Scotland independence

[saxitoxin]

well?

[2dimes]

Freedom?

[DoomYoshi]

Election on a Thursday I Approve (uncivilized countries hold elections on a weekend)
Scottish National Party promised a referendum if they received a majority. They received a majority and put forth a referendum. I Approve (carrying through a promise)
The First Minister's name is Salmon(d) I Disapprove (fish should not be eligible to hold office)
16 and 17 year olds are eligible to vote in the referendum I Disapprove (children are too impressionable)
---------------

Based on totally technical terms, it's a tie.

We have to go with the tiebreaker. The tiebreaker question is: Which action will do more to restore the Greatest Empire Ever, the English Empire?

Keeping Scotland in the UK is only the first step. We next need to take back the United States, China, India, Pakistan and most of Africa in Her Majesty's name.

Fucking punks.

[owenshooter]

*eyes bulging*...-eJn

[saxitoxin]

Keeping Scotland in the UK is only the first step. We next need to take back the United States, China, India, Pakistan and most of Africa in Her Majesty's name.

What Majesty? What if, in the post-independence chaos, England also declared independence from the UK, leaving the UK as just Wales? Should solo England hit the refresh button and make this Australian's son king?

[GoranZ]

well?

Its not a question if Scottish will declare independence, of course they will, the question is... who will recognize them first? I put my money on Argentina

[Army of GOD]

literally do not give a shit

[DoomYoshi]

Keeping Scotland in the UK is only the first step. We next need to take back the United States, China, India, Pakistan and most of Africa in Her Majesty's name.

What Majesty? What if, in the post-independence chaos, England also declared independence from the UK, leaving the UK as just Wales? Should solo England hit the refresh button and make this Australian's son king?

In that case, Wales and Hanover would form an alliance.

[notyou2]

Keeping Scotland in the UK is only the first step. We next need to take back the United States, China, India, Pakistan and most of Africa in Her Majesty's name.

What Majesty? What if, in the post-independence chaos, England also declared independence from the UK, leaving the UK as just Wales? Should solo England hit the refresh button and make this Australian's son king?

In that case, Wales and Hanover would form an alliance.

I believe Northern Ireland is also part of the UK.

[tzor]

I'll admit I'm split down the middle on this issue (and it's not because I'm half Scots).

I can see an argument for some degree of Scots independence. On the other hand there are advantages to being in the UK just as there are advantages to being in the EU, advantages that may be lost with independence.

Oh and not having the blue in the UK flag would be ... just odd ... just saying.

[owenshooter]

enough said...-eJn

[chang50]

The scòts are way too canny with money to commit financial suicide,i rxpect a no vote when push comes to shove.too many baby boomers with too much too lose..

[saxitoxin]

I support independence. On the one hand, I would agree with tzor and chang that it would probably be a disaster for Scotland in the long-run, but I don't live there so I don't care.

On the other hand, I think the wider world would benefit. Humza Yousef would likely be elevated to foreign minister in an independent Scotland, making him the first Muslim foreign minister in a European nation; this would help influence the continued retreat of Europe from the Middle East. And the SNP has committed to increasing immigration levels to Scotland by 30%, which would help solidify its control by continuing to diversify the electorate. Further, we could likely see an end to British nuclear weapons if London decides it's too expensive to build a new base. We may even see the rump British state surrendering its Security Council seat under pressure to the EU, which is generally too paralyzed to do something like exercise a veto, which would help embolden UN decisionmaking.

[AndyDufresne]

In my EU4 game, I am playing as a Pan-scandinavian empire, and I own the northern scottish islands. But I am also friends with the UK, since they are helping me dismantle the HRE and keep France in check.


--Andy

[notyou2]

I support independence. On the one hand, I would agree with tzor and chang that it would probably be a disaster for Scotland in the long-run, but I don't live there so I don't care.

On the other hand, I think the wider world would benefit. Humza Yousef would likely be elevated to foreign minister in an independent Scotland, making him the first Muslim foreign minister in a European nation; this would help influence the continued retreat of Europe from the Middle East. And the SNP has committed to increasing immigration levels to Scotland by 30%, which would help solidify its control by continuing to diversify the electorate. Further, we could likely see an end to British nuclear weapons if London decides it's too expensive to build a new base. We may even see the rump British state surrendering its Security Council seat under pressure to the EU, which is generally too paralyzed to do something like exercise a veto, which would help embolden UN decisionmaking.

Do you also support Quebec independence?

[saxitoxin]

I support independence. On the one hand, I would agree with tzor and chang that it would probably be a disaster for Scotland in the long-run, but I don't live there so I don't care.

On the other hand, I think the wider world would benefit. Humza Yousef would likely be elevated to foreign minister in an independent Scotland, making him the first Muslim foreign minister in a European nation; this would help influence the continued retreat of Europe from the Middle East. And the SNP has committed to increasing immigration levels to Scotland by 30%, which would help solidify its control by continuing to diversify the electorate. Further, we could likely see an end to British nuclear weapons if London decides it's too expensive to build a new base. We may even see the rump British state surrendering its Security Council seat under pressure to the EU, which is generally too paralyzed to do something like exercise a veto, which would help embolden UN decisionmaking.

Do you also support Quebec independence?

Rhetorically. Not practically, though, as PQ independence would eventually lead to the prairie provinces acceding to the U.S., despite what anyone says to the contrary.

[notyou2]

The Quebec populace would rather join the US than separate.

[GoranZ]

I support independence. On the one hand, I would agree with tzor and chang that it would probably be a disaster for Scotland in the long-run, but I don't live there so I don't care.

On the other hand, I think the wider world would benefit. Humza Yousef would likely be elevated to foreign minister in an independent Scotland, making him the first Muslim foreign minister in a European nation; this would help influence the continued retreat of Europe from the Middle East. And the SNP has committed to increasing immigration levels to Scotland by 30%, which would help solidify its control by continuing to diversify the electorate. Further, we could likely see an end to British nuclear weapons if London decides it's too expensive to build a new base. We may even see the rump British state surrendering its Security Council seat under pressure to the EU, which is generally too paralyzed to do something like exercise a veto, which would help embolden UN decisionmaking.

Independence by no means doesn't mean financial problems for the country that become independent... If the politicians work properly that country will prosper, simple as that... And with proper decisions Scotland might become even more prosperous then it is today.

[tzor]

The Quebec populace would rather join the US than separate.

The implication of that is to humorous to contemplate. I mean they already hate being in a nation where everyone speaks English, can you imagine being in a nation where everyone is expected to know both English (the minority language after 2045) and Spanish? They would blow a gasket.

Of course being their own country would only expose their crappy pseudo-French to the world.

[BigBallinStalin]

I support independence. On the one hand, I would agree with tzor and chang that it would probably be a disaster for Scotland in the long-run, but I don't live there so I don't care.

On the other hand, I think the wider world would benefit. Humza Yousef would likely be elevated to foreign minister in an independent Scotland, making him the first Muslim foreign minister in a European nation; this would help influence the continued retreat of Europe from the Middle East. And the SNP has committed to increasing immigration levels to Scotland by 30%, which would help solidify its control by continuing to diversify the electorate. Further, we could likely see an end to British nuclear weapons if London decides it's too expensive to build a new base. We may even see the rump British state surrendering its Security Council seat under pressure to the EU, which is generally too paralyzed to do something like exercise a veto, which would help embolden UN decisionmaking.

Independence by no means doesn't mean financial problems for the country that become independent... If the politicians work properly that country will prosper, simple as that... And with proper decisions Scotland might become even more prosperous then it is today.

In other words, "assume that it'll work, then it'll work!"

It's not that simple, and beyond politicians, you have voters, bureaucrats, and special interests mixed into the stew. Then there's external pressures--namely the UK and the EU. The EU and the UK can give Scotland economic nightmares by stifling international trade to it. Also, Scotland's Labor party, if they gain more control, can pass many policies that'll likely not be in Scotland's long-term interest.

[GoranZ]

I support independence. On the one hand, I would agree with tzor and chang that it would probably be a disaster for Scotland in the long-run, but I don't live there so I don't care.

On the other hand, I think the wider world would benefit. Humza Yousef would likely be elevated to foreign minister in an independent Scotland, making him the first Muslim foreign minister in a European nation; this would help influence the continued retreat of Europe from the Middle East. And the SNP has committed to increasing immigration levels to Scotland by 30%, which would help solidify its control by continuing to diversify the electorate. Further, we could likely see an end to British nuclear weapons if London decides it's too expensive to build a new base. We may even see the rump British state surrendering its Security Council seat under pressure to the EU, which is generally too paralyzed to do something like exercise a veto, which would help embolden UN decisionmaking.

Independence by no means doesn't mean financial problems for the country that become independent... If the politicians work properly that country will prosper, simple as that... And with proper decisions Scotland might become even more prosperous then it is today.

In other words, "assume that it'll work, then it'll work!"

It's not that simple, and beyond politicians, you have voters, bureaucrats, and special interests mixed into the stew. Then there's external pressures--namely the UK and the EU. The EU and the UK can give Scotland economic nightmares by stifling international trade to it. Also, Scotland's Labor party, if they gain more control, can pass many policies that'll likely not be in Scotland's long-term interest.

GDP of Scotland is almost the same to UK's average if we exclude North Sea oil and gas revenue... Generally if Scotland and UK arrange peaceful "divorce", meaning Scotland keeps UK's pound for now(GDP similarities dictate this move to be the best), keeps the same laws, basically they do everything without drastic measures then there wont be any financial problems both for Scotland or remaining of UK... And Scotland might even become richer in long term if they invest the revenue from Scottish Oil as Norway is doing now.
Conclusion: No drastic measures=Killer move against all those that are playing for problems for UK or Scotland atm, and longterm prosperity of Scotland. Joining EURO zone atm is probably the worst move Scottish politicians can make.

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/ec ... c-product/

[jammyjames]

But the North Sea Oil reserves are depleting, and there has been no evidence to suggest further oil has and will be located.

BP themselves have even said that the best thing for Scotland is to remain united within Great Britain.

Scotland, if independent, will need to find another currency for one. The bank of england have dictated they will not allow for the currency to be held by Scotland.

Following this, they will lose some key tax relief benefits that they gain from being a part of Great Britain.

Mark my words, If they become independant - I give it 10 years before scotland is in a state of despair.

[saxitoxin]

If Scotland becomes independent I think the rump UK will quickly exit the EU; the Conservatives will have to become more eurosceptic to fight off a surging UKIP. With the rump UK being 15% militarily weaker and having no influence in Brussels, it will essentially become useless to the U.S. which will drop it like a bad habit. There will be a contraction from the last posts of empire - Ulster, Malvinas, and Gibraltar - and we will see an England of the 1500s resurrected, an inoffensive, green and happy land with no pretensions of global influence, only concerned with curating its prestige through a renaissance of English culture. The collapse of Britain could be a great opportunity for England.

Mark my words, If they become independant - I give it 10 years before scotland is in a state of despair.

I would agree with that.

[notyou2]

The Quebec populace would rather join the US than separate.

The implication of that is to humorous to contemplate. I mean they already hate being in a nation where everyone speaks English, can you imagine being in a nation where everyone is expected to know both English (the minority language after 2045) and Spanish? They would blow a gasket.

Of course being their own country would only expose their crappy pseudo-French to the world.

That is exactly why I never understood why the populace felt that way.

[betiko]

If this shit happens it will open pandora s box in the entire europe.
Oh and no way wales and northern ireland won t ask for the same referendum soon.

And what a pitty for the beautifull union jack. Will australia, new zealand and all those strange islands with a union jack modify their flag too?