A Song of Ice and Fire Book Series Thread (MAJOR SPOILERS)

[strike wolf]

Admittedly, this is completely overdue. Also seriously don't read any of this if you have not read ALL of the books. Furthermore for those who have read excerpts from the upcoming book, please leave those in spoilers.

If you read beyond this point, I am not liable for any spoilers.




















Anyways just gonna go off the wall with this last pick but dragon riders:

1. Daenerys Targaryen
2. Jon Snow
3. Theon Greyjoy

I mean can you imagine it? Jon and Theon falling onto the same side after all that's happened?

Who kills who:

1. Jon kills Melissandre
2. Arya kills Jaime Lannister
3. Sansa kills Littlefinger
4. Nymeria (or possibly Ghost or Shaggydog) kills Ramsay Snow (after hunting everyone down it will be delicious pay back for him to be hunted down himself)
5. Selmy kills Daenerys
6. Jaime kills Cersei
7. Arya kills Aegon the Fake.
8. Theon and Asha kill Euron Greyjoy
9. Daenerys kills Daario Naharis (Betrayed for love! yeah yeah. You could argue that's Jorah Mormont but Jorah technically never betrayed her.)
10. Sam kills Jaqen H'ghar

Okay those two with Arya are pretty random but she's training to be an assassin. I had to give her a couple of kills.
-Valar Doheris

[gordon1975]

whens the new one out?

[patches70]

whens the new one out?

No one knows. As Martin puts it, "The books will be done when they're done".

[patches70]

Anyways just gonna go off the wall with this last pick but dragon riders:

1. Daenerys Targaryen
2. Jon Snow
3. Theon Greyjoy

Theon? A dragon rider? Hahahaha! Theon's broke, I mean really, really broken.
Jon Snow I could see, Bran Stark, sure, Theon? No way. He'll be lucky to get away from

Spoiler

Stannis alive. Stannis is going to kill his ass, even if Theon confess that he didn't actually kill the Stark boys. Theon is alive at the moment, but only because Stannis needs him in the near term. His chances of surviving are getting pretty damn slim.

I mean can you imagine it? Jon and Theon falling onto the same side after all that's happened?

Oh, sure, I anticipate some type of reconciliation before it's all over, but Theon ain't gonna make it to the end. IMO. I have faith that Theon will redeem himself somehow before he shuffles from the mortal realm.

Who kills who:

1. Jon kills Melissandre
2. Arya kills Jaime Lannister
3. Sansa kills Littlefinger
4. Nymeria (or possibly Ghost or Shaggydog) kills Ramsay Snow (after hunting everyone down it will be delicious pay back for him to be hunted down himself)
5. Selmy kills Daenerys
6. Jaime kills Cersei
7. Arya kills Aegon the Fake.
8. Theon and Asha kill Euron Greyjoy
9. Daenerys kills Daario Naharis (Betrayed for love! yeah yeah. You could argue that's Jorah Mormont but Jorah technically never betrayed her.)
10. Sam kills Jaqen H'ghar

Okay those two with Arya are pretty random but she's training to be an assassin. I had to give her a couple of kills.
-Valar Doheris

Jamie is not on Arya's list. If she knew that it was Jamie who pushed Bran out the window, that would change. But alas, Arya holds no special hatred toward Jamie Lannister, thus I think he is safe from her talents.

1. maybe.
2. Nope, Jamie just might make it to the end. Or it'll be Tyrion who kills him. Murder suicide Jamie/Cersi is possible.
3. Yeah, Sansa kills Littlefinger.
4. Theon kills Ramsay.
5. Haha, no way. Selmy dies protecting Daenerys. No one kills Daenerys.
6. Yeah.
7. Maybe. Or, one of the Sand Snakes kills Aegon. Or maybe even Arianne kills him, on their wedding night.
8. Asha kills Euron. But Euron is a bad ass. One of the most bad ass characters in the books and he'll be having a bigger role in the upcoming books. It might be that Euron kills Asha.
9. Yeah, why not. Hahaha!
10. No! Wait, maybe.

Here you go, Arya is going to kill-
Ser Ilyn Payne, Meryn Trant, Walder Frey and her sister, Sansa.

Sandor Clegane is going to kill Ser Robert Strong.

Sansa is going to kill Stannis.

Bran kills the white walker King, with a dragon.

Daenerys kills Victorian Greyjoy.

Sansa is destined to become another Cersi, that's why she's going to get whacked and it's going to be her sister who does the deed. I know, that one is out there. But Arya won't have much of a choice.

[patches70]

10. Sam kills Jaqen H'ghar

Oh, this or even better, Sarella Sand kills Jaqen H'ghar.

Alternately, Jaqen H'ghar kills Sarella and then Sam kills Jaqen.

All plausible.

[strike wolf]

Theon killing Ramsay seems too obvious. It would be a nice redemption but no. Having Ramsay hunted down by one of the Stark wolves just seems like such delicious poetic justice that I really hope that they go that direction. I say Nymeria but it may be that Shaggydog at Rickon's command is more likely.

I actually mention Theon just because I don't feel like most people would think of it. It makes a sort of bizarre sense in my head though. I don't think Stannis will kill him. He might end up killing Asha but Theon will probably get away. I am not sure Stannis dies. He probably will but maybe the whole thing about him not bending may be there to throw us off when he does bend the knee. I think poor Davos may die too.

I think Daenerys will die, simply because it kind of feels that she is destined to be one of those characters that like Arya is destined to become darker in the next book. I think Selmy may see what she has become and remembering Aerys, kills her to spare Westeros from dragon fire. It's a probably not but it would make an interesting story. I mean reading his chapters and Jaime's chapters, I feel like he is more like Jaime than he realizes and I feel it is possible for him to make the same choice as Jaime if the conditions are right. Like witnessing Daenerys using her dragons to burn down a town full of people. Ultimately I could see him and Jon (now a dragon rider) conspire together to kill her before she gets even more out of hand). Jorah will probably end up dying for Daenerys at some point, more so than Selmy.

I think Jaqen kills Sarella (but under whose contract? could he actually be hired by her?) and Sam kills him immediately after.

Someone does have to kill Walder Frey, I forgot about him. I am unsure who kills Roose Bolton. But the rest of the ones on Arya's list aren't serious enough for me to go over.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Haven't read the upcoming Winds of Winter excerpt, but isn't Stannis' army pretty much annihilated from the snow storm? Is he gonna be much of a threat?

-TG

[strike wolf]

Haven't read the upcoming Winds of Winter excerpt, but isn't Stannis' army pretty much annihilated from the snow storm? Is he gonna be much of a threat?

-TG

Don't know. After Tyrion escaped certain death though, I am not counting anyone out.

[patches70]

isn't Stannis' army pretty much annihilated from the snow storm?

Nope.

Is he gonna be much of a threat?

-TG

Probably. Ole Ramsay Bolton is sending out some of his army to wipe out Stannis. Of course, Ramsay is only sending his Frey troops, you know, just in case Stannis is a bit tougher than the bastard thinks. Ramsay won't miss the Frey troops very much.

What's going to happen? I don't know, guess we'll have to read the book to find out whenever it comes out. But I do know this much-

Spoiler

Stannis' army has taken a beating. But he makes the final terms with a banker from Braavos, who is there at the snowed in camp with Stannis. After the deal is done and the banker has been given escort back to Eastwatch to catch a ship back home, Stannis orders one of his most trusted knights to go to Braavos and hire at least 20,000 mercenaries with the newly acquired funds.

Haha, on a side note, Stannis not only has to assume all of Robert's outstanding debt, but Stannis also has to assume all of Jeoffry's outstanding debt as well. Stannis was none too pleased with that, but he had little choice.

Anyway, and this is the crux, the knight in question told Stannis that it would be better if Stannis himself went. The knight reasons that if Stannis' army is defeated by the advancing Ramsay troops, at least Stannis himself will still be alive and can come back from Braavos with all those troops.
Stannis on the other hand responds with something like- "You told me to leave the battle of the blackwater, and I left. Now you say to go into exile and return later. How many have done the same and never returned? Wasn't Viserys called 'The beggar Prince'? No, I'll not leave, I'll stay here where I belong. With my men."

Stannis is going to live or die depending on this battle(s), he ain't running. Ramsay outnumbers him 10 to 1 or so. But like I said, Ramsay is being a bit timid, only sending a portion of his forces against Stannis. It's likely that Ramsay is just trying to get rid of his Frey troops, because he doesn't much like them.

Unfortunately, Ramsay is unaware of the traitor in his midst who he thinks is his ally......

[TA1LGUNN3R]

It'd be pretty miraculous if Stannis and an appreciable fraction of the army are still alive by the time the banker gets all the way back and 20k troops (of mercenaries) are sent out. Winter is no time to wage war.

-TG

[patches70]

It'd be pretty miraculous if Stannis and an appreciable fraction of the army are still alive by the time the banker gets all the way back and 20k troops (of mercenaries) are sent out. Winter is no time to wage war.

-TG

That's true, but if you read the last book then you know all is not what it appears.

Do you remember what happened to The Onion Knight?

[TA1LGUNN3R]

It'd be pretty miraculous if Stannis and an appreciable fraction of the army are still alive by the time the banker gets all the way back and 20k troops (of mercenaries) are sent out. Winter is no time to wage war.

-TG

That's true, but if you read the last book then you know all is not what it appears.

Do you remember what happened to The Onion Knight?

Ah, I had totally forgotten his deal with Manderly. Good point. Still. I guess as much as I dislike Stannis as a character, I'm interested to see how he'll fare in the near future. I, too, think that he'll get killed and Mellisandre will focus on Jon Snow as the new Azor Ahai.

-TG

[patches70]

Ha! I was just reviewing Episode 8, The Viper and The Mountain and in one scene something struck me as pretty damn obvious. In regards to the above "who kills who".

Roose makes Ramsay his heir and a thought crossed my mind for a second. I thought, "Man, Roose gotta watch his back now that he made that freak Ramsay the heir to the Bolton House."

So there ya go.

Ramsay kills Roose.

[patches70]

Hey, let's explore fatal flaws. Every character in the series has flaws, and I think every single one of them has a fatal flaw, something that's going to get them killed one day.

For instance, Oberyn's fatal flaw was that he just couldn't let go of the past.

Ned Stark's fatal flaw was that he was too honorable.


Robert's fatal flaw was he was a drunk.

How about Rob? What was his fatal flaw?
Jeoffry's?
Who are some other majorish characters that died?
Renly.
The Mountain.


Let's do some others. One's who haven't died yet, but if they were to die, what will their fatal flaws be?
Tyrion.
Jamie.
Cersi.
Arya.
Jon Snow.
The Hound.
Ser Robert Strong.
Theon.
Stannis.
Asha.
Euron.



And any others anyone wishes to bring up.

[patches70]

Well, I guess we've learned the fate of Jojen Reed in the next book. He's gonna die for sure.

Though that outcome has already been alluded to in the book, in the series Jojen died there in the season finale. In the book Jojen made it to the three eyed crow, he didn't die outside that cave.

Now as is already known, Martin revealed how the series ends to the producers of the tv series. So it appears that Jojen though hasn't died yet in the books, his death is coming and that whatever transpires in the book until he dies isn't that significant.

Though the paths are often different with the characters in the books verses the characters in the series, they are all going to wind up at their fated destinations as described in the books. Thus we know that Jojen is not long in his life in the books. Meera is gonna be bummed. Maybe Meera and Bran are going to hook up one day?


Oh! And no Coldhands in the season finale. WTF?????

It was cool seeing Leaf though. Will the other Children be in the three eyed crow's cave as well?

[strike wolf]

Hey, let's explore fatal flaws. Every character in the series has flaws, and I think every single one of them has a fatal flaw, something that's going to get them killed one day.

For instance, Oberyn's fatal flaw was that he just couldn't let go of the past.

Ned Stark's fatal flaw was that he was too honorable.


Robert's fatal flaw was he was a drunk.

How about Rob? What was his fatal flaw?
Jeoffry's?
Who are some other majorish characters that died?
Renly.
The Mountain.


Let's do some others. One's who haven't died yet, but if they were to die, what will their fatal flaws be?
Tyrion.
Jamie.
Cersi.
Arya.
Jon Snow.
The Hound.
Ser Robert Strong.
Theon.
Stannis.
Asha.
Euron.



And any others anyone wishes to bring up.

Well it is probably not fair to limit it to one fatal flaw as it usually is a mixture of several and some of these fatal flaws are their own strengths as well but:

Robb Stark-Love
Joffreys-Arrogance of power
Renley-thought he was immortal.
The Mountain-That sadistic streak came back to haunt him.
Tyrion-Hmmm perhaps random bouts of honor though there's also the "ugly people are bad" bias.
Jaime-His conflicted relationship with honor.
Cersei-Vanity and self-victimization. She is so convinced that everyone is out to get her that she can't see past it.
Arya-Obsession with death.
Jon Snow-Random bouts of emotion that jeopardize what he stands for.
The Hound-Too evil to be liked by Arya Stark. Too good to get along with the Lannisters long term and too scared of fire to not back down from it.
Ser Robert Strong-Really? we've barely even been introduced to him.
Theon-Daddy issues.
Stannis-Stannis does not bend.
Asha-This is a tough one. I will have to think on it.
Euron-Tough one. As well. Probably that he can't deliver long term on what he has promised. Overreaching ideals.
Tywin-He doesn't sh*t gold.

Daenerys (since you left her out)-Targaryen Madness.

I like the Ramsay killing Roose theory but I don't think it will be easy. Ramsay still needs Roose for now and Roose is wary enough of Ramsay that he won't drop his guard easily.

You've missed the most important thing about Jojen's death. It would seem to disprove the "Jojenpaste" theory.

[patches70]

Hey, I like your list there, Strikewolf! Nice.

I would like to add something-

Tyrion-Hmmm perhaps random bouts of honor though there's also the "ugly people are bad" bias.

I think Tyrion's fatal flaw is going to be that he's just not a cold blooded killer at heart. Sure, he murdered Shae pretty good, and stuck a couple of crossbow bolts into his father, but there were extenuating circumstances in those killings. He was pretty much driven to it.
Tyrion is going to show mercy one day to someone he shouldn't have shown mercy and it's going to come back to bite him in the ass.

I've been thinking about what direction the show is going to go into next season, and it looks to me that it's going to be a lot of the Ironborn, Victorian, Euron, Balen. That whole deal. With the most interesting characters in Kingslanding either fled or dead, well.

and hahah, "Tywin-He doesn't shit gold". Good one! Did you notice the slight foreshadowing early on in the season finale? Arya is there practicing with Needle when Brienn and Pod come along. She yells to The Hound "Someone's coming, take your shit later" or was it "hurry up and finish your shit"? I can't remember exactly.
It was the first potty joke/reference, the second being, of course, Tywin dying on the shitter. Made me chuckle when Arya said that early on in the episode since I knew what was coming. I think it was at that moment that I knew that they were going to show Tyrion killing Tywin that very episode.
Haha, sometimes the writing in the tv series is sub par, but often there are little gems like that interwoven.


For the record, of all the characters, Euron might be the only one who may not actually have a fatal flaw. Euron is a serious badass, probably the most badass of all the characters in the series. He's is going to be a major player in the last two books (if he survives "Winds of Winter" that is).
But your call on his fatal flaw may well be the correct one.

Asha's fatal flaw is Theon. IMO. And yeah, I threw Ser Robert Strong in there as kind of a joke. His fatal flaw is that he is undead. Hahahaha! He's already dead! Bwahahaha!

You've missed the most important thing about Jojen's death. It would seem to disprove the "Jojenpaste" theory.

I don't think I'm familiar with this theory. Can you elaborate for me?

[strike wolf]

In book 5 when Bran is given the paste of Weirwood seeds, there's a theory that he was actually being fed "Meera and Jojenpaste" which is why you don't see them after he wakes up.

Tyrion's an odd one. Partly because I do believe he will be one of the few that lives until the end.

I believe it was "You can shit later. We have company"

[patches70]

In book 5 when Bran is given the paste of Weirwood seeds, there's a theory that he was actually being fed "Meera and Jojenpaste" which is why you don't see them after he wakes up.

Ahhh, I don't buy that I don't think. I'm pretty sure that Jojen knows exactly when he's going to die and it's going to be when he is returning to Deepwood Motte. Or so he believes.

Tyrion's an odd one. Partly because I do believe he will be one of the few that lives until the end.

Well, if anyone deserves to live until the end, it's Tyrion, IMO. I think he'll live to the end as well, but one can never be too sure in GoT.

I believe it was "You can shit later. We have company"

Hahaha! That's it! Would have been good advice for Tywin as well! Hahaha.

[strike wolf]

I don't buy Jojenpaste either. I think he'd be a little more cautious of the Squirrel's if he knew they were going to kill him. Like you know, try to warn Bran or something.

[strike wolf]

So I have to admit, I was expecting them to introduce Caitlyn the Vengeful in the finale and was surprised when she did not make an appearance. What are your opinions? When will she make an appearance? Will they stick true to the books? Or make her less grotesque looking to relate to fans? Will they find a way to skip over her altogether like they did Coldhands?

[patches70]

So I have to admit, I was expecting them to introduce Caitlyn the Vengeful in the finale and was surprised when she did not make an appearance. What are your opinions? When will she make an appearance? Will they stick true to the books? Or make her less grotesque looking to relate to fans? Will they find a way to skip over her altogether like they did Coldhands?

I think she'll make an appearance in the show. It just wasn't the time yet for her to make that appearance in season 4. Brienne is searching for Arya and the Hound in the saltpans when she learns from that elder brother about the Hound's fate. Stoneheart doesn't appear until after the Hound dies. And some time after I might add.

I think Brienne will run into Stoneheart at some point next season, after all, what is left for her to do now? I guess she can keep looking for Sansa. If they don't use Stoneheart then it'll be Littlefinger stringing Brienne and Pod up when they show up at The Vale looking for Sansa. Now that would be a wild turn of events, wouldn't it?

My opinion is that in season 5, Brienne's story line ends on a cliffhanger, with her and Pod hanging at the end of ropes about to die at the cold hands of Lady Stoneheart. In season 6 we'll find out how Brienne survives, and find out if Pod makes it as well. But by then we'll probably already know when we read Winds of Winter.

[strike wolf]

So I have to admit, I was expecting them to introduce Caitlyn the Vengeful in the finale and was surprised when she did not make an appearance. What are your opinions? When will she make an appearance? Will they stick true to the books? Or make her less grotesque looking to relate to fans? Will they find a way to skip over her altogether like they did Coldhands?

I think she'll make an appearance in the show. It just wasn't the time yet for her to make that appearance in season 4. Brienne is searching for Arya and the Hound in the saltpans when she learns from that elder brother about the Hound's fate. Stoneheart doesn't appear until after the Hound dies. And some time after I might add.

I think Brienne will run into Stoneheart at some point next season, after all, what is left for her to do now? I guess she can keep looking for Sansa. If they don't use Stoneheart then it'll be Littlefinger stringing Brienne and Pod up when they show up at The Vale looking for Sansa. Now that would be a wild turn of events, wouldn't it?

My opinion is that in season 5, Brienne's story line ends on a cliffhanger, with her and Pod hanging at the end of ropes about to die at the cold hands of Lady Stoneheart. In season 6 we'll find out how Brienne survives, and find out if Pod makes it as well. But by then we'll probably already know when we read Winds of Winter.

Lady Stoneheart actually makes her appearance in the Epilogue of Book 3, hanging a Frey. Before Brienne's story line even started.

[patches70]

So I have to admit, I was expecting them to introduce Caitlyn the Vengeful in the finale and was surprised when she did not make an appearance. What are your opinions? When will she make an appearance? Will they stick true to the books? Or make her less grotesque looking to relate to fans? Will they find a way to skip over her altogether like they did Coldhands?

I think she'll make an appearance in the show. It just wasn't the time yet for her to make that appearance in season 4. Brienne is searching for Arya and the Hound in the saltpans when she learns from that elder brother about the Hound's fate. Stoneheart doesn't appear until after the Hound dies. And some time after I might add.

I think Brienne will run into Stoneheart at some point next season, after all, what is left for her to do now? I guess she can keep looking for Sansa. If they don't use Stoneheart then it'll be Littlefinger stringing Brienne and Pod up when they show up at The Vale looking for Sansa. Now that would be a wild turn of events, wouldn't it?

My opinion is that in season 5, Brienne's story line ends on a cliffhanger, with her and Pod hanging at the end of ropes about to die at the cold hands of Lady Stoneheart. In season 6 we'll find out how Brienne survives, and find out if Pod makes it as well. But by then we'll probably already know when we read Winds of Winter.

Lady Stoneheart actually makes her appearance in the Epilogue of Book 3, hanging a Frey. Before Brienne's story line even started.

Oh, yeah, that's right. But all the Frey stuff has been ignored as well. Since the Red Wedding we haven't heard a darn thing about them. Or of the Brotherhood without Banners. Haven't seen them since when?
They'll introduce Stoneheart through Brienne's storyline, IMO. Maybe get a teaser of her wasting a few Frey's. Maybe the Brotherhood catches a couple of them (cough, Merret Petyr Frey, cough) and they are set down in front of someone off camera and they have looks of horror but it's not shown what's scaring the shit out of them. Next shot will be them hanging by the neck, dead.

We'll see soon enough!

[strike wolf]

Introducing it through Brienne's arc is a definite possibility. I am kind of hoping to see Nymeria dragging her out of the river though.