[Rules/MED] Cheaters should be stripped of medals [Rejected]

[MagnusGreeol]

-- Take all cheaters, Strip Then down naked,, and tar and feather Them!! When an athlete is found guilty of cheating He/She gets all medals or trophy's stripped, Because no-one can determine how long the cheating went on for, Must assume if found guilty that all past present are bogus,, Same with a drug dealer, If He's caught in his millions of dollar home / cars/ boat etc.. That it all came from drug money, and everything is stripped away, Even if He was rich before He started selling drugs and only started dealing a week ago, Everything is taken. Take this into consideration, Strip the accused and found guilty down to just Their underwear, Then release Them back into the jungle to start anew. Naked with a Swiss army knife '')

[spiesr]

-- Take all cheaters, Strip Then down naked,, and tar and feather Them!! When an athlete is found guilty of cheating He/She gets all medals or trophy's stripped, Because no-one can determine how long the cheating went on for, Must assume if found guilty that all past present are bogus,, Same with a drug dealer, If He's caught in his millions of dollar home / cars/ boat etc.. That it all came from drug money, and everything is stripped away, Even if He was rich before He started selling drugs and only started dealing a week ago, Everything is taken. Take this into consideration, Strip the accused and found guilty down to just Their underwear, Then release Them back into the jungle to start anew. Naked with a Swiss army knife '')

Your sports analogy is somewhat flawed, in that CC is a business (with viable competitors). The cheaters in this instance are still customers. As such for infraction that don't result in a ban CC would like to keep the perpetrator as a customer. Your figurative tar & feathering doesn't sound terribly conducive to that.

[IcePack]

So I think that removal of Game Achievement medals is the best compromise we can achieve, and we either submit that or we submit nothing. You all can decide.

I'd prefer nothing.

This.

[MagnusGreeol]

-- Take all cheaters, Strip Then down naked,, and tar and feather Them!! When an athlete is found guilty of cheating He/She gets all medals or trophy's stripped, Because no-one can determine how long the cheating went on for, Must assume if found guilty that all past present are bogus,, Same with a drug dealer, If He's caught in his millions of dollar home / cars/ boat etc.. That it all came from drug money, and everything is stripped away, Even if He was rich before He started selling drugs and only started dealing a week ago, Everything is taken. Take this into consideration, Strip the accused and found guilty down to just Their underwear, Then release Them back into the jungle to start anew. Naked with a Swiss army knife '')

Your sports analogy is somewhat flawed, in that CC is a business (with viable competitors). The cheaters in this instance are still customers. As such for infraction that don't result in a ban CC would like to keep the perpetrator as a customer. Your figurative tar & feathering doesn't sound terribly conducive to that.

-- I'm sorry, I believe cheaters are cheaters. In blood and mind. A cheater could very well sign up as premium, knowing He/she is a cheater. Cheaters are like cocka-roaches, they scamper around the edges and are afraid of the light that might expose them, I believe in stamping them out for the grotesqueness they are. If a premium cheater is obviously caught red handed, And You stripped him down naked to start anew, then He says "fck You CC I quit then" , Do You really think this type of person even belongs in a structured site as this. CC is military mind set, not romper room. Strip them down naked, If there is any honor at all or ability to turn a new leaf, Then let the perpetrator decide to stay or leave. If its the "business end" Your going for, I Myself will kik in an extra 5-10 US dollars a year for insurance against cocka-roaches. GL2UA '')

[Shannon Apple]

Everyone hates cheaters, but, there needs to be a way of giving people a second chance. The pitchforks are out, but you have to think of the bigger picture. Once a cheater doesn't necessarily mean, always one.

My opinion comes from the idea that say you are moderating a forum and a user is being a general all out prick to everyone. You may take the option to infract said user. He/she continues to act in a similar fashion, so you decide "okay, time this one went on vacation." They come back from vacation and they have stopped their previous behaviour. This doesn't always happen, but I have seen it happen. It's the same thing here. You can't just condemn them completely, you have to think of the possibility of them returning and behaving. Obviously, if they continue to be whatever, THEN you might punish them more harshly. I dunno. You have to have a sort of tier system for dealing with idiots. But special medals like conquerer, most improved, etc should indeed be stripped if they are achieved through cheating.

[Lindax]

Everyone hates cheaters, but, there needs to be a way of giving people a second chance. The pitchforks are out, but you have to think of the bigger picture. Once a cheater doesn't necessarily mean, always one.

My opinion comes from the idea that say you are moderating a forum and a user is being a general all out prick to everyone. You may take the option to infract said user. He/she continues to act in a similar fashion, so you decide "okay, time this one went on vacation." They come back from vacation and they have stopped their previous behaviour. This doesn't always happen, but I have seen it happen. It's the same thing here. You can't just condemn them completely, you have to think of the possibility of them returning and behaving. Obviously, if they continue to be whatever, THEN you might punish them more harshly. I dunno. You have to have a sort of tier system for dealing with idiots. But special medals like conquerer, most improved, etc should indeed be stripped if they are achieved through cheating.

I agree, except for one thing: "You have to think of the possibility of them returning and behaving."

You don't "have to". At the end of the day the burden should be on them.

Lx

[Gweeedo]

A player who is Deliberately dishonest Should be Expelled from CC (I hope that is the case).
Players who Violate a rule or caught manipulating a rule should be Branded (either temporarily or permanent).

I would (most likely) avoid entering a game with a known Cheater...like to have that option anyway.

Taking away a persons medals, would be equivalent to ejecting that player from the site.

I suggest, allow them to keep the ribbon and take away the Medallion.
Their shame will be seen by all.
Depending on the severity of the crime, you could attach the medallion back onto the ribbon after a period of time or accomplishment.

[Jdsizzleslice]

A player who is Deliberately dishonest Should be Expelled from CC (I hope that is the case).
Players who Violate a rule or caught manipulating a rule should be Branded (either temporarily or permanent).

I would (most likely) avoid entering a game with a known Cheater...like to have that option anyway.

Taking away a persons medals, would be equivalent to ejecting that player from the site.

I suggest, allow them to keep the ribbon and take away the Medallion.
Their shame will be seen by all.
Depending on the severity of the crime, you could attach the medallion back onto the ribbon after a period of time or accomplishment.

Honestly, my personal opinion is that muli's busted should have a point reset back to 1000 and all the points they gained be given back to the players who unfairly won against them.

[rhp 1]

I have a modest solution... don't worry about lame "medals"... then, whatever result comes from losing/not losing medals, will become equally unimportant...

[Gweeedo]

I have a modest solution... don't worry about lame "medals"... then, whatever result comes from losing/not losing medals, will become equally unimportant...

Medals don't account for much.

My main concern was to allow cheaters to be seen, by all.
And maybe it could appease the medal hunters as well.


I suggest, allow them to keep the ribbon and take away the Medallion.
Their shame will be seen by all.

[Neoteny]

We should burn it all to the ground.

[chapcrap]

I wonder if these should be merged here:

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 71&t=55097
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 71&t=55540

[betiko]

Wow this discussion is still in place.. Well haven t read it for a year, but I still don t understand its purpose. Basically, do we think that the current disciplinary measures against cheaters are not hard enough? Are the actual measures making cheaters recidivists?
My opinion is no to both. It feels like the mods operate on a case to case basis. Some cheats might deserve a medal stripping, some cheats might deserve a point reset, some other a perma ban, some others a simple warning.
This suggestion just seems pretty stupid and simplist. If it ain t broken don t fix it.

Example of case needing a medal stripping: doc dice. He didn t cheat, but freefalling used his account to win games and battle royales. Those battle royale medals should be stripped from doc dice, as well as all the unique kills he received with those and the points. It s not a case of cheating directly.. It s someone who cheated on his behalf without his consent.

You cannot make a general rule.. As i said many times before.. Case by case and common sense!

[chapcrap]

I don't argue with betiko about this.

[Symmetry]

Example of case needing a medal stripping: doc dice. He didn t cheat, but freefalling used his account to win games and battle royales. Those battle royale medals should be stripped from doc dice, as well as all the unique kills he received with those and the points. It s not a case of cheating directly.. It s someone who cheated on his behalf without his consent.

You cannot make a general rule.. As i said many times before.. Case by case and common sense!

Can you elaborate on this?

[betiko]

Example of case needing a medal stripping: doc dice. He didn t cheat, but freefalling used his account to win games and battle royales. Those battle royale medals should be stripped from doc dice, as well as all the unique kills he received with those and the points. It s not a case of cheating directly.. It s someone who cheated on his behalf without his consent.

You cannot make a general rule.. As i said many times before.. Case by case and common sense!

Can you elaborate on this?

I don t understand what isn t clear.
Basically player A had player B s PW. Player B was on cc break. Player A, a very solid player, went for a joy ride on player B s account without his consent. He won nothing less than 3 battle royales on his behalf, which gave him directly a silver battle royale medal completely undeserved. Battle royales also give 40-50 unique kills on the settings it s parametered on. This represents a huge pimpin of player B s account with acheivements he didn t get himself.
Player A received a 1 month ban. Player B keeps all the points, medals and unique kills. A medal stripping in this case seems like pretty fair. Put player B s account where it was before being highjacked.

[Symmetry]

Example of case needing a medal stripping: doc dice. He didn t cheat, but freefalling used his account to win games and battle royales. Those battle royale medals should be stripped from doc dice, as well as all the unique kills he received with those and the points. It s not a case of cheating directly.. It s someone who cheated on his behalf without his consent.

You cannot make a general rule.. As i said many times before.. Case by case and common sense!

Can you elaborate on this?

I don t understand what isn t clear.
Basically player A had player B s PW. Player B was on cc break. Player A, a very solid player, went for a joy ride on player B s account without his consent. He won nothing less than 3 battle royales on his behalf, which gave him directly a silver battle royale medal completely undeserved. Battle royales also give 40-50 unique kills on the settings it s parametered on. This represents a huge pimpin of player B s account with acheivements he didn t get himself.
Player A received a 1 month ban. Player B keeps all the points, medals and unique kills. A medal stripping in this case seems like pretty fair. Put player B s account where it was before being highjacked.

Wouldn't this "pimpin" be a punishable thing already? If you're asking whether the medals unfairly earned should be stripped in this case, I'd say yes.

[betiko]

And they are not doing it, which makes no sense.

[patrickaa317]

Example of case needing a medal stripping: doc dice. He didn t cheat, but freefalling used his account to win games and battle royales. Those battle royale medals should be stripped from doc dice, as well as all the unique kills he received with those and the points. It s not a case of cheating directly.. It s someone who cheated on his behalf without his consent.

You cannot make a general rule.. As i said many times before.. Case by case and common sense!

Can you elaborate on this?

I don t understand what isn t clear.
Basically player A had player B s PW. Player B was on cc break. Player A, a very solid player, went for a joy ride on player B s account without his consent. He won nothing less than 3 battle royales on his behalf, which gave him directly a silver battle royale medal completely undeserved. Battle royales also give 40-50 unique kills on the settings it s parametered on. This represents a huge pimpin of player B s account with acheivements he didn t get himself.
Player A received a 1 month ban. Player B keeps all the points, medals and unique kills. A medal stripping in this case seems like pretty fair. Put player B s account where it was before being highjacked.

Wouldn't this "pimpin" be a punishable thing already? If you're asking whether the medals unfairly earned should be stripped in this case, I'd say yes.

So you are saying only the medals/wins related to the cheating should be stripped? Who would spend time manually sorting those details out?

[iAmCaffeine]

I don't argue with betiko about this.

+1

I think medal stripping in certain circumstances should be implemented. It wouldn't be hard to quickly see if someone has been inviting new recruits to manual, nuclear, freestyle games or somebody won battle royales on someone else's account. If there aren't glaring things like that then there isn't a reason to strip medals. I can't foresee any situations where an in-depth look would be required.

Also, if Symmetry replies to this post (which he will because I've mentioned him) I will completely ignore his comments.

[BigBallinStalin]

Yeesh, let's get back to more important issues:

1. Can people be stripped of their medals without being able to get them back after 1 game?

[Symmetry]

If they've earned them fraudulently, then they should have to earn them back honestly, surely.

[BigBallinStalin]

Since there's no answer to my question, should we just archive this thread? Everything's been hammered out except for the coding, which doesn't seem to have a solution.

[Symmetry]

Since there's no answer to my question, should we just archive this thread? Everything's been hammered out except for the coding, which doesn't seem to have a solution.

I'm happy to see it archived if it can't be implemented.

[stahrgazer]

Wouldn't this "pimpin" be a punishable thing already? If you're asking whether the medals unfairly earned should be stripped in this case, I'd say yes.

In a way, cheating is like fraud. Some fines for fraud are above whatever monetary value was defrauded. In comparison, someone proven to cheat could conceivably be stripped of all medals.

Further, threat of being stripped of ALL medals might be a considerable deterrent from cheating, eh? Moreson than, "If you cheat on nukes your nuke medal will be stripped."