Game of Thrones (series spoiling only!)

[betiko]

Cersei and Jaime have to get busy or else the Lannisters will disappear

What s wrong with tyrion?

Tyrion should ve fucked that filthy sansa so she could have a nice blond lannister heir instead of bolton's bastard's bastard

[tkr4lf]

I guess the soldiers of the Vale would stick with the armies of the north, but who knows what Littlefinger would do then.

Little finger will side with whomever he thinks is going to win, as a matter of survival and then plot behind their backs.

So really it'll be most of Westeros vs. the Lannisters, the Riverlands , the Crown Lands and whatever bit of the Iron Islands Euron controls now. Doesn't seem too much of a challenge, to be honest.

And The Others. You seem to be forgetting about them. Dany can sweep right over Cersei and what's left of the Crown, but The Others are another story all together. The Night King is a magical creature as are the dragons. In the end I think Westeroes will be in ruins, all the dragons will be dead, The Others defeated and whomever emerges as Azora High (or whatever it's called) will be dead, sacrificed to destroy The Others.

The Azora fellow could be Jon, Dany or even Jamie. Azora is supposed to stab his sword into someone he loves to create Lightbringer. Jamie stabbing Cersei to death would work. Also, Jon stabbing Sansa to death would work as well. Or Dany stabbing Jon to death (but honestly, Dany doesn't seem to really love anyone, so who knows?), or maybe Jon stabbing Dany to death. Either way, Dany might not live long after taking Westeroes. Cersei is certain to die eventually and it ain't looking good for Jon to live through it all either. I don't see Jamie living much longer than Cersei either. Maybe a murder suicide, who the hell knows.

It will be interesting I guess.

And Littlefinger from the show is just a shadow of his awesome self from the books. The show has screwed Littlefinger up. All he does is make mistake after mistake and act impulsively on the show. He never does that kind of thing in the books. Ever.

Well, I didn't consider the Others because I was more referring to the political war for Westeros. Of course, the real war will then begin.

I concede to your knowledge of the series over mine, because I know nothing about Azora and the Lightbringer, etc. other than the tiny bit we've heard from the show.

This certainly isn't set in stone, bc this is GoT after all, but all signs seem to point to Jon being the Azora or whatever. The Red Woman was convinced it was Stannis, and then it is revealed that he was just a stepping stone for her to get to Jon. Obviously the Red God has some sort of plans for Jon, otherwise why bring him back from the grave.

As I said, I know nothing from the books, but I don't think of Littlefinger as impuslive and making mistake after mistake. Yeah, he's made them, but he also set the whole series into motion by having Jon Arryn or whatever his name was murdered, and then managed to have the King assassinated at his own wedding. That's pretty impressive in and of itself. But again, I defer to your knowledge, since I haven't read the books. That kinda sucks that they dumbed him down or whatever for the show. He's an awesome character, and I'd like to see what he's really capable of.


You are correct though, it will indeed be interesting.

I am bummed to hear about the next two seasons though. Has anybody else heard that? They're only doing 13 more episodes, split up over two seasons. I assume 7 in the next season and then 6 in the final season. That's kinda lame. I already feel like 10 episodes per season isn't enough.

[betiko]

By the way.. The baratheon are now extinct (maybe some robert bastards somewhere?)... The tyrells are about to be extinct, the martells only have bastard females left, the greyjoys are close from extinction as soon as the uncle is killed, the lannisters are close from extinction, the starks too as the only valid heirs are female....

Only Jon Targaryen is in a good position to perpetrate his name.

After what you said TK... I think the best ruling family would ve been the Tyrells. They had a bit of all required. The Starks are not fitted to rule. Just their northener province full of wildlings. You can't compare that to highgarden.

[tkr4lf]

Isn't Bran still a valid heir of the Starks?

[patches70]

I am bummed to hear about the next two seasons though. Has anybody else heard that? They're only doing 13 more episodes, split up over two seasons. I assume 7 in the next season and then 6 in the final season. That's kinda lame. I already feel like 10 episodes per season isn't enough.

Yeah, that does kinda suck. I heard that even though there will be fewer episodes in the next two season the episodes themselves will be longer than the average 10 epi run times. That's the early word at least.

Littlefinger in the books is beyond awesome in his scheming. In the show, for instance, we learn from Peter when he talks to Sansa that what he wants is the Iron Throne with her by his side. Now, consider, if he really intended that, do you think it was very smart of him to sell Sansa to Ramsay? That pretty much goes completely counter to his stated goal. Sansa has to know that as well so she has a choice, either Littlefinger was sincere that he wants her by his side on the Iron Throne, in which case Littlefinger is a complete moron for selling Sansa to Ramsay, or, Littlefinger is full of shit when he tells Sansa he wants her with him on the Iron Throne. If it's the latter than she sees right through that lie because he done went and sold her to Ramsay. If it's the former, Sansa knows Littlefinger is a moron.
Littlefinger knows better than to reveal such information or fall into such a catch 22, except in the show apparently.

Book Littlefinger would have never done such a thing, book Littlefinger is keeping Sansa very close and very safe, he wouldn't and didn't turn Sansa over to Ramsay. His plan in that instance was brilliant, though quite disturbed. The character that ended up getting sold to Ramsay by Littlefinger was omitted from the TV series though.

That's just one example. Another is earlier in the tv series, Littlefinger has thrown a few digs at Cersei about her banging Jamie, letting Cersei know that he knows about it and antagonizing Cersei at the same time. He did it twice in the series even though there was absolutely zero benefit in doing such a thing. The first time he did it Cersei has one of her King's Guard grab Littlefinger by the hair and was about to cut his throat when Cersei decided to let Littlefinger live. Book Littlefinger would have never done such a thing, he knows better than to poke an insane lion with a stick especially if there is no benefit to it.
How he handled Lysa in the tv series was messed up as well. He had zero back up plan, if Sansa hadn't backed his story up he was going to find himself taking a short walk out the moondoor. He lucked out, book Littlefinger doesn't luck out, he's already worked everything out.

Lots more examples of Littlefinger not doing the smart thing in the series, but he is still a good character, just that he could have been so much better, so much more devious if he'd been written correctly in the series. In the series he acts impulsive and his schemes come off as being more attributed to luck rather than careful planning.

[patches70]

Isn't Bran still a valid heir of the Starks?

Absolutely. In the season finale it seems that every law of feudal succession is ignored. Bran is the rightful heir to Winterfell and when he shows back up it'll be a problem. At the moment no one knows Bran is still alive though, so at least that instance is forgivable.

[muy_thaiguy]

Isn't Bran still a valid heir of the Starks?

Absolutely. In the season finale it seems that every law of feudal succession is ignored. Bran is the rightful heir to Winterfell and when he shows back up it'll be a problem. At the moment no one knows Bran is still alive though, so at least that instance is forgivable.

True. It's assumed he was killed, and at the best, missing. Though, being several years younger than Jon, and a cripple, I don't think there'll be too much rabble rousing about him showing up. If Jon was legitimized (one way or another), and being the eldest male heir, that usually would put him up front and center.

Either way though, glad to see that Sansa has changed since season/book 1, where she looked down on Jon for being a bastard (none of the other siblings did).

[Army of GOD]

if Cersei dies, who would succeed her?

not that we'd find out because I assume Dany will just take it directly

[muy_thaiguy]

if Cersei dies, who would succeed her?

not that we'd find out because I assume Dany will just take it directly

Well, there are a number of other Lannisters, just not in King's Landing. They're not exactly a small clan.

[strike wolf]

You give Littlefinger just a bit too mUch credit in the planning department. The death of Lysa Baylish was just as improvised in the books as in the show. He was just lucky to have a scape goat at arms reach and smart enough to get both the scapegoat and Sansa to rehearse what he wanted them to say. That's where Littlefinger really shines. He is a great planner but ultimately he thrives on chaos and is a master improvisor. He's also batshit crazy and would be horrible for the kingdom, likely to burn everything down on his way to the top. Not in a so he can reconstruct it from the ashes sort of way.

[sempaispellcheck]

BTW - the name of the hero who wielded Lightbringer is Azor Ahai.
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Azor_Ahai

In case anyone was wondering.

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[Army of GOD]

if Cersei dies, who would succeed her?

not that we'd find out because I assume Dany will just take it directly

Well, there are a number of other Lannisters, just not in King's Landing. They're not exactly a small clan.

Lannisters don't have any claim to the throne (Cersei married OUT of thr Lannisters and into the Baratheons). They can fight for it, but a Baratheon would supercede them in terms of the law

[sempaispellcheck]

if Cersei dies, who would succeed her?

not that we'd find out because I assume Dany will just take it directly

Well, there are a number of other Lannisters, just not in King's Landing. They're not exactly a small clan.

Lannisters don't have any claim to the throne (Cersei married OUT of thr Lannisters and into the Baratheons). They can fight for it, but a Baratheon would supercede them in terms of the law

Except that there are no more legitimate Baratheons. Robert and his brothers are all dead, Robert had no legitimate children, Renly had no children at all, and Stannis had his only child burned alive.

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[mrswdk]

Tommen was the last heir of Robert, and given he's dead and there are no more Baratheons there is no one with any kind of 'legal' family claim to the throne. So now it just falls to whomever can come up with a reasonable justification and has enough power to get everyone else to accept it, which Cersei has done as the mother of the king.

As various characters have mentioned during the course of the program, pretty much everyone outside the court doesn't actually care about these political games and is happy with a ruler who they think will be good for them. So as long as the person taking charge seems decent, it doesn't really matter what half-baked excuse they come up with for taking the throne.

No one cares about the intricacies of 'legitimacy'. No one cared when Robert Baratheon's signed will was ripped up and ignored. No one cared that Dany was the 'legitimate' heir to the throne - that's why she's had to wait 6 seasons until she could amass an enormous army and 3 dragons before returning to Westoros. No one in the North cares that Jon Snow has no 'legitimate' claim to being King of the North. If you can offer the right people the right rewards, you win.

So Jon Snow's lineage doesn't actually matter at all.

[betiko]

Isn't Bran still a valid heir of the Starks?

Absolutely. In the season finale it seems that every law of feudal succession is ignored. Bran is the rightful heir to Winterfell and when he shows back up it'll be a problem. At the moment no one knows Bran is still alive though, so at least that instance is forgivable.

For now!
my point is that in the future it will be a problem cause.... he just can't get it up! he just can't get it up!

[sempaispellcheck]

Isn't Bran still a valid heir of the Starks?

Absolutely. In the season finale it seems that every law of feudal succession is ignored. Bran is the rightful heir to Winterfell and when he shows back up it'll be a problem. At the moment no one knows Bran is still alive though, so at least that instance is forgivable.

For now!
my point is that in the future it will be a problem cause.... he just can't get it up! he just can't get it up!

I don't think we know that for certain.
Stephen Hawking had kids, so I wouldn't say it's impossible.

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[Army of GOD]

if Cersei dies, who would succeed her?

not that we'd find out because I assume Dany will just take it directly

Well, there are a number of other Lannisters, just not in King's Landing. They're not exactly a small clan.

Lannisters don't have any claim to the throne (Cersei married OUT of thr Lannisters and into the Baratheons). They can fight for it, but a Baratheon would supercede them in terms of the law

Except that there are no more legitimate Baratheons. Robert and his brothers are all dead, Robert had no legitimate children, Renly had no children at all, and Stannis had his only child burned alive.

sempai

it goes up from Robert's parents and then over before it jumps to the Lannisters

[muy_thaiguy]

if Cersei dies, who would succeed her?

not that we'd find out because I assume Dany will just take it directly

Well, there are a number of other Lannisters, just not in King's Landing. They're not exactly a small clan.

Lannisters don't have any claim to the throne (Cersei married OUT of thr Lannisters and into the Baratheons). They can fight for it, but a Baratheon would supercede them in terms of the law

Except that there are no more legitimate Baratheons. Robert and his brothers are all dead, Robert had no legitimate children, Renly had no children at all, and Stannis had his only child burned alive.

sempai

it goes up from Robert's parents and then over before it jumps to the Lannisters

I think what's his face from season 1 (friends with Arya) is still rowing his boat, gently down the stream.

if Cersei dies, who would succeed her?

not that we'd find out because I assume Dany will just take it directly

Well, there are a number of other Lannisters, just not in King's Landing. They're not exactly a small clan.

Lannisters don't have any claim to the throne (Cersei married OUT of thr Lannisters and into the Baratheons). They can fight for it, but a Baratheon would supercede them in terms of the law

Just going by who would take over Casterly Rock with the main line of Lannisters dead, is all.

[strike wolf]

Stannis killed his one legitimate heir.
Robert had no legitimate heirs
Renley had no heirs.
Their parents are dead.
Olenna Tyrells is the last Tyrell. Sorry but the show does say at multiple points that Loras is the heir to high garden. If Willas exists in the shows universe he has been forgotten about. Olenna's talk with the Sand Snakes even suggests that she is the last living Tyrell.

Some predictions. Euron will either meet Danys outnumbered fleet at sea in what could be GoT's great naval battle. Or if Dany arrives in Westerns before his fleet meets hers. Side with Cersei to keep his hopes of the crown alive.

Melissandre will offer her services to Dany. Varys and Tyrion will probably advise against trusting her but for plot's sake she will be let in until they meet up with Jon and Jon tells Dany how she burnt an innocent child to death. She will also advise Dany to ally with Jon in the fight with the others rather than oppose him. Tyrion and Varys will back up that Jon Snow and the North would make good allies.

Upon meeting Bran will tell them that they are related. Question is did Rhaegar legitimize Jon prenatal?

The Wall will fall and the White walkers will start resurrecting a lot of the important people who died in the series.

[patches70]

Question is did Rhaegar legitimize Jon prenatal?

I doubt it, Rhaegar was the Prince, only the King (or ruling monarch) can legitimize bastards. I'm sure Rhaegar would have had his father legitimize Jon or he'd do it himself once becoming King himself, but he died on the Trident.
Ramsay was legitimized by the Crown at Roose's request if we remember.

[waauw]

Question is did Rhaegar legitimize Jon prenatal?

I doubt it, Rhaegar was the Prince, only the King (or ruling monarch) can legitimize bastards. I'm sure Rhaegar would have had his father legitimize Jon or he'd do it himself once becoming King himself, but he died on the Trident.
Ramsay was legitimized by the Crown at Roose's request if we remember.

Not to mention that he was married to Elya Martell, so Jon's mere existence might have been a bit of an afront to the crown princess.

[patches70]

Not to mention that he was married to Elya Martell, so Jon's mere existence might have been a bit of an afront to the crown princess.

Yeah, that would be a bit of a problem as well.

[tkr4lf]

So Jon Snow's lineage doesn't actually matter at all.

Maybe not in the traditional way, but it's still quite an important fact. Whether he's a legitimate Targaryen or not, he still has Targaryen blood running through his veins. Which means (correct me if I'm wrong here) that he is one of two people left in the world that have Targaryen blood.

Is it true that you have to have Targaryen blood to be able to ride a dragon? That's my limited understanding of it. If so, then his lineage is still a pretty big deal.

[patches70]

So Jon Snow's lineage doesn't actually matter at all.

Maybe not in the traditional way, but it's still quite an important fact. Whether he's a legitimate Targaryen or not, he still has Targaryen blood running through his veins. Which means (correct me if I'm wrong here) that he is one of two people left in the world that have Targaryen blood.

Is it true that you have to have Targaryen blood to be able to ride a dragon? That's my limited understanding of it. If so, then his lineage is still a pretty big deal.

A Targaryen has to have a specific chromosome set to be a dragon rider. There have been Targaryens with plenty of Targaryen blood and still couldn't bond with a dragon and be a rider. There are some Targaryens that couldn't be a dragon rider but they could hatch dragons. Another specific chromosome set is needed to entice dragon eggs to hatch. And the rarest of all Targaryens are the ones who can both hatch and ride dragons, Dany being one of those.

That is why the Targaryens intermarried, they were creating dragon riders and dragon hatchers. The Targaryens also looked outside their bloodlines for wargs as well to introduce into the bloodline. Lyanna being most likely the latter and was probably part of the reason Rhaegar was attracted to her. Rhaegar was trying to create a version of the "Prince who was Promised". He studied constantly about old prophecies and apparently came to the conclusion that he had to have a child with Lyanna Stark. But all of that is very shrouded in mystery and we are waiting for further enlightenment from the books.
Jon probably has some pretty hefty dragon abilities if Rhaegar was right. He'll likely be at minimum a dragon rider and quite possibly be able to warg directly into a dragon, which would be a truly horrifying creature. The power of a dragon combined with the ambition, calculating of a human mind. It would truly be virtually unstoppable, a weapon of mass destruction above and beyond just a dragon and it's rider.

[sempaispellcheck]

Which means (correct me if I'm wrong here) that he is one of two people left in the world that have Targaryen blood.

In the books, Rhaegar's son Aegon is still alive, having been replaced with a commoner's baby before the sack of King's Landing. I don't think that is true in the show, though - too many storylines to follow already.
It is fairly strongly hinted in the books and the show that Varys may be a Targaryen bastard - see the bit with the red priestess and the voice that spoke from the flames when his "parts" where tossed into the fire.
There is also a fan theory that Tyrion is a Targaryen as well, but I'm not sure I believe that one.

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