If you wanna get people into CC, let them join clans; however, the status quo clans don't want so many new recruits. Also, new players are usually pitted against advanced players, which may be discouraging. So, why not have a Newb Clan league?
We can lower the standard of intensity by having separate clans for newcomers. I remember in my early days that it was costly to join a clan because the standards were high, and I'd have to dedicate more effort into improving my play. In my opinion, most newcomers are not like that. They want an easy way in, with consistent games and consistent players--and if the competition isn't too hard, so much the better. So, why not give newcomers their own clan league?
Last edited by BigBallinStalin on Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:31 pm, edited 6 times in total.
I agree with Changsha's analysis vis-a-vis new players, and although I certainly enjoy having new or diverse options, it's true that there should be a simple basic package available, especially for newcomers but even for veterans who like basic games.
The "Join A Game" tab, by default, should not show ANY of the following games:
Assassin
Team
Polymorphic
Freestyle
Manual
Trench
Fog
Zombie or Nuclear Spoils
Unlimited Forts
Maps with one-way portals
Maps with victory conditions
What is left? The basics: straightforward maps, Auto, Sequential, Flat Rate or Escalating or No Spoils, Standard or Terminator, with most of the reinforcement options except Unlimited. That still gives plenty of variety while eliminating all the farming settings and all the maps that may be bewildering to newcomers.
The advanced settings should still be available to everyone, but one should need to click an "Advanced Options" button to find them, so he knows he is entering uncharted waters.
There have been similar proposals in the Suggestions Forum before; they just need to get some support. There's even one that's currently out there live, although it inexplicably addresses Game Finder rather than Join a Game.
The second thing that is desperately needed is a video tutorial of some kind. Eventually, the administration may come up with some, but they are very busy with so many other issues. There are obviously people in the community with talents in making mobile Gifs and stuff, so someone could take this on as a community project.
“Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.”
― Voltaire
Dukasaur wrote:
The "Join A Game" tab, by default, should not show ANY of the following games:
Manual
I agree with everything I deleted from the quote, except for this. My early days of playing Risk always involved manual deploy and when I started on CC, that's all I played. I hardly do now, but I did when I signed up because it is what I was familiar with. It's been sometime since I've played the actual board game, but I assume people still play by those rules.
Dukasaur wrote:
The "Join A Game" tab, by default, should not show ANY of the following games:
Manual
I agree with everything I deleted from the quote, except for this. My early days of playing Risk always involved manual deploy and when I started on CC, that's all I played. I hardly do now, but I did when I signed up because it is what I was familiar with. It's been sometime since I've played the actual board game, but I assume people still play by those rules.
When we played the board game we place our troops manually, that is true. However, manual deployment on the board game and manual deployment on CC are very different things. On the board, you would take turns placing one army at a time. You would see where others were placing theirs and could make adjustments accordingly. On CC, you have no idea where others are deploying when you do. So, someone who has played a map on Manual before and has experimented with trying for different bonuses has a huge advantage over someone who is looking at the map for the first (or something close to first) time and trying to guess what bonuses others might try for.
The way Manual is done on CC and the way Manual is done in the board game are just not the same thing at all.
“Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.”
― Voltaire
Dukasaur wrote:
The "Join A Game" tab, by default, should not show ANY of the following games:
Manual
I agree with everything I deleted from the quote, except for this. My early days of playing Risk always involved manual deploy and when I started on CC, that's all I played. I hardly do now, but I did when I signed up because it is what I was familiar with. It's been sometime since I've played the actual board game, but I assume people still play by those rules.
When we played the board game we place our troops manually, that is true. However, manual deployment on the board game and manual deployment on CC are very different things. On the board, you would take turns placing one army at a time. You would see where others were placing theirs and could make adjustments accordingly. On CC, you have no idea where others are deploying when you do. So, someone who has played a map on Manual before and has experimented with trying for different bonuses has a huge advantage over someone who is looking at the map for the first (or something close to first) time and trying to guess what bonuses others might try for.
The way Manual is done on CC and the way Manual is done in the board game are just not the same thing at all.
So a clan minor league? Didn't someone suggest a draft at one point?
Also, what happens to guys like me who suck after being here 25 years? Do I retire ignomiously and try to do play-by-play for a minor league affiliate?
I'm not sure that suggestion would make CC more open to new players (unless I'm completely misreading BBS's bitchy complaint).
Related... I read your suggestion a few days ago and I still don't know how I feel about it. On the one hand, I feel like limiting someone's games just because that person is new is offensive. On the other hand, it makes a shitload of sense.
I've changed the topic. I don't care for changing settings x, y, and z given conditions a, b, and c. Optional "newb view" and "awesome view" are good enough.
If you wanna get people into CC, let them join clans. The status quo clans don't want so many new recruits, and new players are usually pitted against advanced players, so... why not have a Newb Clan league?
Last edited by BigBallinStalin on Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
thegreekdog wrote:So a clan minor league? Didn't someone suggest a draft at one point?
Also, what happens to guys like me who suck after being here 25 years? Do I retire ignomiously and try to do play-by-play for a minor league affiliate?
If you want. No one's forcible exiling you to the Play Pen.
BigBallinStalin wrote:I've changed the topic. I don't care for changing settings x, y, and z given conditions a, b, and c. Optional "newb view" and "awesome view" are good enough.
If you wanna create get people into CC, let them join clans. The status quo clans don't want so many new recruits, and new players are usually pitted against advanced players, so... why not have a Newb Clan league?
Some clans would like training groups but the Clan Directors have limitations which stop the clans doing so. There is always room for clans to get started though. ATN started with no other members from other clans, and there are a few new ones about too.
BigBallinStalin wrote:I've changed the topic. I don't care for changing settings x, y, and z given conditions a, b, and c. Optional "newb view" and "awesome view" are good enough.
If you wanna create get people into CC, let them join clans. The status quo clans don't want so many new recruits, and new players are usually pitted against advanced players, so... why not have a Newb Clan league?
Some clans would like training groups but the Clan Directors have limitations which stop the clans doing so. There is always room for clans to get started though. ATN started with no other members from other clans, and there are a few new ones about too.
BigBallinStalin wrote:I've changed the topic. I don't care for changing settings x, y, and z given conditions a, b, and c. Optional "newb view" and "awesome view" are good enough.
If you wanna get people into CC, let them join clans. The status quo clans don't want so many new recruits, and new players are usually pitted against advanced players, so... why not have a Newb Clan league?
I think you're correct. Clans would keep people playing. I think we should examine why people have stayed, which would differ among people obviously (e.g. I stayed primarily because of OT). That being said, most, if not all, people are buying premium to play games so if we can get more people to play games by being in clans, they'll continue to purchase premium.
BigBallinStalin wrote:I've changed the topic. I don't care for changing settings x, y, and z given conditions a, b, and c. Optional "newb view" and "awesome view" are good enough.
If you wanna get people into CC, let them join clans. The status quo clans don't want so many new recruits, and new players are usually pitted against advanced players, so... why not have a Newb Clan league?
Clans are all about team games, and team games are in no way related to the basic game as we know it. The basic game of risk is most closely related to 5-, 6-, or 7-player Standard.
Quite honestly, if team games were all there is on CC, I would quit without hesitation. All that debating of what my move should be is a massive pain in the ass, and it totally sucks the fun out of playing.
“Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.”
― Voltaire
BigBallinStalin wrote:I've changed the topic. I don't care for changing settings x, y, and z given conditions a, b, and c. Optional "newb view" and "awesome view" are good enough.
If you wanna create get people into CC, let them join clans. The status quo clans don't want so many new recruits, and new players are usually pitted against advanced players, so... why not have a Newb Clan league?
Some clans would like training groups but the Clan Directors have limitations which stop the clans doing so. There is always room for clans to get started though. ATN started with no other members from other clans, and there are a few new ones about too.
Why?
The requirements are 50% clan members and 50% members being trained, unless you're in ACE where you can do what you like. Most of the clans that would set up a training group wouldn't be training 5+ players at a time; since you need 10 people for a usergroup, and half have to be trainees. If you're only training a couple at a time then there is no way of organising things properly and there is no dedication to your clan.
Dukasaur wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:I've changed the topic. I don't care for changing settings x, y, and z given conditions a, b, and c. Optional "newb view" and "awesome view" are good enough.
If you wanna get people into CC, let them join clans. The status quo clans don't want so many new recruits, and new players are usually pitted against advanced players, so... why not have a Newb Clan league?
Clans are all about team games, and team games are in no way related to the basic game as we know it. The basic game of risk is most closely related to 5-, 6-, or 7-player Standard.
Quite honestly, if team games were all there is on CC, I would quit without hesitation. All that debating of what my move should be is a massive pain in the ass, and it totally sucks the fun out of playing.
It depends what kind of risk you were brought up to play. When I was younger we used to play LotR which is 2v2.
BigBallinStalin wrote:I've changed the topic. I don't care for changing settings x, y, and z given conditions a, b, and c. Optional "newb view" and "awesome view" are good enough.
If you wanna get people into CC, let them join clans. The status quo clans don't want so many new recruits, and new players are usually pitted against advanced players, so... why not have a Newb Clan league?
Clans are all about team games, and team games are in no way related to the basic game as we know it. The basic game of risk is most closely related to 5-, 6-, or 7-player Standard.
Quite honestly, if team games were all there is on CC, I would quit without hesitation. All that debating of what my move should be is a massive pain in the ass, and it totally sucks the fun out of playing.
Okay, but why not implement a plan which helps people get more involved in CC?
Not every newb might be like you, and clan games for newbs reveal more information to the newcomers in an easier fashion (since they'd have more direct access to the information from the elite clans).
BigBallinStalin wrote:I've changed the topic. I don't care for changing settings x, y, and z given conditions a, b, and c. Optional "newb view" and "awesome view" are good enough.
If you wanna create get people into CC, let them join clans. The status quo clans don't want so many new recruits, and new players are usually pitted against advanced players, so... why not have a Newb Clan league?
Some clans would like training groups but the Clan Directors have limitations which stop the clans doing so. There is always room for clans to get started though. ATN started with no other members from other clans, and there are a few new ones about too.
Why?
The requirements are 50% clan members and 50% members being trained, unless you're in ACE where you can do what you like. Most of the clans that would set up a training group wouldn't be training 5+ players at a time; since you need 10 people for a usergroup, and half have to be trainees. If you're only training a couple at a time then there is no way of organising things properly and there is no dedication to your clan.
Sure, that makes sense--within the Elite Clan League. But why not change the rules only for a second clan league?
It would be a shame if the Clan Directors were accidentally preventing newcomers from becoming more interested in CC.
Vace Cooper wrote:Maybe like a sister clan?.. A new recruit clan under the close watch and moderation of an established badass clan?
Good idea
Bad idea. What's the point of creating a competitive clan to simply train a player up until they get good enough to go join the owner clan? Totally defeatist.
BigBallinStalin wrote:
iAmCaffeine wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
iAmCaffeine wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:I've changed the topic. I don't care for changing settings x, y, and z given conditions a, b, and c. Optional "newb view" and "awesome view" are good enough.
If you wanna create get people into CC, let them join clans. The status quo clans don't want so many new recruits, and new players are usually pitted against advanced players, so... why not have a Newb Clan league?
Some clans would like training groups but the Clan Directors have limitations which stop the clans doing so. There is always room for clans to get started though. ATN started with no other members from other clans, and there are a few new ones about too.
Why?
The requirements are 50% clan members and 50% members being trained, unless you're in ACE where you can do what you like. Most of the clans that would set up a training group wouldn't be training 5+ players at a time; since you need 10 people for a usergroup, and half have to be trainees. If you're only training a couple at a time then there is no way of organising things properly and there is no dedication to your clan.
Sure, that makes sense--within the Elite Clan League. But why not change the rules only for a second clan league?
It would be a shame if the Clan Directors were accidentally preventing newcomers from becoming more interested in CC.
The leagues aren't even fixed at the moment, there is major discussion ongoing to try and finally settle on how the clan league should work.
I don't think newcomers are being prevented as such, but it's very hard to trial out players without a smaller usergroup to do so. I'd love to have one with a few members from Aeternus. I've played with a ridiculous amount of people who were interested in joining a clan but keeping track of them is a pain.
Vace Cooper wrote:Maybe like a sister clan?.. A new recruit clan under the close watch and moderation of an established badass clan?
Good idea
Bad idea. What's the point of creating a competitive clan to simply train a player up until they get good enough to go join the owner clan? Totally defeatist.
Uh, so it's bad to have a clan of raw talent which gets refined into better players? Hopefully, you're being silly.
iAmCaffeine wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
iAmCaffeine wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
iAmCaffeine wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:I've changed the topic. I don't care for changing settings x, y, and z given conditions a, b, and c. Optional "newb view" and "awesome view" are good enough.
If you wanna create get people into CC, let them join clans. The status quo clans don't want so many new recruits, and new players are usually pitted against advanced players, so... why not have a Newb Clan league?
Some clans would like training groups but the Clan Directors have limitations which stop the clans doing so. There is always room for clans to get started though. ATN started with no other members from other clans, and there are a few new ones about too.
Why?
The requirements are 50% clan members and 50% members being trained, unless you're in ACE where you can do what you like. Most of the clans that would set up a training group wouldn't be training 5+ players at a time; since you need 10 people for a usergroup, and half have to be trainees. If you're only training a couple at a time then there is no way of organising things properly and there is no dedication to your clan.
Sure, that makes sense--within the Elite Clan League. But why not change the rules only for a second clan league?
It would be a shame if the Clan Directors were accidentally preventing newcomers from becoming more interested in CC.
The leagues aren't even fixed at the moment, there is major discussion ongoing to try and finally settle on how the clan league should work.
I don't think newcomers are being prevented as such, but it's very hard to trial out players without a smaller usergroup to do so. I'd love to have one with a few members from Aeternus. I've played with a ridiculous amount of people who were interested in joining a clan but keeping track of them is a pain.
Sure, thus Newb League. Let whoever wants to host those clans sort it out. Newcomers should have an explicit option toward getting more involved.
Vace Cooper wrote:Maybe like a sister clan?.. A new recruit clan under the close watch and moderation of an established badass clan?
Good idea
Bad idea. What's the point of creating a competitive clan to simply train a player up until they get good enough to go join the owner clan? Totally defeatist.
Uh, so it's bad to have a clan of raw talent which gets refined into better players? Hopefully, you're being silly.
It is a bad idea to have a clan designated solely to train players up to join a better clan.
