Once Upon A Killer Mafia (14/17) A Writers Block:Endgame

[strike wolf]

Not completely useless, if someone with a verifiable result (Not the cop someone less important to the game) was to investigate they could prove your role which is generally not a scum role. The only question is it worth our time to test it. Screw it. Unvote for now. I want to think this over for just a little bit and I am pretty sure he is leading by a good bit so no reason right now.

[mtamburini]

Not completely useless, if someone with a verifiable result (Not the cop someone less important to the game) was to investigate they could prove your role which is generally not a scum role. The only question is it worth our time to test it. Screw it. Unvote for now. I want to think this over for just a little bit and I am pretty sure he is leading by a good bit so no reason right now.

Start thinking about AOG

[virus90]

sorry had exam today so havent been able to catch up. since its deadline day i will try to catch up during the night. since i to much hapent to catch up now since i have to leave again.

[pancakemix]

Its very doubtful dd5 made up his role pm. why? cause if he did so he would have been more careful about what was in the pm, and the information he told us, why he couldn't talk in the night, who was dead etc.

Now with the continual pressure of dd5. we can expect a claim from his lover yes? Then what?


And the theory that dd5 claimed to relieve pressure off virus/ultra is super tinfoil hat. Since he would have to claim his lover at some point, meaning thats 4 scum on day 1 with claimed roles. and they expect to "win the game" like this? this is the realm of make believe.

I'm going to continue to defend dd5 on all points made on him that are silly and not alignment indicative. (yes silly, i consider 99% of this flavor talk meaningless as to what alignment dd5 is)

Again, you're assuming perfect play here. You can't exclusively judge DD's actions in a vaccum, because part of the objective of this game is finding people fucking up.

If you're going to dismiss the flavortalk, you actually need a response to it outside of there might maybe be doubt about it.

News Flash: Earlier today didn't happen.

Uhh... what?

You DID have your vote on virus. You didn't at that point, but you can't pretend you didn't.

Storr asked me for my opinion? I can't agree with someone else's views?

You didn't just agree though.There was not an ounce of originality to the post. And given that many others responded to Storr's argument by calling it inattentive and short-sighted, you plopping down a carbon copy jus makes it look like you're trying to curry favor.

His reasoning for me being scum was that I didn't listen to him and voted virus over him. My argument against that is that I don't care what he says because I think he's scum. This may not be a perfect argument, but it's not bad. No worse than anything Ultra said.

But see, that isn't an argument. It's the absence of argument. You're refusing to engage him, and that weird. If I asked you that, what would your response be?

Please point them out to me and I will gladly clarify anything you would like

Well the "can't talk in daytime" thing is a glaring one. You tried to explain this with flavor, but your flavor explanation doesn't hold, so...

These are just simply my responses to some of Ultra's points. I didn't want to go back and find everything and quote them and post a short novel that everyone would skim through.

Oh, I just thought the vagueness was funny, especially the first quote and how it said nothing.

I'm not listening to Ultra because I think him and virus are hiding something

Why would [ultra] not read through my posts if he thought I was scum?

Same paragraph. You can't even make this shit up.

@everyone As for the manga nonsense: I don't know I'm not the mod. I told you my name and background as to why I can only talk in my QT at night. If it doesn't match up with the manga story then the mod changed it for game purposes or made a mistake. Does that matter at all? Does every single person's character line up exactly with their character?

If he was going to make the character, then change the backstory (in order to make this role useless!), why even bother having it? That doesn't make sense. All I got was a character description and the name of the manga the character was from. Nothing "plot relevant", so to speak. So it sounds like you faked and really didn't think it through.

Again thanks for your contribution!

bodyguard/reviver very similar so its w/e

My brain is actually bleeding that this guy is not getting lynched right now.

I'd be okay with lynching you, if it helps.

Lynching DD is dumb, I dont agree that he is anything but town at this moment.

Okay, why?

However, it is not a good idea for a townie to want me to out my role. Go back to where I claimed and gave backstory and try and put it together before asking for my claim.

You do realize this is what I voted Ultra over, right? And if you don't want to make a novel-length post because people will skim, why do you expect them to even go back and look for something they don't even know what it looks like?

@commuter claim: I don't know how to feel about it. Difficult to verfiy, and is kind of a LOoK WHAT YOU DID YOU RUINED IT type of role. That said, hard to go against. Not moving my vote.

Start thinking about AOG

Stahp.

[StorrZerg]

strikes comments

Again don't have too much to say on this right now. I'd have to specifically look back on somethings about this point which I don't have time to right now. Other than that, your first three points here seem as about differing play styles as scummy vs townish.

no the overall arching point was it didn't pcm was adding anything new at the time. the jokes, the late views on the game, not current with whats going on.

It has been done. It used to actually be the norm for lover pairings to be one town one scum, however this also usually meant the opposite alignment lover could win with his lover's alignment in certain end game scenarios if they were still alive.

Link to a game that has opposite alignments ? (i know the one i hosted did have one. ) I say this, because iirc most people being shocked that it was a possibility for opposite alignments, and had been more used to same alignments. (or the cupid version)

I don't really like how you say this like you figured it out yourself. Pancake mentioned he was doing this. Maybe you missed that fact when he said it earlier in the game but this just rubs me the wrong way. I don't really see as much fluff here as you do. Seems like Pancake is addressing things as he reads them, maybe he doesn't comment on everything but he goes into some of the details and he made a point in regards to Streaker "pounding the hammer" on the Ultra case which was kind of ignored in game. I don't think that's a complete throwaway line.

Pretty sure i'm not saying i "figured it out myself" or anything along those lines. The point was he had asked questions, that had been asked. and didn't help develop current theories that had been floating around. At the time i really felt pcm was just to disconnected to the game. Often a trait mafia show, since they don't really want to show interaction fo the game.

What im trying to say is we as the town, have discussed certain points all ready, and most of what he is saying is just repeating whats been said. i find that scummy.

Am i judging pcm different sure, that tends to happen. Some people are newer, some people are vets, some people you expect certain things etc.

Feels like overreacting from Storr. He made a joke. Get over it.

As for the running theme in this game, i don't seem to get the jokes.... Hence why crasp is helping me out in that department, and now pcm is starting to use icons to help differentiate whats a joke, and a serious comment.

He is questioning the situation, he questions virus, he questions streaker. These look to me of attempts at figuring out the situation and looking for a direction to proceed. Your case kind of ignored those aspects of PCM's post.

while i agree on these points, as to what he is doing. I still stand at the time, it seemed he wasn't developing the game.

This feels like you are holding PCM to a standard that you haven't established for everyone in the game. Don't know where he stands? At this point I would say it is fairly clear he stands anti-Ultra and there's enough evidence out there to say that he is unsure about some of what Streaker has been doing. Do we know everything about his position? No. I think that's true of a lot of the people in this game. So in conclusion, I think your conclusion is mostly bs.

Again, holding people to different standards isn't shocking or scummy. And to say he had a scum read on streaker at that time, or any indication that he wants to look at streaker for a lynch is reaching. He had a lot of content on ultra, that i felt had all ready been said. I wanted him to contribute something else since he was lacking imo.

So my analysis of your PCM post. I think you saw someone posting in a manner that you thought you could manipulate and trick town into thinking it was scummier than it actually was. I disagree with Pancake. I don't think it had anything to do with you wanting to take out someone who could go toe to toe with you as mafia usually tries to leave that in the night kills though perhaps getting town to go after a good player did present an extra thrill.

so what you just said is a staple of my style of play. Yes i do try and manipulate people / convince people of my views. this isn't shocking, new or surprising.

This statement is scummy as hell (Note I don't have anything against the rest of his post so don't have anything to say on it). I don't really feel your follow up reasoning was much better:

While the statement looks scummy, how about the actions of those trying to act on something like this i said? Yes i'm talking about dd5, and how people are wagoning on with out much reason. This is a far scummier thing to do, since its an action to force a claim. Rather than looking for someone that is scum. So while my curiosity is apparent, its clear i know its for the best to not out for now.

Yeah it's only an issue when Pancake doesn't know where to go.

Yes again, treating people differently in this game. I know its hard when you have a town read on someone, and you only give them a slap on the wrist, and when your scum suspect makes the same comment you throttle them.

So you trust him? You like the way he's posting? Kind of seems like a split hair difference. "Similar" "Same."

The difference between dd5, and pcm isn't split hair, its much more different than you make it imo. PCM made a post, dd5 responded to it. The response was very similar to my conclusion on a previous pcm post. dd5 added new content to the game.

PCM post, had been for the majority, catching up to the game, and rehashing all ready said stuff.
As for if i trust him, its been addressed at this point, i'm leaning more on town for now though. At the time, i wasn't sure, i was just certain the comments are not similar.

That said, I think my biggest problem with your recent posts (particularly in handling the PCM one yes but overall), it seems like you are missing or ignoring a lot of details that normally you would notice. Also some of the people who did similar things as pancake or even worse got a slap on the wrist while you went after him. Perhaps you were tunneling and going into too far into it but your play today does not really seem like the play you've had in other games where I know you were town. Some of the elements are there but a lot of it just seems like it is for show.

Really? seems that its more about me being manipulative (guilty) , me treating people differently (guilty). Idk maybe you should reread the last game you hosted, and check the pcm/storr fight. Fairly certain i ignored a lot of what pcm said that game, and harped on him up and down for it. (reads in particular)

[StorrZerg]

so what do you guys think of dd5's claimed role?

[Army of GOD]

so what do you guys think of dd5's claimed role?

I don't know. Honestly I've never been in a game with a commuter before (I don't think) so I'm not sure how it would affect this game. Is this something anyone would be able to check?

Honestly, the "I was going to be a target tonight for the mafia" comment seems weird. Why does he think they would target him for a NK?

[mtamburini]

so what do you guys think of dd5's claimed role?

I don't know. Honestly I've never been in a game with a commuter before (I don't think) so I'm not sure how it would affect this game. Is this something anyone would be able to check?

Honestly, the "I was going to be a target tonight for the mafia" comment seems weird. Why does he think they would target him for a NK?

@ for one shot on mason lover pair duh.

Commuter is an interesting role cause they just disappear, if someone were to try and shoot him in the night and he isnt there the shot would be wasted. It also works the same way that if a cop where to check them while in commute there would be no result. If a tracker visited them there would be no result. Lots of roles would result in no result, not the easiest to prove but no protective roles should be on DD tonight.

[StorrZerg]

so what do you guys think of dd5's claimed role?

I don't know. Honestly I've never been in a game with a commuter before (I don't think) so I'm not sure how it would affect this game. Is this something anyone would be able to check?

Honestly, the "I was going to be a target tonight for the mafia" comment seems weird. Why does he think they would target him for a NK?

well being a claimed lover with likely both having power roles. it isn't that far fetched imo

[mtamburini]

supposed to say 2 for 1 my bad

[mtamburini]

so what do you guys think of dd5's claimed role?

I don't know. Honestly I've never been in a game with a commuter before (I don't think) so I'm not sure how it would affect this game. Is this something anyone would be able to check?

Honestly, the "I was going to be a target tonight for the mafia" comment seems weird. Why does he think they would target him for a NK?

well being a claimed lover with likely both having power roles. it isn't that far fetched imo

Wheres your head at storr who do you want to lynch where is your vote right now?

[dd515087]

so what do you guys think of dd5's claimed role?

I don't know. Honestly I've never been in a game with a commuter before (I don't think) so I'm not sure how it would affect this game. Is this something anyone would be able to check?

Honestly, the "I was going to be a target tonight for the mafia" comment seems weird. Why does he think they would target him for a NK?

I said if I was. I could be a target because I'm a lover and that's a 2 for 1. I'll respond to pancake's comments on me when I have more time

[StorrZerg]

so what do you guys think of dd5's claimed role?

I don't know. Honestly I've never been in a game with a commuter before (I don't think) so I'm not sure how it would affect this game. Is this something anyone would be able to check?

Honestly, the "I was going to be a target tonight for the mafia" comment seems weird. Why does he think they would target him for a NK?

well being a claimed lover with likely both having power roles. it isn't that far fetched imo

Wheres your head at storr who do you want to lynch where is your vote right now?

its on aog...

[rishaed]

Vote Count:

Streaker (2) - Virus90, Zivel
Ultrasplot (3) - Hotshot53, Streaker, Whatsausage
ArmyofGod (1) - Storrzerg
dd515087 (4) - Pancakemix, aage, Ultrasplot, ArmyofGod

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is on Nov 8th. (Notice you still have tomorrow, but as of now DD gets lynched.) Have I missed a vote?

[StorrZerg]

wtf somethings not right with that vote count..

as it stands 7 not voted (pretty sure tambo is on aog) still 5 + people with no votes, and less than 24 hours to go good lord

[rishaed]

Vote Count:

Streaker (2) - Virus90
Ultrasplot (3) - Hotshot53, Streaker, Whatsausage
ArmyofGod (3) - mtamburini,Zivel,Storrzerg
dd515087 (4) - Pancakemix, aage, Ultrasplot, ArmyofGod

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is on Nov 8th. (Notice you still have tomorrow, but as of now DD gets lynched.) Have I missed a vote?

Fixed part is in bold

[UltrasPlot]

Finally, no one's lynching virus because its downright dumb.

dd, what makes you think mafia will kill you? If they off a lover pair it WILL be Zivel... He's least scummy.

[quote=Rishaed]Streaker (2) - Virus90[/quote]

Virus is not a doublevoter, fix please

Can someone clarify the case on Army of God for me please? I haven't seen that much. Mostly reading the posts that pertain to me, dd, and virus - little more.

[Whatsausage]

Alright so I had switched my vote to virus (p24)
I had three exams today so I am totally beat, I caught up but didn't really digest anything. So I'll try to have more tomorrow, possibly a vote change because if that VC is close at all then virus isn't getting lynched today.

@mtam, I really have no inclination to just up and sheep you when you have spent the majority of the game skimming and not really contributing, before you suddenly decide it is time for aog to die. Even since then it appears you cannot be bothered to remember what half the posts were about and who is who. WTH?
Also, you'll use your power to kill yourself tonight if dd is the lynch? Are you "Juliet"?

Fp'd by ultra
Well I am, but its okay because I am dumb

[mtamburini]

Finally, no one's lynching virus because its downright dumb.

dd, what makes you think mafia will kill you? If they off a lover pair it WILL be Zivel... He's least scummy.

[quote=Rishaed]Streaker (2) - Virus90

Virus is not a doublevoter, fix please

Can someone clarify the case on Army of God for me please? I haven't seen that much. Mostly reading the posts that pertain to me, dd, and virus - little more.[/quote]

Just look through his filter the last 2 days, as it gets close to EOD you can see hes not trying to figure out whats going on and just throwing in one liner smart ass remarks that dont contribute anything of use or helpfulness towards the game itself.

FPD by what

[mtamburini]

Alright so I had switched my vote to virus (p24)
I had three exams today so I am totally beat, I caught up but didn't really digest anything. So I'll try to have more tomorrow, possibly a vote change because if that VC is close at all then virus isn't getting lynched today.

@mtam, I really have no inclination to just up and sheep you when you have spent the majority of the game skimming and not really contributing, before you suddenly decide it is time for aog to die. Even since then it appears you cannot be bothered to remember what half the posts were about and who is who. WTH?
Also, you'll use your power to kill yourself tonight if dd is the lynch? Are you "Juliet"?

Fp'd by ultra
Well I am, but its okay because I am dumb

Lets hear your best case for Virus then. Since your paying so much more attention than I am why is virus the best lynch?

[strike wolf]

strikes comments

Again don't have too much to say on this right now. I'd have to specifically look back on somethings about this point which I don't have time to right now. Other than that, your first three points here seem as about differing play styles as scummy vs townish.

no the overall arching point was it didn't pcm was adding anything new at the time. the jokes, the late views on the game, not current with whats going on.

I'll yield on this point simply because I can't prove that you did know what he was doing even though I really do believe you did. What I mean by different play styles is that you seem to want him to go in depth on each point and I feel like he was making a brief overview of the comments he felt he could based on time. That isn't really a bad thing at that point in the day, if he was still doing it now, that's a bit different but early to mid-day 1 catch up posts like these are actually fairly helpful.

It has been done. It used to actually be the norm for lover pairings to be one town one scum, however this also usually meant the opposite alignment lover could win with his lover's alignment in certain end game scenarios if they were still alive.

Link to a game that has opposite alignments ? (i know the one i hosted did have one. ) I say this, because iirc most people being shocked that it was a possibility for opposite alignments, and had been more used to same alignments. (or the cupid version)

viewtopic.php?f=610&t=128381&hilit=quentin

That's the only one I remember specifically. Another Safari game might have one. I know he liked Lovers but the only other specific example I could think of was POTC and I believe that one was town-town.

I don't really like how you say this like you figured it out yourself. Pancake mentioned he was doing this. Maybe you missed that fact when he said it earlier in the game but this just rubs me the wrong way. I don't really see as much fluff here as you do. Seems like Pancake is addressing things as he reads them, maybe he doesn't comment on everything but he goes into some of the details and he made a point in regards to Streaker "pounding the hammer" on the Ultra case which was kind of ignored in game. I don't think that's a complete throwaway line.

Pretty sure i'm not saying i "figured it out myself" or anything along those lines. The point was he had asked questions, that had been asked. and didn't help develop current theories that had been floating around. At the time i really felt pcm was just to disconnected to the game. Often a trait mafia show, since they don't really want to show interaction fo the game.

My point was a. that you seemed to miss where Pancake had said it earlier and b. that it felt implied like you had figured it out saying things like "more proof..." etc.

What im trying to say is we as the town, have discussed certain points all ready, and most of what he is saying is just repeating whats been said. i find that scummy.

Am i judging pcm different sure, that tends to happen. Some people are newer, some people are vets, some people you expect certain things etc.

And my point is you seem to be judging PCM the harshest out of everyone. Mtam who you seem to regard as a good player did not get as much attention as PCM and while I may have been more talkative than most, a case early on probably could have been made that I wasn't being very committed to actually scumhunting and that I was just pushing the bandwagon from the side line. It would have been wrong I would have rebutted it but I would like to hear why you never really said anything about it.

Feels like overreacting from Storr. He made a joke. Get over it.

As for the running theme in this game, i don't seem to get the jokes.... Hence why crasp is helping me out in that department, and now pcm is starting to use icons to help differentiate whats a joke, and a serious comment.

He is questioning the situation, he questions virus, he questions streaker. These look to me of attempts at figuring out the situation and looking for a direction to proceed. Your case kind of ignored those aspects of PCM's post.

while i agree on these points, as to what he is doing. I still stand at the time, it seemed he wasn't developing the game.

And we might have to agree to disagree. I thought questioning Virus was helpful, testing how committed he was to standing by Ultra's play. Streaker was another one. He had been one of the focus people earlier but kind of slipped a bit under the radar when the lover speculation started. You question people all the time, sometimes to never follow up. Why did you think PCM questioning Virus there was not helpful to the development of the game?

This feels like you are holding PCM to a standard that you haven't established for everyone in the game. Don't know where he stands? At this point I would say it is fairly clear he stands anti-Ultra and there's enough evidence out there to say that he is unsure about some of what Streaker has been doing. Do we know everything about his position? No. I think that's true of a lot of the people in this game. So in conclusion, I think your conclusion is mostly bs.

Again, holding people to different standards isn't shocking or scummy. And to say he had a scum read on streaker at that time, or any indication that he wants to look at streaker for a lynch is reaching. He had a lot of content on ultra, that i felt had all ready been said. I wanted him to contribute something else since he was lacking imo.

I didn't and would say he had a scum read on Streaker. I said he was trying to get a better read on what streaker was saying and I certainly wasn't saying he was trying to make streaker the lynch at that point. You're right those would have been a reach. I also believe you saying that that's what I was saying is a bit of a reach in and of itself.

So my analysis of your PCM post. I think you saw someone posting in a manner that you thought you could manipulate and trick town into thinking it was scummier than it actually was. I disagree with Pancake. I don't think it had anything to do with you wanting to take out someone who could go toe to toe with you as mafia usually tries to leave that in the night kills though perhaps getting town to go after a good player did present an extra thrill.

so what you just said is a staple of my style of play. Yes i do try and manipulate people / convince people of my views. this isn't shocking, new or surprising.

Really? I've seen you stretch a mole hill into a mountain but you did more than that here. You arranged your post in a way that to me looked like you were trying to prime a wrong reaction out of it. That is fishy to me.

This statement is scummy as hell (Note I don't have anything against the rest of his post so don't have anything to say on it). I don't really feel your follow up reasoning was much better:

While the statement looks scummy, how about the actions of those trying to act on something like this i said? Yes i'm talking about dd5, and how people are wagoning on with out much reason. This is a far scummier thing to do, since its an action to force a claim. Rather than looking for someone that is scum. So while my curiosity is apparent, its clear i know its for the best to not out for now.

That depends on your interpretation of the DD case. I would assume there is probably a scum on it whether DD is town or scum. The fact of the matter is though, DD's claim doesn't seem to match up with the flavor of other roles in the game. I know you don't like going by flavor but flavor in a claim that does not fit the game is a legitimate method of identifying a fake claim. As far as the people on that wagon, I would agree with Mtam right now that AoG has been very scummy and I am getting to the point where I expect him to flip scum regardless of what DD flips. As far as the Zivel statement, I am willing to accept that answer.

Yeah it's only an issue when Pancake doesn't know where to go.

Yes again, treating people differently in this game. I know its hard when you have a town read on someone, and you only give them a slap on the wrist, and when your scum suspect makes the same comment you throttle them.

So you trust him? You like the way he's posting? Kind of seems like a split hair difference. "Similar" "Same."

The difference between dd5, and pcm isn't split hair, its much more different than you make it imo. PCM made a post, dd5 responded to it. The response was very similar to my conclusion on a previous pcm post. dd5 added new content to the game.

Be specific. Because his ideas really did seem to go off of yours, even a lot of the ones that you had expressly said and "you respond to things as if you hadn't seen the new information and then also respond to the new information on top of that. Makes you seem like you're adding stuff to make your posts very long so that people will just skim through" might as well have been a quote from you.

PCM post, had been for the majority, catching up to the game, and rehashing all ready said stuff.

Yes. Because he was responding as he was writing as he has said. There's not really a case there. It's just your smoke screen to hide the fact that there isn't a case for you to make there.

As for if i trust him, its been addressed at this point, i'm leaning more on town for now though. At the time, i wasn't sure, i was just certain the comments are not similar.

That said, I think my biggest problem with your recent posts (particularly in handling the PCM one yes but overall), it seems like you are missing or ignoring a lot of details that normally you would notice. Also some of the people who did similar things as pancake or even worse got a slap on the wrist while you went after him. Perhaps you were tunneling and going into too far into it but your play today does not really seem like the play you've had in other games where I know you were town. Some of the elements are there but a lot of it just seems like it is for show.

Really? seems that its more about me being manipulative (guilty) , me treating people differently (guilty). Idk maybe you should reread the last game you hosted, and check the pcm/storr fight. Fairly certain i ignored a lot of what pcm said that game, and harped on him up and down for it. (reads in particular)

But I was making the points about what you missed throughout the case? didn't you see the references? The people you ignored, the points that PCM brought up that you missed. I mean you have pretty much flat out ignored Hotshot this game who really hasn't contributed much and what he had before today was what you were basically accusing PCM of doing in saying stuff that had already been said and making even less conclusions out of it.

Now am I comfortable with the manipulative aspect? No. As I said, I thought your intro was pretty bad and I would even dare to say that you've been trying to manipulate people's reactions to this case (trivializing it by not even bothering to respond to it. Acting unworried about a case. Saying you'll put it off until tomorrow and then coming back and challenging someone to push you now like you wanted to answer it immediately to begin with).

[strike wolf]

so what do you guys think of dd5's claimed role?

Difficult to prove and lower risk now that it is public knowledge. Rare enough though I would be impressed if he has indeed thought it up himself as a fake claim.

Alright so I had switched my vote to virus (p24)
I had three exams today so I am totally beat, I caught up but didn't really digest anything. So I'll try to have more tomorrow, possibly a vote change because if that VC is close at all then virus isn't getting lynched today.

@mtam, I really have no inclination to just up and sheep you when you have spent the majority of the game skimming and not really contributing, before you suddenly decide it is time for aog to die. Even since then it appears you cannot be bothered to remember what half the posts were about and who is who. WTH?
Also, you'll use your power to kill yourself tonight if dd is the lynch? Are you "Juliet"?

Fp'd by ultra
Well I am, but its okay because I am dumb

Not sure that was a positive question to ask.

[StorrZerg]

My point was a. that you seemed to miss where Pancake had said it earlier and b. that it felt implied like you had figured it out saying things like "more proof..." etc.

this is still a wrong conclusion to be making. things hadn't been figured out, since we had been waiting on ultra to respond... Thus we as the town, couldn't really be doing anything about ultra till he responded.

And my point is you seem to be judging PCM the harshest out of everyone. Mtam who you seem to regard as a good player did not get as much attention as PCM and while I may have been more talkative than most, a case early on probably could have been made that I wasn't being very committed to actually scumhunting and that I was just pushing the bandwagon from the side line. It would have been wrong I would have rebutted it but I would like to hear why you never really said anything about it.

So what? and you, i town read you earlier on so that's why i didn't bother???? lol???

And we might have to agree to disagree. I thought questioning Virus was helpful, testing how committed he was to standing by Ultra's play. Streaker was another one. He had been one of the focus people earlier but kind of slipped a bit under the radar when the lover speculation started. You question people all the time, sometimes to never follow up. Why did you think PCM questioning Virus there was not helpful to the development of the game?

sure him questioning up streaker is fine, yet did he follow up with it? Again, i felt the bulk of what he was doing had all ready been done. Thus it wasn't anything new for virus to talk about. couple that with pcm's mistake regarding lovers and what they claimed to be able to do and not do. So is it possible i missed a unique question from pcm directed towards virus, yes.

Really? I've seen you stretch a mole hill into a mountain but you did more than that here. You arranged your post in a way that to me looked like you were trying to prime a wrong reaction out of it. That is fishy to me.

by that exact definition "stretch a mole hill into a mountain" you are defending myself with your own words.

That depends on your interpretation of the DD case. I would assume there is probably a scum on it whether DD is town or scum. The fact of the matter is though, DD's claim doesn't seem to match up with the flavor of other roles in the game. I know you don't like going by flavor but flavor in a claim that does not fit the game is a legitimate method of identifying a fake claim. As far as the people on that wagon, I would agree with Mtam right now that AoG has been very scummy and I am getting to the point where I expect him to flip scum regardless of what DD flips. As far as the Zivel statement, I am willing to accept that answer.

Incorrect, his flavor does match. Since its julia x romeo or w/e that was pointed out. It seemed like it didn't match at first. and while your right flavor on claims can have benefits, its more often than not due to error on mod for the claim being weak. Thus, not something that the player has done to indicate their scummy behavior. So with that strike, those pushing DD for the claim, who was actually pushing because they thought dd5 was scum.

Be specific. Because his ideas really did seem to go off of yours, even a lot of the ones that you had expressly said and "you respond to things as if you hadn't seen the new information and then also respond to the new information on top of that. Makes you seem like you're adding stuff to make your posts very long so that people will just skim through" might as well have been a quote from you.

What else is there to be specific about??? dd5 straight up sheeping my reads, or coming up with them on their own doesn't matter compared to what pcm was doing. The difference is, he responded to a new post, which no one else responded to. PCM was responding to stuff in the thread, that largely had all ready been addressed. You really are grasping at the last bit.

Yes. Because he was responding as he was writing as he has said. There's not really a case there. It's just your smoke screen to hide the fact that there isn't a case for you to make there.

Yes there was a case.... The case being he isn't developing the game... Do i need to explain why i find people who fail to develop the game scummy?

But I was making the points about what you missed throughout the case? didn't you see the references? The people you ignored, the points that PCM brought up that you missed. I mean you have pretty much flat out ignored Hotshot this game who really hasn't contributed much and what he had before today was what you were basically accusing PCM of doing in saying stuff that had already been said and making even less conclusions out of it.

We have different views on what you I missed that i deemed unimportant, and what you deemed important, yes i saw them and responded accordingly. The opinions and or reads that pcm gave that I disregarded, like streaker. Yes, anyone else at the time I don't think so. So don't trump it up that much...

so what if i've ignored hot shot. now who is holding the double standards? criticizing me for holding people to double standards as "something a scum might do" when you are now doing the same thing. How many other people have ignored others? failed to make reads on people. well? PCM at the time struck out as someone who had been very lacking in content, and when he did produce content, it wasn't "good enough for my likings" thus why i pressured him.

Now am I comfortable with the manipulative aspect? No. As I said, I thought your intro was pretty bad and I would even dare to say that you've been trying to manipulate people's reactions to this case (trivializing it by not even bothering to respond to it. Acting unworried about a case. Saying you'll put it off until tomorrow and then coming back and challenging someone to push you now like you wanted to answer it immediately to begin with).

Peoples reaction to this case? absolutely i'm trying to manipulate peoples reaction on this case since its pretty bad. The focus on this case that largely stands is my push on pcm. Lacking the majority of the effort i've put into day 1, the reads i've given, the amount of stuff you agree with me on etc. I've made points and cases on several people in this game, so when you push me for one thing on pcm (and the zivel comment sure) yes i'm going to think it isn't a serious push. + considering much of this has to do with pcm, i felt the benefit of not bothering with this out weighed the risks. If i don't respond, sure i can see how it looks scummy. Yet, i saw no point with turning me vs pcm into this big fight like we had last game. I got what i wanted out of the push on pcm, since then he has been more active, and more involved with discussion, and pushing people and appears he is trying to solve the game.

As for challenging you, yes. If you are not going to bother with pushing me im not going to bother defending myself. I can't exactly risk letting myself be lynched on a last minitue push from you at the end of the day if i happen to be gone. Since its fairly easy on this forum for people to just vote and be gone the rest of the day. So while i do view this narrow minded push almost like a joke, i do understand the consequences that could happen if i fail to respect it if you actually do push me (which you are).

[Army of GOD]

@mtam, I really have no inclination to just up and sheep you when you have spent the majority of the game skimming and not really contributing, before you suddenly decide it is time for aog to die. Even since then it appears you cannot be bothered to remember what half the posts were about and who is who. WTH?
Also, you'll use your power to kill yourself tonight if dd is the lynch? Are you "Juliet"?

I'm surprised more people haven't picked up on the skimming part. He completely missed virus' power despite it being the topic of conversation for a few pages.








On an unrelated note though I find it a little odd that ultra's only ability in a non-vanilla game is the fact that he's " lovers" with virus (lovers in quotes because theyre not lovers by the classic definition). Idk what to make of it though.

[StorrZerg]

so are you still pushign dd5 aog?