Nobody can, and that's why Jesus came, to cover our sins and allow us into the presence of God.
More specifically though I DON’T think he’s entrance into Heaven should be determine solely upon the fact that he wasn’t Christian and didn’t believe Jesus was the One True Savior.
That's fine for you to disagree with a priest. Perhaps Jesus is on your side on this one. One of Gandhi's favorite passages in the Bible was the Sermon on the Mount, which ends with this invitation:
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
I disagree that I am dooming myself to Hell because I ‘reject’ Christ. I don’t reject most of what the Bible states as the opinions of Christ and I accept what is stated as his teachings.... that we should (in general) love and be kind to our fellow humans. I just feel God (if there is a God) will give me a pass on disbelieving in Jesus if I am otherwise a mostly good person.
Which parts specifically do you reject?
There is the idea of "good people getting rewarded" within scripture, but it is always "good people who seek God" not "good people who seek their own benefit".
This is all your belief and that’s fine.
Maybe you’re right, and maybe I’ll wind up in hell no matter how kind a person I am or how “good” a person I am.
I don’t have the patience to type out in detail all I accept and all I reject from the Bible.
I don’t want to argue about the Bible, as I cannot win an argument against your faith.
By definition your faith is based on ‘what you believe’ and if you are truly committed to your believe system then anything I say will not change that no matter how logical or how much I type. Furthermore I have no interest in changing your faith. Your faith is likely a source of joy and comfort for you... and that’s great. I wouldn’t be a very “kind or good” person if my intent in discussing this with you was to make you lose your faith... would I?
A “nice or good” person would not try to take something from another human that is a source of joy and comfort for that person.
All said... my biggest problem with Christianity is the idea that you have to be Christian to receive external reward.
(Now there was a post saying the Pope disagrees with this, and if that’s true fine... but that doesn’t change how most Christians feel about the subject.)
My problem with having to believe in Jesus first is centered around a few related thoughts...
- What about people who were born and lived BEFORE Jesus? By definition they were not and could not be Christians, and therefore cannot have Eternal Life.
- What about people who lived after Jesus, but whole were never exposed to Christianity? Never given the “opportunity” to accept Him?
(I’m thinking about natives of the Americas or remote islands etc)... these people were never given a chance to accept Jesus. They re not Christian and therefore cannot get into Heaven.
- What about people who were born and raised in other faiths? Even if peripherally exposed to Jesus they were not educated in the same way I was and therefore their likelihood of being Christian is low. This is especially true of people like Gandhi, who was exposed to Christianity but who likely saw Christianity as the religion of the oppressors. How is it reasonable to think that someone living under the thumb of a Christian oppressor is going to convert?
- ... and then there are all those people who are “Christian” but are evil. I’m thinking like half the Popes from the middle ages, and all the Catholic priests who raped boys... and then just the local drug dealer who goes to church every Sunday. According to my upbringing... any and all these people will be forgiven is they truly repent... and once forgiven they get to go to Heaven. Yet a Muslim who’s a kind man, who treats his neighbors and family well, and who never does anything bad to anyone else... he can’t go to Heaven?
It just doesn’t seem fair.
Yet we’re often told “God is Just”.... so where is the “Justice” there?
