Krazy Kingdoms [Quenched]

[Donelladan]

Btw, a lot of dwellers bonus do not work properly currently. FOr example I took M2 and didnt get a +1.

Now I have 2 caverns and only get a +2 instead of +1, +1 and +2 so +4

Game 14276104
2014-04-11 21:52:07 - Donelladan received 2 troops for holding Dwellers - Caverns
2014-04-11 21:52:07 - Donelladan received 1 troops for holding Dragonkin - Favored
2014-04-11 21:52:07 - Donelladan received 1 troops for holding Dragonkin - Adjacent to Favored
2014-04-11 21:52:07 - Donelladan received 2 troops for holding Basic Land
2014-04-11 21:52:07 - Donelladan received 3 troops for 9 regions
2014-04-11 21:52:08 - Donelladan deployed 9 troops on M2 - Caverns
2014-04-11 21:52:09 - Donelladan assaulted S4 - Caverns from M2 - Caverns and conquered it from

[dolomite13]

Bonuses
+1/3 (Min +3) attached to basic lands (as it should have been).
- No standard Territory Bonus back in effect.
This change should smooth out the early game just a bit so it is harder to knock someone off the map early and pretty much keep them off the map.

I don't get it. What means "No standard territory bonus back in effect", your first line "+1/3 (Min +3) attached to basic lands (as it should have been)." means that you will use the standard territory bonus.
Could you give an example with what we have now and what we would have?

Right now on the legend of the map it is written 3 red start give you a +1, so no difference between what we have now and what you describe or?

I don't want to use the standard +3 minimum attached to all territories but I want their to be a minimum you can receive to get you started ... I also don't want to attach that to kingdoms as giving kingdoms a bonus or autodeploy changes the dynamic in 1v1 games a bit too much. I am looking for something to attach the normal +3 minimum to and if I attach it to basic lands then for holding 0 - 11 basic lands you get +3 and at the 12th, 15th, 18th, 21st, 24th, 27th, 30th you get an additional +1 to a max of +7 just for expansion. Right now I believe I have that attached generically to the whole map so you get +3 then you stack +1/3 for basic lands on top. This change reduces slightly the up front amount you can get from basic lands.

Basic Lands (current)
0 +3
3 +4
6 +5
9 +6
12 +7
15 +8
18 +9

Basic Lands (proposed)
0 +3
3 +3
6 +3
9 +3
12 +4
15 +5
18 +6

Barbarians
- Horde 3n (down from 5n)
- Horde required to grant the +1 per 3 basic land added bonus
This will make it necessary to take the horde to get the added bonus and may promote use of the horde as a way to travel around the board easier. I rarely see anyone use the horde as it is currently implemented.

I don't know if reducing the horde to 3 is good or not because I did not have this special feature often so far.
But concerning the bonus, forcing to hold the horde to have the extra bonus is quite bad I think.
Other special features like cosmic, demonic and dwellers can have a +2 by taking only 3 neutrals. You'll force people with horde to take 12 neutrals ( 3 basic land + hordes) to have a +3 ( or +4) ( +1/favored territory, +1 for 3 basic land like for everyone, +1 for the horde bonus because you have 3 basic land - potentially another +1 because 2 territory adjacent to your favorite).
So I compare +2 for 3 neutrals to +4 for 12 neutrals. I am not sure if it is good idea to force people to take the horde.

Hmmm... I do want the bonuses and other special abilities to sort of balance out. We cant look at the bonus value alone. Their is an intrinsic value to having a way to jump across the map. And for barbarians this route id different based on their kingdom. I want to encourage the barbarians to spread out a bit and to use the Horde as a way to jump around the map. At +5 it seems to me as if it goes unused thus encouraging the horde player to not utilize it. I felt like lowering it to 3 would encourage it's use. I wasn't really thinking about the "mandatory" aspect as using it should be something that gets you a benefit.

I want to encourage expansion as it seems to fit "barbarians" and a horde mentality. Perhapse the horde could start at 1 and be an autodeploy 1 so that you are getting a bonus every turn once you take it then the +1 per 3 being attached to having the horde would be the flavor of having a horde and make barbarians a bit nervous in "nukes" games.

Demonic
- Underworld 3n (down from 5n)
- Basic bonus +1 per minion (removed the added +1/2)
- Underworld required for an additional +1 per minion bonus
Similar to the horde the underworld seems to be unused by players. By tying an added bonus to it, it may now start seeing play.

I always take underworld when I have it. Awesome bonus for me. If you don't remove the +1 for 2 at least.

- Underworld required for an additional +1 per minion bonus

You mean that the 1st minion i take give me +1, but for the 2nd minion to give me +1 i need underworld. Or , the 1st minion i take give me +1 only if I have the underworld?

We go from this
1 minion +1
2 minions +3
3 minions +4
4 minions +6

To this
1 minion +1
2 minions +2
3 minions +3
4 minions +4
1 minion and underworld +2
2 minions and underworld +4
3 minions and underworld +6
4 minions and underworld +8

I think that requiring the underworld at 3n and giving you a higher top end bonus would be a pretty good overall boost to demonic.

[dolomite13]

Dwellers
- change the 4 caverns +2 to "for every cavern and crypt you hold you get +1" (max +4)
Being able to jump around the map for free is powerful but spreading out around the map can also work against you. This change will now only grant you more bonus troops if you also focus on holding crypts and will put some pressure on the undead player.

I find undead player bonus to be the worse on the map, and you want to give a +1/crypt for the dwellers???
Dwellers is awesome, only player that have all his +1 bonus connected to each other directly. All this other conditional bonus ask you to have at least 2 territory to work. This one works with the 1st one. Do not give him a +1/crypt extra.

So I want their to be an added bonus for dwellers to expand. Right now its all about the caverns. I need something else to combine with it. I could use a specific basic land but that makes a player who has that basic land as a favored type much more powerful. I could just make it favored but then dwellers becomes the best in the game. I am half tempted to add a new resource type on all of the 8 territories that don't have a symbol and use that to spice up dwellers a bit.

Any thoughts are welcome.

Cosmic
- change the 2 radiation +1* to "for every mines and radiation you hold you get +1" (max +4).
Cosmic gets some nice abilities once they get to 2 territories this change will make them want to branch out a bit and make the "miners" a bit nervous.

Also very good bonus imo, why you want to give them a +1/mines.

Consider, Dwellers and Cosmic are bonus that get a +1 for their 1st regions They very often will start with a +2 once they take their favored land. And you are giving them an extra possibility to get +1, possibly by a neigboring region (P4 and T1 for cosmic/mines or M2/P3 for dwellers/mines).

I add, if we take all your previous remark, you make it more difficult for Barbarian and Demonic to get +1, and you give extra one to Cosmic and and Dwellers.
Also consider a players getting Dwellers and Miners bonus at the same times.

Btw I dislike miner as much as undead because they both need TWO regions to get a bonus and both of them give you no extra connection. So it is like hell to go fetch extra bonus.

I never use player that have Miners and Undead when I am playing team games, i also don't use those feature when I play 1vs1 games.

Maybe you have been playing more multiplayers games. But I am quite sure for 1vs1 and team games your change are giving more advantage to special fetaures that are already good.

Again, like dwellers I am scrounging for a bonus that can be added to them... I may have that solution soon.

Kingdoms
- change kingdoms to be able to reinforce to favored territories you control.
This would be one way and would not work the opposite direction.
- change kingdoms so they can not assault favored territories that border blood towers.
This would decrease the possible starting territories from 4 to 3 but also limit access to the 8 most important territories on the map.

I don't see why you consider blood towers being the most important territory on the maps. Only advantage is to give you possibility to take forbidden lands, but you don't do it unless games is already won for you anyway. Only exception is if you are playing escalating but otherwise I don't find blood towers having any interest, I'll never attack them if I don't hold the special feature wizard.

Also, if you do that you are disavantaging hugely the players with special feature wizard, he becomes only one that can't attack the regions with his special feature ability.

Hmmm that is very true I will probably reverse that decision.

[dolomite13]

- change kingdoms to be able to reinforce to favored territories you control.

Why not. But does it also means that you will be always able to attack from your kingdoms your favored territory?

I explain, right now, once I took one favored territory, I can't attack anymore from my kingdom. Making the change you suppose, since for me forting way are attacking way, if you allow one way for to favore territory, to you also allow one way attack for favored territory also after you took one?

No it would be only an initial attack and I will probably reverse this decision anyway ... I was looking for a way to allow you to reinforce from kingdoms but it is probably unnecessary.

Chasms
- removing chasms and connecting the land permanently across them for all player
because the start areas are no longer the #1 of each basic land type (S1, M1, T1 etc...) players can no longer exploit the short routs between them so the extra complication is unnecessary

I like the complication so far. I am not sure for who is good or not. I don't mind that changes, I also don't mind it say the same. Of course it is a complexity that gave me some stress during my 1st games because I didnt notice it.

I think it is an unneeded complexity and makes "adjacent to favored" confusing. It mase sense when the start territories were the 8 on the outer edge of the map but now that you can select your start it is just confusing.

Badlands
- I added two new territories near the center of the map that are killer 5.
This will take a bit of the pressure off of J3 and F3 as they are serious choke points and often stopped teammates from getting from one side of the map to the other. The high cost will dissuade early use and the fact that they are "Killer" will make them situational use only. It is possible they should only be killer 3 or 2 and this is open for discussion.

Highly probable that I would never use those killer neutral 5. Put them to 2 maximum if you want us to use them. Even 1 should be considered. You minimum lose 1 troops by taking them and they don't give you any advantage other than a new connection. I say try with 2 and consider 1 for the future.

I think that 2 is reasonable.

[Donelladan]

The changes for the basic bonus is very good. I am totally voting for it.

I want to encourage expansion as it seems to fit "barbarians" and a horde mentality. Perhapse the horde could start at 1 and be an autodeploy 1 so that you are getting a bonus every turn once you take it then the +1 per 3 being attached to having the horde would be the flavor of having a horde and make barbarians a bit nervous in "nukes" games.

Interesting idea, might be dangerously powerful for multiplayer game since nobody except barbarian player can attack the horde.
I am reconsidering anyway, horde can break anyone bonus once you have it. That still very nice.
Reducing 5 to 3 neutral should be enough to make this bonus quite good.

So I want their to be an added bonus for dwellers to expand. Right now its all about the caverns. I need something else to combine with it. I could use a specific basic land but that makes a player who has that basic land as a favored type much more powerful. I could just make it favored but then dwellers becomes the best in the game. I am half tempted to add a new resource type on all of the 8 territories that don't have a symbol and use that to spice up dwellers a bit.

Any thoughts are welcome.

I still don't get it. Why dwellers should need another bonus? ( same for cosmic ). I understand that your problem now is that dweller take one cavern, then the 3 others caverns, then they stack. But giving them another bonus to take only balance game for the fools that would fight for another bonus with someone else. As a dwellers I'll still stay on my caverns that no one else want.
If you add another bonus to dwellers then you need to reduce amount of troops they receive from the caverns, then they get incentive to attack the other one and it is more balanced.

Did you consider making another territory linked to the special feature that people could attack?
Like this : everyone start with a special feature that he can't lose. But also everyone can gain another special feature by taking some amount of neutrals. You make that someone can only get one other special feature. And special feature can only be attacked from a land with their bonus.

I am clear? So that way everyone start with one special feature he cannot lose. And everyone is able to gain another special feature, but only one. Then you give pressure to everyone, and you make multiplayer game a fucking awesome mess !!!

[Donelladan]

Game 14327067

M4 cannot attack demonic.

And this should be rephrased : 2014-04-22 11:50:04 - FlyingBob no longer holds Only Special Features
It is the contrary

[Donelladan]

Game 14327204 For a reason I ignore, yellow, with special feature cosmic and dweller, Kingdom Yeti, take only T2, and he received a +2. ( I broke it so not visible on the log but he had it according to the overview panel). It shouldn't be because T2 has no cosmic and no cavern.

[Donelladan]

2014-04-23 10:34:50 - FlyingBob received 1 troops for holding Cosmic - Radiation
2014-04-23 10:34:50 - FlyingBob received 1 troops for holding Gnomes - Favored
2014-04-23 10:34:50 - FlyingBob received 3 troops for 5 regions

Game 14331707

FlyingBob had T2 and M1 so shouldn't have the +1 for cosmic radiation.
You can check the log he never took any land with cosmic radiation.

[Donelladan]

Game 14331797

I have the horde but I can only attack M territory. Not all basic land.


EDIT : Nvm, I always misunderstood the horde. That's how it is supposed to work.

[Donelladan]

Game 14331875

Yellow has Yeti, dwellers and ementalist. I took T3 and S4.
T3 should give me +1 for favored and S4 +1 because of dwellers but.

2014-04-23 11:53:21 - Donelladan received 1 troops for holding Yeti - Favored
2014-04-23 11:53:21 - Donelladan received 3 troops for 5 regions
2014-04-23 11:53:23 - Donelladan deployed 4 troops on S4 - Caverns
2014-04-23 11:53:29 - Donelladan ended the turn

Now I have T4 and V1. So I should have +3 because T is my favored territory, T4 and V1 are elementalist bonus, and T4 has a cavern.
But I am only having +2, cavern doesn't work again.

2014-04-23 12:00:59 - Donelladan received 1 troops for holding Elementalists - 1 Tundra and 1 Volcanic
2014-04-23 12:00:59 - Donelladan received 1 troops for holding Yeti - Favored
2014-04-23 12:00:59 - Donelladan received 3 troops for 5 regions

[betiko]

My sphynx guy has dwellers, took d2 m2 and i just have +1 bonus. There s like half of the bonuses on this map that don t work.....

[dolomite13]

OK, it has been far too long.

I am looking into what happened with the past fixes I mae to the XML and working on what I hope will be a more balanced map.

So what is different with this map and why did you change it? ... well let me tell you all about it.

=D13



Badlands - I added these two territories to help aleviate the choke points across the center of the map. I think they will start with 1 neutral but have a decay of 5 which will make them useful to get around your partners in team games but probably not a great place to stack troops. May change these to Killer 1.

Land Bonuses - Changed it from +1 for every 2 adjacent to your favored territory to +1 for 3. This is a bit less but should give incentive to expand. I also changed basic land bonus to +1 per 5 from +1 per 3. Yes this is less but I also created incentive to take all 4 of your favored territory by changing that from a flat +4 to a 2x all land bonuses.

Minimum Bonus - now +3 for the map regardless of how few territories you have.

Seas - changed them to decay 2 from killer 1 to allow he aquatic player to have a territory they can hide troops on and allowed me to change their bonus.

Blood Towers - Moved all blood towers to the edges of the map away from that central corridor. This will make it harder to get enough to be able to enter the forbidden lands.

Chasms - Removed the chasms as the complex mechanic involved with them was unnecessary.

Kingdoms - You may now assault any favored territory that does not border a blood tower. And once you have control of a favored territory it is adjacent to your kingdom so you can reinforce from your kingdom to it.

Aquatic - Can now move freely between seas and adjacent to sea territories. Granted +2 per sea. This is a max of +8 however those are 4 territories that cant be attacked by anyone and can only be bombarded by forbidden lands so I think its worth making them worth less.

Barbarians - Changed it so you must hold the horde to get the barbarian bonus. May include this bonus in the 2x bonus for holding all 4 favored. Will decrease the horde to 1 neutral to start.

Cosmic - these guys got a complete revamp again. +1 per radiation, doubles when you hole "Reactor" which will start between 1 and 3 neutral not sure yet. Radiation no longer adjacent to each other but are now adjacent to reactor.

Demonic - You now need to hold the underworld to get the extra +1 per minions bonus. Will decrease the underworld to match the reactor to be fair.

Druids - bonus increased (doubled) to +2 per set ... takes it from max +8 to max +16 but that should be very hard to ever get to.

Dwellers - changed bonus to +2 each cavern instead of +1 each and +4 for all 4.

Elementalists - bonus increased (doubled) to +2 per set ... takes it from max +8 to max +16 but that should be very hard to ever get to.

Fanatics - changed the increase for favored territories to grant bonuses based on both favored and adjacent to favored. Max +8 is now max is still +8 but more spread out and I want to have the 2x bonus for 4 favored apply to it.

Miners - Max went from +8 to +12 but no easy way to get from one mine to another.

Undead - Max went from +8 to +12 but no easy way to get from one mine to another.

Wizards - Changed to +1 per territory that borders a blood tower. This is a change from +2 for 2. But the restriction on moving between these territories no longer required you to hold territories that border 2 blood towers.

[Donelladan]

First
Overall I like the changes. My main question would be, when do we get the new version !!

But some stuff to discuss still.
A small remark first

Minimum Bonus - now +3 for the map regardless of how few territories you have.

I think this is not a change or?

Overall you upped most of the power I disliked, that's why I like the change. I am just wondering for the aquatic :

Seas - changed them to decay 2 from killer 1 to allow he aquatic player to have a territory they can hide troops on and allowed me to change their bonus.

He is now the only player that has an unbreakable bonus. I don't know how this will influence the gameplay. I think this is the first map I know where a player would have a totally unbreakable bonus. Seems pretty awesome to me.

On one side I like the change, the killer neutral was annoying and made aquatic not so good. I like that you change it into a territory with decay. But I think the bonus should have remain the same : bonus for territory adjacent to aquatic and connection between the different sea.
But as I said I don't know, I'd like to try it first and then tell you if aquatic became as powerful as I fear.



Concerning the blood tower changes, I like that you put them further from the center. Very good for the gameplay.
But I am wondering why each territory that borders a blood tower has a extra bonus on them ? Because since they are not attaquable T1, it makes it way more difficult to get an extra bous to anyone at round 1. I guess it is done on purpose. I am interested.

Kingdoms - You may now assault any favored territory that does not border a blood tower. And once you have control of a favored territory it is adjacent to your kingdom so you can reinforce from your kingdom to it.

Not sure if I can see any utility to that. Only if you misdeploy on your kingdom.

Barbarians - Changed it so you must hold the horde to get the barbarian bonus. May include this bonus in the 2x bonus for holding all 4 favored. Will decrease the horde to 1 neutral to start.

Good change but honestly I am not sure people will understand this bonus from the picture. Maybe replace the " : " by a "+" ? or a "and"
same for demonic and cosmis concerning the ":" i don't find it very clear.

Cosmic - these guys got a complete revamp again. +1 per radiation, doubles when you hole "Reactor" which will start between 1 and 3 neutral not sure yet. Radiation no longer adjacent to each other but are now adjacent to reactor.

Demonic - You now need to hold the underworld to get the extra +1 per minions bonus. Will decrease the underworld to match the reactor to be fair.

Having demonic + a minion give you +2. And then Demonic are connected to each minion, each of them giving you a extra +2. ( exactly same for cosmic if I am right).

For most of the other bonus, it is also a +2 now, but the other bonus have to cross many other land to get those bonus ! While demonic and cosmic are giving you an extra connection.
So I think, demonic and cosmic should remains to a simple +1/minion(/cosmic) even if you hold the demonic(/reactor).



And again, the new version is much better, when do we get it !!!

[jltile1]

So if you dont advance from your first attack how do you get the men out I have a five stuck ?

[Gilligan]

So if you dont advance from your first attack how do you get the men out I have a five stuck ?

You don't, gotta move them all out

[dolomite13]

First
Overall I like the changes. My main question would be, when do we get the new version !!

But some stuff to discuss still.
A small remark first

Minimum Bonus - now +3 for the map regardless of how few territories you have.

I think this is not a change or?

Um well I've waffled on this quite a bit and i think its not actually a change from how it currently works but is a change from my last proposed change.

Overall you upped most of the power I disliked, that's why I like the change. I am just wondering for the aquatic :

Seas - changed them to decay 2 from killer 1 to allow he aquatic player to have a territory they can hide troops on and allowed me to change their bonus.

He is now the only player that has an unbreakable bonus. I don't know how this will influence the gameplay. I think this is the first map I know where a player would have a totally unbreakable bonus. Seems pretty awesome to me.

On one side I like the change, the killer neutral was annoying and made aquatic not so good. I like that you change it into a territory with decay. But I think the bonus should have remain the same : bonus for territory adjacent to aquatic and connection between the different sea.
But as I said I don't know, I'd like to try it first and then tell you if aquatic became as powerful as I fear.

I looked at this again and it is indeed just too strange ... I think that to make Aquatic cool I want to change it to the following.

• Seas no longer killer or decay. However their borders are impassible as before.
• Adjacent to see can bombard seas... this is a change that will help balance the next change.
• Seas are +2 each for aquatic and we will start them at 2 neutral because they can be bombarded.
• Aquatic can assault seas from their kingdom.
• Aquatic can assault adjacent to seas from seas.
• Aquatic get +2 per sea.

Overall I think this makes Aquatic more interesting and makes it able to move around the map a bit more.

Concerning the blood tower changes, I like that you put them further from the center. Very good for the gameplay.
But I am wondering why each territory that borders a blood tower has a extra bonus on them ? Because since they are not attaquable T1, it makes it way more difficult to get an extra bous to anyone at round 1. I guess it is done on purpose. I am interested.

I just felt it would be more interesting that way.

Kingdoms - You may now assault any favored territory that does not border a blood tower. And once you have control of a favored territory it is adjacent to your kingdom so you can reinforce from your kingdom to it.

Not sure if I can see any utility to that. Only if you misdeploy on your kingdom.

its for the misdeploys or card bonuses that get stuck. I even considered it on the features but decided to leave those alone.

Barbarians - Changed it so you must hold the horde to get the barbarian bonus. May include this bonus in the 2x bonus for holding all 4 favored. Will decrease the horde to 1 neutral to start.

Good change but honestly I am not sure people will understand this bonus from the picture. Maybe replace the " : " by a "+" ? or a "and"
same for demonic and cosmis concerning the ":" i don't find it very clear.

removing the colon should work. Based on how other bonuses are displayed.

Cosmic - these guys got a complete revamp again. +1 per radiation, doubles when you hole "Reactor" which will start between 1 and 3 neutral not sure yet. Radiation no longer adjacent to each other but are now adjacent to reactor.

Demonic - You now need to hold the underworld to get the extra +1 per minions bonus. Will decrease the underworld to match the reactor to be fair.

Having demonic + a minion give you +2. And then Demonic are connected to each minion, each of them giving you a extra +2. ( exactly same for cosmic if I am right).

yes

For most of the other bonus, it is also a +2 now, but the other bonus have to cross many other land to get those bonus ! While demonic and cosmic are giving you an extra connection.
So I think, demonic and cosmic should remains to a simple +1/minion(/cosmic) even if you hold the demonic(/reactor).

well the extra territory they have to take to get the +1 can be nuked out or bombarded from forbidden lands. Maybe it should be 2 neutral or even 3 again ... remember those extra territories don't grant land bonuses and and are slow in trench games but yes they are protected troops for the most part. I like the bonus that way especially with dwellers being a flat +2 and instant connections.

And again, the new version is much better, when do we get it !!!

Soon I hope... I am still rather busy with personal projects but have about 2 - 3 hours a week for CC maps now on my personal calendar.

=D13=

[dolomite13]

Some minor changes to last proposal ... they are in purple below.

=D13=



Badlands - I added these two territories to help aleviate the choke points across the center of the map. I think they will start with 1 neutral and are killer 1 which will make them useful to get around your partners in team games.

Land Bonuses - Changed it from +1 for every 2 adjacent to your favored territory to +1 for 3. This is a bit less but should give incentive to expand. I also changed basic land bonus to +1 per 5 from +1 per 3. Yes this is less but I also created incentive to take all 4 of your favored territory by changing that from a flat +4 to a 2x all land bonuses.

Minimum Bonus - now +3 for the map regardless of how few territories you have. (probably how it is on the map now but was changed in a previous possible map post)

Seas - changed them to only have impassible borders.

Blood Towers - Moved all blood towers to the edges of the map away from that central corridor. This will make it harder to get enough to be able to enter the forbidden lands.

Chasms - Removed the chasms as the complex mechanic involved with them was unnecessary.

Kingdoms - You may now assault any favored territory that does not border a blood tower. And once you have control of a favored territory it is adjacent to your kingdom so you can reinforce from your kingdom to it. Also added a icon so that aquatic can show that kingdoms can assault seas.

Aquatic - Can now assault seas from their kingdom and can assault adjacent to se from seas. Also get +2 per sea. Seas can now be bombarded by adjacent to sea territories.

Barbarians - Changed it so you must hold the horde to get the barbarian bonus. May include this bonus in the 2x bonus for holding all 4 favored. Will decrease the horde to 1 neutral to start.

Cosmic - these guys got a complete revamp again. +1 per radiation, doubles when you hole "Reactor" which will start between 1 and 3 neutral not sure yet. Radiation no longer adjacent to each other but are now adjacent to reactor.

Demonic - You now need to hold the underworld to get the extra +1 per minions bonus. Will decrease the underworld to match the reactor to be fair.

Druids - bonus increased (doubled) to +2 per set ... takes it from max +8 to max +16 but that should be very hard to ever get to.

Dwellers - changed bonus to +2 each cavern instead of +1 each and +4 for all 4.

Elementalists - bonus increased (doubled) to +2 per set ... takes it from max +8 to max +16 but that should be very hard to ever get to.

Fanatics - changed the increase for favored territories to grant bonuses based on both favored and adjacent to favored. Max +8 is now max is still +8 but more spread out and I want to have the 2x bonus for 4 favored apply to it.

Miners - Max went from +8 to +12 but no easy way to get from one mine to another.

Undead - Max went from +8 to +12 but no easy way to get from one mine to another.

Wizards - Changed to +1 per territory that borders a blood tower. This is a change from +2 for 2. But the restriction on moving between these territories no longer required you to hold territories that border 2 blood towers.


Moved a few icons to take them off of the territories that border blood towers.

This distributes the icons and keeps at least one of each type of basic land free of any icons. (2xF, 2xD, 2xJ, 2xV, 1xP, 1xM, 1xT, 1xS).

• Demonic from J1 to T3
• Demonic from D1 to M3
• Demonic from M4 to V3
• Cavern from F1 to P3
• Cavern from T4 to D3
• Cavern from S4 to F4
• Radiation from V1 to V4
• Radiation from P4 to P1
• Mine from P1 to S3
• Mine from V4 to J4

[dolomite13]

I can do a new XML sometime this week for this map if the changes seem good.

=D13=

[Donelladan]

well the extra territory they have to take to get the +1 can be nuked out or bombarded from forbidden lands. Maybe it should be 2 neutral or even 3 again ... remember those extra territories don't grant land bonuses and and are slow in trench games but yes they are protected troops for the most part. I like the bonus that way especially with dwellers being a flat +2 and instant connections.

Nuke doesnt matter, it's rare and so can be kindgom or special feature, or any other bonus.
Bombarded from forbidden land, if someone take forbidden land game is pretty much over.

Concerning trench, I consider those territory to be an advantage in trench, it gives you faster way to get more bonus than others.

I am still thinking bonus that give connections and troops should give less troops than bonus that only give troops.

[dolomite13]

I am still thinking bonus that give connections and troops should give less troops than bonus that only give troops.

I agree. I am thinking of changing cosmic and demonic for +2 per icon and nothing extra for the reactor and underworld but start them at 1 neutral.

I am also thinking bonuses that link to lands need to double when you hold all 4 favored territories.

Here is what bonuses would look like

=D13=

Aquatic: +2 per sea (Max +8) ... can assault from their kingdom to any sea and then from seas to adjacent territories.

Barbarians: +1 per 3 basic lands (max +10 or max +20 with 2x land bonus) ... favored territories and horde are adjacent

Cosmic: Radiation +2 each (max +8) ... radiation and reactor are adjacent

Demonic: Minions +2 each (max +8) ... minions and underworld are adjacent

Druids: +2 each for 2x[J] or 2x[F] or [F][J] (max +12).

Dwellers: +2 per cavern ... caverns are adjacent to each other

Elementalists: +2 each for 2x[V] or 2x[T] or [V][T] (max +12).

Fanatics: +1 per favored, +1 per 3 adjacent to favored (max +8 or +16 with 2x land bonus).

Miners: +2 per mine, +4 when holding all 4 mines (max +12).

Undead: +2 per crypts, +4 when holding all 4 crypts (max +12).

Wizards: (+1 per territory that borders a blood tower (max +8) ... territories that border blood towers are adjacent.

[plurple]

This distributes the icons and keeps at least one of each type of basic land free of any icons. (2xF, 2xD, 2xJ, 2xV, 1xP, 1xM, 1xT, 1xS).

• Demonic from J1 to T3
• Demonic from D1 to M3
• Demonic from M4 to V3
• Cavern from F1 to P3
• Cavern from T4 to D3
• Cavern from S4 to F4
• Radiation from V1 to V4
• Radiation from P4 to P1
• Mine from P1 to S3
• Mine from V4 to J4

surely for the basic lands that should be free of any icons should be the 4 special basic lands i.e. F, T, V, J and so swap one of the 2D blanks with one of the 3T icons but maybe then the icons would't be nicely distributed :shrug: only my 2cents

[dolomite13]

This distributes the icons and keeps at least one of each type of basic land free of any icons. (2xF, 2xD, 2xJ, 2xV, 1xP, 1xM, 1xT, 1xS).

• Demonic from J1 to T3
• Demonic from D1 to M3
• Demonic from M4 to V3
• Cavern from F1 to P3
• Cavern from T4 to D3
• Cavern from S4 to F4
• Radiation from V1 to V4
• Radiation from P4 to P1
• Mine from P1 to S3
• Mine from V4 to J4

surely for the basic lands that should be free of any icons should be the 4 special basic lands i.e. F, T, V, J and so swap one of the 2D blanks with one of the 3T icons but maybe then the icons would't be nicely distributed :shrug: only my 2cents

Actually based on how far apart those territories are and my feeling that is it more important to take the icons off of the territories that border the blood towers I think it is better to have the blanks as they are currently laid out.

It is good to have some territories that serve two different specials as it promotes competition over the territories.

=D13=

[Fuchsia tude]

Most of these proposed changes look pretty good, especially blood towers moved aside and weaker specials boosted.

A couple things:

I don't like how Cosmic is now identical to Demonic. Before, all of the specials were unique. What if Reactor was a killer neutral that attacked the Forbidden Lands, say? And/or if it was a killer neutral that you needed to hold before the Radioactive territories would border each other?

Mines and Radioactives are mostly close together, which reduces the usefulness of the Dweller and Cosmic travel powers. Especially M2 - F4 and S1 - P1. Maybe make M1 cave, P1 crypt, F4 radioactive? Although hmm, that doubles up on mountain caves and plains crypts... so also make P2 cave and M2 crypt?

"Seas borders" should be "Sea borders". Don't keep saying "Adjacent to a sea", just call them "Coastlines"!

Your repositioning resources has left odd gaps in the terrain; will you fill in the missing bits of the textures? This is obvious in V1, M4, F4, J1, P4...

I don't like how sometimes you duplicate an icon to represent "you need this many of this thing", and sometimes you write "3x[]" or so on. Just stick with one notation. I'd favor the duplication, because it 'reads' faster. Fanatics, Miners, and Undead have plenty of space to hold the icons horizontally, and so should Land Bonuses - you could arrange 5x[basic] olympic rings style, in alternating rows so they fit, if you need to.

[dolomite13]

Most of these proposed changes look pretty good, especially blood towers moved aside and weaker specials boosted.

A couple things:

I don't like how Cosmic is now identical to Demonic. Before, all of the specials were unique. What if Reactor was a killer neutral that attacked the Forbidden Lands, say? And/or if it was a killer neutral that you needed to hold before the Radioactive territories would border each other?

Mines and Radioactives are mostly close together, which reduces the usefulness of the Dweller and Cosmic travel powers. Especially M2 - F4 and S1 - P1. Maybe make M1 cave, P1 crypt, F4 radioactive? Although hmm, that doubles up on mountain caves and plains crypts... so also make P2 cave and M2 crypt?

"Seas borders" should be "Sea borders". Don't keep saying "Adjacent to a sea", just call them "Coastlines"!

Your repositioning resources has left odd gaps in the terrain; will you fill in the missing bits of the textures? This is obvious in V1, M4, F4, J1, P4...

I don't like how sometimes you duplicate an icon to represent "you need this many of this thing", and sometimes you write "3x[]" or so on. Just stick with one notation. I'd favor the duplication, because it 'reads' faster. Fanatics, Miners, and Undead have plenty of space to hold the icons horizontally, and so should Land Bonuses - you could arrange 5x[basic] olympic rings style, in alternating rows so they fit, if you need to.

Good stuff here ... I am reviewing the map this evening and will have an update soon.

So busy with work and my side development work that I am barely able to squeeze this in but i'm waiting on requirements so I finally have a window =)

=D13=

[dolomite13]

Ideally I want no fewer than 2 spaces between every connected territory(radiation, minions, and caverns). I also wanted the mines and crypts to have several territories that were only 1 apart. And of course I wanted icons to not appear on the same terrain type twice. So to balance things a bit I spent a few hours moving almost every icon.

Cosmic
- Made Reactor KILLER 1
- Added Reactor assults Forbidden Lands (this is still limited by the forbidden lands/blood tower limitation)

Demonic
- Underworld will start at either 2n or 3n and your kingdom can assault the underworld. This isn't all that useful but adds something different to demonic to help differentiate it from other specials.

Miners
- Mine icons are now placed in such a way that they are near the center of the map vertically. The top 2 and bottom 2 are separated by badlands but the two groups are separated by the center of the map and 3 territories. This is more difficult and costly than the undead so holding all 4 grants +5 instead of +4 as a way to balance this.

Undead
- Crypts are now organized horizontally across the center. The left 2 and right 2 are separated by a single territory with no icons but the two groups are separated by the center of the map and 2 territories.

Thoughts?

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