I can also illustrate that when people use government to influence the behavior of others that it leads directly to needless deaths like Mr Garner's.
Start with the assumption that Mr Garner was selling cigs on the street corner. I don't know if he actually was, but that seems to be what is reported as to the reason the cops wanted to arrest Garner in the first place. So from this point forward lets assume that it is absolutely true that Garner was selling cigs on the street corner illegally.
So, Garner is selling cigs illegally on the street corner by circumventing NY's tax laws regarding cigs. Thus, Garner is engaged in criminal activity. The police had every legal right to arrest him and every legal right to use whatever force they deem necessary to accomplish that.
So lets look at what led Garner to such desperate action as to commit a criminal offense so blatantly on the street.
Way back when some white knight decided it would be a good idea that everyone stop smoking. The problem is, that this white knight couldn't convince everyone to quit smoking and had absolutely no power what so ever to compel anyone to do anything. So white knight comes up with the bright idea that if he could convince government to get involved he could be more successful in getting people to do what he thinks they should do.
So white knight lobbies with politicians who inform white knight "So sorry kid, even though we'd like to, we can't make a law outlawing cigs because <insert many myriad of reasons here>". White knight says "Oh, you might not be able to outlaw cigs, but you do have the power of the tax. And you can use the power of the tax to influence people's behavior."
The idea behind cigarette taxes is to make them so expensive that people will be willing quit. Now this is a kind of tax that a politician can get behind. The politician sees in his mind the revenue that can be generated and out of his filthy mouth he can say "This tax isn't to get your money from you but is to save your life!" So now the politician can see benevolence in this tax and the white knight can clap his hands in glee that he convinced the government to try and make people do what the white knight wants people to do.
So the cig tax is enacted and the white knight is dismayed that people still haven't quit smoking, so he lobbies the politician and says "people are still smoking, the tax needs to be higher". Which the politician happily agrees because that just means more revenue.
And so it goes in certain areas, like NY, where the cigarette taxes are so high that it costs some $14-$15 to buy just one pack. And what white knight and politician never considered (though they should have) when they concocted their scheme to use taxes to influence individual's behavior, is that these taxes did not lower the demand a single bit. Not one iota. But it did drive the market underground and a thriving black market emerges.
People smuggle cigs in from out of state, circumventing the NY cig tax and sell cigs to people at a lower cost than what could be obtained legally. Black markets have no legal basis, thus when there are disputes those disputes cannot be resolved in a court, violence rises. Because that is usually the only recourse when disputes arise in black markets.
Now black markets arise from rational human behavior. There is a store that sells a pack of smokes at $15 or this guy on the street selling a pack for $10, it's rational for someone to say "I'll buy the $10 pack". It doesn't matter if you label that transaction criminal, it's still not only understandable why people go the black market route, it rational.
So, in all tax issues, not only are there the tax collecting process involved, there is always enforcement. Tax laws have to be enforced because if taxes were not enforced then no one would pay them voluntarily (and that's also rational BTW, to not pay taxes if you are not forced to).
It is this enforcement process and the consequences of that the do gooders, white knights and politicians always seem to ignore or forget when they come up with their schemes to use taxing power to influence people's behavior. There is always going to be people who will not change their behavior and will seek alternate routes to circumvent such attempts. Which puts the cops into the position that they have to use force to uphold said tax enforcement.
A Mets will advocate a carbon tax on people and ignore the fact that in doing so he only creates the environment to gives rise to a black market. Mets will want those carbon taxes enforced and there will invariably people who will do whatever they can to get around those taxes. Which leads to the cops having to confront people and use violence which leads to deaths which leads to cries of racism, police brutality and all the other noise.
Garner's sad death started when some numbnut with very poor critical thinking decided it was a good idea to use taxes as a way to get people to stop smoking. Not to mention, all those tax revenues that the politician thought he was going to get had to be diverted into law enforcement to combat the black market that arose because of those taxes.
So when Mets says sarcastically-
Mets wrote:Indeed. We should only be standing up for the rights of clean, wholesome black men. Petty criminals deserve to be choked to death by the police.
on one hand and with the other hand-
Mets wrote:You just have to support the notion that selling untaxed cigarettes does not warrant a death sentence administered by a police officer on the street.
I have to ask, what issue is he addressing exactly? The police used force as they are allowed to and it resulted in Garner's death. I don't think anyone believes the cops intended to kill Garner. Certainly, negligent of the cops, but that's not quite the same as "death sentence" and I've seen Mets advocating that it is indeed right and correct to use taxes to influence people's behavior.
It is the latter that actually lead to Garner's death, because people think it's a good idea to use taxing power to influence people's behavior.
Obamacare makes the same argument, of which I've read Mets advocate. That those who do not have insurance have to pay a tax (yes, it's a tax just like it was argued before the SCOTUS) and that this tax will keep on increasing until it forces people to get insurance. Whether the individual thinks they need that insurance or not.
I've seen Mets argue that using carbon taxes to get people to use less energy is a good idea.
And I say that not only is it immoral to use taxes in such a way (it's a form of coercion any way you look at it and coercion is never a good idea) but it leads to consequences in which actual people are not only killed but also unjustly treated.
So the next time a politician or a white knight tries to tell you that they want to use taxes to get people to do this or that or to get people to stop doing this or that, then you tell them to STFU and think about the consequences of what happens when you effectively hold a gun to a person's head and say "Or Else". Because that is what we do when we enact and enforce taxes of any kind. Pay the tax or else. And getting choked to death on the side of the street certainly qualifies as "Or Else".
Taxes have only a single purpose, to generate revenue. If people try to use taxes for any other reason, such as getting people to stop smoking, or wasting energy, or wasting water, or any other thing some people want other to people to do or not do, then you are going down a road of which only gets darker and darker with real world consequences that in some cases leads to needless deaths.
And if anyone thinks the police are brutal, try the IRS! Those are the most brutal fuckers one could ever have the misfortune of ever having to deal with on an adversarial role. Those bastards will freeze your bank accounts, repo your car, your house, the clothes on your back, toss you in the street or in jail and if you resist you'll be shot dead by, er, well, the cops or an IRS enforcement agent.
It's a thugocracy for sure, and the cops are the low rung on the thug ladder. And it's all enabled by the white knights who always turn to government to do what the white knight failed to convince people to do non violently. How quickly the white knights find themselves shocked! Shocked I say! to see such things happen to people like Garner when it was the do-gooder's own machinations that lead directly to such deaths. Why, it couldn't have been because of the politicians and do-gooder's actions, it has to be racism at the root. Such is the world is seen by such.
So for the long post. I hope some find it somewhat entertaining and somewhat enlightening.
All I can ask is whenever one says "There ought ta be a law!" at some grievance or other, that they stop for a moment, take a deep breath, relax and go about their day and leave others alone.
