Civilization Mafia - Town Victory!

[madmitch]

unvote since everyone agrees with Nag,

[Samlen]

True. Though it'd be awkward if I investigated someone who died again... I'll just hope that someone else secretly built a spy network and is using it better than I am.

[Ragian]

So maybe we should be voting you instead? If you're scum, perhaps ga7 is scum too?

[ga7]

Sorry to hear that Strike, get well soon!
Ragian, I'm fine with your theory as long as we start with Samlen, I didn't ask for that clearance That would be a weird action to fakeclaim anyway, I mean, I could see a scenario where a scum would claim to clear a townie to gain their trust but the way it happened I don't really think that's the case. The fact is, both Samlen & me visited Tim so that makes me more suspicious of him though, cause unless Masket made me a walking PGO and didn't tell me that's not on me
I have a couple of ideas that I hope to expand on tonight, but first of all:
Nag, from what you reposted about Masket's PM, I gather two people still were supposed to have visited you tonight right? Unless I'm missing something, that means scum targeted you since no one claimed such action?
Masket, could you please clarify if:
-you tell people when their action is unsuccessful regardless of the type of action
-you give scum the choice of who makes the kill in your games?

Werk, more to comeeeee

[ga7]

Also, I don't think anyone has a vote right now but it would be good to have more frequent updates on how we stand on the countdown, cause I have no idea and that kinda screwed us in the previous day.

[madmitch]

@Samlen ,you said you built a spy agency,what powers did it grant you or who are you? I looked up spy and seen mafia traitor, are you saying you are a cop now? I am just trying to figure out the roles connected to the buildings to see if they all are the same or not,my thoughts are: lodge=tracker,arsenal=gunsmith, brothel=hooker,lighthouse=watcher,bunker=survivor,or hider , so am I close guys ? we got to work together to get the mafia scum.

[strike wolf]

Okay whIle my fever is down and before my pain meds kick back in, I'll post real quick

The people I want to look at in order:

1. Sam-he suggested buildings first but considering it is a known mechanic of the actual Civ game, it is a possible guess. I forget if he was the first one to mention spy network or not. May change my opinion a little if he was.
2. Chu-he was firm on the Benga Lynch and seems to have behavEd mostly town ish but there are a couple question marks especially as it seems others who are suspicious we have reason to clear. I don't agree with Nag's that scum have fake claims (or at least good fake claims) but he could have gambled on not being counter claimed.
3. Dakky-in terms of actions he is the scummiest but could not have sent in N1 or N4 kill. Visited night kill target N3. I would agree it seems unlikely he'd choose Tim but Tim seems like an unlikely target for any scum. I think he's still warring with me.
4. Skittles- I want to say something cleared him but I don't remember what so I'll leave him there.
5. Ga-this really only applies as a maybe if Sam was to flip scum but I find it unlikely right now that he is actually scum.

Everyone else has pretty much proven their towniness in someway so I am not considering them.

[Samlen]

@Samlen ,you said you built a spy agency,what powers did it grant you or who are you? I looked up spy and seen mafia traitor, are you saying you are a cop now? I am just trying to figure out the roles connected to the buildings to see if they all are the same or not,my thoughts are: lodge=tracker,arsenal=gunsmith, brothel=hooker,lighthouse=watcher,bunker=survivor,or hider , so am I close guys ? we got to work together to get the mafia scum.

Yes it gives cop powers. And the bunker lets you survive visiting nuke crazy Gandhi, aka, nagerous.

[Skittles!]

4. Skittles- I want to say something cleared him but I don't remember what so I'll leave him there.

Everyone else has pretty much proven their towniness in someway so I am not considering them.

I would like to imagine my townness has been proven numerous times. Almost every one of my night actions has been verified by different players each night, and I have been forthright with those actions themselves.

I know you like to simplify people's games in dot points, so can you simplify your own game and what makes you a proven town? I am still suspicious of you even if others aren't. Your constant need to remind people that you are town have always struck me as odd.

[Skittles!]

4. Skittles- I want to say something cleared him but I don't remember what so I'll leave him there.

Everyone else has pretty much proven their towniness in someway so I am not considering them.

I would like to imagine my townness has been proven numerous times. Almost every one of my night actions has been verified by different players each night, and I have been forthright with those actions themselves.

I know you like to simplify people's games in dot points, so can you simplify your own game and what makes you a proven town? I am still suspicious of you even if others aren't. Your constant need to remind people that you are town have always struck me as odd.

EBWOP: Highly ironic I say that last statement in a post where I defend my townness lol. But the way you do it throughout your posts even if no one is doubting you casts you in a different light IMO.

Also could everyone make a list of people they think is the most possible scum? We should all go back and reread everyone's game, see if there have been any slips.

[dakky21]

3. Dakky-in terms of actions he is the scummiest but could not have sent in N1 or N4 kill. Visited night kill target N3. I would agree it seems unlikely he'd choose Tim but Tim seems like an unlikely target for any scum. I think he's still warring with me.

Nope, war lasts one night only. May start another war today if it becomes necessary (with you or someone else).

[ga7]

Nope, war lasts one night only. May start another war today if it becomes necessary (with you or someone else).

Look at this brave townie threatening war again any who dares suspect him!
I know you couldn't have killed but I also agree that 2 scum left are more likely, you're still the scummiest to me.

Just for convenience, I'll repost the night actions but it would be helpful if you do a new table Chu, make yourself useful you fake aztec

So night four -

Strike - no action possible (all but confirmed)
Dakky - no action possible ( all but confirmed)
Ga7 - role blocked tim
Samlen - investigated tim
Nag - checked tim for gun (confirmed gun holder)
Skittles - role blocked strike
Mitch - watched strike (confirms skittles visit) - I would say this testimony clears skittles
Fircoal added: watched Ragian, saw Tim
Rag added: checked Skittles for gun (none)

Right now I only trust 100% to be town Mitch, Nag & Skittles. Mitch for obvious day 1 townslip, Nag because of benga case and I don't think he would have told us his newfound PGO powers if he had changed alignment, Skittles for consistently checked night actions.
I still think dakky is way too fishy, but I would rather catch the scum that we know killed last night right now.
I was starting to think last day that maybe scum or another anti town faction could build etc but the scene seems to be strongly hinting at just barbarians:

For the hordes still lurking undiscovered, this was a worrying sign, and they quickly targeting one of the nations about to become a New World superpower...

He said I would have explaining if two people died tonight. I totally skim read that and that is good because he didn't breach moderator rules by telling me unsolicited information. Sorry MM I am a twat. Anyway I have explaining to do regardless as I am in the night scene looking all scummy

Ugh... I don't think Tim targeted me now - nor anyone it seems (apart from maybe Rag from his bunker) no NUKES for you MM.

I think I completely misread that, does it mean Masket just told you not to be surprised that there could be 2 NKs and not that people visiting you would die?

mandy get out of this body

Double post, but I feel like posting my thoughts now.


My first thought is scum may have had fake claims. In a game with limited choices we can say it is reasonably likely that mafia are given fake claims - with all the role claims out there it seems even more likely.

We know that benga successfully claimed Celts without a counter claim. Then later in the game we had Hotshot who declared himself to be "Montezuma II of Aztec, a third party survivor just trying to stay out of the way of all you warmongering countries on the other side of the ocean."

I am not being funny but what kind of crazy claim is that? It sounds like he wanted to be caught out with his crazy lie as part of a plan. Now I am thinking this may have been either Fircoal or Hotshot's fake claim given to him. At this point, hotshot was toast. He had been role blocked, there had been no death, he had scummily hammered aage, he had scummily defended benga. There was no way he wasn't getting lynched that day phase.

Now I reckon that in the night him and Fircoal devised a plan, Hotshot would claim the leader of the Aztecs, Fircoal would counterclaim, Hotshot would get lynched and Fircoal would look insta-town. A great plan.


The supporting evidence to this theory on Fircoal is that Fircoal is always the last to provide his night actions. This makes them easily manipulated to base around the other night actions. Meanwhile he is ultra helpful by putting them all in a nice chart whilst we all run rings around each other This happened in the last day phase, today he has conveniently not provided his action again, looking like he'll be the last to update us all.

I understand this is a little out there but even if people don't want to lynch Fircoal based around my mandy-esque theory I would appreciate it if anyone with a Spy Network checked him out in the next night phase. Gandhi welcomes anyone to come to his civilisation with their spies hiding in a bunker too FYI

I think scum likely either didn't have fake claims or had lousy/partial ones since both benga & Hotshot had no idea about mechanics. It's hard to know if Hotshot had a fakeclaim and decided not to use it or just claimed randomly... But I do love the theory, it's a pretty awesome plan
Instead of spying maybe Chu could do something else than watching someone next night, I feel like this would be enough for me, especially because he was adamant on benga also. It's not the only lighthouse in the world, man. It does make sense to use the power that way in any case.
The whole thing made me notice something though, dyou know who has always posted his actions last, even after Chu, on both occasions? Ragian.

N1: Bunker
N2: Arsenal

@Ga7, how have you used your bunker?

What else do you want from me? I did indeed check if dakky has a gun.

He was the third person to have claimed that action after Nag & Tim.

Yeah, tough weekend.

Anyway, I checked if skittles! has a gun. He hadn't as of last night.

I pointed to a discrepancy D4. Did we clear that up? I can't remember anything

Admittedly it's a bit tougher to fake that action BUT argh I lost the post from the previous day, wasn't he supposed to check someone else? The whole thing seems fishy.

[Skittles!]

Actually Ga, you just picked the most useful slip by Ragian. I'm on mobile so I won't quote you, but Ragian asked you how you used your bunker. As a number of us know by now, you cannot actually use the bunker, it is a passive ability to help town visit nuke happy nag.

vote Ragian

[nagerous]

Skittles by ragian saying you don't have a gun - I am presuming you haven't built an Arsenal? I found out that Tim had a gun so it would suggest Arsenal builders carry guns... By this logic if skittles confirms that he hasn't built an Arsenal then ragian's night action looks legit and he wasn't scum.

Also ragian claimed the Greeks, one of the earlier guys to claim and no one countered. People seem convinced there are no scum fake claims, but I think Greeks are likely to be high up on the list of civilisations within the game so more inclined to trust ragian.

I also think if there were fake claims we could've seen a counter-claim.

In terms of the wheel of likely civilisations in the game I see as Romans, Greeks, Americans and Egyptians as very strong claims and Persians, Spanish, Japanese and Aztecs less so. However, I have quite a lot of faith now in the three that claimed Persian, Spanish and Japanese which is now why my suspicions point towards Fircoal and the Aztecs (though Aztecs were in the original civ 1 which I grew up with)


Masket mentioned it to me ga7 in a private conversation in passing, he basically said I would have explaining to do if at least two people died through targeting me in the night (maybe planning to troll me in the night scene I don't know ) . I misread that initially to think two people had died targeting me with their night actions which is why I was surprised to see only one night death, but I realise now that I had read that wrong. He had also PMed me explaining my role development based on the era change, basically if I am targeted at night the person who targets me dies unless they have built the bunker then they are safe.

[nagerous]

But I don't know about Fircoal, I was convinced about his township from day one activity as he was the main guy who backed my benga case first. Maybe he chose to bus his scum partner guy really early for being newbish which seems a bit harsh, maybe that's why I wasn't targeted in the night too but likes of wing/skoffin were because I had a lot of faith and trust in him.

[Skittles!]

Skittles by ragian saying you don't have a gun - I am presuming you haven't built an Arsenal? I found out that Tim had a gun so it would suggest Arsenal builders carry guns... By this logic if skittles confirms that he hasn't built an Arsenal then ragian's night action looks legit and he wasn't scum.

Not exactly sure why you're deflecting here, nag. I didn't mention the arsenal, I mentioned the bunker. You yourself have stated what the purpose of the bunker is, and Ragian asked ga7

Ga7, how have you used your bunker?

That is a slip because the purpose of the bunker is a passive role and cannot be actively used unless targeting you at night.

For full disclosure, I have not yet built an arsenal but I started last night IIRC. Masket actually stuffed up my buildings for one or two nights, which has put me on the back foot of building all the 1 night buildings. I built a brothel N1, and wanted to build a lighthouse N2, but did not get a PM back about it until D4 or something (I can double check my inbox later to verify this). Hence I had to use roleblock again, and have just decided to keep roleblocking because everyone else was using their other abilities.

Has anyone actually checked Ragian at night? Going by fircoal's (outdated) chart, then no. I don't remember if anyone else has mentioned them looking for him, BUT if he does turn out to be scum I would be looking into them too.

Not sure why you think Greeks are a more believable claim than the Spanish TBH, they are on similar par IMO.

[Ragian]

Don't pick low hanging fruits, skittles. I asked because I knew very well that it's a passive action. I was wary of Ga7 and asked a trick question. You've played a solid game so far. Don't ruin that.

I think the following two are the most scummy (with Dakky a possible third for being overly concerned with surviving rather than working for the greater town good):
Samlen - also visited the deceased.
Strike - I agree with skittles's assessment.

Now, it was proposed that I entered a three way action with Nag and someone else D4, but it was only a proposition. If you want to see not following day coordinated night actions as scummy, you won't get far in mafia, I feel, as scum might tamper with this making several people look bad.

If everyone feels annoyed that I, apparently, add my actions last, then wait. I'm not here all the time. Just have me go first. Surely, you ought to blame yourselves for that.

[strike wolf]

Skittles, first Rage claimed arsenal, the fact that Nag hasn't called him out on this supports that it is what leads to gun investigations and thus increases Rage town factor. Second, what Rage said is actually pretty close to what I got about the bunker when I questioned Masket after not hearing anything about it after day 2. The difference is that I got the message that it's a passive ability that I would know about at a later age. Rage seemed to know about the later age but it's unclear what else Masket told him about the bunker. Rage could have stolen the later age line from me as I had said it first however he had claimed the bunker which was the same building I had built. Between being right on the Arsenal and Bunker that puts Rage in a pretty positive town light.

However if you aren't convinced, think about the context of how Rage made the comment you say is a slip. He was calling out Ga on a perceived discrepancy. With GA cop investigated, it would be a pretty big risk for scum to try to counter him.

[Skittles!]

Touche, Rage and Strike. I will unvote. I'll concede I am jumping through some hoops in order to get some scum. I am worried about the countdown mechanic and also with how many days/nights we have until scum win.

Rage - I agree about samlen. I have done a bit of re-reading and I found it very odd that when the hotshot bandwagon was going on (and it was very apparent that Hotshot was scum), sam comes out with this

I finished my building last night so I "technically" don't know what it does yet, but I can make a pretty good guess and should have something by tomorrow. Hotshot wagon still feels weird but my instinct was wrong yesterday so I'll try and get reread.

Just seemed odd to me. To be fair, once fircoal counter-claimed, he was one of the first to jump on the bandwagon. They were also on the aage bandwagon, late to benga (whereas I didn't vote at all). Added onto the fact that samlen was the person to put forth the idea of mass claiming, but was not the first person to claim. They mention their character, but it was the wrong character (It is Augustus Caesar in Civ 5, not Julius, but it's truly nitpicking.)
I don't know, there's lots of pros and possible cons about samlen. He's been very forthright about building a spy network, but he had actually visited someone that was killed at night.

As for strike, once again, still standing by what I say. Throughout the game you have tried to cast doubt and suspicion my way even though I have been doing my best to be helpful to town. I don't get it, I can only think that it's to try and get people to vote for me and get pressure off your back.

[Samlen]

They mention their character, but it was the wrong character (It is Augustus Caesar in Civ 5, not Julius, but it's truly nitpicking.)
I don't know, there's lots of pros and possible cons about samlen. He's been very forthright about building a spy network, but he had actually visited someone that was killed at night.

Weird it seems that google has failed me. My reverse image search said best guess was julius caeser civ V but if I look a couple links underneath it it says augustus... would never have known if you hadn't pointed it out. As for investigating Tim, he seemed suspicious and I didn't think that he would've been targeted for a kill last night \o/

[ga7]

Yeah the bunker slip was resolved I thought, reading from that original post: https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 5#p4907265
I did think it looked like fishing but I also don't think it proves towniness as I'm not sure if it was really the first mention of bunker passivity. I'm starting to think about rereading and trying to pay attention to "first mentions" but that sounds like it will take too much time. Instead I'll believe in the next crazy theory I think

[nagerous]

Just highlighting the discrepancies here:

Night 2 -

Skittles - blocked ga7
Tim - tracked ga7 (unsuccessful)
Fircoal - watched Ga7 (Skittles, Tim visited)

Night 4 -

ga7- blocked Tim
Fircoal - watched Ragian (Tim visited)


From what fircoal is saying it sounds like the roleblock isn't working or that people still visit their targets in the night even if roleblocked. The roleblock construction confirms it works on other civilisations as per the PM. However, why was Tim's tracking described as unsuccessful rather than just going nowhere ? I still think that would imply he was roleblocked himself.

[Minister Masket]

Masket, could you please clarify if:
-you tell people when their action is unsuccessful regardless of the type of action
-you give scum the choice of who makes the kill in your games?

(1) I have been doing that yes, although I can't completely rule out missing it a few times early on if it happened. My Inbox was a complete mess before i started the game and I regret not clearing it out then (rather than during the first few phases). This is also partially the reason why I missed a few building requests, so apologies for that.
(2) Hmm...I realise that by counter-questioning this I'm also by extension answering it, but meh, surely scum always have the choice on who to kill? I've never hosted a game that used otherwise.

[Ragian]

Welp...I'm lost. My guts tell me to lynch someone who has visited a deceased on the night of the death. That would be dakky or Samlen.

[ga7]

Masket:
1-Ok, thanks. Still leaves me in the dark but that explains at least N2.
2-I meant if they pick which of the scum does the NK action, not who they target?