Should the IRS be politically weaponized?

[spurgistan]

It was a reasonably short way of asking that. I guess I don't know what's on his tax returns, but it's the old "if there's smoke, and there's an awful lot of heat and firefighters are telling you to stay away and it's bright red and burning, there's probably fire"

[thegreekdog]

It was a reasonably short way of asking that. I guess I don't know what's on his tax returns, but it's the old "if there's smoke, and there's an awful lot of heat and firefighters are telling you to stay away and it's bright red and burning, there's probably fire"

From an apolitical perspective, I would say it's more worthwhile to go after Trump for things like trying to obstruct justice since he did try to do that. That seems like an impeachable offense to me and, again apolitically, seems like the right thing to do.

Further, politically, it seems like going after Trump for, among many other things, trying to obstruct justice, benefiting from Russian interference, benefiting privately from public office, and being generally a jerk, are more expedient than trying to get him to release his tax returns which will, at best, tell you what you already know and won't convince any Trumpist of anything anyway. Of course, I read somewhere (I think 538 or Nate Silver's twitter feed) that most voters don't actually care about the Mueller report all that much.

Further further, the precedent of requiring a politician to release his/her tax returns could be problematic for either political party in the future.

tl;dr - I think it's too much of a fight with too little payoff with the potential to harm others in the long-term, combined with other politically more viable and expedient options, to fight with him to release his tax returns.

[Symmetry]

It was a reasonably short way of asking that. I guess I don't know what's on his tax returns, but it's the old "if there's smoke, and there's an awful lot of heat and firefighters are telling you to stay away and it's bright red and burning, there's probably fire"

From an apolitical perspective, I would say it's more worthwhile to go after Trump for things like trying to obstruct justice since he did try to do that. That seems like an impeachable offense to me and, again apolitically, seems like the right thing to do.

Further, politically, it seems like going after Trump for, among many other things, trying to obstruct justice, benefiting from Russian interference, benefiting privately from public office, and being generally a jerk, are more expedient than trying to get him to release his tax returns which will, at best, tell you what you already know and won't convince any Trumpist of anything anyway. Of course, I read somewhere (I think 538 or Nate Silver's twitter feed) that most voters don't actually care about the Mueller report all that much.

Further further, the precedent of requiring a politician to release his/her tax returns could be problematic for either political party in the future.

tl;dr - I think it's too much of a fight with too little payoff with the potential to harm others in the long-term, combined with other politically more viable and expedient options, to fight with him to release his tax returns.

Who else do you think a release of Trump's tax returns would harm?

I mean, I hate to bring up Norway (I don't really) but that's a country where everybody's tax returns are publicly available to everyone, and it's not really a nightmare scenario if that's how you see the bottom of the slippery slope.

Having said that, I did go through Hell twice the last time I was there.

[spurgistan]

It was a reasonably short way of asking that. I guess I don't know what's on his tax returns, but it's the old "if there's smoke, and there's an awful lot of heat and firefighters are telling you to stay away and it's bright red and burning, there's probably fire"

From an apolitical perspective, I would say it's more worthwhile to go after Trump for things like trying to obstruct justice since he did try to do that. That seems like an impeachable offense to me and, again apolitically, seems like the right thing to do.

Further, politically, it seems like going after Trump for, among many other things, trying to obstruct justice, benefiting from Russian interference, benefiting privately from public office, and being generally a jerk, are more expedient than trying to get him to release his tax returns which will, at best, tell you what you already know and won't convince any Trumpist of anything anyway. Of course, I read somewhere (I think 538 or Nate Silver's twitter feed) that most voters don't actually care about the Mueller report all that much.

Further further, the precedent of requiring a politician to release his/her tax returns could be problematic for either political party in the future.

tl;dr - I think it's too much of a fight with too little payoff with the potential to harm others in the long-term, combined with other politically more viable and expedient options, to fight with him to release his tax returns.

The Congress has an awful lot of committees. One committee can legally subpeona his taxes in connection with the Russia probe while another tries to get DOJ to care about obstruction that the Mueller report basically says has a decent case but they . I could see your argument in a political capital sense, but the more investigations into him the more he acts completely unhinged and says regretful stuff, which I think hurts him more than you'd think.

I think it's easy to go way too far into the weeds trying to pull away Trump's base. That's not really the way modern American politics works - the bases are locked in. You show your average Trump base guy, or, conversely, say, me a picture of their nominee killing a bald eagle with the American flag while holding today's newspaper and saying their social security number, they/me are gonna look for a reason to vote them in anyways. The marginal votes are the important ones. The people who were convinced last election that both sides were basically the same level of corrupt, but wouldn't you rather have a beer with Donald, though?

Also, apolitically we're talking about enforcing norms of the office. He's the first since ya boy Gerald Ford not to release tax returns.

[thegreekdog]

It was a reasonably short way of asking that. I guess I don't know what's on his tax returns, but it's the old "if there's smoke, and there's an awful lot of heat and firefighters are telling you to stay away and it's bright red and burning, there's probably fire"

From an apolitical perspective, I would say it's more worthwhile to go after Trump for things like trying to obstruct justice since he did try to do that. That seems like an impeachable offense to me and, again apolitically, seems like the right thing to do.

Further, politically, it seems like going after Trump for, among many other things, trying to obstruct justice, benefiting from Russian interference, benefiting privately from public office, and being generally a jerk, are more expedient than trying to get him to release his tax returns which will, at best, tell you what you already know and won't convince any Trumpist of anything anyway. Of course, I read somewhere (I think 538 or Nate Silver's twitter feed) that most voters don't actually care about the Mueller report all that much.

Further further, the precedent of requiring a politician to release his/her tax returns could be problematic for either political party in the future.

tl;dr - I think it's too much of a fight with too little payoff with the potential to harm others in the long-term, combined with other politically more viable and expedient options, to fight with him to release his tax returns.

Who else do you think a release of Trump's tax returns would harm?

I mean, I hate to bring up Norway (I don't really) but that's a country where everybody's tax returns are publicly available to everyone, and it's not really a nightmare scenario if that's how you see the bottom of the slippery slope.

Having said that, I did go through Hell twice the last time I was there.

The "not making tax returns public" thing may just be an Americanization thing.

[thegreekdog]

It was a reasonably short way of asking that. I guess I don't know what's on his tax returns, but it's the old "if there's smoke, and there's an awful lot of heat and firefighters are telling you to stay away and it's bright red and burning, there's probably fire"

From an apolitical perspective, I would say it's more worthwhile to go after Trump for things like trying to obstruct justice since he did try to do that. That seems like an impeachable offense to me and, again apolitically, seems like the right thing to do.

Further, politically, it seems like going after Trump for, among many other things, trying to obstruct justice, benefiting from Russian interference, benefiting privately from public office, and being generally a jerk, are more expedient than trying to get him to release his tax returns which will, at best, tell you what you already know and won't convince any Trumpist of anything anyway. Of course, I read somewhere (I think 538 or Nate Silver's twitter feed) that most voters don't actually care about the Mueller report all that much.

Further further, the precedent of requiring a politician to release his/her tax returns could be problematic for either political party in the future.

tl;dr - I think it's too much of a fight with too little payoff with the potential to harm others in the long-term, combined with other politically more viable and expedient options, to fight with him to release his tax returns.

The Congress has an awful lot of committees. One committee can legally subpeona his taxes in connection with the Russia probe while another tries to get DOJ to care about obstruction that the Mueller report basically says has a decent case but they . I could see your argument in a political capital sense, but the more investigations into him the more he acts completely unhinged and says regretful stuff, which I think hurts him more than you'd think.

I think it's easy to go way too far into the weeds trying to pull away Trump's base. That's not really the way modern American politics works - the bases are locked in. You show your average Trump base guy, or, conversely, say, me a picture of their nominee killing a bald eagle with the American flag while holding today's newspaper and saying their social security number, they/me are gonna look for a reason to vote them in anyways. The marginal votes are the important ones. The people who were convinced last election that both sides were basically the same level of corrupt, but wouldn't you rather have a beer with Donald, though?

Also, apolitically we're talking about enforcing norms of the office. He's the first since ya boy Gerald Ford not to release tax returns.

Good points. I guess my view is how crazy do you need to get around investigating President Trump when his approval rating, with a good economy, is 39%? I can see a plausible scenario where the Dems go too far with investigations (I think there is a more likely plausible scenario where they nominate a presidential candidate with "too far left" political views).

[Bernie Sanders]

If you are a Republican Congressman.....not many Republican Congresswomen or non-white to be honest.....to be a true centrist or moderate.....you would be considered a SOCIALIST, LEFTISTS or COMMUNIST.

It's the Republican Party thats off the rails! The new GOP = Government of Putin, Corporate Dik Sukkkers. Violator of women's and minority rights. Yet we get dumb poor white trash who will vote Republican, just so their fellow poor blacks get NOTHING!

[thegreekdog]

If you are a Republican Congressman.....not many Republican Congresswomen or non-white to be honest.....to be a true centrist or moderate.....you would be considered a SOCIALIST, LEFTISTS or COMMUNIST.

It's the Republican Party thats off the rails! The new GOP = Government of Putin, Corporate Dik Sukkkers. Violator of women's and minority rights. Yet we get dumb poor white trash who will vote Republican, just so their fellow poor blacks get NOTHING!

43! Bombastic! Random words!

[Bernie Sanders]

Thank you for your support!