[CCX] Conquerors Cup 10 - (1. S&M, 2. TOFU, MVP: josko.ri)

[josko.ri]

Spanked and Milked (S&M)
1st: davekettering
2nd: josko.ri
Read and understood the rules.

[IcePack]

the Fallen (FALL)
1st Contact: IcePack
2nd Contact: mc05025
The rules have been read and understood.

[JPlo64]

Fraternal Order Of Exceptional Drinkers (FOED)
1st: JPlo64
2nd: groovysmurf
Read and understood the rules.

[Lindax]

Sign-up is now closed. We have 11 clans.

I will post the bracket/seeding today.

Lx

[Lindax]

Bracket and Seeding

LHDD
BYE
RET
OSA
-
FALL
ICON
BYE
A^
-
TOFU
BYE
BYE
S&M
-
ATL
LOW
BYE
FOED

----

Seeding (3 to 8 based on November D400):

1.- LHDD
2.- FOED
3.- TOFU
4.- A^
5.- S&M
6.- FALL
7.- ATL
8.- OSA

The remaining 3 clans in random order are: RET, ICON and LOW

Spoiler

There were 3 items in your list. Here they are in random order:

1. RET
2. ICON
3. LOW

IP: 200.92.250.100
Timestamp: 2019-12-30 17:49:16 UTC

The first 5 seeds have a round 1 bye. The clan wars for round 1 are:

RET vs OSA
FALL vs ICON
ATL vs LOW

Round 1 starts January 5, 2020. The 6 week deadline ends on February 16, 2020.

The one clan war already known for round 2 is: TOFU vs S&M. They may start any time between January 5 and February 16, 2020.
-

[Caymanmew]

How many games for each round?

This will be a 4 round tournament instead of 5 which is in the OP.

[Doc_Brown]

Lindax,
I think you set up the bracket incorrectly. You have switched FALL and S&M's positions in the bracket. Also, FALL is higher seeded than ATL and should get the lower seeded opponent, so FALL should face LOW and ATL should face ICON. Standard bracket layout is as follows:

The seeds (including randomly assigned 9-11) were:
1.- LHDD
2.- FOED
3.- TOFU
4.- A^
5.- S&M
6.- FALL
7.- ATL
8.- OSA
9.- RET
10.- ICON
11.- LOW

This should produce the following bracket:
LHDD
BYE
RET
OSA
-
S&M
BYE
BYE
A^
-
TOFU
BYE
LOW
FALL
-
ATL
ICON
BYE
FOED

[donche64]

I think there was a similar debate two years ago or something. And Lindax explained he wasn't using a tennis-like bracket. Might be worth checking it (not easy on my cellphone).

[Lindax]

I think there was a similar debate two years ago or something. And Lindax explained he wasn't using a tennis-like bracket. Might be worth checking it (not easy on my cellphone).

Indeed, but that was years ago during CC6. It was then changed to what it is now. We have been using this format ever since.

For Doc: It works out as 8v1, 7v2, 6v4, 5v3.

Oh, and we seed only 8, the others are always added to the bracket randomly (see the result from random.org above).

Lx

[donche64]

Yup, just found the thread for CC7 predictions, where there were huge drama too !

Anyway, good luck everybody !

[rockfist]

Why would you have 5v3 and 6v4? That makes no sense to me. I would think that you'd have 6v3 and 5v4, otherwise what is the benefit of having the #3 ranking versus the #4 ranking?

[josko.ri]

This 5v3 and 6v4 was wrong setup discussed several years go. I thought it was fixed since then.

[Lindax]

Why would you have 5v3 and 6v4? That makes no sense to me. I would think that you'd have 6v3 and 5v4, otherwise what is the benefit of having the #3 ranking versus the #4 ranking?

Not coming up against the number 1 seed until the final?

It was decided years ago, I don't remember the whatfors and withertos.

Lx

[Doc_Brown]

Actually, back in the CC7 thread, you acknowledged that everyone had a good point and you would fix it for CC8.
Your modification doesn't switch #3 and #4, so #3 won't face #1 until the final, but it does penalize #3 by giving them #5 as an opponent instead of #6. Every other bracket formulation out there would pair #6 against #3 and #5 against #4.

You're also rewarding the #6 seed versus #5 by giving them the easier opponent.

[Doc_Brown]

Here was the earlier discussion:
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 5#p4883898

At that time, the challonge page was already up and brackets had been submitted, but it was stated that it would be fixed in successive years:
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 5#p4884260

[rockfist]

Why would you have 5v3 and 6v4? That makes no sense to me. I would think that you'd have 6v3 and 5v4, otherwise what is the benefit of having the #3 ranking versus the #4 ranking?

Not coming up against the number 1 seed until the final?

Lx

Under a normal bracket system a #3 seed should not have to face a #1 seed unless both make the final. They should have to face the #2 seed. The winner of the 4v5 match usually faces the #1 seed.

[iAmCaffeine]

Is anyone actually surprised he did it how he felt like though?

[elddir]

I don't know the history here, but brackets are a known thing. Why are we recreating the wheel here? Every bracket I've ever seen in my entire life is like what Doc Brown posted. This is just confusing.

[Doc_Brown]

I just went back and looked at the more recent brackets. Keefie ran CC8 and used the normal bracket seeding. In CC9, the incorrect seeding was applied. Interestingly, FOED and OSA should have been swapped (assuming the seeding was based on December 2018 clan ranking). In all likelihood, either TOFU or A^ would have been in the final now against either FOED or LHDD with correct bracket seeding.

[rockfist]

It’s impossible to say what might have happened. Both TOFU and A^ lost prior to the final...if one gets into ifs, what is to say that OSA isn’t in the final now? In any case I think the bracket for CC10 should be corrected.

[Doc_Brown]

By the way, this bracket generation is easy if you use Challonge. We have 11 total teams, with the first 8 seeded according to November rankings and the next 3 with random seeding. Since they were assigned the order
1. RET
2. ICON
3. LOW
you can effectively make RET #9, ICON #10 and LOW #11. Then the Challonge bracket becomes the following:
https://challonge.com/tournaments/brack ... PFUD5Xtw6k

There is no option to select a seeding method on the site because there is one standard bracket seeding method that is determined mathematically.

The round 1 wars (based on the seeded rankings and randomly assigned order generated by Lindax) should be:
OSA v RET
ATL v ICON
FALL v LOW

The round 2 war that can be started already is A^ v S&M

[betiko]

It’s impossible to say what might have happened. Both TOFU and A^ lost prior to the final...if one gets into ifs, what is to say that OSA isn’t in the final now? In any case I think the bracket for CC10 should be corrected.

I know what would have happened.. LHDD would have been champion either way. We beat FALL then S&M to get to the final and we just need to clean up a few games to validate our CC9 championship agaisnt FOED who had a pretty hard path to get there.

[IcePack]

Can we get clarification from the CD team whether a bracket change is being considered? I’d like to move forward w contacting the opposing clan contacts, but the issue hangs over whether this is the final bracket or not. Don’t care either way, just want to move forward one way or the other and get clarified.
Thanks
IP

[Doc_Brown]

I would contend that the rules statement about top 8 being seeded into brackets would require a correct bracket filling. What we have currently is not truly a seeded bracket.

[Lindax]

Apparently there are some more clans interested in joining, so we decided to postpone the start and open sign-up again for another week.

Then we can adress the bracket issue as well.

I will send a pm to all clans tomorrow.

Lx