[POLY] 1st POLY Clan Challenge - FALL Wins 26-15 Final 6/28

[Vid_FISO]

it's taken a few days but now have found 12 willing to play so FISO will enter

FISO

1st contact - Vid_FISO
2nd contact - CatchersMitt14

[Tazzy_J]

I think the restrictions and game load might be putting some off. I've only just managed to get 12 players interested and when I pointed out it was possibly 20 games per round (say in two batches of 10) it is quite a bit to less regular players...

[Keefie]

I think the restrictions and game load might be putting some off. I've only just managed to get 12 players interested and when I pointed out it was possibly 20 games per round (say in two batches of 10) it is quite a bit to less regular players...

I think I need to read the rules more. We only have 13 players interested, so that's a massive game load. Ok for 1v1 but massive for Poly.

[uckuki]

I never thought 5 games would be too heavy. players can pick small and medium
sized maps with settings that play out quickly. if they pick hive or world 2.1 then
it could feel busy.
restrictions can be negotiated, for example number of batches. especially now that
it looks there will be only 3 rounds of play. that gives each war an extra month.
[7/8] one more and we are in business.

[Keefie]

I never thought 5 games would be too heavy. players can pick small and medium
sized maps with settings that play out quickly. if they pick hive or world 2.1 then
it could feel busy.
restrictions can be negotiated, for example number of batches. especially now that
it looks there will be only 3 rounds of play. that gives each war an extra month.
[7/8] one more and we are in business.

With only 13 players we'll have some with 15/20 games per round.

[uckuki]

should we close the signups once we have 8 or give few more days for those
clans that are on the fence?

[uckuki]

Note: this edition is a test run, we'll try to fix all the glitches that might come up.
It's impossible to think of all the possible situations & scenarios that might happen
ahead of time.

2 issues came up:
unlimited forts in poly games, should we have a lesser restriction? if not for Poly(4)
then for Poly(2)? or, just keep it as it is?

also, 1 player can play 2 home sets - do we want 10 unique maps, or all 5 from 1 set
can be repeats?

most important: what do you guys say we make it best of 3 series, Poly(2), Poly(3) and Poly(4)?

[gorehound]

With a War, Random and Clan League games and the Olympics, together with a friendly scrimmage set all happening already at the moment, AFOS finds itself too busy to join this event.

Wishing all of you a fun time and suitable plaudits.

gorehound

[Vid_FISO]

Probably should have asked before, but anyway am I understanding this correctly?

set 1 - 10 home matches - each match 2x Poly (2), 2x Poly (3), 1x Poly (4) - 5 different maps/ individual match (but in theory if all different players same maps/ settings for each individual would be permitted)

away - individuals match ups, away team play X plays all 5 games v home team player A

set 2 - 10 home matches - can be identical to set 1 if so desired

away - as above

[Tazzy_J]

Personally I think reduce the game load to 12 home, 12 away and tb. Given all my team are picking same set twice makes more sense for all to play one series home and away... That seems better than dropping to series of 3 then having people doubling up the same series again.

I'd remove restrictions on unlimited given its poly not 1v1 as someone said before.

[Donelladan]

FORMAT
Single-elimination tournament. 41 series, each series 1 point.

WARSar any changes to rules & settings. War Thread should be updated at least once a week, so it doesn’t look fallow. Winning clan sends pm to TO once war is decided.
All games will be POLY 1v1s, played in best of 5 series. Each clan will have 20 home + 20 away game series. Each series will be a best of 5 consisting of 2 POLY(2), 2 POLY(3) and 1 POLY(4). No map repeats in individual sets; No clan map limits. 41st series played on Random (auto, sequential, 24hr, no spoils, chained, sunny, no trench), best of 5 consisting of 2 POLY(2), 2 POLY(3), 1 POLY(4). Clan’s 1st Contact will create the games and invite home players.

I really do not understand that.
That 1vs1 are set up in best of 5, I can understand, because 1vs1 is just pure luck settings anyway and you need best of 5 to try to make strategy prevail over luck.
But poly game are exactly like team games.
Why don't you make it simply a 41 games, 20 home 20 away, done with it ?

Like, I played a tournament recently, based on the 1 man clan idea ( from benga I think).
It was 1 player choose 8 homes poly, the other 8 home away, that was mini-war format, that was nice and really competitive.
I think the same could be done here, and justa take 20 home 20 away, but 1 game each not best of 5.

As a player I could be interested, maybe I could take 20 games ( 2X 5 homes and 2X 5 away ) at once, but even for me that looks like a lot, and I am the player in LHDD with the highest game load. I know many of my clan mate are below 20 total active game all the time.

I think this can be interesting but the best of 5 formula you take is definitely keeping some people out.

[IcePack]

I don't think 41 games works for clans. In wars that is 2-4 people per game. So each 41 game war has many participants.
41 games @ 2 home 2 away could be very few players total.

[Donelladan]

I don't think 41 games works for clans. In wars that is 2-4 people per game. So each 41 game war has many participants.
41 games @ 2 home 2 away could be very few players total.

I am not 100% sure I understood you, but for example, the last "big" war LHDD made was against fall. 61 games.
The player with the highest game load had 20 games , 2nd 17 games, then everyone had less. We had 8 players with 10 games or more.

Here 41 games means 205 games total, if I assume 12 players, it means 17 games per person. That is more than in a usual war.
Especially since this competition isn't a main concern for clan, it only comes in extra.


To put my point of view in perspective, I'll quote a clan player responding in a the tribe forum :

but seven poly games at a time is a large load for some players.

I agree with you that if we only make 41 games, it will be fast. But isn't it better anyway ?

The intent here is to have fun and show depth and breadth of clans, so it’s intended to not have a "specialist" dominating the challenges per se, with a fun & quick bracket tournament.

[IcePack]

Right, the original proposed is 205 total.
x3 per series is 123.
X1 series is 41

Lindax can help guide uckuki w any feedback, but my first impression is 1 game series wouldn't work

[Keefie]

3 per seris would be a lot more manageable.

[josko.ri]

FORMAT
Single-elimination tournament. 41 series, each series 1 point.

WARSar any changes to rules & settings. War Thread should be updated at least once a week, so it doesn’t look fallow. Winning clan sends pm to TO once war is decided.
All games will be POLY 1v1s, played in best of 5 series. Each clan will have 20 home + 20 away game series. Each series will be a best of 5 consisting of 2 POLY(2), 2 POLY(3) and 1 POLY(4). No map repeats in individual sets; No clan map limits. 41st series played on Random (auto, sequential, 24hr, no spoils, chained, sunny, no trench), best of 5 consisting of 2 POLY(2), 2 POLY(3), 1 POLY(4). Clan’s 1st Contact will create the games and invite home players.

I really do not understand that.
That 1vs1 are set up in best of 5, I can understand, because 1vs1 is just pure luck settings anyway and you need best of 5 to try to make strategy prevail over luck.
But poly game are exactly like team games.
Why don't you make it simply a 41 games, 20 home 20 away, done with it ?

Like, I played a tournament recently, based on the 1 man clan idea ( from benga I think).
It was 1 player choose 8 homes poly, the other 8 home away, that was mini-war format, that was nice and really competitive.
I think the same could be done here, and justa take 20 home 20 away, but 1 game each not best of 5.

As a player I could be interested, maybe I could take 20 games ( 2X 5 homes and 2X 5 away ) at once, but even for me that looks like a lot, and I am the player in LHDD with the highest game load. I know many of my clan mate are below 20 total active game all the time.

I think this can be interesting but the best of 5 formula you take is definitely keeping some people out.

I totally agree with Donelladan. I would support only 1 Poly game per player. If not that then 3 per player but 5 is really too much. Can you still change that?

[Donelladan]

Right, the original proposed is 205 total.
x3 per series is 123.
X1 series is 41

Lindax can help guide uckuki w any feedback, but my first impression is 1 game series wouldn't work

I am wondering, why do you say 1 game series wouldn't work ? In which way ?

I have another concern with the series system. 1 serie isn't a simple best of 5, but it's best of 5 with 2 poly(2) 2 poly(3) 1 poly(4).
It doesn't make much sense to me.
Let me take an example, France 2.1, which is ma favorite map at the moment, is awesome in triple, interesting in quad, but sucks big time in 2 players because of the region count.
There is many maps in which game play is quite different between double triple and quad for such reason. Just making a comparison with the clan war system, if the series are kept, I'll also ask for a chance from 2 poly (2) 2 poly(3) and 1 poly(4) to 5 times the exact same settings. so either 5 poly(4), or 5 poly (2) or 5 poly (3) but no mixing.

[benga]

Right, the original proposed is 205 total.
x3 per series is 123.
X1 series is 41

Lindax can help guide uckuki w any feedback, but my first impression is 1 game series wouldn't work

I am wondering, why do you say 1 game series wouldn't work ? In which way ?

I have another concern with the series system. 1 serie isn't a simple best of 5, but it's best of 5 with 2 poly(2) 2 poly(3) 1 poly(4).
It doesn't make much sense to me.
Let me take an example, France 2.1, which is ma favorite map at the moment, is awesome in triple, interesting in quad, but sucks big time in 2 players because of the region count.
There is many maps in which game play is quite different between double triple and quad for such reason. Just making a comparison with the clan war system, if the series are kept, I'll also ask for a chance from 2 poly (2) 2 poly(3) and 1 poly(4) to 5 times the exact same settings. so either 5 poly(4), or 5 poly (2) or 5 poly (3) but no mixing.

Don is right, with 41 games and max 5 per player this could still be very competitive.
The goal is to have more players from a clan to participate, not to drown them in games, that's more or less tournaments part.

[The_Samurai]

Don's got some very good points and suggestions to improve the current format of this challenge. If there are taken into account, I'm confident you'll be able to attract more clans, which will make the whole tourney much more interesting.

[josko.ri]

Don's got some very good points and suggestions to improve the current format of this challenge. If there are taken into account, I'm confident you'll be able to attract more clans, which will make the whole tourney much more interesting.

I totally agree. With these changes even 16 clans are possible to come.

[josko.ri]

unlimited forts in poly games, should we have a lesser restriction? if not for Poly(4)
then for Poly(2)? or, just keep it as it is?

I think you should not restrict unlimited forts at all. Unlimited forts can lead to shitty series in 1v1 games but in Poly games they can lead to quite challenging matches and restricting them leads to abandoning one quite funny and challenging part of CC's game play. I don't really know what may be the reasons FOR removing unlimited forts in normal maps?

[Tazzy_J]

Right, the original proposed is 205 total.
x3 per series is 123.
X1 series is 41

Lindax can help guide uckuki w any feedback, but my first impression is 1 game series wouldn't work

I am wondering, why do you say 1 game series wouldn't work ? In which way ?

I have another concern with the series system. 1 serie isn't a simple best of 5, but it's best of 5 with 2 poly(2) 2 poly(3) 1 poly(4).
It doesn't make much sense to me.
Let me take an example, France 2.1, which is ma favorite map at the moment, is awesome in triple, interesting in quad, but sucks big time in 2 players because of the region count.
There is many maps in which game play is quite different between double triple and quad for such reason. Just making a comparison with the clan war system, if the series are kept, I'll also ask for a chance from 2 poly (2) 2 poly(3) and 1 poly(4) to 5 times the exact same settings. so either 5 poly(4), or 5 poly (2) or 5 poly (3) but no mixing.

Don is right, with 41 games and max 5 per player this could still be very competitive.
The goal is to have more players from a clan to participate, not to drown them in games, that's more or less tournaments part.

I agree that if you drop it to just 41 games then you need to drop it to a maximum of 5 or 6 players. Otherwise there isn't enough games for people to get into the tournie. I think for this iteration this would be the wrong move however as I (and other clans from the sounds of it) have been badgering people trying to get up to 12 active players....

Personally I like the 5-game series idea between two players, but I suggest reduce the number of series down to 12 home & 12 away, i.e. one series for each player home and away. 5 games in the home batch and 5 in away batch should be manageable for all but it gives everyone enough games for the luck to even out...

[Donelladan]

benga wasn't suggesting to reduce the total number of players from 12 to 5, but to allow each players to play up to 5 games.

41 games, best of 5 or best of 1, you can still have 12 players in both case, I don't see any issue.
It is the exact same number of home map, and each number of home map that define number of player.
I keep it to 4 games max per player as initally, that way 12 players is still a good number.

I am not in favor of your idea of reducing it to 12 home map with best of 5 series though, because it means we can take maximum 12 player.
If we take 41 games ( best of 1 or best of 5) we can have 20 players participating to the event with no problem.

I understand that best of 5 reduce the luck factor, but we don't do that for normal clan war.

A normal clan war would be 7 dubs, 7 triples 6 quads for example.
Replace it by 7 poly(2) 7 poly(3) 6 poly(4), you have the same kind of "luck factor" than in a normal war. We don't do best of 5 for each map in a clan war, and I don't think many clans wars are determined by luck ( couples of games are on both side ofc but the overall result of the war isn't ).

[grt]

A normal clan war would be 7 dubs, 7 triples 6 quads for example.
Replace it by 7 poly(2) 7 poly(3) 6 poly(4), you have the same kind of "luck factor" than in a normal war. We don't do best of 5 for each map in a clan war, and I don't think many clans wars are determined by luck ( couples of games are on both side ofc but the overall result of the war isn't ).

Totally agree - poly games are near enough the same as team games so no need for best-of series - just do as a normal clan war as Donelladan suggests.

Could do with knowing whether any of these suggestions are being considered. Also, I see the tournament should start today - are you just waiting for 1 more clan now?

[josko.ri]

A normal clan war would be 7 dubs, 7 triples 6 quads for example.
Replace it by 7 poly(2) 7 poly(3) 6 poly(4), you have the same kind of "luck factor" than in a normal war. We don't do best of 5 for each map in a clan war, and I don't think many clans wars are determined by luck ( couples of games are on both side ofc but the overall result of the war isn't ).

Totally agree - poly games are near enough the same as team games so no need for best-of series - just do as a normal clan war as Donelladan suggests.

Could do with knowing whether any of these suggestions are being considered. Also, I see the tournament should start today - are you just waiting for 1 more clan now?

I also totally agree.