The Village of Secrets [GAME OVER] Werewolves Win!

[kgb007]

The point I am making is that because you are Town does not make your theories anymore valid or stronger because you have soft claimed. It just tells everyone you have potential to release information.

and jak may not get the chance to share his wealth of knowledge if he doesn't make it through the night phase...

[jak111]

Want me to make it through the night phase? Then protect me/help find the mafia.

IB, basically everyone that didn't find Anark's claim yesterday truthful is outed as a PR. Because the host made ALL VT's Villager. So basically I am hard claiming I am a PR, I'm just leaving my power up for the guesses and the fear kills.

Although, you notice since me hinting at things here and there, everyone else is being quiet, not wishing to look scummy by either pushing for information from me or risk getting caught in a lie. No one is building any big cases today, everyone is laying back hoping Jonty, Storr, IB or I to actually make a case.

I seem to be the only one who has re-read because I mention I can tell a VT 100% for sure and perhaps another VT. This goes toward IB, Jonty and spiesr more than the rest, because I know you three and you should be able to find that info REAL easy if you bothered to look at the bread crumbs. No one else seems to be able to find what I'm seeing. I'm down to 10 people for potential mafia, 9 if my other VT read is right and 8 if Jonty's claim is true.

Of those 8-10, 3-4 are anti-town, of those anti town, 2-3 are mafia. 1-2 is the other party against town.

I've given you guys plenty of info I perceive to be correct and have pushed you in the direction to find some of this info for yourselves. Whether you do so is up to you, but if you don't and aren't posting, what are you doing? Scummarining.

The other question, is why am I not hard claiming? Because I can be useful in the night by letting it go another night without doing so. Besides, the only guy on me is still under suspicion of not being a vig, but in fact a mafia. I do not know either way, but I need to hunt down for other leads instead of tunneling on one guy every single day *cough* Storr *cough*, that's typical of a newbie townie thinking he's got the big bad scum. Focusing soo hard on Jonty you might just be letting any remaining scum slip through the cracks with no pressure and little activity.

Right now I am on Jmac, I hold the right to change that in the future if someone looks more scummy, but at the current moment, he's my best lead.

[rishaed]

meh... GG. We'll still win though.

[spiesr]

Jak, you seem to be ignoring the more important piece of info that you dropped earlier.

I also have reason to believe that there were in fact 2 kill blocks (whether it be doc or roleblocker blocking the kills).

If you actually somehow know this that is way more important than your little villager observation. If this is correct than we should be able to find a killer today based off of it. So, please explain what exactly you meant by this and how you know it. If for some you don't want to reveal that then why the hell would you mention it in the first place?

[kgb007]

10 possible mafia out of the remaining 13 players? Thanks for thinning the field for us Jak. LOL

Let's cut the bullshit and get more specific here. You obviously count yourself as town so thats 1. You also stated that you believe Nark's claim as VT on page 24 so thats 2. How about you just come out say based on their D1 reaction posts to Nark's claim, you believe to also be VT? (Bc that's what you're basing it off of right?) No, you don't want to do that? Fine, I'll give it a go since I did re-read so you can stop bitching about people going back to draw their own conclusions.

The majority of the conversation regarding Nark's claim actually centered on the fact that he claimed with only 2 votes cast against him. BTW, Jak actually takes pride credit for pressuring Nark into claiming on the bottom of page 11. Congrats?

The conversation around the time of Nark's claim is also interspersed with IB pushing on to RD - pages 10-13, there isn't anything (that I can see) of people questioning Nark's VT claim

Spoiler

Hell, folks, lemme help you all out... Since most of you are being absolutely ridiculous, I will jump up and claim now... Guess what? I am a vanilla townie, and so not to quote my PM, I am a Peasant... That isn't what the title says, it mentions village... So, folks, way to out a Vanilla Townie!

You all are ludicrous... I am always aggressive, never quiet, and usually rude... Go back through mt games... Then see what I flipped when I was lynched or killed... And there is always one idiot, usually rhat I had never played with before, who was driving the case against me, and who afterward said, "It isn't MY fault... He seemed scummy." And all the people who have played with me before, several who have been in multiple games with me, will say, "That's the way he always plays..." And then the cycle repeats itself the next game... It truly is ridiculous, but that fact is also what keeps me coming back. To see when that trend will change.... and to laugh at the irony and stupidity of it all.

I'm not sure putting a second vote on you was creating all that much pressure to cause you to claim... and I still think you overreact just a bit much... but your claim is believable so I will unvote

Not sure any of the other cases are strong enough to vote on yet... but if things start stalling I would vote on jonty just to get a claim so we could move on.

Spoiler

I haven't come to any solid conclusions yet.... it's D1 and all. I am mostly townish on Anark and while I think his claim was a tad premature, there was a fairly high probability it was headed that direction anyway. My take is that Jak set out to push some buttons and Anark seems to enjoy a good fight and was happy to respond with one. I prefer not to resort to cutting him open tonight to see if he bleeds vanilla. I believe we have two factions of non-town folk in our midst and, with only 5 votes needed to hang, it likely takes only a couple of suspicious/curious townies to end up with a mislynch.

Beyond Hotshot and MP, Ris and RD also state they believe the claim so unless I'm missing something you're able to tell that either Hotshot or MP are VTs?

Jonty actually questions Nark's claim, pointing to the fact that nobody else has come forward saying peasants are VT but that makes sense since he prompty claims town vig.

You want people to jump on the Jmac case? Then give more information or else GL getting 3 more votes to push Jmac into claiming. We're stalled unless someone wants to give some actual information, which doesn't look all that likely at this point..

mod - can you prod some people? Specifically Whatsausage and whoever else you deem appropriate.

[jak111]

meh... GG. We'll still win though.

1.) You're dead, shush.
2.) No, I don't think you will.

Jak, you seem to be ignoring the more important piece of info that you dropped earlier.

I also have reason to believe that there were in fact 2 kill blocks (whether it be doc or roleblocker blocking the kills).

If you actually somehow know this that is way more important than your little villager observation. If this is correct than we should be able to find a killer today based off of it. So, please explain what exactly you meant by this and how you know it. If for some you don't want to reveal that then why the hell would you mention it in the first place?

Well I am not 100% certain I said I have reason to BELIEVE. I do not have for a fact that there were two kill blocks, someone could of no killed or I could be wrong in my theory. Either way, I am giving posts to contribute in case I DO die there is something to look back upon and see who wanted me dead.

@kgb 10 is better than 11/12 left. It's more than others are doing at the moment.

Good job and quoting to give away the VT reads publicly and not let people do their own reading or let the off chance of mafia getting it wrong. But yes, Hotshot is 100% VT and MP I am not sure about. Rishaed actually gave off more scum vibes than the others.

No, we're not stalling, you are. You're not creating any cases and you're not attempting to do so or anything. Hell, right now I've created an easy case on myself by saying what I've said today, I wont be surprised to see a few try to twist it. It's so easy scum could easily make it into an official case and try to hang me before I catch on to more reads.

Hotshot is town in my eyes, he was one of the few saying he believed the claim (with RD). The reason now is apparent. They're all the same name. So if scum try to push for either Hotshot's or Anark's head, I'll put theirs on a silver platter.

Personally, I was going to wait for Hotshot to make a hard claim if he was forced into it to back him up.

But still, major FOS on kgb, still just waiting for everyone else to do the hard and dirty work for you. Try to make a case yourself for a change and follow through with it.

[jonty125]

But to simply say he has no way of knowing anything and trying to push that angle is scummy as hell.

No, no it's not. If a player had information that only mafia/killing faction would know, surely we should investigate further, you've not refuted my point, by providing a scenario how jak can have that argument, you've just called my argument scummy and left it at that.

jak is some kind of town watcher, picked jonty to watch, and 3 different people visit jonty but no kills, from there he could assume a town doc and 2 members from different anti-town factions, thus his statement on 2 kills being stopped last night

A poor assumption really, for all jak would know there a cop, a roleblocker, and a sheep (completely made up role because I lack creativity).

I also have reason to believe that there were in fact 2 kill blocks (whether it be doc or roleblocker blocking the kills).

vote jak, there is nothing in the scene that implies this, so I cannot fathom how you can believe there were 2 kill blocks. You can't even say there were 0 kill blocks last night.

Is that really voteworthy? That's totally speculative, and as the mod pointed out totally inaccurate. It'd be better to maybe suggest WHY that's not a true statement as opposed to voting him and saying it's not. I'm less inclined to believe your claim as time goes on, but what jak is saying could directly contradict what you're saying. Now that could go either way, but I'm more interested in seeing where this discussion goes at the moment.

But how could jak know there were two kill blocks?? Without inside bad guy information. I reissue the challenge, give me a scenario where jak could tell us there were two kill blocks last night.

Well I am not 100% certain I said I have reason to BELIEVE.

You know as well as I do, that in mafia, you don't say something like that without been pretty certain.

[spiesr]

Good job and quoting to give away the VT reads publicly and not let people do their own reading or let the off chance of mafia getting it wrong.

You provided enough detail that the mafia could easily go find it themselves if they wanted to to. By not just giving the names right away all you accomplished is wasting everybody's time.

[kgb007]

Come on Jak...you can't be 100% certain Hotshot is a VT based on one post. Ris said he believed the post too! If a player with as little experience as myself could go back and read through, I'm sure it wouldn't have been difficult for scum to do the same. I'm just trying to understand your thought process.

What case would you like me to make? I've already stated I have no information on the night phase and I'm not going to BS a case made up of old posts from D1/lack of posts today.

vote jonty I never assumed a town doc and 2 others visited you with Jak watching, just presented a possible scenario of how Jak would reach the conclusion of 2 kills being blocked.

FP'd by spiesr

agreed...what did stating that you know of another VT do for us besides waste time? Yesterday, Storr wanted people to give their reads on people and reasons why. You're half assing it today. Just tell everyone who you think has a PR/scum role instead and quote the posts as evidence, that way when people continue dying, you can't hide behind these vague statements since you didn't actually name names

[MudPuppy]

Come on Jak...you can't be 100% certain Hotshot is a VT based on one post.

How 'bout a 2nd post then:

The way the town win condition is worded doesn't leave much doubt that there is at least one third party.

While not definitive proof, it would've been a gamble for scum to guess at the wording of town's win condition.
The two posts combined makes HotShot a very strong VT read.

[Iron Butterfly]

Come on Jak...you can't be 100% certain Hotshot is a VT based on one post.

How 'bout a 2nd post then:

The way the town win condition is worded doesn't leave much doubt that there is at least one third party.

While not definitive proof, it would've been a gamble for scum to guess at the wording of town's win condition.
The two posts combined makes HotShot a very strong VT read.

3. Do not quote any PM's you receive from the moderator or another player. You may say your name, role, associated abilities. This is a serious offence and could earn you a mod-kill, and/or a blacklist from future games.

One needs to be very careful depending on the mod.

[MudPuppy]

3. Do not quote any PM's you receive from the moderator or another player. You may say your name, role, associated abilities. This is a serious offence and could earn you a mod-kill, and/or a blacklist from future games.

One needs to be very careful depending on the mod.

Hmmm... I see your point. I thought it an odd post at the time, which is one reason I noted it. I guess I considered it more of a reference to the PM than a quote of the PM. However, that may be splitting hairs as it certainly goes beyond name/role/abilities limitation.

[HotShot53]

3. Do not quote any PM's you receive from the moderator or another player. You may say your name, role, associated abilities. This is a serious offence and could earn you a mod-kill, and/or a blacklist from future games.

One needs to be very careful depending on the mod.

Hmmm... I see your point. I thought it an odd post at the time, which is one reason I noted it. I guess I considered it more of a reference to the PM than a quote of the PM. However, that may be splitting hairs as it certainly goes beyond name/role/abilities limitation.

I double checked the rules before posting that, I have seen games where they say no mentioning anything about win conditions, but nothing in the rules here said I couldn't, and I wasn't quoting... so I thought it was fine. And since I didn't get modkilled for it I guess the mod accepted it too lol.

And since everyone suspects it (because I wasn't really trying to hide it), yes, I am a VT (or TV as the case may be this game lol) I was trying to get RD to post something identifiable like Nark did so we could clear her yesterday... but unfortunately for her (and us) she wouldn't. Of course this doesn't prove anything about Jak's (or whomever else)'s faction for recognizing what I was, but overall he's sounded more townie to me as I've said before.

agreed...what did stating that you know of another VT do for us besides waste time? Yesterday, Storr wanted people to give their reads on people and reasons why. You're half assing it today. Just tell everyone who you think has a PR/scum role instead and quote the posts as evidence, that way when people continue dying, you can't hide behind these vague statements since you didn't actually name names

He has quoted where jmac made a post that shows jmac's not a VT... and since right now I trust jak more than jmac, is why I voted jmac

[jak111]

Wasting your time you say? Is it wasting your time to force people to double check my theory and come to the same conclusion? Notice how kgb got the EXACT same two people I was reading? That means that more than I read them as VT's without me saying who they were.

Hotshot has many posts yesterday, not just one, anyone who actually CARES about trying to get mafia and confirm who's town would actually read. Instead, I do rereading and everyone wants MY reads on people off the bat without doing a little of their own work.

That tells me either they don't care who town is because they're scum and already know who's town or they just don't care about the game. Either one is bad. I already said, people just scummarining and skimming the game wont be let off the hook when I am in it.

Show some initiative and try at this game. Right now I only got a few town reads because of how people are playing. I got my scummarining reads than anything.

Spiesr, I also called you out on 1-2 sentence posts and you continue to make them.

[pancakemix]

I also have reason to believe that there were in fact 2 kill blocks (whether it be doc or roleblocker blocking the kills).

vote jak, there is nothing in the scene that implies this, so I cannot fathom how you can believe there were 2 kill blocks. You can't even say there were 0 kill blocks last night.

Is that really voteworthy? That's totally speculative, and as the mod pointed out totally inaccurate. It'd be better to maybe suggest WHY that's not a true statement as opposed to voting him and saying it's not. I'm less inclined to believe your claim as time goes on, but what jak is saying could directly contradict what you're saying. Now that could go either way, but I'm more interested in seeing where this discussion goes at the moment.

But how could jak know there were two kill blocks?? Without inside bad guy information. I reissue the challenge, give me a scenario where jak could tell us there were two kill blocks last night.

Oh please. Why is it that any way he could know is "bad guy" information? Fact is he has to know something else he wouldn't bring it up. That something, more likely than not, involves you. I dislike how your entire argument is predicated on jak having to be scum to know something.

Vote Jonty because you're becoming increasingly scummy.

[virus90]

ok

Lets do an alphabetical list of the people involved:

Anarkist: So far day 2 you have contributed very little, i believe him to be town, but thats also the reason why i want to see some more frim him.
Hotshot: Strong pro-town feeling particulaly like the post in the spoiler since rishaed turned out to be scum, and the same towny name thing also speaks for him ofcourse.

Spoiler

"BUT nobody as I'm a VT, and I'm not a peasant, so I guess he's truthing"

Oh boy, this is what happens when my mind runs ahead of my fingers. I meant to say, nobody else has come forward saying peasants are VT's.

I'm Town Vig.

Do you have any limits to your Vig powers? Or could kill every night if you felt like it?

In any case, unvote

vote No lynch. The reasons are simple.
1. I have reason to believe both claims, and Jonty wouldn't be claiming a town vig this early, unless its a elaborate ploy by scum.
2. The night tonight will give us a lot of information. (How many killing factions and so on).
3. I don't know why Jak wants jonty to kill tonight. He has practically no information, and its worse than a mislynch, if he shoots wrong, because we don't get any voting information from it.
4. With two factions I don't know how many mislynches are available to town before they cannot win.

Why stop here and not continue looking around while it's still day? We still have some time before the deadline.

IB: i always have a hard time reading him, not really an opinion on him yet.
Jak111: is very active, and appears to be a powerrole, as he promised more intell later i am ok with him today.
jmac: was laying low D1 and then at the end was really keen on lynching RD day 1, and also protective over jonty. If jonty at somepoint turnst out scum, i would advise looking for jmac.
besides jmac missed the remarks jak made about having a powerrole. accuses him of being third party or mafia, which i dont agree with at this point. his long reaction to jak made sense at some points, but basicly the 2 are just fighting which eachother, and i tend to take jak's side at the moment.
jonty: i still think he is town-alligned.
KGB: pretty neutral oppinion on him, agree and disagree with him/his reasoning, so that balances out.
Lootifier/Pancakemix: lootifier did not gave much information, but PCM made a nice comeback, for now i dont have scum feelings with his behaviour.
mudpuppy: build a case against him day 1, and he still is one of my stronger scum reads. in my opinion does not bring much new information to the table, and reacts with questions
Spiesr, pro town feeling
Storzerg: not his strongest game so far in my opinion. neutral read
whatsausege: he is just gone...

[Anarkistsdream]

Yes. I am sorry guys... I have been very out of touch... I am about to get a three day weekend after eleven straight days at work... I promise I will jump in and post on all the things I have seen!

[MudPuppy]

mod - can you prod some people? Specifically Whatsausage and whoever else you deem appropriate.

whatsausege: he is just gone...

+1
It's been over a week since he last posted.

[StorrZerg]

So small thought, i am liking how PCM is pushing, i've had similar thoughts and was waiting for someone else to show up. With their own reads, their own logic, and not just the mimic of "well i liked what he said".

Pretty comfortable calling, Anark, Jak, PCM. all town at this point, good starting town circle.

Regarding Virus latest post, i find it terrible.
It is a list post, list posts are easy to make up and easy to put forth, Its a very mafia thing to do. There is no depth no detail in his reads. It is just a generic 1 line or less for each person. With lack of anything to back it up.
Couple that up with his day 1 play, being ambiguous and being stubborn about pushing someone that no one else was pushing.
Virus is not interjecting himself into the town, he is staying afar, he is not adding to discussion. I still have my vote for today held, but i think he is worth looking at next...

[HotShot53]

Regarding Virus latest post, i find it terrible.
It is a list post, list posts are easy to make up and easy to put forth, Its a very mafia thing to do. There is no depth no detail in his reads. It is just a generic 1 line or less for each person. With lack of anything to back it up.
Couple that up with his day 1 play, being ambiguous and being stubborn about pushing someone that no one else was pushing.
Virus is not interjecting himself into the town, he is staying afar, he is not adding to discussion. I still have my vote for today held, but i think he is worth looking at next...

I think list posts are helpful to summarize everyone at one glance... I often make them when town, although usually a bit later in the game when there aren't as many people to list lol. I would definitely not call it a scum sign though. It would be helpful if virus posted some conclusions after his list though...

[StorrZerg]

What im saying is, if he doesn't give more input on his reads, then he is scummy...
Defending the action right now doesn't do anything, could have just agreed that he lacked content and he needed to put himself out more. Instead you defend the concept of a list. This could give a false sense of security for virus, in the sense that he could feel he doesn't need to add more.

Right now, he has listed 2 people with reads that are interesting. Jmac, and Jonty. He puts them at opposite alignments. I find that interesting, I would like Virus to explain both of these reads more.

Besides that, half of his reads are pointless and don't mean anything.

"Storzerg: not his strongest game so far in my opinion. neutral read" why? he has a base of 1 game. this read = useless
"whatsausege: he is just gone..." not a read, obvious statement means nothing
"KGB: pretty neutral oppinion on him, agree and disagree with him/his reasoning, so that balances out." no idea what he likes or dislikes so useless
"IB: i always have a hard time reading him, not really an opinion on him yet." useless

Like these comments are just clutter, they are not reads, they mean nothing. They add nothing.

[Whatsausage]

Sorry about the delay guys, I got a couple pages behind and just got time. I'll catch up and have a post shortly

[Iron Butterfly]

What im saying is, if he doesn't give more input on his reads, then he is scummy...
Defending the action right now doesn't do anything, could have just agreed that he lacked content and he needed to put himself out more. Instead you defend the concept of a list. This could give a false sense of security for virus, in the sense that he could feel he doesn't need to add more.

Right now, he has listed 2 people with reads that are interesting. Jmac, and Jonty. He puts them at opposite alignments. I find that interesting, I would like Virus to explain both of these reads more.

Besides that, half of his reads are pointless and don't mean anything.

"Storzerg: not his strongest game so far in my opinion. neutral read" why? he has a base of 1 game. this read = useless
"whatsausege: he is just gone..." not a read, obvious statement means nothing
"KGB: pretty neutral oppinion on him, agree and disagree with him/his reasoning, so that balances out." no idea what he likes or dislikes so useless
"IB: i always have a hard time reading him, not really an opinion on him yet." useless

Like these comments are just clutter, they are not reads, they mean nothing. They add nothing.

The question I would have is why would Virus even say," not his strongest game so far in my opinion".

LOL why would this not be Storzergs strongest game compared to the one other he has played in here at CC.

[Whatsausage]

Alright sorry again. I should be able to be active for a while. I feel special that you guys missed me though

My first thought: I am not as sold on the anark claim + reactions + RD flip = certain town for some people. I may be the only one; but I see hedging in anark's claim: he says he is a peasant, but maybe that might not be his name, and mentions "something about village", which is a no-brainer in a game called "village of secrets", of course us townsmembers have village mentioned. While it is possible that anark was worried about quoting the pm too closely, he is an experienced enough player to know that he isn't going to get modkilled for saying his actual role name. FOS anark Remembering that this claim came with two votes, I could see this as an early game attempt by scum to clear himself later by seeming to have knowledge of what an actual VT got in their pm. The people who reacted to his claim "in the proper way" who now seem to be certain town, could very well be his scummates. I'd like to see someone in this so-called VT group flip and see what comes up. Oh wait. Rish flipped. and he is scum. So much for the reactions clearing people of scum and PR.

This brings me to my second thought: How could we only have one death last night and have it be scum? I'm not going to pretend to know what happened last night, as it would all just be speculation. There are many possibilities though. I have a hard time believing there are three killing factions as the consensus seems to be. One possibility that hasn't been mentioned is non-killing mafia. That would allow for the other faction to have killed rish and jonty to have held his finger. Another possibility is that jonty is lying and part of rish's faction and they just didn't kill in order to protect jonty. And a third possibility is of rish targeting to kill some "mirror" type role that would have bounced his shot back at him. Or there is a bus driver. Without anyone coming forward, this is all speculation with tons of possibilities.

Which brings me to my third thought: jak says he has reason to believe there were multiple role-blocks. He has since backed off, saying he said "believe" not "know". I just wonder what this "reason" he had was. He could have just said he believed it, but he said he had reason.

On to my fourth thought: Stor. You said at the beginning of the day that you were going to pursue IB for sure, but have since decided to hone in on just jonty. I understand not wanting to abandon someone you are pretty solid on being scum, but has your desire to pursue IB changed?

FP'd by IB

[StorrZerg]

What im saying is, if he doesn't give more input on his reads, then he is scummy...
Defending the action right now doesn't do anything, could have just agreed that he lacked content and he needed to put himself out more. Instead you defend the concept of a list. This could give a false sense of security for virus, in the sense that he could feel he doesn't need to add more.

Right now, he has listed 2 people with reads that are interesting. Jmac, and Jonty. He puts them at opposite alignments. I find that interesting, I would like Virus to explain both of these reads more.

Besides that, half of his reads are pointless and don't mean anything.

"Storzerg: not his strongest game so far in my opinion. neutral read" why? he has a base of 1 game. this read = useless
"whatsausege: he is just gone..." not a read, obvious statement means nothing
"KGB: pretty neutral oppinion on him, agree and disagree with him/his reasoning, so that balances out." no idea what he likes or dislikes so useless
"IB: i always have a hard time reading him, not really an opinion on him yet." useless

Like these comments are just clutter, they are not reads, they mean nothing. They add nothing.

The question I would have is why would Virus even say," not his strongest game so far in my opinion".

LOL why would this not be Storzergs strongest game compared to the one other he has played in here at CC.

The only way to answer that, would be to talk about the game. Which we can't, so even more so the point becomes weird.