CHINA IS A DEMOCRACY!!!

[mrswdk]

Votes just in. 1.3 billion people voted for Taiwan and Tibet to remain within the People's Republic. 0.1> billion people voted for independence.

Hooray for democracy. Group hug!

[targetman377]

china makes me proud

[BigBallinStalin]

[shickingbrits]

Do you think China should change it's 5000 year history because BBS thinks so?

[notyou2]

Yeah, and the followers of Isis are a peace loving people that respect other religions.

[BigBallinStalin]

Do you think China should change it's 5000 year history because BBS thinks so?

Do you think all countries should revert back to their 5000 year baseline of autocracy because you think so?

[AndyDufresne]

Chairman Mao-Shaped Fruit Are Being Grown in China


--Andy

[shickingbrits]

Reverting back is what saved China from it's downfall. If a once autocratic nation pursues democracy because you think they should and it sucks, should they just suck it up?

[BigBallinStalin]

Reverting back is what saved China from it's downfall. If a once autocratic nation pursues democracy because you think they should and it sucks, should they just suck it up?

No, I'm not saying that, nor did I say, "democracy sucks." lrn2steelman.

I'm still not seeing any good reason behind your first statement about countries reverting to autocracy. In general, it seems incorrect to insist that all currently democratic governments must revert to autocracy, right?

What did China "revert from"? Would you care to explain how China was democratic during the 1920s-1949?

There was the warlords period intertwined with the big battle between the Guomingdang and the CCP (and Japan). Where are all the democracies to revert from? China went from a period of decentralized autocracies to one big autocracy...

[shickingbrits]

China, since it's recognizable inception, was always autocratic, except for a brief period when it was not. My first statement was that "Do you think China should change it's 5000 year history because BBS thinks so?" The only time in China's history that it was not autocratic is when it was a puppet state. Reverting back to an autocracy is what saved it from being a puppet state and has allowed it to become the place it now is.

I don't think all democratic governments should revert back to autocracies, only the ones where democracy has failed. In the 60's, the Vietnamese electorate elected to be an autocracy. Folks like you who insisted that it be a democracy forced a war upon them, failed and now as an autocracy it has finally managed to unfetter itself of its colonial chains.

Why would China, who as an autocracy, lead the world for 90% of it's history, and is currently leading the world, choose a to pursue a style of government that would cast them into turmoil?

[AndyDufresne]

China, since it's recognizable inception, was always autocratic, except for a brief period when it was not. My first statement was that "Do you think China should change it's 5000 year history because BBS thinks so?" The only time in China's history that it was not autocratic is when it was a puppet state. Reverting back to an autocracy is what saved it from being a puppet state and has allowed it to become the place it now is.

I don't think all democratic governments should revert back to autocracies, only the ones where democracy has failed. In the 60's, the Vietnamese electorate elected to be an autocracy. Folks like you who insisted that it be a democracy forced a war upon them, failed and now as an autocracy it has finally managed to unfetter itself of its colonial chains.

Why would China, who as an autocracy, lead the world for 90% of it's history, and is currently leading the world, choose a to pursue a style of government that would cast them into turmoil?

--Andy

[shickingbrits]

China, since it's recognizable inception, was always autocratic, except for a brief period when it was not. My first statement was that "Do you think China should change it's 5000 year history because BBS thinks so?" The only time in China's history that it was not autocratic is when it was a puppet state. Reverting back to an autocracy is what saved it from being a puppet state and has allowed it to become the place it now is.

I don't think all democratic governments should revert back to autocracies, only the ones where democracy has failed. In the 60's, the Vietnamese electorate elected to be an autocracy. Folks like you who insisted that it be a democracy forced a war upon them, failed and now as an autocracy it has finally managed to unfetter itself of its colonial chains.

Why would China, who as an autocracy, lead the world for 90% of it's history, and is currently leading the world, choose a to pursue a style of government that would cast them into turmoil?

--Andy

[BigBallinStalin]

China, since it's recognizable inception, was always autocratic, except for a brief period when it was not. My first statement was that "Do you think China should change it's 5000 year history because BBS thinks so?" The only time in China's history that it was not autocratic is when it was a puppet state. Reverting back to an autocracy is what saved it from being a puppet state and has allowed it to become the place it now is.

So... the Qing Dynasty was not autocratic because foreign governments largely controlled political policy in certain areas and usually bullied the Qing Dynasty? Being puppeted (or rather being partially occupied) and being autocrat aren't mutually exclusive political statuses...

During the warlords period of the 20s and up to 1949, many regions of China were hardly puppeted by foreign powers (except for those in the North when conquered by Japan)... and then somehow the PRC's defeating the Guomingdang, which also wasn't a puppet, saved China from being puppeted even though it wasn't during that time??

I don't think all democratic governments should revert back to autocracies, only the ones where democracy has failed. In the 60's, the Vietnamese electorate elected to be an autocracy. Folks like you who insisted that it be a democracy forced a war upon them, failed and now as an autocracy it has finally managed to unfetter itself of its colonial chains.

How is this relevant? China was never democratic...

Given your vast knowledge of the modern history of China, I'm sure your analysis about the modern history of Vietnam is correct.

Why would China, who as an autocracy, lead the world for 90% of it's history, and is currently leading the world, choose a to pursue a style of government that would cast them into turmoil?

What do you mean by "China" deciding?

[shickingbrits]

The Goumingdang was not defeated by the PRC. The CCP forced them flee to an island now called Taiwan and they are considered a democratic party. They were, and are supported by westerners.

Do you understand the meaning of autocratic?

China was being controlled by the French, British, Americans, Japanese and the Germans. China didn't shake western influence until the late sixties and when Deng Xiaoping reopened the doors to the west it was not for western political influence but for trade.

China's lack of development prior to the 18th century was due to the imbalance created by the eunuchs in the 15th century. This was only highlighted by the arrival of the west. In general, I would say that China would be better to revert further to smaller competing states.

By "China", I mean the potential electorate. The average Chinese person pays no taxes, has cheap healthcare, access to education, financial opportunity and is free from constant government interference. The average Chinese person is proud to be Chinese and lend their support to a system that has withstood 5000 years.

[mrswdk]

I saw a recent poll of Americans in which only 10% said they were satisfied with Congress. This is significantly lower than Chinese and Singaporean people's level of satisfaction with their governments.

[BigBallinStalin]

So...

1. you didn't address the contradiction in your post, but instead brought up an insubstantial squabble.
(I guess the GMD wasn't defeated cuz they run Taiwan but lost nearly all of China. The GMD were definitely victorious there!)

2. Contrary to history, European governments controlled Communist China in the 1950s. Were the European powers responsible for the PRC's decision to invade South Korea? Did they previously force the GMD to attack the PRC during the 30s and 40s?

3. If you were presented with contradictory information, would you (a) scream vehemently then pound out a response equivalent to a screaming Captain Kirk.gif, or (b) provide evidence beyond your words?

[BigBallinStalin]

I saw a recent poll of Americans in which only 10% said they were satisfied with Congress. This is significantly lower than Chinese and Singaporean people's level of satisfaction with their governments.

The only way the average American pays no taxes, has cheap healthcare, access to education, financial opportunity and is free from constant government interference is to revert back to 5000-year-old Chinese Autocracy but with Communist and Capitalist characteristics!!! BANZAI! BANZAI! BANZAI!

[shickingbrits]

Considering the history books show that China was a democracy, the onus is yours to prove it wasn't.

Considering that the democracy was put in place, supported by the west and continues to receive support from the west, it's up to to prove it was not if that is what you wish to contend.

I did not say that European powers controlled communist China in the 50's. What I did say is that China didn't shake western influence until the 60's. Being that you have talked shit up to this point, again it's up to you to prove otherwise.

[Dukasaur]

Considering the history books show that China was a democracy, the onus is yours to prove it wasn't.

I'm sorry, I must have gone to a school with a horridly underfunded library program. Please point me to a history book that states this, so that I can cauterize my ignorance.

[shickingbrits]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_China

They had a war over it or something.

[Dukasaur]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_China

They had a war over it or something.

Yes, there were some attempts to bring democracy to China, but as far as I know none of them were ever successful.

Typical episode (direct quote from the link you posted):

President Xu Shichang organized elections for a third assembly in 1921 but with only 11 provinces voting it never had a quorum and thus never convened. That was the last attempt to hold national elections until 1947. All assemblies were dissolved after the Nationalists' Northern Expedition.

The formation of the Nationalist single-party state in 1927 implemented the late Sun's "political tutelage" program which forbade elections until the people were considered properly educated.

So, yeah, the concept of democracy was there, but nobody ever succeeded in ever establishing it in practise.

[shickingbrits]

And BBS will be the one to do so? Or perhaps the US?

Will it be a Pakistani style democracy or an Indian style democracy? No, a Chinese style one. Which means what exactly?

What grand new possibilities will a democracy bring? Expensive elections geared to a mob that would be happy to reenact the Rape of Nanking 24/7 throughout Japan. Electing officials who promise to repatriate Taiwan and to hell with its allies. Blaming the other parties for any mistakes and creating a synthesis that would royally f*ck over the populace. Nit-picking over coins while the vaults are being given away.

I wonder why it never succeeded.

[mrswdk]

The only way the average American pays no taxes, has cheap healthcare, access to education, financial opportunity and is free from constant government interference is to revert back to 5000-year-old Chinese Autocracy but with Communist and Capitalist characteristics!!! BANZAI! BANZAI! BANZAI!

frysquinting.jpg

[AndyDufresne]

3. If you were presented with contradictory information, would you (a) scream vehemently then pound out a response equivalent to a screaming Captain Kirk.gif, or (b) provide evidence beyond your words?

--Andy

[BigBallinStalin]

And BBS will be the one to do so? Or perhaps the US?

Will it be a Pakistani style democracy or an Indian style democracy? No, a Chinese style one. Which means what exactly?

What grand new possibilities will a democracy bring? Expensive elections geared to a mob that would be happy to reenact the Rape of Nanking 24/7 throughout Japan. Electing officials who promise to repatriate Taiwan and to hell with its allies. Blaming the other parties for any mistakes and creating a synthesis that would royally f*ck over the populace. Nit-picking over coins while the vaults are being given away.

I wonder why it never succeeded.

Hey! With those reasons, why don't you support autocracy in the US? Maybe your future overlords would give you some coins from the vaults.