Football (real)

[nietzsche]

Carlos Vela out of The Guardian's 100 best footballers list

http://www.theguardian.com/football/ng- ... nteractive

Amzing stupidity of the English. No wonder why they have a tiny country these days, and eat fried fish with french fries. And drink tea with milk.

[betiko]

Carlos Vela out of The Guardian's 100 best footballers list

http://www.theguardian.com/football/ng- ... nteractive

Amzing stupidity of the English. No wonder why they have a tiny country these days, and eat fried fish with french fries. And drink tea with milk.

He Could ve been included i agree, just like many others (take Lacazette for example who would deserve 10 times more than vela to be included there). When i see this list, i can t believe how many players there are overrated and occupying positions in the ranking just because of their past glory. The ranking is called best players of 2014 ffs... How many of these have been huge disappointments this year?

[nietzsche]

I agree with the last part. David Luiz for instance had a very poor year.

[betiko]

I agree with the last part. David Luiz for instance had a very poor year.

Even more that david luiz, thiago silva has been particularly terrible throughout 2014. He was probably the best of 2012 or 2013 in his position but since 2014 he utterly sucks. He s been the main artist of PSG s decline this year, he shouldn t even be on the pitch, mostly when psg has marquinhos who is much younger. Oh and marquinhos plays for brazil while dunga removed thiago silva from the team and stripped him from his captain role of the seleçao. Same thing for Piqué. Xavi, iniesta and totti that high seriously? They are finished.
That s just to mention a few.

[betiko]

I agree with the last part. David Luiz for instance had a very poor year.

Do you even know Alexandre Lacazette? If you don t, i m pretty sure a few clubs will try to buy him from Lyon this summer for outrageous amounts. His stats are like twice as impressive as what benzema did when he played for Lyon, and he s just 22yo.

[tzor]

Amzing stupidity of the English. No wonder why they have a tiny country these days, and eat fried fish with french fries. And drink tea with milk.

At least they make tea by boiling water and then adding milk, as opposed to those who simply boil the tea in the milk.

[betiko]

Amzing stupidity of the English. No wonder why they have a tiny country these days, and eat fried fish with french fries. And drink tea with milk.

At least they make tea by boiling water and then adding milk, as opposed to those who simply boil the tea in the milk.

You ve just killed the thread by derailing it, i hope yer happy.


So wondering if we will see some big transfers for christmas.. I m sure some of the big clubs will move.

I m pissed cause marseille has 2 major players (ayew and gignac) that finish contract in june and haven t renovated yet...so if the club wants some money they need to sell them now! We can t affford the new salaries they are asking..

[nietzsche]

Amzing stupidity of the English. No wonder why they have a tiny country these days, and eat fried fish with french fries. And drink tea with milk.

At least they make tea by boiling water and then adding milk, as opposed to those who simply boil the tea in the milk.

You ve just killed the thread by derailing it, i hope yer happy.


So wondering if we will see some big transfers for christmas.. I m sure some of the big clubs will move.

I m pissed cause marseille has 2 major players (ayew and gignac) that finish contract in june and haven t renovated yet...so if the club wants some money they need to sell them now! We can t affford the new salaries they are asking..

Or they could sign them just to sell them in June.

[betiko]

Amzing stupidity of the English. No wonder why they have a tiny country these days, and eat fried fish with french fries. And drink tea with milk.

At least they make tea by boiling water and then adding milk, as opposed to those who simply boil the tea in the milk.

You ve just killed the thread by derailing it, i hope yer happy.


So wondering if we will see some big transfers for christmas.. I m sure some of the big clubs will move.

I m pissed cause marseille has 2 major players (ayew and gignac) that finish contract in june and haven t renovated yet...so if the club wants some money they need to sell them now! We can t affford the new salaries they are asking..

Or they could sign them just to sell them in June.

the agents want to make the most money possible, and the best in terms of money for the player and the agent is to become free agents in june and get a few millions in their pocket for signing a new contract. Ayew and Gignac are really attached to the OM (ayew's dad was abedi pelé who won the champions league in '93 with marseille, the ayew brothers then have been born and raised in this club, and gignac is just from marseille and always came to the stadium as a kid, it's his club). So anyway, if they are cool, they should do a gesture for their club, sign a new contract and we let them go in june wherever they want. Gignac wants to sign only if he has guarantees that Bielsa stays.

So Torres back to the Atletico! You know what... i think tha it's the only place where he can bounce back. His home club, where it all started for him. I'll be looking into it definitely!

PS: l'equipe's top 100 of 2014. Which one do you like best?
http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualit ... nal/524508

[nietzsche]

Amzing stupidity of the English. No wonder why they have a tiny country these days, and eat fried fish with french fries. And drink tea with milk.

At least they make tea by boiling water and then adding milk, as opposed to those who simply boil the tea in the milk.

You ve just killed the thread by derailing it, i hope yer happy.


So wondering if we will see some big transfers for christmas.. I m sure some of the big clubs will move.

I m pissed cause marseille has 2 major players (ayew and gignac) that finish contract in june and haven t renovated yet...so if the club wants some money they need to sell them now! We can t affford the new salaries they are asking..

Or they could sign them just to sell them in June.

the agents want to make the most money possible, and the best in terms of money for the player and the agent is to become free agents in june and get a few millions in their pocket for signing a new contract. Ayew and Gignac are really attached to the OM (ayew's dad was abedi pelé who won the champions league in '93 with marseille, the ayew brothers then have been born and raised in this club, and gignac is just from marseille and always came to the stadium as a kid, it's his club). So anyway, if they are cool, they should do a gesture for their club, sign a new contract and we let them go in june wherever they want. Gignac wants to sign only if he has guarantees that Bielsa stays.

So Torres back to the Atletico! You know what... i think tha it's the only place where he can bounce back. His home club, where it all started for him. I'll be looking into it definitely!

PS: l'equipe's top 100 of 2014. Which one do you like best?
http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualit ... nal/524508

As you say, yeah, agents will probably want to convince the players to push to become free agents or get a nice fat contract. But if Olimpic has a real chance this year they should try to sign them well, and then sell them with the championship earned. It's a good bet.

I'm not so sure about Torres, how many years now has he been sucking? Simeone could convince him, but he will have to work really hard, Simeone is like the boss of a chinese factory.

About the list: definetely better. Changes I would made, which are subjective:

Neymar a little lower, below Muller, Ibra, Suarez, Costa, Kroos
Neur is an amazing keeper but somehow I don't think a keeper should be No. 1. In that case, in comparison to Neur, Cortoius seems low.
Schwensteirger seems too high, I particularly love his game, but 2014 wasn't his best year due to injuries.
Robben ahead of Messi, he had a better year
Benzema is a bit high in the list, he's a great player but he didn't play so well at the begining of the year
Modric is too low, Godin before Modric? No
Van Persie is WAY too high
Varane is an excelent player, but he didn't play much, so putting him ahead of Pirlo, Vidal, Marcelo seems wrong.
Dani Alves, Kedhira? Really, Alves is done, Kedhira doesn't even play.
Did Ozil play in 2014?

And, Vela is not in the list. This is ridiculous. This list was made in France, didn't they see the goal the match he gave in San Sebastian vs Lyon? Griezman is in the list, and in the second half of the year he didn't do anything for Atleti. Ask people from Spain who they thing is better, Vela or Griezman. Even Atleti's fans think they should've hired Vela instead of Griezman. And, in La Liga's awards, the 3 top forwards nominated for the 2013-2014 season were Cristiano, Costa and Vela.

I don't understand the criteria at times, are those lists of players that did good in 2004 or lists of the best players at the end of 2014. I can see how some players are thought to be great but they just didn't have a good year but are expected to go back to normal in 2015, but I thought the list was about those who did good in 2014.

[betiko]

Just one thing: don t call marseille the "olympique", this is a very stupid thing marca does. When Lyon was top notch in champions league they would call them the "olympique" then when marseille does better they call us the "olympique". The fact is that in france you either call a club by the name of its city or by its initials. "Olympique" is no one, as there are a few in france. Like in spain you say "la real" and "el real", you actually know who i m talking about... Or "el atleti" and "athleti".
But the way marca calls marseille and lyon is the exact same... So readers are probably pretty confused. fYi, in france we most often say PSG, OM, OL, ASSE (saint etienne), ASM (monaco) or just the city... We don t really have 2 clubs in a same city so the city name is easy shit.

Regarding your remarks on the rankings you are probably right. But vela wasn t in the world cup just because he wanted to be difficult, and he isn t playing a european cup this season either, so very little visibility.
Regarding Neuer: his position is always under rated. He changed pretty much the role of a keeper during the WC, and germany wouldn t ve been the same without him. He was the most important player from that world champion team imo.
Anyway, the ballon d or is given by france football normally, which is the same publication as l equipe. They just did a very silly thing to merge the ballon d or and the fifa world player award. The big majority of people who follow football agree that the ballon d or is more prestigious than the made up fifa world player award.
For example, if cannavaro got the 2006 ballon d or, don t you think it s normal to give the 2014 ballon d or to neuer? I m fine if they give it to cristiano this year, he did win the champion s league and did an amazing season. Last year was just plain BS and was totally undeserved.
I think that a ballon d or should always be in the team that won the year s world cup/eurocup or champions league. Someone from any other team is a fraud.

[nietzsche]

Now that you mention it I've heard Lyon being called the Olympique of Lyon. I always hear Olympique of Marsella in Mexico, to be honest I didn't type Marsella because I couldn't remember the French spelling.

Cannavaro was indisputably the rightfull winner in 2006. Neuer did an amazing job but for some reason I don't see it as the winner. But definetely in the top 5 of the year with Cristiano, Muller, Robben and Lahm or Kroos.

[betiko]

Now that you mention it I've heard Lyon being called the Olympique of Lyon. I always hear Olympique of Marsella in Mexico, to be honest I didn't type Marsella because I couldn't remember the French spelling.

Cannavaro was indisputably the rightfull winner in 2006. Neuer did an amazing job but for some reason I don't see it as the winner. But definetely in the top 5 of the year with Cristiano, Muller, Robben and Lahm or Kroos.

Olympique de Marsella is fine, Olympique de Lyon tambien (although technically their real name is Olympique Lyonés if you translate it). It s just that it s too long and OL or OM are very very widely used, much more than MU for example (i d say these guys are more often called Man U or Man United).

Ahhh come on. Just take Buffon in 2006. Much more important than Cannavaro. And after the WC that year cannavaro signed for the real madrid and was total crap from september to december. Or just take a guy like del piero who never won the ballon d or... Didn t he deserve it more than cannavaro? (I actually don t remember too well del piero s performance during the 2006 wc)

[nietzsche]

I don't remember either buffon or del piero's performance during the 2006 WC, what i do remember is how impressive Cannavaro was.

Btw, I dont think Cristiano's last year award was undeserved.

[betiko]

I don't remember either buffon or del piero's performance during the 2006 WC, what i do remember is how impressive Cannavaro was.

Btw, I dont think Cristiano's last year award was undeserved.

Buffon did an exceptional WC That year. If it wasn t for him france would ve won that final easy peasy. France just totally dominated that game and buffon was god. Nothing would go through. Ask Zidane and Henry... If I remember well he was pretty amazing kicking out germany out of its own wc in semis.

Cristiano s last year was so undeserved. No major title, not the best stats, and when he scored in playoffs sweden vs portugal they reopened the votes. Seriously???
He can get it this year i don t mind, but last year was just freakin scandalous.

And stop being such a whiny real madrid bitch... Ohhh so deserved for cannavaro in 2006, so deserved for cristiano in 2013.... I see what you re doing!

[nietzsche]

You must really hate Italy.

To be honest I don't remember much about 2006, I just remember talking to a friend who also thought Cannavaro deserved it. And I was never a fan of the catenaccio, but I do have respect for italians defenders and midfielders.

But I'm not thinking of RM when I say that Cristiano deserved it in 2013. He truly did, he was doing things right but had a lot of hate around him. Even Blatter showed his hate. If you could separate the player from the selfcentered image he projects, people would appreciate him more. And I do love the fact that he's so selfcentered: when RM is winning 3-0 he wants more and pushes his teammates to keep attacking.

All in all, to point to one player as the king specially in football is not that important. In football the tram play really matters and we forget other players that work without the spotlight on them.

[betiko]

You must really hate Italy.

To be honest I don't remember much about 2006, I just remember talking to a friend who also thought Cannavaro deserved it. And I was never a fan of the catenaccio, but I do have respect for italians defenders and midfielders.

But I'm not thinking of RM when I say that Cristiano deserved it in 2013. He truly did, he was doing things right but had a lot of hate around him. Even Blatter showed his hate. If you could separate the player from the selfcentered image he projects, people would appreciate him more. And I do love the fact that he's so selfcentered: when RM is winning 3-0 he wants more and pushes his teammates to keep attacking.

All in all, to point to one player as the king specially in football is not that important. In football the tram play really matters and we forget other players that work without the spotlight on them.

Bah the italy hating was pretty strong after the WC final in france, well especially the materazzi hating. But to be honnest they are kind of a brother nation, like 15% of french immigration is italian (and over 45% of french immigration is spanish+portuguese+italian). It s always a derby to face these nations as there is always a lot of supporters of these countries in france... And we are the 4 major latin countries in europe.
But you are forgetting what the late 90s mid 2000 rivalry between france and italy was like:
Wc 98: dino baggio misses the penalty shoot out and france goes to wc semi finals, and becomes world champion that year
Euro 2000: france vs italy in the final. Italy wins 1-0 and the bench starts celebrating the title. Henry asks them to shut up and sit down cause there is still a couple of minutes of extra time. My friends start leaving as they think the game is over.... Pires on the left towards Wiltord on the 93'..... And goaaaaaal!! Then there was the golden goal rule. So 1-1 and the OT starts. After a few minutes, Trezeguet in the box, shoots in Toldo's face and..... Golden goal!!! Game over, go home Italy!! That was my best football memory, my most cherished game. Here in europe, winning a eurocup is like winning the world cup. The group stages in a eurocup are much harder than in the wc.
So as you can imagine, the wc 2006 final had lots of revenge in the air. We were winning 1-0 zidane scoring a panenka on buffon after 15 minutes that hit the bar.. Almost didn t enter! Then italy started dominating a bit the second part of the first half, until materazzi scored a header just before half time.. On the second half, france started dominating again, all ocasions were ours, but buffon was just the very best keeper in the world. The guy just had awesome positionning and incredible reflexes all the time it was desperating... So no goals so overtime again.
At some point, zidane makes an over powerful shot from outside the box that goes straight under the bar... But again buffon saves it i don t even know how. A minute or 2 later, zidane head butts materazzi s chest after this guy insulted his sister. The ref didn t see it, but in the stadium a video shows the replay so the ref gives him a red card. From one minute to the next, zidane could ve been a super hero, scoring both goals of the wc final (the second one being as amazing as the one from the rm-bayer leverkussen cl final) to become a villain that head butts the rivals and gets sent off.
Penalty shootouts... Italy gets to start. They score every single time. Our players have lost a lot of confidence since the zidane incident. 4th shot... Italy has scored all 4 of them! France manages to score all 4 too but is making the race from behind... 5th and italy scores. So there goes Trezeguet, for the 5th and decisive shot... It touches the bar after buffon slightly touches it, and it bounces.... Right on the line!!! No goal, italy is world champion! Most cruel game ever for me.

[_sabotage_]

Zidane was the man.

Only reason France made it to the finals, only reason they won against Brazil, only reason they are the only returning champs not to score a goal (due to benching Zidane).

The headbutt was impressive, much more than the gameplay in the final. Best team player I've seen.

[betiko]

Zidane was the man.

Only reason France made it to the finals, only reason they won against Brazil, only reason they are the only returning champs not to score a goal (due to benching Zidane).

The headbutt was impressive, much more than the gameplay in the final. Best team player I've seen.

If you count the 2002 wc as a benching of zidane you better get your facts straight.. He didn t play the 2 first games because he was injured, he came back vs denmark in the last group stage match But was still half injured.. No coach would be dumb enough to bench him!
But for some reason that team in 2002 sucked completely, they were probably too cocky thinking that the group stage would be a walk in the park... They had won everything in the last 4 competitions.... 98 world cup, 99 confederation cup, 2000 eurocup, 2001 confederation cup...

And no, you can t make a team with just 1 player. We had an awsome team in every single position all playing for the greatest teams in europe.
Barthez
Thuram, Blanc, Desailly, lizarazu
Petit, Deschamps, Karembeu
Zidane, Djorkaeff
Henry

But the 2000 team was better than the 98.

[_sabotage_]

We were hearing that it was in fighting between Henry and Zidane.

I wouldn't underestimate Zidane's value, but I suspect it will be more and more appreciated as a World Cup win becomes a thing of history for France.

He was the strongest captain of his era, and that's saying a lot.

[betiko]

We were hearing that it was in fighting between Henry and Zidane.

I wouldn't underestimate Zidane's value, but I suspect it will be more and more appreciated as a World Cup win becomes a thing of history for France.

He was the strongest captain of his era, and that's saying a lot.

If there had been a fight between henry and zidane, henry could ve just taken a plane back to london. Zidane was by far the star of the team, and Henry never disputed that. Zidane got injured just before the opening of that wc. Honestly, we thought in france that the other guys would just take care of the group stage and that we would have zidane back at 100% for the knock out stages.
Honestly, i think even with zidane that team was too over confident... They were the number 1 team in the fifa ranking and were just beating everyone 4 or 5-0. We played super hungry teams that tried to beat the favorite, while we were overconfident. Anyway, at the end of the day the 2002 wc was completely staged, the way korea knocked out spain and italy was really scandalous reffering.

By the way, zidane never really was the captain, he s never been the kind of guy who will start raising his voice on the pitch or the locker room. The captains were blanc then deschamps at that time (blanc was france s coach for the 2012 eurocup and deschamps is the coach since 2012)
In France, there s always been a debate to know who was our best player ever... Zidane or Platini.
Platini was just the best player of the 80s!

[_sabotage_]

Alright, central play maker, not captain.

Anyways, he's my favourite and he singlehandedly destroyed teams for France. England in the European Cup.

Henry is good and during his magic season was unbelievable, but his game focused too much on the front end, as it should, and he never seemed to play well with Zidane, which is strange because Zidane and Ronaldo played well.

[nietzsche]

Zidane was pure class.

I didn't get to see Platini (I'm not as old as betiko), I really didn't get to see Maradona either.

I haven't seen another player like Zidane. Maybe in the end Messi or Cristiano will end up with more titles (most likely no WCs though) and you can say Messi might be more decisive, but Zidane was pure class. Making Football look like ballet somehow.

I'm a fan of the heroics, and Zidane taking France to the final after returning to the national team, being his last tournament, that was a moment that had me about to come so hard I was going to make a hole in the roof. That header, was a good header, Bufon was simply incredible that night.



And then the other header. Heartbreaker.

[_sabotage_]

I wasn't too saddened by the second header. It's a shame he didn't get his second WC.

To me, he raised the entire team, he made people look good. It was hard to spend too much defence on him, because he'd exploit the weakness for his team.

And if there was a need to get the job done, it would be hard to find a better player. His will to win seemed much more rooted then C Ronaldo's. Much more like a Brazilian player, at least as much about greater glory as individual.

[betiko]

Alright, central play maker, not captain.

Anyways, he's my favourite and he singlehandedly destroyed teams for France. England in the European Cup.

Henry is good and during his magic season was unbelievable, but his game focused too much on the front end, as it should, and he never seemed to play well with Zidane, which is strange because Zidane and Ronaldo played well.

Well Henry is the top scorer for the french national team of all times, and he played like 90% of his games in national team with zidane. He is a striker, so of course his game focused on the front end... But obviously the soul of the team was Zidane, just like Platini was the playmaker and the soul of the team in the 80s (although Platini was able to score much more than Zidane, specially on free kicks where he was a beast).
Now Platini is the president of the UEFA and everybody hates him... i personally think that he s doing a good job.