Balance Not Included Come Back Mafia End Game: Mod Down!!!

[DirtyDishSoap]

He would know who visited the target.* Sorry.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Wait, why do you think he had your role for the night? =/ This is super confusing, guys.

See, I thought originally that he had taken my role.

For simplicity sake, let's sak Dakky is a tracker. Standard procedure is to get a result of [name] visited [name].

Also DDS you said: " When it should simply say "Nag visited your target." Not "Nag visited Samlen." "

I think Nag was his target, not Sam :p

In any case, this isn't worth our time at the moment; and this distraction is part why I distrusted DJ bringing the whole thing up again.

But right here, we were assuming Dakky was a tracker. He never mentioned himself being a test subject.

What did Dakky claim happened? He claimed he targeted DDS. His result was that Nag visited Samlen. HENCE my theory that a redirector chose Dakky, and changed Dakky's target to Nag. If Dakky was selected by a redirector he NEVER visited DDS in the first place. It's such a simple and logical explanation for what happened I don't get why it's being treated as so outlandish and somehow your idea of role ability swaps and other nonsense is more likely.
You know what else helps my theory? The fact that when someone here posted a list of roles that were not randomly selected in the last balance mafia game the role redirector *was on that list* which makes it quite reasonable to find that role in this game considering multiple roles on that list have been claimed in this game already. All the evidence suggest my theory is the best and most likely one. You don't have to like my theory but the idea that mine is somehow ridiculous is preposterous.

Right here we're assuming that Dakky was redirected from targeting me, no indication that he took my role, nor was there any indication whatsoever that he was a test subject. He basically ran with it and claimed tracker earlier.

I targeted you and got the result that Nag visited Samlen... paraphrasing to avoid a quote is similar. I guessed you are a watcher or something like that and you targeted Samlen, but as you say you targeted Legion so that means we were all shifted around with actions... lol... not good.

I got a message (with interfering action) that I seen Nag visit Samlen while targeting you. So that must mean you are a watcher who targeted Samlen and not Legion. How else could I get your results instead of mine unless all actions were shifted? I guess it's only possible that I targeted you and someone switched your target (Legion if you're saying the truth) with Samlen. Someone else targeted me and possibly switched my action with a roleblock, resulting in your blocking and me seeing who you did not target. So that's why I said everything was weird.

This is the most damning and confusing post he's made in this entire game in my opinion, and to me, a complete slip in his story.
I'm having a hard time swallowing that Dakky isn't scum at this point after looking this over and over, so with that.

Vote Dakky

[DirtyDishSoap]

Alarm clock was a roleblock ability with an ability to exchange it with the target role. So I targeted DDS and he got roleblocked while I seen Nag visit Samlen. So that means DDS was roleblocked while I got his role and his target. At least I guess it was like that.

Alright, sorry for quad posting but I wanted to quote this too before my shift changed.

This basically throws the redirect thing out the window. If he were to target me for a gift AND get my role, wouldn't the more likely scenario be that he was directed to Samlen, gifted him and received his action? Im a watcher, he would see that Nag visted Samlen because he chose it, I didn't target Sam, and nor Nag because I'm not a tracker. I know damn well that I wasn't redirected either thanks to Legion confirming the role block.

The story doesn't add up, one bit.

[Metsfanmax]

DDS, this is complicated and I am having a hard time following the argument. Can you please lay out in simple terms what you think happened that night, and where specifically you think dakky's story goes astray?

[legionnare]

This is making my head hurt and will take me some time to figure something out.

[DirtyDishSoap]

DDS, this is complicated and I am having a hard time following the argument. Can you please lay out in simple terms what you think happened that night, and where specifically you think dakky's story goes astray?

So basically what it it amounts to is this.

Before Legion answers, I targeted him for the night and my action was changed to a role block.
Paraphrasing here to avoid a quote, but "Your action was interfered and is now changed to a block for the night and applies to the target."

This is getting really weird.

I targeted you and got the result that Nag visited Samlen... paraphrasing to avoid a quote is similar. I guessed you are a watcher or something like that and you targeted Samlen, but as you say you targeted Legion so that means we were all shifted around with actions... lol... not good.

During D3, my action was interfered, I role blocked legion instead of watching who visited him. During that time, Dakky was claiming that he was targeting me instead of (Skoffin says Nag) Samlen and got the night action that Nag visited Sam. Cool, but that would require in picking a target, which the whole premise was was that he was redirected. As I said, I'm a watcher, I wouldn't know who my target is BUT I would know who visited the target, and we've all established since I've asked about it, that I wouldn't know if I was bussed or redirected. And that would be it. If he was targeting me, and received my role, he chose Samlen. We originally thought he was a tracker, not a test subject. That's fine and dandy, but why exactly lie or at the very least, make it very clear that he had taken my role, instead of making us run around in circles with this redirect role? We were all mass claiming at that point to try and determine who exactly is what, that information to me, would have been somewhat crucial. So at this point, I think we can confirm that there isn't a bus or a redirect. There hasn't been any indication that there is, and he's basically confirming that now. He literally could have said nothing and we would have been none the wiser for it, so I'm baffled as to why he was intent on getting a redirect role in our heads D3.

Nag earlier claimed that I should treat that roleblock as hostile. And I am. Why target the Watcher? He even states "I guessed you are a watcher" I think there's more to it than "not knowing" what exactly that gift does. It'd be the same thing as targeting Legion. Risky play to target Legion because he could potentially role block scum. If I were scum, and I was receiving this overpowered gift, you're damn right I'm targeting a watcher claim who will more than likely be watching Legion. If you don't know what these gifts do, wouldn't it be a little bit better to target anyone other than the only two people who claimed? Nevermind that Legion role blocked me the next day. It was a weird day and I made a weird claim, but at least Dakky came forward with the next day. Why? I have no idea, but everything up until this point he's been either lurking, or making the day's exponentially more confusing than they needed to be.

Anyone following my train of thought here as of yet? I think he's purposefully trying to make the town run in circles and getting us nowhere. His N2 action to me was hostile. His D3 explanations didn't serve any purpose other than cost us time and have us run around in circles. It's horribly scummy.

[Skoffin]

I get what you are saying, hence my previous post towards dakky; I want him to be very careful in how he answers so we know what is actually going on. There is a vast difference between "I know this is what happened because of x info I have" and "I'm guessing this is what happened from what's been said". The previous days it appeared that he did not know what happened, whereas know it seems like he he saying that he does know what happened and it had more info in his PM's then he let on. But the fact that he keeps saying the words "I guess" is throwing me off. Dakky needs to explain himself thoroughly.

[Djfireside]

I am in agreement with Skoffin at this point. I had an issue with this when it first came up and now it seems to have come back around full circle and want to get more details on this as others do.

As for the note on Mets and Dakky, I am in agreement that one could be scum and one could be town. I played it back out in my head and see that however what I was trying to note there is that if Dakky is not the Test Subject then Mets is not who they say they are. much the same with Chu moreover Skoffin. If chu turns scum then skoffin is by association


While we are waiting on Dakky, What other gifts are there Mets? I know you dont know what they do but what are they named.

[Metsfanmax]

I do not see the utility in describing what gifts remain, so I will not do so unless someone provides a good reason for me to.

[dakky21]

I think I already explained myself thoroughly... I don't know what else to say, I can take guesses as how the actions worked and if there were some hidden properties in those items which I'm not aware of... so yeah I GUESS they worked like I wrote already and I really don't have anything to add... Except that really Chu and Skoff are working together.

[Skoffin]

Dakky, can you just answer yes or no to the following question: At any point, when you received the alarm clock and after using it, did you ever get any info that stated anything about 'roleblocks''?

[Skoffin]

So... we're going to quickly run out of time to do anything, so in the spirit of moving things along;

Can everyone list what their opinions of each player is? And what made you think that way, evidence etc. Please state who your top 3 suspects are.
At least that will gave us a base to work off as we'll be able to see where we have a consensus and start there.

[Skoffin]

I do not see the utility in describing what gifts remain, so I will not do so unless someone provides a good reason for me to.

You do not know what the gifts do, correct? So you would not be able to corroborate dakky, but then naming what the gifts are wouldn't hurt anything as we cannot deduce what they do from the name to begin with.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I still do not buy into dakky. He's at the top of my list as of right now.

Mets has came 2nd, mainly due to the Ragian incident of him being a double voter and what I think was him attempting to get the heat off of Ragian. His playstyle just seems scummish to me. Plays too much on the fence and isn't wholly contributing anything other than debating the occasional theory. (Incoming the OMGUS comment.)

Nag or Dj is my third. Mostly due to the roles. One is basically a beefed version of bodyguard and the other is doc. I think we can better determine if they have been preventing night kills if we were given a table of night actions. Though I'm more inclined to believe DJ's role then I am of Nags. Im not sure if he's caught anyones action that would warrant any sort of proof outside of catching a gift.

My response is probably half assed. Hard to type this out on my cell.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I'd like to hear from the rest though. Legion, Dj, Nag, chu

[Fircoal]

I think I already explained myself thoroughly... I don't know what else to say, I can take guesses as how the actions worked and if there were some hidden properties in those items which I'm not aware of... so yeah I GUESS they worked like I wrote already and I really don't have anything to add... Except that really Chu and Skoff are working together.

You can tell us what you were told. At this point I doubt there is any information that town needs to be kept secret. So either tell us everything that you know to the best of your ability or suffer the consequences. Give us what you were given, if you're town you have nothing to hide. Don't half ass this. Because right now it seems like you're trying to hide something and that isn't in the interests of the town.

So... we're going to quickly run out of time to do anything, so in the spirit of moving things along;

Can everyone list what their opinions of each player is? And what made you think that way, evidence etc. Please state who your top 3 suspects are.
At least that will gave us a base to work off as we'll be able to see where we have a consensus and start there.

Dakky is the top of my list due to me feeling like he is hiding something with his answers. If he's town he needs to tell us everything he knows or else he's doing town a disservice. And the only people who want to do that are scum.

Legion is town, I'm inclined to believe you are as well. Nag drifts more towards town due to his actions in the game so far. While I am suspicious of DDS (and Mets to a lesser degree), I have a hard time believing either of them are allied with Dakky. DJ is also a choice and probably the one I'd pick if Dakky is scum.

So I'd say my top choice is Dakky, afterwards it's DDS, and then DJ.

I'd like to hear from the rest though. Legion, Dj, Nag, chu

Hey I've been posting.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Lies, all of it.

I luv u <3

[Metsfanmax]

I do not see the utility in describing what gifts remain, so I will not do so unless someone provides a good reason for me to.

You do not know what the gifts do, correct? So you would not be able to corroborate dakky, but then naming what the gifts are wouldn't hurt anything as we cannot deduce what they do from the name to begin with.

I believe that naming them would hurt because it would indicate to mafia how many gifts I have left, and therefore help them prioritize whether to target me or not. I am not interested in doing scum a favor.

[Skoffin]

I do not see the utility in describing what gifts remain, so I will not do so unless someone provides a good reason for me to.

You do not know what the gifts do, correct? So you would not be able to corroborate dakky, but then naming what the gifts are wouldn't hurt anything as we cannot deduce what they do from the name to begin with.

I believe that naming them would hurt because it would indicate to mafia how many gifts I have left, and therefore help them prioritize whether to target me or not. I am not interested in doing scum a favor.

I don't see how it will make any real difference. If they think you are a threat they'll target regardless, and to be honest it would actually be better for town if you were targeted tonight by scum as it would greatly help determine who the actual scum are. But I don't think you are getting targeted for a night kill either way, so you don't help nor hinder scum in anyway but you limit town knowledge.

[Metsfanmax]

I do not see the utility in describing what gifts remain, so I will not do so unless someone provides a good reason for me to.

You do not know what the gifts do, correct? So you would not be able to corroborate dakky, but then naming what the gifts are wouldn't hurt anything as we cannot deduce what they do from the name to begin with.

I believe that naming them would hurt because it would indicate to mafia how many gifts I have left, and therefore help them prioritize whether to target me or not. I am not interested in doing scum a favor.

I don't see how it will make any real difference. If they think you are a threat they'll target regardless, and to be honest it would actually be better for town if you were targeted tonight by scum as it would greatly help determine who the actual scum are. But I don't think you are getting targeted for a night kill either way, so you don't help nor hinder scum in anyway but you limit town knowledge.

If I were to reveal that I had no gifts left, they would no longer think I was a threat.

[nagerous]

Ugh I am sorry for not posting in a while. No one else seems to find skoffin particularly scummy in her play - remember activity doesn't necessarily mean pro-Towness. I think one of mets/dakky is likely to be scum but not sure which at the moment.

Everyone else in the game there is at least a little bit of evidence that suggests they didn't make th NK or are town so I would be only willing to put a vote behind one of the three above at this moment in time

[DirtyDishSoap]

Ugh I am sorry for not posting in a while. No one else seems to find skoffin particularly scummy in her play - remember activity doesn't necessarily mean pro-Towness. I think one of mets/dakky is likely to be scum but not sure which at the moment.

Everyone else in the game there is at least a little bit of evidence that suggests they didn't make th NK or are town so I would be only willing to put a vote behind one of the three above at this moment in time

That's the issue here. The activity has been low throughout the entire game. It's hard to determine who is and isn't scum based off of activity. I understand the reasoning of the activity and pro-town feel you get from her, but honestly she's the only one attempting to get the ball rolling. I'm also more inclined to believe her because A. Why defend Sam against just about everyone end of the day? and B. Most if not all of her posts suggest she's town.

Hell, I applaud her honestly for keeping this alive and trying to figure things out. It sucks also because the only other confirmed town we have has been near inactive.

[Skoffin]

Nag, I really don't get what you find scummy about my play. I'm also interested in particular reasons as to why mets or dakky might be scum.
no, activity alone isn't a sign of towniness - but I do think it should be a contributing factor in showing what side I am on considering scum could literally just wait the day out and let the town no lynch due to inertia.

And i think people missed the point of my exercise, I wanted people to give an opinion on EVERY player in the game - not just to see where we stand and generate discussion, but because it forces the scum team to have to publicly state opinions on players and it will make it trickier for them as they will have to choose to either name all townies as scum or bus their partner.

[dakky21]

Dakky, can you just answer yes or no to the following question: At any point, when you received the alarm clock and after using it, did you ever get any info that stated anything about 'roleblocks''?

No, the roleblock was not mentioned in a Alarm clock description, but the description said it has other unknown properties. So for the 5th (or which it is) time I'm guessing the unknown property was a roleblock.

[Fircoal]

Dakky, can you just answer yes or no to the following question: At any point, when you received the alarm clock and after using it, did you ever get any info that stated anything about 'roleblocks''?

No, the roleblock was not mentioned in a Alarm clock description, but the description said it has other unknown properties. So for the 5th (or which it is) time I'm guessing the unknown property was a roleblock.

What specifically did it mention that it would do?