Indigo League Mafia/RPG Final Scene

[dakky21]

Being a trainer or mewtwo make the most sense for why the recruit failed. He could be an already captured Pokémon as well, but probability-wise that's slim. If wild Pokémon could just "escape" an attempted capture, I'm sure that would be mentioned in Gary's PM that it's possible and dakky seems like he didn't know anything about that. So unless Gary hasn't shared that info with him, I doubt its the case.

I already said I know a pokemon can escape an attempted capture. It was written in the first PM when I was captured. The thing here is that I got only "action failed" instead of "escaped" or "successful". I don't know what Gary got as he is the trainer and I'm just his pokemon. I guess the same since we're the team, but still the question remains open till N2 when I can hear from Gary.

[strike wolf]

I'd like to hear from Tal and Sam about their thoughts on this. Legion has stated his position.

[mandalorian2298]

Vote Count

Samlen (2) - Hotshot, Nagerous

Mitch (2) - Exile, Skittles

legionnare (2) - Mitch, DoomYoshi

Ragian (1) - Strike

Hotshot (3) - BuJaber, Anark, Samlen

DoomYoshi (3) - dakky, legionnare, Kwan


With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

[DoomYoshi]

I didn't write Gary thrown a ball at DoomYoshi.... But to make it simple, there you go.

So you would deliberately go out of your way to ruin the game for another player? Tell me how that isn't evil.

I don't know why your ball failed, but I'm glad that it did.

How is this ruining the game? It's Team Gary's discretion what info to reveal about their night actions. Your reaction here screams sour grapes about being outed.

Being a trainer or mewtwo make the most sense for why the recruit failed. He could be an already captured Pokémon as well, but probability-wise that's slim. If wild Pokémon could just "escape" an attempted capture, I'm sure that would be mentioned in Gary's PM that it's possible and dakky seems like he didn't know anything about that. So unless Gary hasn't shared that info with him, I doubt its the case.

Vote doomyoshi

Throwing a Pokeball at a perfectly happy Wild Pokemon is an attempt to ruin the game and suck that player onto the cult side.

@strike: i don't normally do cases, but I'll try a bit of one.

come on guys , can't you take a joke? my post was per Mandys request that is all. My other post has some good points since I know very little about pokemon, I T WAS RELATED MORE TO THE SHOW THEN TO THIS GAME but I thought it might tie in. already told you Iwas not much on posting and Wcg post is very well formed and hard to follow.

What you know or don't know about the flavour of a game has no bearing at all, whether Pokemon or Ming Dynasty China, the same general rules apply: find and kill mafia. The questions you were asking had nothing to do with that, as a town all the info you need to get going is given to you at the start, the only reason you would ask for more info (i.e. how many factions, how many in a faction, make up of factions, etc.) is if you are scum looking for information that would inform your decisions for night actions.

vote madmitch

This post in context screams scum. The context is that up until this point legion has only done flavor speculation and then rips into mitch about flavor speculation.

So, even though you have put MINIMAL effort into this game, you think I should think back 5-9 years ago to the games I played with these people and analyze each player? First, piss off. Second, I have had far too much bourbon, have moved too many times, have changed jobs a few, and have had far too many life experiences to actually remember that... That guy you ate with at work for years, what did he eat everyday? That is basically what you are asking of me, and that is patently absurd. After this long, most people are not going to play the exact same way anyway. We have all grown, and a few of us have even matured... To try and meta that is a waste of my time. But next time you ask me to spend hours on one post just to assuage your fears, do me a favor and right more than two or three sentences at a time.

I'm sorry if you think that I'm putting in minimal effort but it would fair to say I am putting considerably more effort into this game than a some folk and that I feel that I am doing fairly well considering my lack of experience.
Perhaps I mis-worded my question; my intent was not to suggest that you spend hours analyzing each player, merely that if you had any experience of playing with Minister Masket and madmitch (the current lynch candidates) and if you did then in general how do feel about their playstyle in this game in comparison to others.

This post is also backpedalling from earlier comments. We go from experience and time playing not mattering a few posts earlier to experience being a factor and metas based on experience being a factor. This all could be legion thinking out loud (something I am prone to do) but it seems that it isn't a rigorous, internally logical system that is being applied. In other words, it's a bunch of hot air.

One of my older (I don't rely on it anymore) sure-fire scum slips is this: somebody setting up further lynches based on how others flip. Only scum really knows how others are going to flip, so when he says: "I'm willing to keep the pressure on mitch even if it will make me look scummy if in the event that he flips non-scum.", it stands out. Especially since the tune changed overnight.

I agree with BuJaber's FOS on Legion for not picking up on little clues.

Finally, the thing that made me certain:

I KNOW psychic is not one of the wild Pokemon types, which is why I'm suggesting it would be a special role. Read that death scene again. Suicidal mind control. Purple glow around the eyes. Sounds like psychic interference to me, and the most likely character lorewise would be Mewtwo. Again, all I'm doing is speculating on fluff.

I agree with this, there is definitely a Mewtwo out there acting as an independent faction. If you watch the pokemon film (can't remember which one) with mewtwo in it he is shown as a sentient pokemon with an intelligence that rivals or is even superior to humans. When he takes control of other pokemon in the film there is a purple glow around their eyes.

The only player who mentioned MewTwo Day 1 was Skoffin. It follows that the only player to be certain that MewTwo is in the game would also be on Team Rocket.

[dakky21]

Throwing a Pokeball at a perfectly happy Wild Pokemon is an attempt to ruin the game and suck that player onto the cult side.

<cut>

I still don't understand how is it ruining the game? It's perfectly normal mafia action. Being on cult side, you have a game inside a game, trying not to change what you already said and not reveal yourself you were introduced to a cult.. I find that interesting and funny mechanics. You obviously don't.

Just btw, perfectly happy Wild Pokemon isn't going to save you, as that is irrelevant claim. Everyone can now claim WP when we know there are a lot of them in the game.

And trying to break momentum on my case by commenting another one while you "don't normally do cases" is obviously an attempt of defending. Being too defensive will get you lynched, been there, done that.

[Samlen]

On phone so can't say much easily. Doom's case seems viable. Or, at least founded on something logical. I'll elaborate more on voting doom or hotshot when I can access a computer.

[legionnare]

@strike: i don't normally do cases, but I'll try a bit of one.

Couple of thing Yoshi:
1)How do justify your votes then? (not just in this game but in any, if you "don't normally do cases")
2)I can see why don't though cos this attempt is flimsy at best

Spoiler

come on guys , can't you take a joke? my post was per Mandys request that is all. My other post has some good points since I know very little about pokemon, I T WAS RELATED MORE TO THE SHOW THEN TO THIS GAME but I thought it might tie in. already told you Iwas not much on posting and Wcg post is very well formed and hard to follow.

What you know or don't know about the flavour of a game has no bearing at all, whether Pokemon or Ming Dynasty China, the same general rules apply: find and kill mafia. The questions you were asking had nothing to do with that, as a town all the info you need to get going is given to you at the start, the only reason you would ask for more info (i.e. how many factions, how many in a faction, make up of factions, etc.) is if you are scum looking for information that would inform your decisions for night actions.

vote madmitch

This post in context screams scum. The context is that up until this point legion has only done flavor speculation and then rips into mitch about flavor speculation.

If you think that all I was doing was flavour speculating before then fair enough but I had been asking questions of Mitch prior to this post. Also as I have stated more than once, I am pretty inexperienced and often struggle to think of a route to take on D1, Mitch's blatant info fishing was the only thing I really picked up on as scummy to start with and I decided to stick with it.

Spoiler

So, even though you have put MINIMAL effort into this game, you think I should think back 5-9 years ago to the games I played with these people and analyze each player? First, piss off. Second, I have had far too much bourbon, have moved too many times, have changed jobs a few, and have had far too many life experiences to actually remember that... That guy you ate with at work for years, what did he eat everyday? That is basically what you are asking of me, and that is patently absurd. After this long, most people are not going to play the exact same way anyway. We have all grown, and a few of us have even matured... To try and meta that is a waste of my time. But next time you ask me to spend hours on one post just to assuage your fears, do me a favor and right more than two or three sentences at a time.

I'm sorry if you think that I'm putting in minimal effort but it would fair to say I am putting considerably more effort into this game than a some folk and that I feel that I am doing fairly well considering my lack of experience.
Perhaps I mis-worded my question; my intent was not to suggest that you spend hours analyzing each player, merely that if you had any experience of playing with Minister Masket and madmitch (the current lynch candidates) and if you did then in general how do feel about their playstyle in this game in comparison to others.

This post is also backpedalling from earlier comments. We go from experience and time playing not mattering a few posts earlier to experience being a factor and metas based on experience being a factor. This all could be legion thinking out loud (something I am prone to do) but it seems that it isn't a rigorous, internally logical system that is being applied. In other words, it's a bunch of hot air.

How so? Where did I say that experience didn't matter? If you are going to do a hatchet job at least do it right and quote me saying something that you are accusing me of because the post you have quoted shows that I was interested in Anark's perspective on other players playstyle, at no point in this post did I say that experience did not matter. Other players have said it doesn't matter though but that is their opinion and just because their methodology is different to mine doesn't make either wrong.

One of my older (I don't rely on it anymore) sure-fire scum slips is this: somebody setting up further lynches based on how others flip. Only scum really knows how others are going to flip, so when he says: "I'm willing to keep the pressure on mitch even if it will make me look scummy if in the event that he flips non-scum.", it stands out. Especially since the tune changed overnight.

So would you rather my vote was flip-flopping around, because to me that is a scum tell. The "tune changed" as you put it because, as I stated quite plainly, there was no traction for a Mitch vote and I didn't want to be wasting my time, which could be put to better use.

I agree with BuJaber's FOS on Legion for not picking up on little clues.

I would love to know what these "little clues" are that some folk seem to think have been dropped as I know exactly how Wild Pokemon work in this game. But then again that statement is as pointless as these "little clues" because as has been stated by other players and the Mod a sample Wild Pokemon role PM was sent to Scum. Even before the Mod dropped that particular bombshell anything Mitch said with regards to Wild Pokemon role or PM had already been stated by someone else. Also trying to say "I'm WP" is equally pointless as it is essentially the Vanilla role in this set-up.
(or you know there exists a third option; that I may be a bit dumb and not good at this game, did you consider that?)

Spoiler

Finally, the thing that made me certain:

I KNOW psychic is not one of the wild Pokemon types, which is why I'm suggesting it would be a special role. Read that death scene again. Suicidal mind control. Purple glow around the eyes. Sounds like psychic interference to me, and the most likely character lorewise would be Mewtwo. Again, all I'm doing is speculating on fluff.

I agree with this, there is definitely a Mewtwo out there acting as an independent faction. If you watch the pokemon film (can't remember which one) with mewtwo in it he is shown as a sentient pokemon with an intelligence that rivals or is even superior to humans. When he takes control of other pokemon in the film there is a purple glow around their eyes.

The only player who mentioned MewTwo Day 1 was Skoffin. It follows that the only player to be certain that MewTwo is in the game would also be on Team Rocket.

What? Just what? What does the bold part matter? So what if Skoffin said that, I didn't say anything about MewTwo until D2 and that was after Exile. Have you even bothered to look at my reasoning? Do you have an alternative reason as to why Charmander's eyes glowed purple before he committed suicide?

[legionnare]

Spoiler

Happy New Year to all!

A few other notes in response to earlier questions:

nag - whips appeared in the scene and I thought it was vine whip; Poliwag had purple glow, making me think of Mewtwo recruit

going after mitch in the night is pointless because, whether scum or town, he will hang himself if you give the game long enough

Over the last few days, my perspective has changed on a lot of players. It's amazing what you can notice when you just read the game. I think legion is TR.

unvote vote legion

As asked by others... why? I agree legion is one of the more likely TR members, but explaining why you think so would be helpful, especially if you expect to convince anyone else. His OMGUS vote on you doesn't look so good on his part though.

Two things Hotshot;
1) Why do agree that I am the more likely TR members? You say that Yoshi should explain but you fail to do so yourself?
2)Why do think it is OMGUS? Do you think my reasoning is unsound?

[Skittles!]

That is exactly what scum would say...

Yeah I largely agree with Skittles' points on mitch but I do question the motivation behind it.

Motivation is that he hasn't responded to my queries about why Skoffin would be iffy on voting for both Fircoal AND Mitch, despite having ample time. Mitch has been cocky the whole game and from my POV, there's literally been no reason as to why he would be like that unless he felt very comfortable in a TR or cult position.

We have a deadline, and we can still consider other cases if we want - seems like half a dozen people have stated "I don't like this but I got no choice'. Well, you do. Make your case while you still have time. Even if no one goes for it now chances are you may be dead by tomorrow and won't get to say it then - may as well have it out there for use for D2, D3 etc

I have a funny feeling about both the chu and mitch wagons, and I still find others more suspicious for the time being.
Chu's claim is interesting - Lapras is a highly famous pokemon so it could have been used, it would be something highly risky for someone to fake aswell. But I'm not sure how it might fit in this game. Lapras does get some decent moves later on though. As some people have yet to post, someone may still yet to counterclaim. [/color]

She actively tried to push people into considering other players to lynch, why would she do this other than if Mitch was also scum? Mitch has seemed like a non-entity the whole game, there was no reason for her to try and save him and even voting for Talapus.

I I think Dakky and Talapus are working together in some capacity...

Oh Skittles! Popcorn is popped and the beer is cold. Please enlighten me and connect the dots that I clearly don't see...after all I love a good laugh. So, entertain me. I am waiting to be impressed

Numerous people have said throughout the game that it is possible you are a trainer more than a WP, and until the last page I connected you and Dakky together due to me thinking that BuJ was the person that Gary tried to catch. Obviously it is DoomYoshi instead of BuJ, but I still think you are a trainer of some sorts. I'm not going to vote for you cause I honestly don't think it's worth my time to vote out a trainer.

In light of recent events I'm going to unvote because it's obvious people don't think there's any point wasting time on voting out a goat or a possible scum.

DoomYoshi's reaction to finding out that Dakky and Gary tried to catch him is very interesting, it seems like he didn't want to be caught out somehow and also on top of that, in his defensive posts, he instead targets legionnaire. What a mess. Trying to deflect attention away from yourself while also trying to defend yourself is a serious sign of a scumtell IMO. vote DoomYoshi.

I'm also going to FOS Legionnaire again, because Yoshi does bring up some interesting points as well, and Legionnaire does react similarly to how Yoshi does when placed under pressure.

[Ragian]

@Strike, fair enough. That's how you see it. I would vote Samlen, Hotshot, or Newguy at this point. And I have Doom and Legion as outsiders. I also like how you give me grief about being fluffy while you are more than happy to participate in hypotheses on the setup that no one can check anyway.

I even think after what dakky just put about Doom, he'd be more than an outsider. Legion's response to Doom's vote on him, however, also warrants some attention. Looks very OMGUS. And the reason looks crap too. As others noted, I think Doom only had one vote on him. No reason to shift attention away.

@dakky, have you cleared up with the mod if there's a difference between "failed" (because Doom is not a Pokemon) and "escaped" (because Doom is a Pokemon)? Oh, you answered BuJ about this later in the thread. Alright. I like this case the best, though. It's down to mechanics and reason, not something flavour-wise.

unvote vote Doom

Apart from what dakky has laid out, Doom has played somewhat of an erratic game, I feel, with loads of one-liners based on little or nothing. Incidentally, his thoughts on Legion constitute his best play in the game so far. I still feel, however, that Doom is the right candidate.

[BuJaber]

Skittles -- In my eyes they can't both be scum. Voting for Yoshi and FOSing Legion just sounds like you want to cover all bases. Now you could be playing safe as a wild pokemon, and honestly I'm inclined to believe that, but it is still a safe play. I think we have to choose one over the other.

Like I said I don't think they would both be scum. That would be insane. Each of them is being overly defensive so early in day 2 and voting for each other. Considering that scum already lost 2 of their own, do you honestly think that 2 of the remaining ones would pull something like this off? I can't speak for legion's play style but that is something that I can't see Doom doing ever.

Ragian - You're ready to vote for sam, hotshot, or new guy; but choose to vote for doom which is a relatively new case? I have a theory as to why, but it is in your best interest that I don't say it out loud. But maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "outsiders".

Here are my vote candidates in order:

1) Hotshot - where my vote is currently.
2) Mitch - Because I realize if he did indeed level up then it would not be easy to kill him during the night. Also like I said earlier I've changed my mind about the likelihood of him being wild pokemon.
3) Legion - If forced to pick between doom and legion, legion seems more scummy to me. Also one of them getting lynched will give us insight since a number of players are now commenting/voting on them. I'd rather follow my gut and sacrifice the one that I feel is more likely to flip scum.

I really hope I'm right about Doom -- it will hopefully redeem my horrible mislynch on Talapus in WoT Mafia.

[madmitch]

after rereading again, who was controlling WCG? someone made attack the crowd of pokemons. How the wheel turns,all the people except sam who voted for me are now turning on Doom I believe 1 of them must be Gary, most likely Kwanton because I still don't trust Legion

[strike wolf]

Happy New Year to all!

A few other notes in response to earlier questions:

nag - whips appeared in the scene and I thought it was vine whip; Poliwag had purple glow, making me think of Mewtwo recruit

going after mitch in the night is pointless because, whether scum or town, he will hang himself if you give the game long enough

Over the last few days, my perspective has changed on a lot of players. It's amazing what you can notice when you just read the game. I think legion is TR.

unvote vote legion

As asked by others... why? I agree legion is one of the more likely TR members, but explaining why you think so would be helpful, especially if you expect to convince anyone else. His OMGUS vote on you doesn't look so good on his part though.

Going back to this...yeah the way you worded how you questioned Legion feels like your scum behavior a seemingly helpful but ultimately non-committal post.

@Strike, fair enough. That's how you see it. I would vote Samlen, Hotshot, or Newguy at this point. And I have Doom and Legion as outsiders. I also like how you give me grief about being fluffy while you are more than happy to participate in hypotheses on the setup that no one can check anyway.

Ummm what? I have may be made a comment here or there on set up but I've talked about it less than most others. So I really don't know how you are getting that idea in your head. So yeah, deflecting with a false accusation sounds like a good addition to why I think you're scummy today. Beyond that I like the rest of your post.

[Ragian]

Quick phone reply for BuJ. You need to see my post as building as I read. First, I was answering strike who found me non-committal. Then, when reading the rest, I found Doom to be a better case despite only being an outsider for now. It's fine that you think I'm Gary. Am not, though. (I presume that's what you meant.)

@strike,I never said you were the worst (and you saw my attempt at a case against Nag D1). I'm just saying that if you're going for fluff, there's plenty going around.

[DoomYoshi]

Throwing a Pokeball at a perfectly happy Wild Pokemon is an attempt to ruin the game and suck that player onto the cult side.

<cut>

I still don't understand how is it ruining the game? It's perfectly normal mafia action. Being on cult side, you have a game inside a game, trying not to change what you already said and not reveal yourself you were introduced to a cult.. I find that interesting and funny mechanics. You obviously don't.

Just btw, perfectly happy Wild Pokemon isn't going to save you, as that is irrelevant claim. Everyone can now claim WP when we know there are a lot of them in the game.

And trying to break momentum on my case by commenting another one while you "don't normally do cases" is obviously an attempt of defending. Being too defensive will get you lynched, been there, done that.

You don't actually have a case. Your entire case is based around a lie. You said that mandy PMed you the results of another player's night actions and then you asked for clarification on another player's night actions. I asked Mandy if I could get clarification on other players' night actions and he said it doesn't work that way.

You really do disgust me. If you had any spine, you would've attacked your trainer with your night action and hid in the corner like the despicable piece of slime you are. Instead, you come out here proud that you have given up your freedom and become a traitor to Pokemon everywhere. You are a shameless shell of a shill and you deserve to die in a ditch. I only hope that when you kill your cult recruiter trainer that you will revert to the wild and hopefully then repent of your revolting ways.

Haha you are the joke, Anark has been playing mafia here for nearly 10 years

What does it matter how long someone has played for? I've been playing WoW for just as long, doesn't mean I'm any good. The measure of someone's ability is there content within the current discussion as each game is new and unique, experience only really comes in handy when you have a good knowledge on someones meta, so how about Anark sharing his opinion on the meta play of each player he has experience of?

legion, this is the post where you said experience doesn't matter. You can't have it both ways. Either metas matter or they don't. metas come from the amount of times players have played (with each other).

On the MewTwo thing, I agree that he is probably in the game, but you said "definitely" in the game. Skoffin seems to have known he was in the game which makes sense considering the Gio/MewTwo storyline. How a player who claims to know nothing about Pokemon all of a sudden can pick up a subtle clue and say "definitely" is beyond me. You have knowledge that wild Pokemon don't have.

[dakky21]

You don't actually have a case. Your entire case is based around a lie. You said that mandy PMed you the results of another player's night actions and then you asked for clarification on another player's night actions. I asked Mandy if I could get clarification on other players' night actions and he said it doesn't work that way.

You really do disgust me. If you had any spine, you would've attacked your trainer with your night action and hid in the corner like the despicable piece of slime you are. Instead, you come out here proud that you have given up your freedom and become a traitor to Pokemon everywhere. You are a shameless shell of a shill and you deserve to die in a ditch. I only hope that when you kill your cult recruiter trainer that you will revert to the wild and hopefully then repent of your revolting ways.

WOOOOW

First, I hope you mean all of this in character here. IRL this would sound like a threat.
Second, it doesn't work that way because I'm a part of the TEAM and you are not obviously.
Third, that means you're the mystery 3rd Party Pokemon named " ? " without the quotation marks.
Fourth, I know, the attack is the best defense. Good luck with it at this point.

Can I have a double vote Mandy? Didn't see a weaker defense in a long time.

[mandalorian2298]

Vote Count

Samlen (2) - Hotshot, Nagerous

Mitch (1) - Exile,

legionnare (2) - Mitch, DoomYoshi

Ragian (1) - Strike

Hotshot (3) - BuJaber, Anark, Samlen

DoomYoshi (5) - dakky, legionnare, Kwan, Skittles, Ragian


With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

*Flips the official Poke Coin* Sorry, no double vote dakky.

[Talapus]

I'd like to hear from Tal and Sam about their thoughts on this. Legion has stated his position.

Oh god, you mean about my interpretation of the night scene? I thinks it pretty clear I'm a whole lot of unaware of what to think as I already questioned my night action and result. Can give it a go if this is what you are looking for but I'm way out of my comfort zone on this subject.

[strike wolf]

I'd like to hear from Tal and Sam about their thoughts on this. Legion has stated his position.

Oh god, you mean about my interpretation of the night scene? I thinks it pretty clear I'm a whole lot of unaware of what to think as I already questioned my night action and result. Can give it a go if this is what you are looking for but I'm way out of my comfort zone on this subject.

I was talking about Dakky's revelation about Doom. Considering you posted jusr a few posts after it but didn't even acknowledge it.

[legionnare]

@Yoshi fair enough with my post about experience, I had forgotten about that post.

As for "definitely", I say that as it is the only explanation for the way that scene was written, there is no other interpretation that fits and you have not provided an adequate counter explanation. Skoffin said it because TR probably knew MewTwo was in the game, that was her slip-up. Two vastly different reasons for the same wording, do you not think that it is in the realm of possibilities that I say it that way because I am so certain of it being true, as other players in this game and any other are certain of the identity of a role in a game based on their interpretation of events?

[HotShot53]

When doom first said that dakky was trying to ruin his game, I read it as that he was upset that dakky named who the capture failed on, knowing it would lead to his lynch, not that they tried the capture. News flash to doom... when someone has to do an action that helps their cause, their goal is to help their cause, not to ruin your game... you are way overreacting there. Since I assume you know that a captured pokemon obviously doesn't control their own attack and so can't attack their master, I'm assuming that last diatribe was just for show. Of course, I think you changed what you meant by dakky trying to ruin your game, since I think you are trying to avoid the initial reason you said it because that basically acknowledges you are not a wild pokemon, and people focusing on you will cause you to lose... since no-one is really defending you, my guess is you are not a trainer with your own pokemon, so that leaves you as either MewTwo or TR. So I will unvote, vote Doom

[DoomYoshi]

Dakky, you are not part of a team. You are a slave. The rest of the Wild Pokemon can save you, if you would only let them.

News flash to Hotshot ... throwing a Pokeball isn't a standard action. It's an act of cyber bullying, terrorism, treason and larceny. It's the crime that all other crimes build up to. It's like you the crime so heinous that not even Hitler or bin Laden would attempt.

[Ragian]

What's going on here? Why the dramatic language?

[BuJaber]

I don't know but it's hilarious.

[legionnare]

I think Doom may have lost his mind.