The Nazi discussion.

[2dimes]

Upon review your first post seems to have been a fair assesment of me and my thread also.

[BigBallinStalin]

So, what else is there?

If one were to label another as a Nazi, does that label distinguish between different degrees of so-called "Nazi-ness?"

Certainly, not all members of that political party advocated killing Jews, did they? Maybe some liked certain parts about the party and disliked other parts. For example, Hitler saying something along the lines of improving the German people's welfare, their well-being, sounds like a great thing that perhaps some members of that political were in agreement with, but the anti-Semitism... or even the method for handling the Jews was not too agreeable of an aspect.

So, in this case, not all Nazis are scum, are they?

[Captain_Scarlet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flt3B3QWmOo

I warn you its very distressing to watch

[hahaha3hahaha]

-deleted-

[Captain_Scarlet]

I don't know if everyone will recognise the humour - but here is a now rather famous piece they did

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r082T2fkDpA

[SultanOfSurreal]

it's easy to tell yourself that every single german living in germany between 1930 and 1945 happened to be magical subhuman supervillains.

Well... I supose you could, but that makes you one of them. You're just another simple minded racist who can't see that the nazis were scum, if you lump all the Germans in with the nazis, just because most of the actual nazis were German and Austrian. So yeah I have no idea why anyone would.

i'd almost be willing to congratulate you for so deftly missing the entire point of what i said, if only you hadn't made yourself look like a snotty fucking moron in the process

[2dimes]

Sorry I missed your post Sultan. I was pretty busy with things to do with the long restoration of our house after a fire. Also I might not be able to read. Fair enough I guess, Maybe I'm a snotty moron.

So I have been watching Hitler's Bodyguard a series on Netflix in Canader right now.

The first episode is quite amazing. A large portion of it is focused on Bruno Gesche, he was one of the closest one and often the highest in rank. He drank a lot and Himmler tried to get rid of him several times because of that.

I never heard of Bruno before and I'm especially fascinated that he was so close to Hitler then lived until 1980 in West Germany.

[riskllama]

*reported for vivo puffing

[betiko]

Sorry I missed your post Sultan. I was pretty busy with things to do with the long restoration of our house after a fire. Also I might not be able to read. Fair enough I guess, Maybe I'm a snotty moron.

So I have been watching Hitler's Bodyguard a series on Netflix in Canader right now.

The first episode is quite amazing. A large portion of it is focused on Bruno Gesche, he was one of the closest one and often the highest in rank. He drank a lot and Himmler tried to get rid of him several times because of that.

I never heard of Bruno before and I'm especially fascinated that he was so close to Hitler then lived until 1980 in West Germany.

you know netflix series are not reality though right?
like if you watch narcos.... it's not like they ae exactly depicting reality?

[armati]

Bruno Gesche rose to the rank of lieutenant colonel * in the SS in Nazi Germany. He was a member of Adolf Hitler's entourage and the fourth commander of Hitler 's personal bodyguard for the periods June 1934 – April 1942 and December 1942 – December 1944

[armati]

Forgot to say "according to wikipedia"

Im sure the actual records of who was commanding the bodyguard are still around.

[betiko]

Armati, you don’t seem to get my point. I’m saying the stories and scenes in a netflix show are not depicting a reality, they are a narrative for a story based on historical characters and situations.

[2dimes]

I have not seen much of the Narcos series.

[betiko]

I have not seen much of the Narcos series.

well, I've seen an interview of Juan Pablo Escobar, Pablo's son, and he was like.... netflix couldn't care less about the real story. He proposed to be used as a consultant to explain certain stuff and they refused... they'd rather make a good story than a true story. He said that it was really annoying to watch a show about his family's life where nothing ever happened, well the great lines of what was news in the media, the important tv star mistress, the wars, all that was true but all the family scenes and all were absolutely made up and they didn't even want to inspire themselves from real stuff.

[2dimes]

And that taints everything on Netflix regardless of the original source?

[armati]

SultanOfSurreal Nazis were scum?

More than who?

There are many pics showing just how popular the Nazis were, try googling "nazi crowds" etc.
Some of them show people as far as the eye can see in all directions for speeches.

There were reasons they were so popular, they cleaned up Berlin for example.
In the 30s Berlin was the "anything you want sex capital" of the world, the streets were not safe, the nazis cleaned that up.

They replaced that stuff with christianity big time, the catholics (which germany is) loved that, and the nazis worked very closely with the catholic church.
Mussolini returned the vatican to italy from France, Italy and Spain were huge catholic and so was France which helped to facilitate the vichy government.

They became very powerful very quickly, either by the english banks backing them or the elimination of the central bank.
Choose your story.

Their "scumness" was no more scumish than decisions churchill made that killed millions in India or the Americans genocideing n.america for example.

Take a look at what Belgium did in the Congo.

Im not saying they were angels, Im not even saying the nazis were not "scumish", what I am saying is they were no more scumish than all those before and after them.

Remember too, the Bush family fortune came from doing business with the nazis, and they ended up presidents of the U.S.


The nazis were a socialist party, which seems to be very popular today, socialism that is.

You would be surprised just how much the nazis did for germany and alot of people think if the 2nd war never happened Hitler would have gone down as 1 of the most awesome leaders in the history of the world.

[DoomYoshi]

I prefer Notflex. betiko watches Nutflax.

[tkr4lf]

ITT we learn that armati sympathizes with the nazis. But is anyone really surprised?

[betiko]

SultanOfSurreal Nazis were scum?

More than who?

There are many pics showing just how popular the Nazis were, try googling "nazi crowds" etc.
Some of them show people as far as the eye can see in all directions for speeches.

There were reasons they were so popular, they cleaned up Berlin for example.
In the 30s Berlin was the "anything you want sex capital" of the world, the streets were not safe, the nazis cleaned that up.

They replaced that stuff with christianity big time, the catholics (which germany is) loved that, and the nazis worked very closely with the catholic church.
Mussolini returned the vatican to italy from France, Italy and Spain were huge catholic and so was France which helped to facilitate the vichy government.

They became very powerful very quickly, either by the english banks backing them or the elimination of the central bank.
Choose your story.

Their "scumness" was no more scumish than decisions churchill made that killed millions in India or the Americans genocideing n.america for example.

Take a look at what Belgium did in the Congo.

Im not saying they were angels, Im not even saying the nazis were not "scumish", what I am saying is they were no more scumish than all those before and after them.

Remember too, the Bush family fortune came from doing business with the nazis, and they ended up presidents of the U.S.


The nazis were a socialist party, which seems to be very popular today, socialism that is.

You would be surprised just how much the nazis did for germany and alot of people think if the 2nd war never happened Hitler would have gone down as 1 of the most awesome leaders in the history of the world.

lol... no point in debating with you foed and that's it. We all know how it goes... fruitless debates.

[betiko]

And that taints everything on Netflix regardless of the original source?

if you want to learn about history, watch a documentary made by historians. If you want entertainment based on true stories, watch a TV show or a movie. Even a fictional story from a book is adapted.... what do you think they do with dull reality to make it entertaining? You just can't use that material as a reference to discuss what actually happened in real life.

[DoomYoshi]

And that taints everything on Netflix regardless of the original source?

if you want to learn about history, watch a documentary made by historians. If you want entertainment based on true stories, watch a TV show or a movie. Even a fictional story from a book is adapted.... what do you think they do with dull reality to make it entertaining? You just can't use that material as a reference to discuss what actually happened in real life.

Hitler's bodyguard is a documentary...

[armati]

by tkr4lf on Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:17 am

""ITT we learn that armati sympathizes with the nazis. But is anyone really surprised?"

betiko on Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:27 pm

'Armati, you don’t seem to get my point'

Seems I am not the only person missing the point of a post.

I am in no way "sympathize" with the nazis, I simply have studied enough to understand a little of what happened.

I also understand many people prefer kool aid to the topic.
Simply accept what they are told to believe and refuse to think, in many cases.

Thats ok, all the discussion there could be would change nothing.

So true "no point in debating with you foed and that's it. We all know how it goes... fruitless debates."

By the way Whats a "foed"?

DoomYoshi your absolutely correct, watching movies and tv shows can be good entertainment but ya gotta look into things to find what actually happened or the personality of the "star" etc.

Interesting sometimes to find out what actually happened to get some scenes into the movies.

[tzor]

ITT we learn that armati sympathizes with the nazis. But is anyone really surprised?

Actually we learn that armati is exceptionally ignorant. He actually thinks Lutheran Germany was Popish. Catholics were persecuted in spite of a treaty to the contrary.

Claims of Fascist efficiency are based off of smoke and mirrors. Even the claim of the Italian despot, "He made the trains run on time," is actually not based on facts and rational thought.

Now there is a legitimate argument over whose scum is scummier. Mostly it becomes a comparison between Germany and the Soviet Union. The notion of the "Surplus Population" was something from Victorian times, but it was generally economically based, not racially based. Hitler used this as a misdirection tactic to isolate a group and have them become the scapegoat for the nation's economics problems. But then he turned it into a crusade, rounding up that group from wherever he managed to advance his forces into.

Remember this was a time of great propaganda. Everybody did it, however. I remember reading a nice little book in the library of the college I had attended. It was written just before the war started. It was all about how wonderful the League of Nations was. Oh there was that slight problem of German rearmament but they were confident that would be addressed shortly.

This becomes an interesting lesson even when looking at sources. You have to be careful to see who is fooling you and who is fooling themselves.

[tzor]

By the way Whats a "foed"?

1. take a noun "foe"
2. Make it a category ("friends" / "foes")
3. Turn the action of adding someone to that list as a verb and use the past tense "foed"

[armati]

Your right tzor, I forgot about Luther, Germany was mostly protestant in the 30s, Catholic was about 30%.
I always think of Germany as catholic, I had friends that served for Germany in the 2nd war and they were catholic.
My Canadian family, also fought in the 2nd war were protestant.

The nazis did have an agreement with the C church tho.

On July 20, 1933, the Vatican and Germany signed an agreement that set the parameters of the relationship between the Roman Catholic Church and the newly formed Nazi government.

Your persecution of the Catholics came from the 1920s and 1930s when some Catholic leaders made a number of forthright attacks on Nazi ideology.


Your right about efficiency , Germanys reputation of efficiency was not exactly accurate, just as the bumbling british was not really deserved.

People do like to debate who is the scumiest of all, but I wasnt, I was saying the nazis were no more scum than others have been thruout history. Some people do seem to focus on Germany and Russia tho.

Speaking of the "rounding up" of people, yupper sure did happen, people do tend to forget the harvaana or transfer agreement tho.
Why more people didnt take advantage of it is a story in itself.

Guess you'll just have to pardon my "exceptional ignorance" of the time period. lol
I probably have more info leaking out of my head now than going in.