The Village of Secrets [GAME OVER] Werewolves Win!

[StorrZerg]

Jak why so willing to test me?

you not worried about vamps....

vote jmac

I've put my thoughts on jmac. I can see possible connections with sausag.
I'd love to push more on KGB, yet no one wants to talk.

[jak111]

I'm not sure I'm buying the bulletproof claim... and I'm not so sure I'm buying Jak's offer to test it. They are both unknowns in my book and could very well be working together. With nobody but jak shooting at night (or at least nobody else is killing) then the claim basically makes Storr a VT. I'd prefer to test the claim out in the open with a noose rather than rely on jak's word.[/color]

Do you understand how a bulletproof even works? Look at my Emotions Mafia again, the BP DIED because they were lynched. BP is only protected from a single night kill, lynches will kill them immediately.

That game wasn't that long ago, and the role pm is at the game end. Basically, if the BP is shot already then my shot would kill them, but if they're not shot already they will survive into the next day.

That's why I am asking Storr if he's been shot (it'd actually explain the lack of kills for at least one of the nights).

No one else has claimed doc or anything, so I am inclined to believe Storr has been shot N1.

That does more for him than it does for other players in the game at the moment.

Before someone places the hammer, what the hell is pcm? MP is willing to trust him, I am not willing to trust him forever. Tomorrow he could very well be anti-town and without a claim today we have no idea whether tomorrow it's fake or not.

[MudPuppy]

I'm not sure I'm buying the bulletproof claim... and I'm not so sure I'm buying Jak's offer to test it. They are both unknowns in my book and could very well be working together. With nobody but jak shooting at night (or at least nobody else is killing) then the claim basically makes Storr a VT. I'd prefer to test the claim out in the open with a noose rather than rely on jak's word.[/color]

Do you understand how a bulletproof even works? Look at my Emotions Mafia again, the BP DIED because they were lynched. BP is only protected from a single night kill, lynches will kill them immediately.

That game wasn't that long ago, and the role pm is at the game end. Basically, if the BP is shot already then my shot would kill them, but if they're not shot already they will survive into the next day.

That's why I am asking Storr if he's been shot (it'd actually explain the lack of kills for at least one of the nights).

No one else has claimed doc or anything, so I am inclined to believe Storr has been shot N1.

That does more for him than it does for other players in the game at the moment.

Before someone places the hammer, what the hell is pcm? MP is willing to trust him, I am not willing to trust him forever. Tomorrow he could very well be anti-town and without a claim today we have no idea whether tomorrow it's fake or not.

Yes, I understand how a bulletproof even works. When Storr his hung he will die and his flip will confirm his claim one way or the other. What I don't understand is how you so easily flipped on me. What I don't understand is how you are a claimed vampire slayer and with half the town dead there is no sign of any vampires.

IF you and Storr are working together, then he can claim BP and you can conveniently clear him. Jonty perhaps could have cleared him but since Storr already rallied up the town mob and lynched him, we no longer have that option.

So, no, I have little trust in you or Storr at this point.

IF (big IF) you are telling the truth about being a vampire slayer AND there is a cult out there... then sure pcm could have been turned. But until I see any evidence backing up that wild story, then I'm going with what I saw in the crystal ball... and that is pcm as a townie.

[jak111]

Yes, I understand how a bulletproof even works. When Storr his hung he will die and his flip will confirm his claim one way or the other.

You want to know how I can flip on you easily? Posts like this. That's like saying let's lynch kgb and confirm his role, let's lynch you and confirm your role (that just so happens the crystal ball "broke"), let's lynch spiesr to confirm his role.

Do you see how stupid that sounds? Storr is probably already shot, I don't think I need to shoot him tonight because there was only one kill N1, if Storr got hit, it'd explain it. No one has claimed doc. So if you want Storr lynched or shot at by me, you need to get pcm to do a full blown claim and explain how the hell can mafia not succeed in a single kill without no doc or roleblocker stopping them over two nights.

Do you see what I am getting at? I do not care if you trust me MP, no one else has stepped forward to provide information that could explain N1's odd no mafia kill.

[pancakemix]

@MP: My issue with giving jak another day is that he's already had three and with half the game dead, there's no trace of any vampires. That, and he just shoots randomly instead of following leads, his rationale being that if we wanted jmac dead we should have lynched him. And now look what you're doing.

If you think he's scum don't throw him a bone. Or two, for that matter. Especially if you won't throw him Storr's claim.

Yes, I understand how a bulletproof even works. When Storr his hung he will die and his flip will confirm his claim one way or the other.

You want to know how I can flip on you easily? Posts like this. That's like saying let's lynch kgb and confirm his role, let's lynch you and confirm your role (that just so happens the crystal ball "broke"), let's lynch spiesr to confirm his role.

Do you see how stupid that sounds? Storr is probably already shot, I don't think I need to shoot him tonight because there was only one kill N1, if Storr got hit, it'd explain it. No one has claimed doc. So if you want Storr lynched or shot at by me, you need to get pcm to do a full blown claim and explain how the hell can mafia not succeed in a single kill without no doc or roleblocker stopping them over two nights.

Do you see what I am getting at? I do not care if you trust me MP, no one else has stepped forward to provide information that could explain N1's odd no mafia kill.

You want to know why I don't trust you? Posts like this. You twist people's words and make them sound scummy and call them stupid when all he meant was that he didn't trust Storr. It's not about confirming claims. The fact that you dismiss MP's distrust so quickly is very telling. If you were actually on our side, you would care what we thought in the face of no evidence. But you don't. You don't care what we think and that's really scary. What troubles me the most is that you disregard my concern most of all. You haven't addressed me for two posts now, when by your reckoning I should be the most trusted voice because I'm cleared by you and MP. Oh, but that's right: MP is "stupid" and his claim is questionable because his action is two shots.

Come to think of it: if this game had two scum factions, why would the cop only get two shots? That would be a vital power, and if we had mafia, cult, and a third party, we'd need more than just two investigations or else the town would be completely screwed from the get-go...

[superkeener]

Official Vote Count 4.2

Anarkistsdream (0):
jak111 (1): pancakemix
L-2 Jmac1026 (3): jak111, MudPuppy, StorrZerg
kgb007 (0):
pancakemix (1): Anarkistsdream
MudPuppy (0):
spiesr (0):
StorrZerg (2): kgb007, Jmac1026

No Lynch (0):

Not Voting (1) spiesr

With 8 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Deadline for DAY 4 is: Wednesday, May 7th, 2014, 10:00am CC Time.

[kgb007]

@Jak want to prove there are vamps in this game? quote your role PM and if you're mod killed, I guess it's true LOL.

The longer we go without any evidence of vamps/cult, the more suspicious we have to be of Jak's motives. Our chances of running into a cult go up as they recruit more. If we don't see any proof of a cult with today's lynch or tonight's scene, we have to seriously consider lynching Jak.

It's funny that in the beginning, most people accepted that there were multi non-town factions - I was skeptical at first, changed my mind once Jak claimed but I'm beginning to waiver now.

What else would you like me to answer Storr? I've been non-committal/wishy-washy/on the fence, whatever you'd like to call it for the majority of the game.

As to the lack of kills committed by mafia, it is possible that we've gotten lucky with Jak killing the mafia selected to carry out the hit?

Someone stated they hated lists but to try and appease Storr, I'll give my thoughts on the remaining players.

Nark has pretty much been given a free pass since D1 with minimal activity outside of chiming in with his opinion on who is mafia. He was on sausage with minimal evidence D2 before switching at the very end to jonty. IB had his vote on Sausage to end the day and MP and HotShot were the only ones voting against Jmac to end D2. The last bit doesn't really pertain to Nark's towniness but I just found it interesting given what we know now. I'd put Nark's chances of being scum at less than 30% but perhaps higher depending on what happens with Jak and his flip. Now Nark is at it again voting for pcm based on his posting from D2 but doesn't bother to quote any examples.

Jak is interesting given what we know (or don't know) about vamps. Maybe he is what he says he is but he's running low on credit with me the longer we go without cult proof. Perhaps he is the recruiter? I'd instantly become more suspicious of Nark if this was somehow confirmed since Jak instantly moved to clear Nark. He would in theory have some aligned interests with town by eliminating mafia since they could post a threat to him at night. He's been consistent and unwavering in his reads during the day but his choice to target virus last night was questionable. I could understand it given how quiet virus was yesterday and Jak has since acknowledged it would have been more appropriate to target jmac given how much he's pushed on jmac since the beginning of D2.

Jmac claimed yesterday as a VT, a risky claim since town wouldn't view his role as a huge loss if mislynched. I was sheeping on Jak's suspicions on the premise that he had additional info on Jmac but doesn't actually appear to. I re-read the majority of Jmac's posts from after his claim and didn't see much that raised red flags but I'd say he's still 50/50 in my book. If he flips scums, I'd be inclined to back down from my current view on Storr.

PCM has played pretty measured by my estimates save for a scuffle with Jak recently, not overreacting and jumping all over some of the misinformation. Was on the votes for RD and jonty at the end of D1 and D2 but that in of itself is not scummy. Nark thinks pcm is scummy for questioning Nark's read on Sausage during D2. I gave some input on IB being scum D2 and the very next post included a one liner from PCM absolving IB from guilt on the mislynch of RD based on IB's meta consistency. Supposed Jak also placed garlic on PCM so I find it weird there is such friction between the two. If Jak's claim of vamps is true, PCM would be a strong consideration as recruiter - think Head Vamp with GF abilities as far as garlic having no effect on cult leader. Storr was correctly suspicious of IB and PCM immediately after the mislynch of RD.

I'd like to know where you stand on PCM now Storr?

MP is one of my stronger town reads at the moment. His timely claim led to the correct lynch of Sausage yesterday. Of the two claims cop vs RB - I believed RB was more likely to be the fake claim (call it a hunch or whatever you want but mafia RB is gonna be more common that mafia cop, no?)

Side note - MP investigated PCM night one and cleared him - if the vamp scenario is not true, then I'd move away from my opinion of PCM being scum.

MP was initially suspicious on Storr (after the fake investigation) but before jumping on Jmac in the past few hours.

I'd say I'm about 60% convinced spiesr is town but would want to hear more about what virus and spiesr have discussed before solidifying any read on him.

And I think I was pretty clear on Storr, right Storr??

In summation, if we have vamps, I'm looking in PCM's direction and jmac and Storr to a lesser extent. If we don't have another faction, Jak would top my list of players to go since he's basically outted himself as invincible during the night. Nark would also merit more pressure although we'd probably get more emotion from his posts than anything else.

[jak111]

Everyone distrusts me because I can't flip some vampires, yet NO ONE is giving another explanation for the lack of mafia kills throughout the nights.

KGB, you realise that your claim for N2's results rests on the fact that SOMEONE is lying. Storr can only count for 1 night's worth of mafia kill. The other is still unexplained.

Once we find out who is lying about it, then I can probably give to you all a vampire. Right now I distrust pcm, because of his refusal to claim.

I've noted that I am not 100% sure there is a cult in the game, just the lack of kills seem to suggest so to me. I've also noted that there could be a godfather version of the vampire that is immune to my actions. It's not improbable. Even a Vampire Doc so to speak to protect his/her partner from me.

There are many possibilities for why vampires are not showing up. It could even be they appear as town on death. Not saying it's that, but I'm saying there are more than the one or two possibilities that I believe it to be.

All I can hope is that we begin nailing them off whether they're cult or whatever.

Also, if you distrust me, where are any other 3rd party claims? I am the only 3rd party and in a multi-mafia game set-up 3rd parties are almost always in them.

[kgb007]

My claim doesn't rest on someone lying, it's probable someone is lying but we could have gotten lucky by killing the would mafia member directed to carry out the kill.

Storr are you aware of whether or not you've been shot already? Sorry if you've answered this before.

[jak111]

My claim doesn't rest on someone lying, it's probable someone is lying but we could have gotten lucky by killing the would mafia member directed to carry out the kill.

Storr are you aware of whether or not you've been shot already? Sorry if you've answered this before.

I've asked the mod, if I kill them, it DOES NOT stop them from shooting.

So if your claim is true they failed to kill TWO NIGHTS. Which means someone is lying about their claim to mess up reads.

I want pcm to claim so that tomorrow there are no take backs. We have all the claims to look at the full picture.

[pancakemix]

Everyone distrusts me because I can't flip some vampires, yet NO ONE is giving another explanation for the lack of mafia kills throughout the nights.

KGB, you realise that your claim for N2's results rests on the fact that SOMEONE is lying. Storr can only count for 1 night's worth of mafia kill. The other is still unexplained.

Not necessarily. If mafia targeted HotShot N2, they could both be telling the truth.

Once we find out who is lying about it, then I can probably give to you all a vampire. Right now I distrust pcm, because of his refusal to claim.

I've noted that I am not 100% sure there is a cult in the game, just the lack of kills seem to suggest so to me. I've also noted that there could be a godfather version of the vampire that is immune to my actions. It's not improbable. Even a Vampire Doc so to speak to protect his/her partner from me.

There are many possibilities for why vampires are not showing up. It could even be they appear as town on death. Not saying it's that, but I'm saying there are more than the one or two possibilities that I believe it to be.

I have not refused to claim. I just haven't yet. By your own claim you have no reason to distrust me. Any case that has me as scum has been bending the rules. If you have to bend rules to find me as scum, you might consider looking elsewhere. This is entirely the problem with jak's claim: everything is just this web of craziness trying to explain the vampires' existence. Evidence ought to back it up. Any invoking of "this convoluted mechanic thing could be happening" doesn't work. This game is too simple for that.

But just to clear the air: I'm a VT. I know, that explains nothing, but I'm not the one who got himself tangled up in a mess counting on a PR.

Also, if you distrust me, where are any other 3rd party claims? I am the only 3rd party and in a multi-mafia game set-up 3rd parties are almost always in them.

There don't have to be. If the opening scene is to be taken as any indication of the setup (and I know the mod said the scenes are just flavor, but that one seemed like more) then there are three groups. You plus us plus mafia makes three. Seems to make a lot of sense to me.

[MudPuppy]

@MP: My issue with giving jak another day is that he's already had three and with half the game dead, there's no trace of any vampires. That, and he just shoots randomly instead of following leads, his rationale being that if we wanted jmac dead we should have lynched him. And now look what you're doing.

I hear ya... but I don't want to make the same mistake we made with Jonty. I'm hoping one more day won't hurt. I also am not sold that jmac is scum... I'm fairly lost at this point. So, I'm trying not to overthink things and go back to basics until we get some more info with a lynch and night actions. Basics of continuing to follow the RD mislynch are what bring me back to jmac. I wish I had more than that but, alas, I don't. Still, I think it's a worthwhile gamble.

[jak111]

Well that claim was a major let down XD was pretty certain you had to be a PR with all the wackiness going on.

So time to review our claims and what happened each night.

Anarkistsdream ~ VT
pancakemix ~ VT
Jmac1026 ~ VT
spiesr ~ Mason
jak111 ~ Vampire Hunter
StorrZerg ~ Bulletproof
MudPuppy ~ Seer (Cop)
kgb007 ~ Matchmaker

With two dead VT's 3 left alive still seems odd to me. Even under a setting of me being anti-town, town is underpowered. Bulletproof and 2-shot cop are really the only major power roles? With Matchmaker and Vig being more of a killer thing for town. Sure the two masons but they're basically VT's than know one another.

Really, when it comes down to it, besides the 2-shot cop, the vig was the only real constant power role you guys even had.

Now let's move to what happened each night for kill wise.

Night 1

• I shot and killed rishaed
• kgb matched IB and HotShot together
• Mafia FAILED to kill (I am assuming right now without confirmation from Storr that they shot him)

Night 2

• I shot and killed IB (which effectively killed HotShot due to kgb's claim)
• Mafia FAILED to kill again, possibility they shot at HotShot (though why not finish Storr off?)

Night 3

• I shot and killed virus
• Assuming we got all mafia (total 3)

Any other way anyone could see the night kill actions happened?

Assuming no funny stuff is happening (I am always paranoid about there being hidden mechanics). MP's claim was proven and so was Storr's and kgb's. spiesr is auto clear for original vampire (we'll go under assumption if I get the original leader we can STOP all recruiting). We're left with three people.

Anarkistsdream ~ VT
pancakemix ~ VT
Jmac1026 ~ VT (Current lynch candidate)

So if Jmac does not flip as the vampire's leader. Which of the other two claims should I shoot at for the leader (I still think the ORIGINAL vampire might have a bit of immunity to me to make it a fair fight). PCM is "cleared" due to my garlic if that is not the case. Anark is not cleared, just I assume he was not the original vampire with that strong VT thing D1.

See, now with pcm's claim on the table, I could eliminate the majority of you left from being the ORIGINAL vampire and hence up my chance of proving to you they exist by taking out the original one and hopefully stop recruitment.

[StorrZerg]

Lost it n1 ... Should explain alot.
Why i kept pushing jonty etc

[spiesr]

As to the lack of kills committed by mafia, it is possible that we've gotten lucky with Jak killing the mafia selected to carry out the hit?

No, I asked and it doesn't work that way.

Everyone distrusts me because I can't flip some vampires, yet NO ONE is giving another explanation for the lack of mafia kills throughout the nights.

You want me to pull another explanation out a my ass? Here yo go. Your kill are the scum kills. Either there are 2 competing groups (or an SK) and the other one somehow failed Night 1 (hitting BP, Mafia roleblocker, something else) or perhaps there is only one group and they have an Framer/Janitor variant that makes people they kill look like scum.
I don't know what the answer is yet, but there are other explanations than you telling the truth.

[jak111]

We need more participation from a few people.

If we're playing that game spiesr, there's many possibilities to you being anti-town as well. 1 town/anti-town mason pair is not unheard of, you could of been recruited, should I go on?

Right now I'm trying to work with the variables we have. (Also your Framer theory could work against MP, so if you're going to tunnel me make sure the theory can only include me and not other people you believe to be town). Between you and pcm I'm not sure who is tunneling my worse.

But take your pick, I narrowed down the potential original vampires. If we can't get the original vampire between today's lynch and tonight's kill you might as well kill me with my luck of 2/3 failing.

[jak111]

Also, no wonder we're always at each other's throats. Look at all who's mostly been posting.

spiesr
pcm
Storr
MP
and I.

kgb chips in about every page or two.

Jmac and Anark though are almost no where to be seen. With Jmac going to the noose, I hope Anark realises if Jmac does not flip vampire godfather/leader/etc I'm going to have to shoot him or pcm tonight. So both of them really gotta explain to me why it isn't them.

@pcm, you are the 5th VT claim, do you believe we have 5 VT's in this game? If so, who of the town PR's do you think is lying and why? If not, same for VT's and why?

Above questions go to Anark as well. Jmac can answer the questions as well, might tip the favour in someone's direction if he flips town.

[Anarkistsdream]

PCM should be shot... I think he is scum I claimed first. I have been right about my other hunches, so why would I be wrong here?

[kgb007]

kinda like your logic in other games that you've never been scum before so why start being scum now?

guessing correctly in the past has no bearing on future outcomes. but i'm just nit picking since you hardly post and then we get that gem when you do. your case work has been awful - you want to complain about voting with no effort Storr - the line starts with nark, don't care if he was correctly on sausage or if pcm flips scum, nark has added absolutely nothing to our cause since his claim

[Anarkistsdream]

kinda like your logic in other games that you've never been scum before so why start being scum now?

guessing correctly in the past has no bearing on future outcomes. but i'm just nit picking since you hardly post and then we get that gem when you do. your case work has been awful - you want to complain about voting with no effort Storr - the line starts with nark, don't care if he was correctly on sausage or if pcm flips scum, nark has added absolutely nothing to our cause since his claim

My thoughts are you and PCM are the scum... I admit, I haven't had a lot of insight this game... Not having any powers, secrets or knowledge does that... However, in a game called Town of Secrets, how many others can there be... one tops... I also see no reason to rehash arguments when I feel I have made my reads on them... Posting to post is a sign of scum, most often... And, to finish, when you and PCM both flip scum vampire whatever the hell, I will be vindicated. and, you may want to mock my meta, but it has served me well... You must also not believe in psyhic phenomenon, ufos, ghosts, gut feelings, deja vu, love at first sight and anything else that doesn't fit in yur little box...

[spiesr]

Anarkistsdream, care to explain how Mudpuppy's claimed innocent investigation and Jak's claimed garlic use on pancakemix fit into your thinking that he and kgb are scum together?

[jak111]

Anarkistsdream, care to explain how Mudpuppy's claimed innocent investigation and Jak's claimed garlic use on pancakemix fit into your thinking that he and kgb are scum together?

Leave him alone spiesr, pcm can comment as he wants and tonight I'll make the decision (which is leaning one way more than not XD)

[kgb007]

well no lynch is not an option today

unvote vote jmac bc he's the closest to being lynched, let's hope you're right jak..

[superkeener]

Official Vote Count 4.2

Anarkistsdream (0):
jak111 (1): pancakemix
L-1 Jmac1026 (4): jak111, MudPuppy, StorrZerg, kgb007
kgb007 (0):
pancakemix (1): Anarkistsdream
MudPuppy (0):
spiesr (0):
StorrZerg (1): Jmac1026

No Lynch (0):

Not Voting (1) spiesr

With 8 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Deadline for DAY 4 is: Wednesday, May 7th, 2014, 10:00am CC Time.

[Jmac1026]

What can I say? Sorry for being busy a few times and not posting much? The only reason I'm being lynched is because I've been relatively inactive and I'm "scummy." I'm going to turn up town. When I do, what will Jak's reasoning be? That I was the scummiest player at the time? No, he's the scummiest player.

He blind fires every single night. Jonty got lynched partly because he could potentially do so. He hasn't bothered consulting with town on any of his shots. I'm just requesting that you guys lynch Jak tomorrow after I turn up town. If you could agree to that, I'll hammer myself, because I doubt that anyone else is going to get lynched today and this game could stall.