The EU agrees: separatism must not be tolerated

[mrswdk]

Here comes Macron betiko to spout the official French/German line.

[Symmetry]

Here comes Macron betiko to spout the official French/German line.

Wait- you think that France and Germany have a common line? Fascinating, but this is something that you might need to describe in more detail. You don't want to seem like an idiot.

[DoomYoshi]

I guess Symmetry has never heard of Charlemagne.

[betiko]

Here comes Macron betiko to spout the official French/German line.

I live in spain you fucking dipshit. I know this country and catalans since I was 5. I know how most catalans are all about their autonomy (which they have) and their regional language; but there is a big difference between this and asking for independence. The CUP is a party of racist fucks who believe that catalans are genetically different and superior to hiberians; the people truly asking for independence are about 2,2 million out of the 10 million + catalunya has.
The referendum was anticonstitutional, and was never agreed. This needs to be talked about with the government don't you think? So when a region decides to unilaterally make a referendum for its independence (this was so badly organised that some people managed to vote 4 or 5 times) the state should just sit back and watch?

[mrswdk]

That’s true. When you don’t like the outcome of a vote, it was probably an anti-democratic vote.

[Symmetry]

I guess Symmetry has never heard of Charlemagne.

A poor guess, as usual.

[betiko]

That’s true. When you don’t like the outcome of a vote, it was probably an anti-democratic vote.

Look dude... if you call a vote where you can stuff your own ballot 5 times (some people were sending pics of themselves in various voting cabinets throwing in a new bulletin each time) democratic, or the very fact of a region disobeying the state and conducting a referendum without even agreeing on something and before discussing terms with said government...

Also, you fucking ignorant fool, do you know how spain was formed? Cataluña was at the inception of Spain. It was part of the Kingdom of Aragon and by its own will united with the kingdom of castilla.... there has never been any type of forced feudality or anything. The claim makes no sense in the first place.

[waauw]

That’s true. When you don’t like the outcome of a vote, it was probably an anti-democratic vote.

Look dude... if you call a vote where you can stuff your own ballot 5 times (some people were sending pics of themselves in various voting cabinets throwing in a new bulletin each time) democratic, or the very fact of a region disobeying the state and conducting a referendum without even agreeing on something and before discussing terms with said government...

Also, you fucking ignorant fool, do you know how spain was formed? Cataluña was at the inception of Spain. It was part of the Kingdom of Aragon and by its own will united with the kingdom of castilla.... there has never been any type of forced feudality or anything. The claim makes no sense in the first place.

mrswdk is simply bragging about how China has more experience at beating down people than Spain does, and for once I agree on that point.

[mrswdk]

That’s true. When you don’t like the outcome of a vote, it was probably an anti-democratic vote.

Look dude... if you call a vote where you can stuff your own ballot 5 times (some people were sending pics of themselves in various voting cabinets throwing in a new bulletin each time) democratic

This sounds more like a story you read in the Daily Mail comments section than a credible piece of evidence relating to the vote.

or the very fact of a region disobeying the state and conducting a referendum without even agreeing on something and before discussing terms with said government...

And within the same sentence you've already shifted from 'the vote didn't really represent Catalonians' to 'pro-unity politicians in Madrid didn't like the vote'.

Also, you fucking ignorant fool, do you know how spain was formed? Cataluña was at the inception of Spain. It was part of the Kingdom of Aragon and by its own will united with the kingdom of castilla.... there has never been any type of forced feudality or anything. The claim makes no sense in the first place.

And now you've shifted to some sort of fantasy version of this thread in which I'm arguing that Catalonians live under feudalism.

I suggest you pick your main argument, stick to that, and we'll discuss that. Right now you're all over the place.

[betiko]

i know, you sad little troll, as I live here in spain, that during the day of the voting, lots of people were actually trolling the elections and sending multiple pictures of themselves in various locations, so wether you believe it or not i don't care, it was a national sport that day and i received lots of pictures on whatapp with the same person dressed the same way showing his personal vote count with his hand with pictures taken just introducing the ballot.

Secondly, the vast majority of the voting sites had been shut down by the government to prevent this illegal referendum, which was held and counted by independentists... so if really a poll like this holds more value to you than an OT poll in here, you're just proving again how much of a moron you are.

For your last point... what historical meaning does this independence have? none. It's not based on anything. It has always been a part of a bigger kingdom between spain and genova.
They receive a lot of help from the government, receive a lot of work force from andalucia where i'm living, and it's all based on a lie... that catalans are superiors and would do better without spain. Most big companies around barcelona are now considering moving their headquarters elsewhere. They will not benefit from all their current infrastructures, economical trade agreements and all... it's just plain stupid, for stupid people like yourself who just think that looking at everything happening in the world differently (and i mean.. systematically doing it) means that you're closer to the truth.

[mrswdk]

[quote=“betiko”]what historical meaning does this independence have?[/quote]

Then I guess Macron should be stripped of his presidency because it doesn’t have ‘historical meaning’.

[betiko]

then i guess you should get stripped of your penis because it doesn't have historical meaning

[mrswdk]

Following the referendum vote for independence, the Catalan government voted by majority to declare independence and duly did so.

The Spanish federal government has reacted by firing the entire government, arresting the Catalan police chief and pushing for the Catalan prime minister to also be arrested.

The people of Catalonia need the international community. Specifically, they need a squadron of SCO Su-27s and J-10s.

[mrswdk]

[pickleofdoom]

I don´t know the specifics, so i will just comment on generalities.


It seems to me that the democratic thing to do would be to obtain some kind of mandate from the whole of the Spanish people about whether or not they wanted to change the constitution to allow for independence referendums to take place with a legal basis. Perhaps to elect some constitutional assembly such as in the much-maligned Venezuela.

I recently read an old essay by Winnicott on psychology and democracy in which he argued that a referendum was the least mature form of democratic process. I tend to agree. I see referendum campaigns even more dominated by chauvinism, cultural and even racial superiority/inferiority complexes and other infantile attitudes, even more than in party political or presidential style elections. (A seeming counterexample would be the American presidential election. However, here, another point of Winnicott is salient- that voting for a person works if there is a minimum % of the voting population who is psychologically mature and pro-social, such that they have an ability to integrate the personal and the impersonal. What we saw with Trump was a large number of people tapping into Trumpo´s pathological sense of omnipotence and by over-identifying themselves with him in an infantile way, striking some sort of blow against those who they felt inferior to. This is why the comment about "deplorables" was such an own goal- it fed into the superior-inferior dynamic which was powering the Trump phenomenon.)

Returning to the point, I think that a constitutional assembly with elected representatives, or electing a government which ran with constitutional change as a manifesto pledge, would be a better approach than a direct referendum on the constitution.

[mrswdk]

After Spain's stormtroopers overran Catalonia, beat up its voters, arrested all its leaders, declared themselves in control of the region and dissolved its parliament, the people of Catalonia have returned to the polls and delivered a solid majority victory for Catalonian independence:

Catalan pro-independence parties have held their absolute majority in snap regional elections, dealing a severe blow to the Spanish government, which had called the polls in the hope of heading off the secessionist push.

The three separatist parties won a total of 70 seats in the 135-seat regional parliament even though the centre-right, pro-unionist Citizens party was the single biggest winner, taking 36 seats.

Together for Catalonia – the party led by deposed Catalan president, Carles Puigdemont – took 34 seats, the Catalan Republican Left (ERC) took 32 and the far-left, anti-capitalist Popular Unity Candidacy took four. On Thursday night, a jubilant Puigdemont termed the results a victory for “the Catalan republic”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-in ... ll-results

The message to Madrid is clear: Catalonia is its own country and does not want to be governed by stinky, stagnant Spain. The presence of Spanish police and military in Catalonia is now an illegal occupation. NATO is needed.

[DirtyDishSoap]

i know, you sad little troll, as I live here in spain, that during the day of the voting, lots of people were actually trolling the elections and sending multiple pictures of themselves in various locations, so wether you believe it or not i don't care, it was a national sport that day and i received lots of pictures on whatapp with the same person dressed the same way showing his personal vote count with his hand with pictures taken just introducing the ballot.

Secondly, the vast majority of the voting sites had been shut down by the government to prevent this illegal referendum, which was held and counted by independentists... so if really a poll like this holds more value to you than an OT poll in here, you're just proving again how much of a moron you are.

For your last point... what historical meaning does this independence have? none. It's not based on anything. It has always been a part of a bigger kingdom between spain and genova.
They receive a lot of help from the government, receive a lot of work force from andalucia where i'm living, and it's all based on a lie... that catalans are superiors and would do better without spain. Most big companies around barcelona are now considering moving their headquarters elsewhere. They will not benefit from all their current infrastructures, economical trade agreements and all... it's just plain stupid, for stupid people like yourself who just think that looking at everything happening in the world differently (and i mean.. systematically doing it) means that you're closer to the truth.

Arguing with the Chinese fan boy will get you nowhere.
Facts? Pft. He'll just scream and rave about nonsensical garbage.
Your best bet is to just ignore him. Like an imaginary being, stop believing they exist and they eventually wither and die.

Help me, children of CC! If we just ignore him, he'll go away!