Planet Fitness Bans Woman

[AndyDufresne]

Star Trek tackled this once, in the TNG era: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Out ... episode%29




--Andy

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Once again His Phatness belies his espousal of freedom of the individual. Do what ever you want! As long as it's something I approve of and something I don't find gross!

-TG

[Phatscotty]

I take it you're objecting to the ban PS? What would you like to see done about this? What should be the reaction to this and who should be doing the reacting?

I would like to see people with a penis use the mens lockers
I would like to see people with a vagina use the womens lockers

Call me radical

So people born intersex should get to use both then? Neither? Around 1 in 1000 people are born with ambiguous genitals.

idk, what have they been doing for the last 5,000 years? not to mention, intersex people is not the topic at hand

[Phatscotty]

Once again His Phatness belies his espousal of freedom of the individual. Do what ever you want! As long as it's something I approve of and something I don't find gross!

-TG

once again, you fail to make sense. I never have said nor do I believe people can or should be able to do 'whatever they want' You are making things up and adding extremism and ridiculousness.

come on back when the crack wears off

[mrswdk]

If a transgender women uses a dildo to sodomize a man, is that a homosexual act?

[riskllama]

i'd say it's a pointless act as he/she is wasting a perfectly good penis...

[mrswdk]

Isn't a transgender woman someone who used to be a man?

Either way I mean someone who changed from woman to man.

[riskllama]

whups, pardon me.

[Phatscotty]

Isn't a transgender woman someone who used to be a man?

No. A transgender person is one who 'feels' like they are the opposite sex. It can possibly last for life (theory) or it can last for years, even decades, or it can last for a day (fact) Monday, man #1 can feel like a woman, and declare Monday morning they are now a transgender woman. Tuesday morning, man#1 can say 'meh' I'm a man again.

"person whose gender identity does not correspond to that person's biological sex assigned at birth"

[mrswdk]

Ah, JEEZ. Then my question is:

If a transexual women uses a dildo to sodomi ah forget it

[khazalid]

Star Trek tackled this once, in the TNG era: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Out ... episode%29




--Andy

i watched all 8 seasons over the course of the last 8 months. it's not often that the actor portraying reiker (william something - i forget) acts plausibly, but you really feel his pain here

[crispybits]

Isn't a transgender woman someone who used to be a man?

No. A transgender person is one who 'feels' like they are the opposite sex. It can possibly last for life (theory) or it can last for years, even decades, or it can last for a day (fact) Monday, man #1 can feel like a woman, and declare Monday morning they are now a transgender woman. Tuesday morning, man#1 can say 'meh' I'm a man again.

"person whose gender identity does not correspond to that person's biological sex assigned at birth"

While it's true that someone can wake up one morning and declare that they are the opposite sex, it's not true that this instantly gives them the kind of status necessary to use the other sex's facilities. They need to be evaluated by medical professionals and undergo a gradual adoption of their expressed gender identity, very often including things like hormone treatments and surgery. You're setting up a ridiculous straw man.

If your straw man was tue then every 14 year old boy would know the loophole and be registering with gyms and sports centres up and down the country as females so they can get into the changing rooms and see boobs.

[macbone]

Yep, Star Trek was pushing the envelope once more.

First TV onscreen interracial kiss:



Of course, they had to blunt it by making Kirk and Uhura mind-controlled.

And someone who's transgender can be homoromantic or heteroromantic, asexual or pansexual, you name it.

[Phatscotty]

Isn't a transgender woman someone who used to be a man?

No. A transgender person is one who 'feels' like they are the opposite sex. It can possibly last for life (theory) or it can last for years, even decades, or it can last for a day (fact) Monday, man #1 can feel like a woman, and declare Monday morning they are now a transgender woman. Tuesday morning, man#1 can say 'meh' I'm a man again.

"person whose gender identity does not correspond to that person's biological sex assigned at birth"

While it's true that someone can wake up one morning and declare that they are the opposite sex, it's not true that this instantly gives them the kind of status necessary to use the other sex's facilities. They need to be evaluated by medical professionals and undergo a gradual adoption of their expressed gender identity, very often including things like hormone treatments and surgery. You're setting up a ridiculous straw man.

If your straw man was tue then every 14 year old boy would know the loophole and be registering with gyms and sports centres up and down the country as females so they can get into the changing rooms and see boobs.

Wait.... you need a doctors permission before one can be transgendered? nice try.
A transgender is onlya transgender if they are on/plan on hormone treatment n surgery? strike two
hey, what is the name for that kind of doctor that 'decides' when you are transgendered? (chance)

in my country, a student in school can tell their teacher they aretransgendered, and the teacher cannot even call the parents to be aware/discuss the issue. The 9th and 10th graders I have shared newsreports of inthe past who got access tothe girls locker room and plays on the girls softball team certainly were not on hormone treatment, nor anywhere close to old enough to makethe decision to sew up their vagina or chop off their penis.

I could totally go Woodruff on you right now, just not my style. It is true, the only thing you need to do to be treated as a transgender is say you are a transgender. Is someone at that time really supposed to say 'where's yourdoctors note?

[AndyDufresne]

in my country, a student in school can tell their teacher they aretransgendered, and the teacher cannot even call the parents to be aware/discuss the issue.

--Andy

[mrswdk]

Oh, for the days when a teacher strolling through the town center had the authority to beat one of his pupils if he saw them consorting with members of the opposite sex.

[crispybits]

Really PS? How about we look at the transgender policy of one of the more liberal areas of the country (also happens to be the first hit in google for "USA transgender student policy")

http://schools.nyc.gov/RulesPolicies/Tr ... efault.htm

Most relevant bits:

Privacy

Except as set forth herein, school personnel should not disclose information that may reveal a student’s transgender status. Under the Family Education Rights Privacy Act (FERPA), only those school employees with a legitimate educational need should have access to a student’s records or the information contained within those records. Disclosing confidential student information to other employees, students, parents, or other third parties may violate privacy laws, including but not limited to FERPA. Transgender students have the ability, as do all students, to discuss and express their gender identity and expression openly and decide when, with whom, and how much of their private information to share with others.

Schools should work closely with the student and family in devising an appropriate plan regarding the confidentiality of the student’s transgender status that works for both the student and the school. Privacy considerations may also vary with the age of the student.

In some cases, transgender students may feel more supported and safe if other students are aware that they are transgender. In these cases, school staff should work closely with the student, families and other staff members on a plan to inform and educate the student’s peers. It may also be appropriate to engage external resources to assist with educational efforts. A list of support organizations for transgender students is listed at the end of this document.

So no prohibition from talking to the parents there, indeed there's a responsibility to work with the student AND FAMILY.

Restroom and Locker Room Accessibility

The DOE aims to support transgender students while also ensuring the safety and comfort of all students. The use of restrooms and locker rooms by transgender students requires schools to consider numerous factors, including, but not limited to: the transgender student’s preference; protecting student privacy; maximizing social integration of the transgender student; minimizing stigmatization of the student; ensuring equal opportunity to participate; the student’s age; and protecting the safety of the students involved.

A transgender student who expresses a need or desire for increased privacy should be provided with reasonable alternative arrangements. Reasonable alternative arrangements may include the use of a private area, or a separate changing schedule, or use of a single stall restroom. Any alternative arrangement should be provided in a way that protects the student’s ability to keep his or her transgender status confidential.

A transgender student should not be required to use a locker room or restroom that conflicts with the student’s gender identity.

Hmm, no mention of immediately being able to use the opposite restroom or changing room there. In fact the school are under a duty to consider all factors, including protecting the privacy and safety of all the students.

Also, I said "very often undergoing hormone treatment and surgery - so your "they don't all need to have surgery/hormones" is yet another straw man.

I have not seen you post a report where a student has identified as transgender and on that very day started using the opposite restrooms or changing rooms, and remember this is what we're dealing with, your claim that one day someone can declare one gender and then the next day change their mind and the implication that this somehow entitles them to any changes. It's much more complicated than that - but that wouldn't fit your black and white view of everything would it?

[Phatscotty]

So no prohibition from talking to the parents there, indeed there's a responsibility to work with the student AND FAMILY.

really? pulled from your own statement.....

Disclosing confidential student information to other employees, students, parents, or other third parties may violate privacy law

Restroom and Locker Room Accessibility

The DOE aims to support transgender students while also ensuring the safety and comfort of all students. The use of restrooms and locker rooms by transgender students requires schools to consider numerous factors, including, but not limited to: the transgender student’s preference; protecting student privacy; maximizing social integration of the transgender student; minimizing stigmatization of the student; ensuring equal opportunity to participate; the student’s age; and protecting the safety of the students involved.

A transgender student who expresses a need or desire for increased privacy should be provided with reasonable alternative arrangements. Reasonable alternative arrangements may include the use of a private area, or a separate changing schedule, or use of a single stall restroom. Any alternative arrangement should be provided in a way that protects the student’s ability to keep his or her transgender status confidential.

A transgender student should not be required to use a locker room or restroom that conflicts with the student’s gender identity.

k..... pretty sure I was calling out the 'doctors note' scenario you alluded to

[crispybits]

Yeah the key word there is "other" PS, other parents like parents of other children. otherwise they couldn't exactly work with the family.

My doctors note thing was because you implied people could just switch back and forth daily. You still haven't actually provided any evidence of that little doozy...

[Phatscotty]

Oh, for the days when a teacher strolling through the town center had the authority to beat one of his pupils if he saw them consorting with members of the opposite sex.

ah yes....the days before school shootings and massacres, the days before 40% illiteracy rates and 60% graduation rates

ahhhhhh the days when discipline existed

[warmonger1981]

I have a first hand experience in a school where students ranging from 5-8th grade can speak in a group after school discussing their sexuality and experiences in a private setting without parents.

What happens when a 6 year old boy who identifies himself as a girl needs help in a public restroom. If the child is with his father does father go in the women's room to help. Or what if mom is with daughter who identifies herself as a boy. Does mom go in men's room to help or does mom have male stranger in restroom help child?

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I have a first hand experience in a school where students ranging from 5-8th grade can speak in a group after school discussing their sexuality and experiences in a private setting without parents.

What happens when a 6 year old boy who identifies himself as a girl needs help in a public restroom. If the child is with his father does father go in the women's room to help. Or what if mom is with daughter who identifies herself as a boy. Does mom go in men's room to help or does mom have male stranger in restroom help child?

How is it any different then normally? I've walked into a restroom plenty of times to see a dad with his daughter in there.

Once again His Phatness belies his espousal of freedom of the individual. Do what ever you want! As long as it's something I approve of and something I don't find gross!

-TG

once again, you fail to make sense. I never have said nor do I believe people can or should be able to do 'whatever they want' You are making things up and adding extremism and ridiculousness.

come on back when the crack wears off

Your hypocrisy is showing.

-TG

[/]

I take it you're objecting to the ban PS? What would you like to see done about this? What should be the reaction to this and who should be doing the reacting?

I would like to see people with a penis use the mens lockers
I would like to see people with a vagina use the womens lockers

Call me radical

So people born intersex should get to use both then? Neither? Around 1 in 1000 people are born with ambiguous genitals.

idk, what have they been doing for the last 5,000 years? not to mention, intersex people is not the topic at hand

It varies, like everything throughout history. And it is relevant to the topic when you break it down into variables.
A= vagina
B= penis
While you seem to have put forward the opposition that A or B exist and should be thus categorized and segregated, I merely pointed out that millions of people were born with some configuration of AB or Neither, so the premise is flawed.

The questions remain:
1. Do you believe a business has a right to set what is or is not permissible on their own property within the confines of the law?
2. Do you believe a business has the right to enforce the rules spelled out in a contract its members willingly signed?

[mrswdk]

I've walked into a restroom plenty of times to see a dad with his daughter in there.

At least, that's what he told you was going on.

[Dukasaur]

I've walked into a restroom plenty of times to see a dad with his daughter in there.

At least, that's what he told you was going on.

You're such a pig...