Trump's Impeachment (Official Thread)

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I'm skeptical that any president has direct influence on economic statistics. If you want me to believe Obama singlehandedly raised the DOW Jones 10k points, or reduced unemployment 2%, etc etc, you'll have to point to legislation he passed or caused to be passed which demonstrates this, rather than it being more likely that that's the natural order of market recovery after a crash (like in 2008). In fact, wikipedia says the crash was due to the defaulting of subprime mortgages allowed through the Community Reinvestment Act, a bill passed by a Democrat majority House and Senate in '77, signed by Carter, with a repealing of the Glass-Steagall act under Clinton's tenure. I'm sure patches could elaborate more.

Saying Obama was responsible for the recovery is like saying I cured my gf from a cold when I gave her chicken soup, when really it was the bedrest and natural tendency of the body to heal. He just happened to be in office at the time.

I'm more concerned that Obama continually worked to destroy Fourth Amendment rights, committed crimes while in office by killing U.S. citizens without a trial, contributed to the expansion of American military belligerence (the same if not more so than Bush), etc etc.

But sure, I'm glad my mother was able to get insurance which was slightly cheaper and provided about the same level of service, but which she had to fudge the numbers (upwards) to qualify for.

-TG

Which is all well and good, but you're quibbling now. Obama left the country in better shape than he found it in. Which was what you asked for.

And when I left my house this morning it was later than when I woke up.

Obama left the U.S. in better shape?

Are you high?

-TG

Sure he did-

I'm skeptical that any president has direct influence on economic statistics.

TG, Take a look at that again.

This is what I've been trying to say. All of you are being illogical, and making fools out of yourselves.

Regardless of what this exchange proves, the arguments you're coming up with to defend Trump continue to get lamer and lamer. Why do you guys put yourselves in this position? This is not left vs right, at least not for me. You know there are center parties in other countries.

Earlier you said "nasty" means spiteful, I doubt Trump was referring to that meaning, and you discharged against those who turned it into an argument, and later you labeled Trump as a clown. Can you use a more softer adjective for what he's doing? Again, it's not what this "nasty" business proves, but the argumentation.

This is insane. There's a portion of the population of the US that wants to go backwards in many things, and maybe you're not one of them, but certainly leaving Trump in power encourages those xtratabascos. I do not like the exaggeration in PC either, but certain things cross the line, and you can quickly see when a person is meaning harm.

1) I'm not defending Trump, I'm attacking the blind faith of party politics. 2) That is indeed what Trump meant, he replied that during one of the debates. From CNN:

"My Social Security payroll contribution will go up, as will Donald's, assuming he can't figure out how to get out of it," Clinton said.
"Such a nasty woman," Trump said into the microphone while Clinton was talking.

At no point does that come across as misogynistic, yet it's been seized upon as a call to arms to paint Trump as such. Maybe he is, I don't know, but I'm more concerned that this (actual) misappropriation is used in a false manner. There are plenty of other instances to use, like his alleged history of inappropriate behavior with women, than to resort to putting words in his mouth he didn't say.

It's like a cop planting evidence onto a criminal. I don't give a shit if the criminal is guilty, prove he's guilty through process of law, not by bringing false evidence against him. I don't think that's illogical. It may be foolish.

-TG

[Symmetry]

I'm skeptical that any president has direct influence on economic statistics. If you want me to believe Obama singlehandedly raised the DOW Jones 10k points, or reduced unemployment 2%, etc etc, you'll have to point to legislation he passed or caused to be passed which demonstrates this, rather than it being more likely that that's the natural order of market recovery after a crash (like in 2008). In fact, wikipedia says the crash was due to the defaulting of subprime mortgages allowed through the Community Reinvestment Act, a bill passed by a Democrat majority House and Senate in '77, signed by Carter, with a repealing of the Glass-Steagall act under Clinton's tenure. I'm sure patches could elaborate more.

Saying Obama was responsible for the recovery is like saying I cured my gf from a cold when I gave her chicken soup, when really it was the bedrest and natural tendency of the body to heal. He just happened to be in office at the time.

I'm more concerned that Obama continually worked to destroy Fourth Amendment rights, committed crimes while in office by killing U.S. citizens without a trial, contributed to the expansion of American military belligerence (the same if not more so than Bush), etc etc.

But sure, I'm glad my mother was able to get insurance which was slightly cheaper and provided about the same level of service, but which she had to fudge the numbers (upwards) to qualify for.

-TG

Which is all well and good, but you're quibbling now. Obama left the country in better shape than he found it in. Which was what you asked for.

And when I left my house this morning it was later than when I woke up.

Obama left the U.S. in better shape?

Are you high?

-TG

Sure he did-

I'm skeptical that any president has direct influence on economic statistics.

TG, Take a look at that again.

This is what I've been trying to say. All of you are being illogical, and making fools out of yourselves.

Regardless of what this exchange proves, the arguments you're coming up with to defend Trump continue to get lamer and lamer. Why do you guys put yourselves in this position? This is not left vs right, at least not for me. You know there are center parties in other countries.

Earlier you said "nasty" means spiteful, I doubt Trump was referring to that meaning, and you discharged against those who turned it into an argument, and later you labeled Trump as a clown. Can you use a more softer adjective for what he's doing? Again, it's not what this "nasty" business proves, but the argumentation.

This is insane. There's a portion of the population of the US that wants to go backwards in many things, and maybe you're not one of them, but certainly leaving Trump in power encourages those xtratabascos. I do not like the exaggeration in PC either, but certain things cross the line, and you can quickly see when a person is meaning harm.

1) I'm not defending Trump, I'm attacking the blind faith of party politics. 2) That is indeed what Trump meant, he replied that during one of the debates. From CNN:

"My Social Security payroll contribution will go up, as will Donald's, assuming he can't figure out how to get out of it," Clinton said.
"Such a nasty woman," Trump said into the microphone while Clinton was talking.

At no point does that come across as misogynistic, yet it's been seized upon as a call to arms to paint Trump as such. Maybe he is, I don't know, but I'm more concerned that this (actual) misappropriation is used in a false manner. There are plenty of other instances to use, like his alleged history of inappropriate behavior with women, than to resort to putting words in his mouth he didn't say.

It's like a cop planting evidence onto a criminal. I don't give a shit if the criminal is guilty, prove he's guilty through process of law, not by bringing false evidence against him. I don't think that's illogical. It may be foolish.

-TG

You're asking people to ignore a wider range of misogyny from Trump to excuse a specific example, and also asking people to ignore a wider range of lies from Trump about Clinton. You can't really be trying to pull this "It was a one off thing, and you guys are being unfair if you link it to everything else" argument, can you?

It is kind of lawyerly of you, but you do seem to be trying to get off on technicalities.

[nietzsche]

TG, you're missing the point. and I don't know if deliberately or if I'm not making myself clear.

I didn't even know where the "nasty" argument came from.

But it's my hunch that you guys like Trump's way and will simply not say it openly. saxi, patches, tgd, you, all have an excuse to say "Trump isn't so bad", "I didn't vote for him.. but he hasn't really do nothing baad, those EO are toothless", "This might be counterintuitive but, if you think really really hard, have some acid, you'll see it's the other way around.. but i didn't vote for trump". "I've always wanted x! now i didn't vote for trump but he might get it done, by accident, so, that's why!", "He's just an adorable clown, it's not my fault millenialibtards are so sensitive"..

Nah, I think you guys wanna see america great again and don't believe the fake news.


It's not up to me though, your choice, but it looks there's a lot of confusion among you guys that think it has to be one way or the other, because you know, there are two parties.

Certainly no argument will change anyone's mind when they don't want to. We do this as a sport.

[Symmetry]

TG, you're missing the point. and I don't know if deliberately or if I'm not making myself clear.

I didn't even know where the "nasty" argument came from.

But it's my hunch that you guys like Trump's way and will simply not say it openly. saxi, patches, tgd, you, all have an excuse to say "Trump isn't so bad", "I didn't vote for him.. but he hasn't really do nothing baad, those EO are toothless", "This might be counterintuitive but, if you think really really hard, have some acid, you'll see it's the other way around.. but i didn't vote for trump". "I've always wanted x! now i didn't vote for trump but he might get it done, by accident, so, that's why!", "He's just an adorable clown, it's not my fault millenialibtards are so sensitive"..

Nah, I think you guys wanna see america great again and don't believe the fake news.


It's not up to me though, your choice, but it looks there's a lot of confusion among you guys that think it has to be one way or the other, because you know, there are two parties.

Certainly no argument will change anyone's mind when they don't want to. We do this as a sport.

That's a fairer comment, thanks for the clarification.

[patches70]

It's not up to me though, your choice, but it looks there's a lot of confusion among you guys that think it has to be one way or the other, because you know, there are two parties.

Certainly no argument will change anyone's mind when they don't want to. We do this as a sport.

You gotta try and acknowledge one thing. The choice was between Trump or Hillary. Period. That's a no win situation. Sure there were other parties, but no matter what it was going to be either Trump or Hillary.
You could put a gun to my head and say "vote Hillary or else" and I'd tell you "I'll see you in hell fuckface". That's how strongly I am against Hillary.
It doesn't matter why. That's just how I feel. I have my own reasons and it doesn't matter if you agree or not, people feel how they feel.

Now Trump ain't no great prize either. I wasted my vote and voted libertarian content on leaving the decision to my countrymen. There were enough people in the right places who feel exactly how I do about Hillary and decided, for whatever reasons to go ahead and vote Trump.

Bill Clinton fucking raped women and the country survived him. The rapist Bill Clinton even managed to keep the US out of years and years of war. He didn't spend money like a drunken sailor on shore leave in Thailand. As a man, as a husband, hell as a human being, Bill Clinton ain't no great prize, but he wasn't the worst POTUS.


You can tell a lot about a person by the enemies they have. With enemies like CNN, The Washington Post, Hillary Clinton, Chuck Shcumer, Micheal Moore, Paul Krugman, the various Hollywood stars, it speaks volumes. People like me don't give a flying f*ck what these people say, think or want.
The American people don't give a f*ck about what Mexican nationals or British snobbery think either. You guys do your own thing, it's fine, let us do our own thing and try not to shit yourselves too much as your imaginations run wild . The American people don't want to get involved in everyone else's problems around the world to the point where resentment to our nation or coercion has to be used by US. We don't want the US to do those things. We don't want the US to be the police force for the world.

People voted for Trump because he promised to rip apart the status quo. I tried to tell people in this very fora about the mood of the American people but you all were enamored and misled by agenda driven media who clearly, undeniably threw away all journalistic integrity and sided with crooked Hillary. People voted for Trump as a big "f*ck You" to the federal government, the intervention driven war hawks, the fear mongers, the SJW's, the Internet White Knights, the disingenuous virtual signalling yippie and the PC police who try to tell everyone what is and isn't acceptable to think. A big middle finger to the career politicians, the banks, the race baiters, the Globalists, the Transnationalists (the filthy scum that they are), the UN, the IMF, the World Bank, the Middle East, Europe, the whole fucking world.
Why?

Because we fucking could. That's all the reason we need. It might not work out, but f*ck it, it was now or never. You want someone to blame for Trump? Blame the above list, they are the one's who drove the US to this point. Instead of outright dismissing legitimate concerns, ignoring whole segments of the population because you think them "racists" or "stupid" or whatever derogatory label that is applied to them, maybe those people should have been listened to, their concerns at least attempted to be addressed instead of dismissing them outright.

The American people for the most part, just the regular Joe's, we just wanna work, raise our families as we see fit and just live in peace. We don't wanna tell anyone else how to live or how to think or how to raise their families or run their nations or fight their wars. We are happy to trade with, tell stories, have camaraderie and fellowship with other nations and peoples.
Most of us aren't hard crazy like Xtratobassco or anarchistic as Saxi. Contrary to popular belief the American people aren't racists, we don't wanna murder homosexuals, we don't give a shit about the color of one's skin.

The day Trump goes beyond his Constitutional approved powers, that's the day you'll see me here, on this fora ripping him a new asshole, literary speaking. I just wish more of my countrymen had treated the previous administration the same way. I don't give a shit about the Republicans or the Democrats, they are all liars as far as I'm concerned and are all equally untrustworthy.
I don't give a shit what stupid shit Trump says, I don't give a shit was stupid rumors there are. I don't even give a shit if he uses his office as a bully pulpit, every POTUS does that. None of that matters much at all. Bill Clinton is evidence enough of that.

So far, so far Trump has don't anything that other administrations haven't done. He hasn't yet exceeded his executive authority. There are plenty of things I don't agree with Trump on. And when he tries to do some of those things, I'll be on here letting all you good people know about it, for all the good it'll do. I did the same damn thing with Obama and all I ever got in return was a bunch of people defending his stupid ideas. But until that time comes all this freaking out over Trump is doing nothing but strengthening his hand. I don't expect most of you to understand that or accept that, but it is what it is.
Trump's start has been chaotic, nonsensical at times but considering the emotions at play, to be expected. The dude ain't never held political office for Christ's sake. That's not necessarily a bad thing either, but it does make his learning curve a tad bit steeper.

Just accept that Trump wasn't elected because the people who voted for him wanted things to go "business as usual". The people who voted for him wanted the exact opposite of business as usual. And on that point I'd say Trump at least appears as a huge success in that regard, by your all's own admissions.

[saxitoxin]

But it's my hunch that you guys like Trump's way and will simply not say it openly. saxi, patches, tgd, you, all have an excuse to say "Trump isn't so bad",

TG is the one pussy-footing around. I've been very blunt that I like Trump's connections to Russia, I like his opposition to a no-fly zone over Syria, I like the damage he's doing to major social institutions, and I like his attacks on the press*.

* "The social basis of the cry for 'objectivity' in writing about current public affairs is to be found in the desire of the plutocracy and its savants and its critics to escape rigorous critical treatment." - Ferdinand Lundberg, 1937

[Symmetry]

It's not up to me though, your choice, but it looks there's a lot of confusion among you guys that think it has to be one way or the other, because you know, there are two parties.

Certainly no argument will change anyone's mind when they don't want to. We do this as a sport.

You gotta try and acknowledge one thing. The choice was between Trump or Hillary. Period. That's a no win situation. Sure there were other parties, but no matter what it was going to be either Trump or Hillary.
You could put a gun to my head and say "vote Hillary or else" and I'd tell you "I'll see you in hell fuckface". That's how strongly I am against Hillary.
It doesn't matter why. That's just how I feel. I have my own reasons and it doesn't matter if you agree or not, people feel how they feel.

Now Trump ain't no great prize either. I wasted my vote and voted libertarian content on leaving the decision to my countrymen. There were enough people in the right places who feel exactly how I do about Hillary and decided, for whatever reasons to go ahead and vote Trump.

Bill Clinton fucking raped women and the country survived him. The rapist Bill Clinton even managed to keep the US out of years and years of war. He didn't spend money like a drunken sailor on shore leave in Thailand. As a man, as a husband, hell as a human being, Bill Clinton ain't no great prize, but he wasn't the worst POTUS.


You can tell a lot about a person by the enemies they have. With enemies like CNN, The Washington Post, Hillary Clinton, Chuck Shcumer, Micheal Moore, Paul Krugman, the various Hollywood stars, it speaks volumes. People like me don't give a flying f*ck what these people say, think or want.
The American people don't give a f*ck about what Mexican nationals or British snobbery think either. You guys do your own thing, it's fine, let us do our own thing and try not to shit yourselves too much as your imaginations run wild . The American people don't want to get involved in everyone else's problems around the world to the point where resentment to our nation or coercion has to be used by US. We don't want the US to do those things. We don't want the US to be the police force for the world.

People voted for Trump because he promised to rip apart the status quo. I tried to tell people in this very fora about the mood of the American people but you all were enamored and misled by agenda driven media who clearly, undeniably threw away all journalistic integrity and sided with crooked Hillary. People voted for Trump as a big "f*ck You" to the federal government, the intervention driven war hawks, the fear mongers, the SJW's, the Internet White Knights, the disingenuous virtual signalling yippie and the PC police who try to tell everyone what is and isn't acceptable to think. A big middle finger to the career politicians, the banks, the race baiters, the Globalists, the Transnationalists (the filthy scum that they are), the UN, the IMF, the World Bank, the Middle East, Europe, the whole fucking world.
Why?

Because we fucking could. That's all the reason we need. It might not work out, but f*ck it, it was now or never. You want someone to blame for Trump? Blame the above list, they are the one's who drove the US to this point. Instead of outright dismissing legitimate concerns, ignoring whole segments of the population because you think them "racists" or "stupid" or whatever derogatory label that is applied to them, maybe those people should have been listened to, their concerns at least attempted to be addressed instead of dismissing them outright.

The American people for the most part, just the regular Joe's, we just wanna work, raise our families as we see fit and just live in peace. We don't wanna tell anyone else how to live or how to think or how to raise their families or run their nations or fight their wars. We are happy to trade with, tell stories, have camaraderie and fellowship with other nations and peoples.
Most of us aren't hard crazy like Xtratobassco or anarchistic as Saxi. Contrary to popular belief the American people aren't racists, we don't wanna murder homosexuals, we don't give a shit about the color of one's skin.

The day Trump goes beyond his Constitutional approved powers, that's the day you'll see me here, on this fora ripping him a new asshole, literary speaking. I just wish more of my countrymen had treated the previous administration the same way. I don't give a shit about the Republicans or the Democrats, they are all liars as far as I'm concerned and are all equally untrustworthy.
I don't give a shit what stupid shit Trump says, I don't give a shit was stupid rumors there are. I don't even give a shit if he uses his office as a bully pulpit, every POTUS does that. None of that matters much at all. Bill Clinton is evidence enough of that.

So far, so far Trump has don't anything that other administrations haven't done. He hasn't yet exceeded his executive authority. There are plenty of things I don't agree with Trump on. And when he tries to do some of those things, I'll be on here letting all you good people know about it, for all the good it'll do. I did the same damn thing with Obama and all I ever got in return was a bunch of people defending his stupid ideas. But until that time comes all this freaking out over Trump is doing nothing but strengthening his hand. I don't expect most of you to understand that or accept that, but it is what it is.
Trump's start has been chaotic, nonsensical at times but considering the emotions at play, to be expected. The dude ain't never held political office for Christ's sake. That's not necessarily a bad thing either, but it does make his learning curve a tad bit steeper.

Just accept that Trump wasn't elected because the people who voted for him wanted things to go "business as usual". The people who voted for him wanted the exact opposite of business as usual. And on that point I'd say Trump at least appears as a huge success in that regard, by your all's own admissions.

Just replying to preserve this little pro-Trump cri de couer.

Carry on.

[Nobunaga]

... I have no opinion on the subject.

...

[nietzsche]

The American people don't give a f*ck about what Mexican nationals think

https://unsee.cc/gunibepa/

[BoganGod]

The American people don't give a f*ck about what Mexican nationals think

https://unsee.cc/gunibepa/

Easy D! It is a big step for an american to even acknowledge that mexico is a nation. Patches70 has learnt and evolved some. Building a wall will do great things for the economies of both nations. Make it uge!

[saxitoxin]

30,000 Expected Today for Party Mass Rally in Melbourne (Florida, not Australia)


http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... rida-rally

Meanwhile ...

By Friday afternoon, the Facebook event page "Resist President Trump at Melbourne Airport" had attracted more than 600 people who were "going".

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/ ... /98042132/

[notyou2]

It's not up to me though, your choice, but it looks there's a lot of confusion among you guys that think it has to be one way or the other, because you know, there are two parties.

Certainly no argument will change anyone's mind when they don't want to. We do this as a sport.

You gotta try and acknowledge one thing. The choice was between Trump or Hillary. Period. That's a no win situation. Sure there were other parties, but no matter what it was going to be either Trump or Hillary.
You could put a gun to my head and say "vote Hillary or else" and I'd tell you "I'll see you in hell fuckface". That's how strongly I am against Hillary.
It doesn't matter why. That's just how I feel. I have my own reasons and it doesn't matter if you agree or not, people feel how they feel.

Now Trump ain't no great prize either. I wasted my vote and voted libertarian content on leaving the decision to my countrymen. There were enough people in the right places who feel exactly how I do about Hillary and decided, for whatever reasons to go ahead and vote Trump.

Bill Clinton fucking raped women and the country survived him. The rapist Bill Clinton even managed to keep the US out of years and years of war. He didn't spend money like a drunken sailor on shore leave in Thailand. As a man, as a husband, hell as a human being, Bill Clinton ain't no great prize, but he wasn't the worst POTUS.


You can tell a lot about a person by the enemies they have. With enemies like CNN, The Washington Post, Hillary Clinton, Chuck Shcumer, Micheal Moore, Paul Krugman, the various Hollywood stars, it speaks volumes. People like me don't give a flying f*ck what these people say, think or want.
The American people don't give a f*ck about what Mexican nationals or British snobbery think either. You guys do your own thing, it's fine, let us do our own thing and try not to shit yourselves too much as your imaginations run wild . The American people don't want to get involved in everyone else's problems around the world to the point where resentment to our nation or coercion has to be used by US. We don't want the US to do those things. We don't want the US to be the police force for the world.

People voted for Trump because he promised to rip apart the status quo. I tried to tell people in this very fora about the mood of the American people but you all were enamored and misled by agenda driven media who clearly, undeniably threw away all journalistic integrity and sided with crooked Hillary. People voted for Trump as a big "f*ck You" to the federal government, the intervention driven war hawks, the fear mongers, the SJW's, the Internet White Knights, the disingenuous virtual signalling yippie and the PC police who try to tell everyone what is and isn't acceptable to think. A big middle finger to the career politicians, the banks, the race baiters, the Globalists, the Transnationalists (the filthy scum that they are), the UN, the IMF, the World Bank, the Middle East, Europe, the whole fucking world.
Why?

Because we fucking could. That's all the reason we need. It might not work out, but f*ck it, it was now or never. You want someone to blame for Trump? Blame the above list, they are the one's who drove the US to this point. Instead of outright dismissing legitimate concerns, ignoring whole segments of the population because you think them "racists" or "stupid" or whatever derogatory label that is applied to them, maybe those people should have been listened to, their concerns at least attempted to be addressed instead of dismissing them outright.

The American people for the most part, just the regular Joe's, we just wanna work, raise our families as we see fit and just live in peace. We don't wanna tell anyone else how to live or how to think or how to raise their families or run their nations or fight their wars. We are happy to trade with, tell stories, have camaraderie and fellowship with other nations and peoples.
Most of us aren't hard crazy like Xtratobassco or anarchistic as Saxi. Contrary to popular belief the American people aren't racists, we don't wanna murder homosexuals, we don't give a shit about the color of one's skin.

The day Trump goes beyond his Constitutional approved powers, that's the day you'll see me here, on this fora ripping him a new asshole, literary speaking. I just wish more of my countrymen had treated the previous administration the same way. I don't give a shit about the Republicans or the Democrats, they are all liars as far as I'm concerned and are all equally untrustworthy.
I don't give a shit what stupid shit Trump says, I don't give a shit was stupid rumors there are. I don't even give a shit if he uses his office as a bully pulpit, every POTUS does that. None of that matters much at all. Bill Clinton is evidence enough of that.

So far, so far Trump has don't anything that other administrations haven't done. He hasn't yet exceeded his executive authority. There are plenty of things I don't agree with Trump on. And when he tries to do some of those things, I'll be on here letting all you good people know about it, for all the good it'll do. I did the same damn thing with Obama and all I ever got in return was a bunch of people defending his stupid ideas. But until that time comes all this freaking out over Trump is doing nothing but strengthening his hand. I don't expect most of you to understand that or accept that, but it is what it is.
Trump's start has been chaotic, nonsensical at times but considering the emotions at play, to be expected. The dude ain't never held political office for Christ's sake. That's not necessarily a bad thing either, but it does make his learning curve a tad bit steeper.

Just accept that Trump wasn't elected because the people who voted for him wanted things to go "business as usual". The people who voted for him wanted the exact opposite of business as usual. And on that point I'd say Trump at least appears as a huge success in that regard, by your all's own admissions.

I understand all this patches, and especially the sentiment of the American people and why this happened. I too want to live in peace and prosperity with my loved ones. However, I am scared as shit that this upheaval will result in even further disparity between the ultra rich and the average Joe. The corporations and the ultra rich will own us all. We could very well regress to fiefdoms again.

[patches70]

Yep. And as long as people keep bleating on about how "Trump is a woman hater, he's a racist!" instead of saying "Yeah, we gotta do something about illegal immigration, we gotta do something about the loss of manufacturing jobs, we gotta do something about our foreign policy, we gotta do something about the national debt" Trump is just going to keep building steam and power.

Listen up all you leftist, virtue signalling SJW's, bleeding heart libs, Democrats, Republicans; if you keep dismissing the legitimate concerns of the so called "deplorables" because you automatically assume they are all just racist or stupid then there are just going to be more people like Trump getting elected.

All I see here is superficial attacks on Trump instead of acknowledging that he campaigned and won the election based on talking about specific issues that he believes are legitimate concerns of voters in the US. Not a single one of you anti Trumpites have said word one about illegal immigration or debt, or trade deficits or manufacturing jobs lost and come up with any ideas on how to address these issues. You ignore the important things and your criticisms lack substance.
Hey, if you actually think none of these things are problems then speak up and explain how illegal immigration isn't a problem. Tell everyone why the negative trade deficits are good for America. Tell us why it's ok to rack up a trillion+ in debt every year. Tell us why the US should be go all around the world poking Russia in the eye and overthrowing other countries governments. Tell us why it's great to export our manufacturing jobs and importing more bartender jobs.
Or, if you think these are problems then speak up and suggest what should be done and contrast that with what you think Trump's done about those things so far.
At the moment what we are watching is a fight between the public elected government which has the appearance of being in control and the Deep State which is unelected, anonymous, unaccountable and is really running the country. Which of you fucks are going to speak up and say "yeah! I'm on the side of the Deep State!"?

[patches70]

I understand all this patches, and especially the sentiment of the American people and why this happened. I too want to live in peace and prosperity with my loved ones. However, I am scared as shit that this upheaval will result in even further disparity between the ultra rich and the average Joe. The corporations and the ultra rich will own us all. We could very well regress to fiefdoms again.

If you truly understand how and why Trump got elected then you understand that there are large swaths of Americans who have been marginalized, demonized and ignored for years because they don't virtue signal, get in other peoples business and have legitimate concerns about the fate and future of their country.
You should be standing up against leftist anarchists who burn, loot and destroy and use Trump as an excuse.
You should be telling liberals that they can't just dismiss people out of hand because those people happen to disagree about how we should go about things.
The thing is that liberals and conservative basically agree that things are messed up. That there are the way things are and the ways things should be. There is no disagreement on the "What". The disagreement comes to the "how" we go about addressing these things. After years of "It's my way because your side is stupid and racist" one must accept that this approach is counter productive and creates resentment.

When the moron says "Trump shouldn't be President" you have to reply "WTF is wrong with you? Accept reality, he is the President".
When the moron says "Trump should be impeached because he has dirty locker room talk" you have to reply "WTF is wrong with you? That doesn't make a rat's ass bit of difference."
When the moron says "Trump shouldn't be President because the election system is rigged!" you have to reply "WTF is wrong with you? Everyone knew the rules of the election process except you apparently."
When the moron says "Trump is a Russian puppet!" you have to reply with "WTF is wrong with you? He's a puppet because he thinks nuclear war with Russia is a bad idea? That we and the world are better off when great powers cooperate instead of antagonizing each other while backed up with vast nuclear arsenals."
When the moron says "Trump is a racist" you have to reply with "WTF, don't be an idiot."
When the moron says "Trump peed on prostitutes and is being blackmailed by the Russians", you have to reply...well, what can you say. Morons will believe anything. I guess at that point you just gotta roll your eyes and accept that the moron is going to continue to believe anything that adds to his conformation bias and ignore reality. At that point you should finally be aware that these people are in no way shape or form serious about anything other than appearing to their peers as virtuous and "woke". These people's own personal reality is in constant turmoil and that is why they will always be in turmoil.
You have to accept that anyone firmly embedded in the "my team vs the other team" is not capable of a rational approach to the problems that face the average Joe.
Hell, I wouldn't mind one bit if every single politician was replaced tomorrow by average Joe's who have never held political office before. All these things you have concerns about, notyou2, happened and were brought into being long before Trump ever got elected. This situation happened under the auspices of Team Red and Team Blue career politicians. It's insane to think that the very people who made this happen are going to be able or even willing to change the situation.

[waauw]

Tell everyone why the negative trade deficits are good for America. ... Tell us why it's great to export our manufacturing jobs and importing more bartender jobs.

People need to stop fixating on trade deficits and the move of the 'old' industries. This isn't 18th century anymore. Ricardo changed.

[patches70]

Tell everyone why the negative trade deficits are good for America. ... Tell us why it's great to export our manufacturing jobs and importing more bartender jobs.

People need to stop fixating on trade deficits and the move of the 'old' industries. This isn't 18th century anymore. Ricardo changed.

Manufacturing is an old industry? As in obsolete? Pray tell, explain exactly how manufacturing is obsolete.
The US has moved out of the manufacturing industry and replaced it with the financial instrument industry. That's our #1 export after all, though it's hard to quantify. If you complain about the disparity in wealth, look to the US' real export. Financial instruments like bundling a whole bunch of crappy loans together and calling it an "asset" and selling them to unsuspecting fools as a get rich scheme.

You do understand that the entire world is built on debt right? Nothing makes poor people get more poor than to keep getting further and further into debt. We got so much debt that it's what we export. Debt. Yeah, that's really wise and "progressive".

Notyou2 is worried about regressing into fiefdoms, well debt slavery is certainly a type of fiefdom, I'll give him that for sure. And that's a legitimate concern, sorry if I didn't make that clear to you, notyour2. My apologies.

[waauw]

Tell everyone why the negative trade deficits are good for America. ... Tell us why it's great to export our manufacturing jobs and importing more bartender jobs.

People need to stop fixating on trade deficits and the move of the 'old' industries. This isn't 18th century anymore. Ricardo changed.

Manufacturing is an old industry? As in obsolete? Pray tell, explain exactly how manufacturing is obsolete.
The US has moved out of the manufacturing industry and replaced it with the financial instrument industry. That's our #1 export after all, though it's hard to quantify. If you complain about the disparity in wealth, look to the US' real export. Financial instruments like bundling a whole bunch of crappy loans together and calling it an "asset" and selling them to unsuspecting fools as a get rich scheme.

You do understand that the entire world is built on debt right? Nothing makes poor people get more poor than to keep getting further and further into debt. We got so much debt that it's what we export. Debt. Yeah, that's really wise and "progressive".

Notyou2 is worried about regressing into fiefdoms, well debt slavery is certainly a type of fiefdom, I'll give him that for sure. And that's a legitimate concern, sorry if I didn't make that clear to you, notyour2. My apologies.

Dude, I said anything about debt. I was merely contradicting the out-dated mercantilist doctrines.

[hotfire]

There are plenty of manuf. jobs in America. It is just they are taken by robots. And new manuf. jobs will be too. How does a robot having more jobs help me?

[patches70]

Dude, I said anything about debt. I was merely contradicting the out-dated mercantilist doctrines.

Oh, you mean free trade. Free trade is great. But it only works with comparable countries. Even you can't deny that. Two countries that have relative parity in standards of living and wages then free trade works great.
Where free trade doesn't work is between countries where those standards are in stark contrast. A country like France can't compete with a country like China in labor costs, the biggest expense any manufacturing process accrues.

So tell us, what is your solution to improving free trade with countries that don't have parity in regards to standards of living and wages?

That is a legitimate issue and bleating out "Free Trade is best Trade" like a lamb doesn't actually address the issue, does it? Simply saying "This isn't the 18th century anymore" doesn't address the legitimate issue either. You seem to think it does for some reason.

Then there is the issue of free trade with totalitarian regimes. You still have the exact same problems with labor costs harming the more advanced nation with the addition that the benefits for the totalitarian nation never reaches those who are the worse off in that country. Free trade benefits the dictator and his cronies but to the virtually enslaved people free trade is simply more sweat shops.
How is that address with "This isn't the 18th century anymore"?

Your "contradicting outdated mercantilists doctrines" argument lack any substance at all.

[patches70]

There are plenty of manuf. jobs in America. It is just they are taken by robots. And new manuf. jobs will be too. How does a robot having more jobs help me?

Now that is a legitimate concern, does someone saying "this isn't the 18th century anymore" address that concern?
Of course not.

If you look closely, Trump hasn't said a single word about automatization and for good reason. He has no idea how to deal with that. That's ok because no one else knows how to deal with it either, as far as rectifying increasing automation while also bringing back more manufacturing jobs lost through programs like NAFTA.

I would say, we've been through this already if we look back through history. Before industrialization everything was hand crafted by artisans. A slow process and expensive with a high degree of specialization and years of apprenticeship and a large learning curve. The most advanced nations industrialized and put those artisans out of work. We forget but at the time people were saying the exact same thing. The artisans, the apprentices all complained they'd be put out of work, and they were. It was so bad in fact that virtually every industrialized nation when first becoming industrialized went through intense periods of strife.
The word "sabotage", it is said, comes from the word "sabot" from the Netherlands. The artisans would throw their sabots into the machines to damage and destroy the things that were taking their jobs, hence the word "sabotage".
We've all heard of the Luddites who were involved in large scale riots and gladly destroyed threshing machines. They were put down by extremely harsh punishments and crackdowns by respective governments.
But we got through it.

I'd imagine much the same can and will happen as we get more and more automated.
Then there is the more positive aspects. Yes, people lose their jobs, yes it can be disruptive to society, yes there are adjustment pains. We can see that coming. What we can't see is the invisible hand, the reallocation of assets and resources and what that means for prosperity and a better future.
How does robots having more jobs benefit you? I don't know, because only you know what benefits you. For my part, robots having more jobs could mean even cheaper and more plentiful products. I don't know exactly. I can't know because I can't predict all the future implications. I have an idea, and if you have the same idea yourself there is nothing stopping you from preparing for the eventuality is there? That would be wise of you would you agree?
What I wouldn't suggest is pinning one's hopes on the government to ensure your future for you or put too much faith in a politician.

In regards to Trump, he can say he's going to bring back manufacturing jobs and I have no real reason to oppose him on this. I am however skeptical because automation for instance. But, that's what Trump got elected on so why should it be any surprise to anyone that he's trying to do something about it? He may be wrong, he might not do the right thing but it's not like I'm hearing any of the "Trump is evil" crowd offering any other suggestions to legitimate concerns. Have you seen any of them actually addressing your concern about robots taking your job for instance?

[saxitoxin]

Dude, I said anything about debt. I was merely contradicting the out-dated mercantilist doctrines.

[saxitoxin]

Massive rally as 30,000 people assembled to hear President Trump in Florida this afternoon --- 3,000 had to be turned away due to capacity. There were 700 protesters. In other words, more Trump supporters had to be turned away than protesters showed up!



He even gave a shout-out to Brexit as an example of Trumpism sweeping the world. "Look at Brexit - it's much smaller than what we did - but look at Brexit. The Nation-State remains the best model for human happiness."

If Trump gets "impeached" what if he simply refuses to give up the presidency? Whose gonna take it from him? We control the military, police, and hundreds of thousands of armed supporters. Good luck!

[saxitoxin]

The President of the Known Universe has left the building!

[riskllama]

who's "we"?

[Symmetry]

who's "we"?

Probably the 60% of Americans who don't want to have impeached already.