Once Upon A Killer Mafia (14/17) A Writers Block:Endgame

[crasp]

Apologies for missing the vote people. I wasnt lurking, i was punching three colour of shit out a router and a phone. Go back to work on thursday for two days so if i go quiet thats why. hopefully problem has been resolved though. I came back expecting to be mod killed but obviously rishaed isnt as much of a kaint as storr.

[StorrZerg]

So nothing to say?...

[UltrasPlot]

Thoughts:
1. I consider myself now clear.
2. I have a 2-shot vig tonight (unbeknownst to me before)
3. Who do you guys think we should lynch and I should kill?

I'm going to push for dd. Any other ideas?

[crasp]

So nothing to say?...

Sorry sir.

[mtamburini]

Thoughts:
1. I consider myself now clear.
2. I have a 2-shot vig tonight (unbeknownst to me before)
3. Who do you guys think we should lynch and I should kill?

I'm going to push for dd. Any other ideas?

Waste of a shot I will revive him.

[StorrZerg]

Thoughts:
1. I consider myself now clear.
2. I have a 2-shot vig tonight (unbeknownst to me before)
3. Who do you guys think we should lynch and I should kill?

I'm going to push for dd. Any other ideas?

Waste of a shot I will revive him.

again you missed the whole shits earlier....

dd5 claimed to be commuter or some shit. aka he goes away at night and can't be targeted by night actions.

Hence the vig shot shouldn't kill dd5.

[Zivel]

Thoughts:
1. I consider myself now clear.
2. I have a 2-shot vig tonight (unbeknownst to me before)
3. Who do you guys think we should lynch and I should kill?

I'm going to push for dd. Any other ideas?

Waste of a shot I will revive him.

Why? I think we should seriously consider dd5 as a scum suspect. I see his play in day one having many holes in it and there could easy be made an argument for a lynch.

Do you think all the claimed lovers are town?

[mtamburini]

Thoughts:
1. I consider myself now clear.
2. I have a 2-shot vig tonight (unbeknownst to me before)
3. Who do you guys think we should lynch and I should kill?

I'm going to push for dd. Any other ideas?

Waste of a shot I will revive him.

again you missed the whole shits earlier....

dd5 claimed to be commuter or some shit. aka he goes away at night and can't be targeted by night actions.

Hence the vig shot shouldn't kill dd5.

ONE TIME USE Im pretty sure he said, and he probably used it last night.

FPD

yes I do

[crasp]

Keep wondering why anybody would enter into that whole kill Ultra /virus thing. they know by killing Ultra they will only manage to take out virus who has an almost insignificant role by his own admission. And if you wanted to kill Ultra then you target virus and hope that both die as lovers.
This for me means that virus was the target all along but why?
Go way back and virus came up with this theory.

yes i could just let him die, but i said i would take the fall for him. Maybe in some twisted universe like this it unlocks something we dont know or anything, my only ability in this game is to die for him, so im ok with that being "my purpose" in this game. and maybe after all lovers generally die together, we dont know that, maybe thats a way to get out of that.
i dont know what other purpose i have besides dying for him.

and yes i know i am town and not 100% sure if he is, thats how our conversation started in our QT aswell but the mod saw it and confirmed to us that we are same allignement so i trust the mod in that way else it would be twisted.

WOWWWWWW when i think about it 3 pairs of lovers CAN be explained. I am gonna call it: RECRUITER/CULT
it would explain why we are all the same allignement and why the mod confirmed that, that even makes it possible for all 3 lovers pairs are town.
its a genius cruel twist, at the start all lovers are town and a recruiter can change that.
to me this would make sense, its just speculation but it would be so perfectly cruel <3 i would see rishead doing something like that.

fped by ultra:
my response: point 1: our communication is not ideal since we are like day and night apart in timezones, we are like never around at the same time. we did not agree on calling eachother scummy, ultra announced i am gonna call you scummy in the QT and did, at which point i made a joke about that in the forum: the post where i say "i get why people believe why he is scummy etc" as a response to show my surprise, cause even in my opinion the whole me framing him is far fetched.
point 2: you understand correctly i have a choice, he stated that since we agreed i would take the fall, see also comments in this post about that.
point 3: if we agree in the topic on that, and he is ok 2, since i said i would take the fall i rather take the fall i dont like making promises and then not deliver my end. (sidenote: i still dont nescesarily think lovers die together, for points made previously: 6 lovers, my role, mod being vague about it)

Is this what got him killed. And the person in ridiculing it is my old pal steraker.

Did you even stop and think about posting that? It's one of the most sick twists i'd have seen in a game... To even bring it up in the midst of this discussion... I ask you to give us your thoughts on Ultra's play, and the things I pointed out, and you bring a story about how there are lovers waiting to be recruited? Amazing. (If it turns out to be true I will apologize ofcourse, if I survive the brain bleed to follow).

Then right out of the starting blocks we have ultra claiming he is now in the clear with this great role that we cant do without.

Thoughts:
1. I consider myself now clear.
2. I have a 2-shot vig tonight (unbeknownst to me before)
3. Who do you guys think we should lynch and I should kill?

I'm going to push for dd. Any other ideas?

You tell me if this puts him in the clear. If virus is correct on his theory then scum killed virus and ultra was recruited. thoughts people.

FP'd loads.

[StorrZerg]

Thoughts:
1. I consider myself now clear.
2. I have a 2-shot vig tonight (unbeknownst to me before)
3. Who do you guys think we should lynch and I should kill?

I'm going to push for dd. Any other ideas?

Waste of a shot I will revive him.

again you missed the whole shits earlier....

dd5 claimed to be commuter or some shit. aka he goes away at night and can't be targeted by night actions.

Hence the vig shot shouldn't kill dd5.

ONE TIME USE Im pretty sure he said, and he probably used it last night.

FPD

yes I do

pretty sure he doesn't say 1 time use anywhere...

[mtamburini]

well find out when he posts.

[StorrZerg]

@crasp, there is 0 indication that recruiter, or cult is in this game. not to mention, they wouldn't want ultra claiming the role he has. Not to mention, i'm fairly certain they would rather pick up someone else. what if virus lied about his power, then they would have no recruit.

[StorrZerg]

well find out when he posts.

you might as well claim to be his lover since he gave no indication that i can find that he had a limited power. That topic was even brought up, and he didn't respond to it.

[crasp]

@crasp, there is 0 indication that recruiter, or cult is in this game. not to mention, they wouldn't want ultra claiming the role he has. Not to mention, i'm fairly certain they would rather pick up someone else. what if virus lied about his power, then they would have no recruit.

How would it work though. Would ultra be told through the night and be able to discuss with mafia or was he told at night end and acting off his own back. Why else would anybody take out virus. If what ultra says is truw then ultra has been the target not virus. why would anybody do that.Target virus and Ultra dies.

[StorrZerg]

@crasp, there is 0 indication that recruiter, or cult is in this game. not to mention, they wouldn't want ultra claiming the role he has. Not to mention, i'm fairly certain they would rather pick up someone else. what if virus lied about his power, then they would have no recruit.

How would it work though. Would ultra be told through the night and be able to discuss with mafia or was he told at night end and acting off his own back. Why else would anybody take out virus. If what ultra says is truw then ultra has been the target not virus. why would anybody do that.Target virus and Ultra dies.

i have no idea how it would work in this game. you ask the mod a basic question about a role, and you get no answer.

Look at virus, death and what his "power" was. falls in line with what he claimed.

Also cult does not mean mafia. They generally are separate. Mafia be mafia, Cults be 3rd party. Not sure when a new recruited person would be told, regardless its likely ultra wouldn't want to explain any new "killing powers" gained publicly if he had just turned anti town.

[Zivel]

Thoughts:
1. I consider myself now clear.
2. I have a 2-shot vig tonight (unbeknownst to me before)
3. Who do you guys think we should lynch and I should kill?

I'm going to push for dd. Any other ideas?

Am I safe to assume that Virus gave his life to save you? How much do you know as to what happened last night and why you are alive and why Virus is dead?

[Zivel]

@crasp, there is 0 indication that recruiter, or cult is in this game. not to mention, they wouldn't want ultra claiming the role he has. Not to mention, i'm fairly certain they would rather pick up someone else. what if virus lied about his power, then they would have no recruit.

How would it work though. Would ultra be told through the night and be able to discuss with mafia or was he told at night end and acting off his own back. Why else would anybody take out virus. If what ultra says is truw then ultra has been the target not virus. why would anybody do that.Target virus and Ultra dies.

i have no idea how it would work in this game. you ask the mod a basic question about a role, and you get no answer.

Look at virus, death and what his "power" was. falls in line with what he claimed.

Also cult does not mean mafia. They generally are separate. Mafia be mafia, Cults be 3rd party. Not sure when a new recruited person would be told, regardless its likely ultra wouldn't want to explain any new "killing powers" gained publicly if he had just turned anti town.

Agree. Ultra would of kept his mouth shut about his new killing powers if he was anything but town imo.

[anamainiacks]

Hmm, that's interesting... that Ultra was hit instead of virus. I quite agree with Zivel's theory that Ultra was Vig'ed, perhaps to make sure we'd go into D2 with some information on the Lovers, while the scumkill was blocked. The night scene doesn't mention 2 kill attempts, but neither does the flavour of the kill indicate scum... And the Mod has been ambiguous with certain information, so I wouldn't be surprised if the trend continues with the scene. Definitely not a theory I'd rule out.

Or perhaps there are more redirecting roles (Bus Driver/Deflector) than AoG v1.0? That might too confusing for a setup though.

In the light of virus being cleared town though (am I right in assuming that virus is Town, because of the role colour, even though it's not explicitly stated Town in the role name?), Ultra, Zivel and lover are pretty much cleared town to me, while dd is still up in the air. I'll have to take a look at his posts again when I can.

Thoughts:
1. I consider myself now clear.
2. I have a 2-shot vig tonight (unbeknownst to me before)
3. Who do you guys think we should lynch and I should kill?

I'm going to push for dd. Any other ideas?

That's interesting to know. I'm guessing rishaed didn't tell you the rewards if virus saved you, so that you wouldn't advocate a lynch on yourself to get the powers (though you still did ). Just to clarify, you say you "have a 2-shot vig tonight" - does that mean you can vig 2 people only for tonight, N2, or that you have a vig power that can be used twice on any night henceforth?

-----

I did a quick read of some of Storr's posts from yesterday.

Storr had his vote on virus just before Ultra claimed, and his vote stayed on virus for quite a while. He was one of the biggest advocates for a virus lynch for quite some time after that. It would be a great way to take out 2 townies in 1 lynch.

@what, where do you want to go today? lynch a lover? or someone else? if someone else who?
i like the point you bring up about virus/ultra situation. similar to my view, i can't see why we would lynch ultra and let virus die if we have any doubt about them it should indicate we have to lynch virus first.

Ultra is never lynched today. It's 100% you over him.
It absolutely does town no good if you both are town. Since we lose a town on "seeing if it's true " and if it is true, we really lack leads on day 2...
If you are mafia, why would we follow your suggestions on ultra lynch.

and what if lynching ultra, is part of his wincon / gains special abilities when virus dies for him?

ALL lovers have claimed roles at this point. seems highly inconsistent that he "doesn't" couple that with him wanting to die to prove a point, sacking a "townie"
i 100% disagree with lynching ultra over virus. Secondly, what are you going to do knowing ultra would be "confirmed town" if we lynch him and virus protects him?

I just don't see the value of the maybe situation, out weighed by the uncertainty of what ultra is since imo he is hiding something.

At one point he says, "someone wanna talk about something other than lovers right now", which is fine. But just 3 minutes after that, he makes another 2 posts discussing Ultra and virus. So much for something other than lovers...

When after some time, it's clear that nobody is joining the virus wagon, he jumps onto the AoG wagon, despite admitting that the wagon was started without much grounds.

little sketched out cause mtamb started the push on a whim it seemed

Unvote
Vote AoG

I'll admit that his push on virus over Ultra isn't exactly scumtell - I can understand (but don't necessarily agree with) his logic of why a lynch of virus over Ultra would be preferred if we were suspicious of the Ultra/virus lover pair, so this is rather WIFOM. But his jumping onto the AoG wagon without much reasoning does seem odd.

-----

mtam sure is visiting the thread and posting lots, for one who wants to quit the game... Maybe he's a Jester. Either way, it's beyond annoying.

[StorrZerg]

so was my push against virus scummy? do you disagree with the reasons i had with pushing him? or is this just a case because "i pushed someone that is now dead town"

[HotShot53]

Wow, day only started a few hours ago, and already a few pages to read... this game is the most active game I've ever been in I think.

Looks like most of us were wrong yesterday

I would be starting a push on mtam for his skimming/driving the lynch on AoG, except he preemptively claimed... So mtam, can you/will you revive virus tonight? (Or whomever is lynched, if it's another mislynch?) I guess knowing he wasn't going to be around beyond day 2 or so would be an incentive for skimming and not caring too much, that does make more sense than a scum mtam not caring this much.

As for AoG reborn... I agree nark was sounding more on the scummy side before he disappeared, and the only reason a case wasn't made on him yesterday was the whole lovers thing came up, and then he disappeared, so he wouldn't be around to claim/defend himself. I feel bad for AoG being reborn just to potentially be in the fire again. I wouldn't vote to lynch him solely on what nark said though, so I'll give him a little rope to see if he hangs himself again.

I wouldn't be surprised if a vig killed ultra and the mafia kill was blocked/saved somewhere else. As has been said by others, it doesn't make much sense for mafia to have killed ultra knowing they'd only get one, instead of killing virus and taking them both out. And with as many of us thinking ultra and virus were scummy, I wouldn't be surprised if a vig decided to take a shot there to test it out and save us wasting another day trying to lynch them. So ultra, do you have to use the 2 shots tonight? Or can you save one/both of the kills for another time?

I still don't get why dd came out as a third lover, if he was scum, and therefore knew if ultra was town, when it was likely ultra would be lynched as it had been going. The only reason I can think of for a scum dd to come out there was hoping people would think only town would come out there, hoping to clear both himself and whatever scum body they later decided to claim as his lover. That's possible I guess, making the whole coming out as third lover pair sort of non-indicative.

And as far as I know, dd did not say when his commuter would be active/how often he could use it etc, and I don't blame him since putting that info out there would make it easier for scum to pick the right night to kill him (if he is town). (Commuter could be a good fake claim also, hoping that town wouldn't "waste" an action they would expect to get no results from...) So overall i'm a coin flip on DD right now, will have to read back on his posts and see how today goes to see if we should lynch him or look elsewhere today.

I think that covers the topics that have come up so far today...

[UltrasPlot]

1. Cult recruiter eliminates any and all power role, I have a 2-shot vig
2. mtam may or may not be dd's lover... otherwise he's just acting stupid again
3. there was a lot of non-clarity about virus' power
4. I have nothing except info that I have a 2-shot vig tomorrow night and that I am alive. I assume I was not targeted by mafia since dd seems to be clear about the situation... (I am convinced you're mafia... now defend yourself)

[UltrasPlot]

EBWOP: anamaniacs, I must kill 2 people tonight. I cannot delay the vig.

[StorrZerg]

EBWOP: anamaniacs, I must kill 2 people tonight. I cannot delay the vig.

i don't believe you

[StorrZerg]

1. Cult recruiter eliminates any and all power role, I have a 2-shot vig
2. mtam may or may not be dd's lover... otherwise he's just acting stupid again
3. there was a lot of non-clarity about virus' power
4. I have nothing except info that I have a 2-shot vig tomorrow night and that I am alive. I assume I was not targeted by mafia since dd seems to be clear about the situation... (I am convinced you're mafia... now defend yourself)

1. we don't know if thats the case, wrong to assume imo.
3. feel free to clarify
4. why would you assume that... virus is dead. why didn't he save you...

[strike wolf]

EBWOP: anamaniacs, I must kill 2 people tonight. I cannot delay the vig.

i don't believe you

Any chance he would have to rely on him being recruited by cult which would rely on cult being sure he wasn't scum or them being able to recruit scum without consequence. I think the chances that he is town and telling the truth are high.

I think the situation is fairly simple. We choose to lynch someone other than DD today for being scummy (my vote would be on Mtam right now as I will explain later). However we also choose one person to be the second vig shot. DD will be the first vig shot, if he is a commuter, he can support his role tonight, if he is not a commuter than barring a scum buddy protection he should die and we are down at least one scum (If Mtam is correct and DD has used up his only shot this changes things but unless Mtam has information that we do not his claim is baseless). The second vig shot to be determined by town majority should get the chance to claim before we decide to follow through on them. We could also try roleblocking Ultra if that would negate the need to kill 2 people in the future but we would not get the chance to test DD's claim. Thoughts?

Right now, I am going to have to go with my head on the Mtam situation:

Yesterday:

I am using my head here Mtam. I am seeing storr switch tactics and start playing devil's advocate. I am seeing you finally step up in this game and post more than a couple of short posts here and there. I am seeing Hotshot kinda/sorta/maybe get involved. I am seeing AoG play horribly. I am seeing people bring up the Romeo and Juliet manga and I am seeing others show that the manga follows a much different storyline than the one that DD explained. And while I did contemplate the possibility of lynching Storr or AoG today, I ultimately have to agree with Whatsausage that a lover lynch is the only option that really makes sense today.

As far as point 2, I would agree that it is unlikely (and if you look at my last few posts youll note that I changed my initial stance on Ultra/Virus and have been saying they are slightly town in my eyes right now), that said this would be far from the first time I have seen a desperate scum try to pull off the "lynch me" card to try and get town to doubt their lynch choice. So no, I am not willing to dismiss it entirely.

Heres the thing, lets combine logic then. We shall lynch AOG if he flips town then ultra can revive him to prove themselves. Although this says nothing about virus we know that ultra will be telling the truth.

(May have got the names wrong but one of them claimed to be a reviver right?

Today:

this is the post where I thought mtam would be a vig

IF DD is lynched I am using my ability to kill myself this lynch is an absolute travesty.

FPD twice

@hotshot

Who gives a shit about the actual story thats a stretch at the very least that people are going on to get DD lynched. The story for opening scenes and closing scenes will be mroe important than the actual back stories IMO.

if you're not a vig, then what are you?

Town reviver, when I revive someone I commit suicide. IF dd dies I wouldve revived him and I wouldve died

Yesterday, he states that he thought Ultra was claiming reviver and was proven wrong. Today he claims reviver himself. This does not completely add up to me. It seems to me you would have been more skeptical of Ultra and Virus yesterday if you believed that one of them had claimed Reviver. Admittedly this case isn't perfect but that thought has been nagging me all night and I at least want a coherent answer.

As far as the kill, *Puts on aluminum foil hat which is vastly superior to your tin foil hats* I am thinking SK in a two scum faction game (SK and Cult or SK and mafia). Depending on how the SK plays, they have just as much reason as any vig to try to eliminate at least one scum during the night depending on how things are going. However, unlike a vig, the SK is more pressured to eliminate town's numbers quicker. So while a town vig may have taken a shot at DD last night to support the commuter claim, that wasn't really a very favorable option to an SK who needed a kill. Ultra however was the closest thing any scum in this game could get to a sure kill, Zivel, Virus or even some of the random townies might draw a protect from someone but Ultra had basically been declared free to target and at most Virus would have sacrificed himself to take Ultra's place amongst the dead. The SK could even potentially claim it as a vig kill later in the game. Mafia could have also gone with the more or less guaranteed kill but keeping the possible future lynch on the table is generally more important to them than killing one of the scummiest townie just because he's a guaranteed kill and they are less likely to try to pull the vig fake claim unless they are forced to (getting caught visiting the deceased) or it is their given fake claim. So basically the reason is to me, logical kill target for Vig=DD; logical kill target for mafia=random townie not likely to be protected and possible second lover; leading to a Sk trying to take him out. So yeah. *takes off the aluminum foil*