Adjustments to league format for CL6?

[Donelladan]

Ok well, I am also wondering why there is limitation on trench and nuke for the CL5 while there is no limitation on other settings like unlimited. All of them have should have limitations orall of them should be free. I am for all of them being without any limitations.

Plus, it has already been mentioned here, but I'll repeat, think to increase the 1 map rule to a 2 map rules at least. Right now we need to play more than 150 times at home I think, it means using more than 150 different maps, that's too much asking.

[iAmCaffeine]

Speaking from the perspective of a relatively new clan, with the majority of our members not long time players and therefore not particularly versed on such a large scale of maps, if the map rule wasn't changed to 2 or 3 uses each for the season, we would not participate.

[Keefie]

Speaking from the perspective of a relatively new clan, with the majority of our members not long time players and therefore not particularly versed on such a large scale of maps, if the map rule wasn't changed to 2 or 3 uses each for the season, we would not participate.

I think that a majority of folk would like to see the 1 map rule consigned to the bin.

Viper, as Lindax has already stated there will be a thread opened in which all of the CL's can voice their clans opinions. I'm sure that Lx will open the thread with a few ideas based upon opinions picked up from threads such as this. From that discussion the framework for CL6 will emerge. I will say though, that there have already been a number of voices clearly stating that they liked the CL5 format and don't want too many changes, so I'm sure that the discussion will be lively. I will add that there will be no repeat of last years shenanigans.

K

[ViperOverLord]

Speaking from the perspective of a relatively new clan, with the majority of our members not long time players and therefore not particularly versed on such a large scale of maps, if the map rule wasn't changed to 2 or 3 uses each for the season, we would not participate.

I think that a majority of folk would like to see the 1 map rule consigned to the bin.

Viper, as Lindax has already stated there will be a thread opened in which all of the CL's can voice their clans opinions. I'm sure that Lx will open the thread with a few ideas based upon opinions picked up from threads such as this. From that discussion the framework for CL6 will emerge. I will say though, that there have already been a number of voices clearly stating that they liked the CL5 format and don't want too many changes, so I'm sure that the discussion will be lively. I will add that there will be no repeat of last years shenanigans.

K

Yes, you learned that instead of following the input of the larger clan community (and having to retract votes). It's better to bypass the larger community altogether and do what you want without our static. That was the point of Lindax's 'don't talk about big changes that won't happen' message.

[Keefie]

Speaking from the perspective of a relatively new clan, with the majority of our members not long time players and therefore not particularly versed on such a large scale of maps, if the map rule wasn't changed to 2 or 3 uses each for the season, we would not participate.

I think that a majority of folk would like to see the 1 map rule consigned to the bin.

Viper, as Lindax has already stated there will be a thread opened in which all of the CL's can voice their clans opinions. I'm sure that Lx will open the thread with a few ideas based upon opinions picked up from threads such as this. From that discussion the framework for CL6 will emerge. I will say though, that there have already been a number of voices clearly stating that they liked the CL5 format and don't want too many changes, so I'm sure that the discussion will be lively. I will add that there will be no repeat of last years shenanigans.

K

Yes, you learned that instead of following the input of the larger clan community (and having to retract votes). It's better to bypass the larger community altogether and do what you want without our static. That was the point of Lindax's 'don't talk about big changes that won't happen' message.

Viper,

You do have a horrible habit of reading meanings into things that are just not there.

I'll make it very very clear to you mate. When I say that there will be no repeat of last years shenanigans I mean the following. There will be an open discussion in CD & Friends with all of the clan leaders. We will listen to everyone's ideas and try and reach a consensus on all ideas. If that can't be reached then I'm sure some items will go to a vote. I for one want the views of the majority listened too and implemented where possible.

K

[Lindax]

Speaking from the perspective of a relatively new clan, with the majority of our members not long time players and therefore not particularly versed on such a large scale of maps, if the map rule wasn't changed to 2 or 3 uses each for the season, we would not participate.

I think that a majority of folk would like to see the 1 map rule consigned to the bin.

Viper, as Lindax has already stated there will be a thread opened in which all of the CL's can voice their clans opinions. I'm sure that Lx will open the thread with a few ideas based upon opinions picked up from threads such as this. From that discussion the framework for CL6 will emerge. I will say though, that there have already been a number of voices clearly stating that they liked the CL5 format and don't want too many changes, so I'm sure that the discussion will be lively. I will add that there will be no repeat of last years shenanigans.

K

Yes, you learned that instead of following the input of the larger clan community (and having to retract votes). It's better to bypass the larger community altogether and do what you want without our static. That was the point of Lindax's 'don't talk about big changes that won't happen' message.

Viper,

You do have a horrible habit of reading meanings into things that are just not there.

I'll make it very very clear to you mate. When I say that there will be no repeat of last years shenanigans I mean the following. There will be an open discussion in CD & Friends with all of the clan leaders. We will listen to everyone's ideas and try and reach a consensus on all ideas. If that can't be reached then I'm sure some items will go to a vote. I for one want the views of the majority listened too and implemented where possible.

K

Amen.

Lx

[Vid_FISO]

There will be an open discussion in CD & Friends with all of the clan leaders. We will listen to everyone's ideas and try and reach a consensus on all ideas. If that can't be reached then I'm sure some items will go to a vote. I for one want the views of the majority listened too and implemented where possible.

K

'tis a pity then that as the most vocal of our clan on this topic I'm not in CD&F

[ViperOverLord]

Speaking from the perspective of a relatively new clan, with the majority of our members not long time players and therefore not particularly versed on such a large scale of maps, if the map rule wasn't changed to 2 or 3 uses each for the season, we would not participate.

I think that a majority of folk would like to see the 1 map rule consigned to the bin.

Viper, as Lindax has already stated there will be a thread opened in which all of the CL's can voice their clans opinions. I'm sure that Lx will open the thread with a few ideas based upon opinions picked up from threads such as this. From that discussion the framework for CL6 will emerge. I will say though, that there have already been a number of voices clearly stating that they liked the CL5 format and don't want too many changes, so I'm sure that the discussion will be lively. I will add that there will be no repeat of last years shenanigans.

K

Yes, you learned that instead of following the input of the larger clan community (and having to retract votes). It's better to bypass the larger community altogether and do what you want without our static. That was the point of Lindax's 'don't talk about big changes that won't happen' message.

Viper,

You do have a horrible habit of reading meanings into things that are just not there.

I'll make it very very clear to you mate. When I say that there will be no repeat of last years shenanigans I mean the following. There will be an open discussion in CD & Friends with all of the clan leaders. We will listen to everyone's ideas and try and reach a consensus on all ideas. If that can't be reached then I'm sure some items will go to a vote. I for one want the views of the majority listened too and implemented where possible.

K

Amen.

Lx

You can say amen all you want. But you're the one who came here and announced that you would be running the CL6 and proclaimed that there would be 'no big changes.' Keefie is now potentially presenting a different reality.

[IcePack]

CL6: The Twilight Zone

[Keefie]

There will be an open discussion in CD & Friends with all of the clan leaders. We will listen to everyone's ideas and try and reach a consensus on all ideas. If that can't be reached then I'm sure some items will go to a vote. I for one want the views of the majority listened too and implemented where possible.

K

'tis a pity then that as the most vocal of our clan on this topic I'm not in CD&F

Why not ?????

[chemefreak]

Speaking from the perspective of a relatively new clan, with the majority of our members not long time players and therefore not particularly versed on such a large scale of maps, if the map rule wasn't changed to 2 or 3 uses each for the season, we would not participate.

Yes you would. What else would you do while the 40+ clans were playing in it?

Your argument can go either way. There are just as many "simple" maps as there are complicated ones. However, if you increase the number of times a map can be used it increases the number of difficult maps that the "elite" can use against us regular guys. That being said, I am for an increase to using a map 2 times. That should ease this a bit and keep KoRT from using Hive, no spoils, adjacent, foggy four times per frame!

[Foxglove]

Speaking from the perspective of a relatively new clan, with the majority of our members not long time players and therefore not particularly versed on such a large scale of maps, if the map rule wasn't changed to 2 or 3 uses each for the season, we would not participate.

Yes you would. What else would you do while the 40+ clans were playing in it?

Your argument can go either way. There are just as many "simple" maps as there are complicated ones. However, if you increase the number of times a map can be used it increases the number of difficult maps that the "elite" can use against us regular guys. That being said, I am for an increase to using a map 2 times. That should ease this a bit and keep KoRT from using Hive, no spoils, adjacent, foggy four times per frame!

Oh please!

We never play Hive with adjacent spoils.

I like a 2 time map limitation, not 1.

I think both options favor more experienced clans, obviously. If a map can only be used once, then sure clans can only use the most complicated maps once per phase, but it also means that all players probably have to play on maps they're aren't as familiar with. And that puts the more experienced clans in a better position again, because their players are probably more comfortable with new maps anyway, and more likely to have played a bigger variety of maps (even the simple ones!).

So the question is more: do the less experienced clans prefer to be able to use their own stronger maps more often, or do they prefer to count on seeing fewer complex maps when they play high ranked opponents?

I don't think I've seen a lot of support for the 1 time map rule, but maybe opinions are different in the CD&F forum.

[Crazyirishman]

I agree with foxglove here. The systems both favor the more experience clans.

I'd at most (*Crazyirishman's person opinion*), many clans would say they have 50 maps they feel confident in and have a distinct competitive advantage. After the tipping point it tail off towards three different types of maps from what I've seen thus far: the ones that are gimicky and you hope your opponent has no clue how to play for a quick win; the ones that the clan knows well, but it's likely others do as well; and the standard type maps in which you rely more on communicating and making well thought out drops and fortifications.

The system as constructed does help those who have more map experience, since your 80th best home map is probably as good as mine. At that point it may be just as advantageous to choose a random map in hopes for it being something that gives you the upper-hand from the start. the 1 map rule puts a larger strain on those who choose maps for the clan to play since so many first and second choices are gone.

I'm not sure if I'd go all the way to you can use every map 2 times per stage, but at least cap it off at 20-25 maps that could be re-used would definitely help the process run more smoothly.

[iAmCaffeine]

Speaking from the perspective of a relatively new clan, with the majority of our members not long time players and therefore not particularly versed on such a large scale of maps, if the map rule wasn't changed to 2 or 3 uses each for the season, we would not participate.

Yes you would. What else would you do while the 40+ clans were playing in it?

Your argument can go either way. There are just as many "simple" maps as there are complicated ones. However, if you increase the number of times a map can be used it increases the number of difficult maps that the "elite" can use against us regular guys. That being said, I am for an increase to using a map 2 times. That should ease this a bit and keep KoRT from using Hive, no spoils, adjacent, foggy four times per frame!

No, we would not. There are other competitions we would participate in and several clans would be willing to play a war whilst being in CL6.

We don't play many "simple" maps, but thank you for assuming that because we're a new clan we play "simple maps".

I'd be happy with limit of two for each map. Whatever happens the experienced clans are going to be favoured, but that's how it should work.

[Vid_FISO]

There will be an open discussion in CD & Friends with all of the clan leaders. We will listen to everyone's ideas and try and reach a consensus on all ideas. If that can't be reached then I'm sure some items will go to a vote. I for one want the views of the majority listened too and implemented where possible.

K

'tis a pity then that as the most vocal of our clan on this topic I'm not in CD&F

Why not ?????

Various clan members have different responsibilities, it was decided for a number of reasons that crispybits would be our CD&F representative, at this moment in time I have more to say on this topic but when other things come up I'll have little/ nothing to say whilst others may have strong opinions that they wish to push.

[Vid_FISO]

Speaking from the perspective of a relatively new clan, with the majority of our members not long time players and therefore not particularly versed on such a large scale of maps, if the map rule wasn't changed to 2 or 3 uses each for the season, we would not participate.

Yes you would. What else would you do while the 40+ clans were playing in it?

Your argument can go either way. There are just as many "simple" maps as there are complicated ones. However, if you increase the number of times a map can be used it increases the number of difficult maps that the "elite" can use against us regular guys. That being said, I am for an increase to using a map 2 times. That should ease this a bit and keep KoRT from using Hive, no spoils, adjacent, foggy four times per frame!

No, we would not. There are other competitions we would participate in and several clans would be willing to play a war whilst being in CL6.

We don't play many "simple" maps, but thank you for assuming that because we're a new clan we play "simple maps".

I'd be happy with limit of two for each map. Whatever happens the experienced clans are going to be favoured, but that's how it should work.

I'll keep banging on with the same outlook, given the opportunity to play "best" maps and line-ups against each and every opponent is the only way this comp has any integrity. So what if Clan X are so good that they will win every time? So what if Clan Y run into better players on their favoured maps and lose frequently simply because they're not good enough? I didn't enjoy playing quad nukes with our lowest ranks on the smallest maps against the strongest opposition, but in doing so it shows just how shit the concept of CL5 was for those with weaker/ less experienced players. I was against our entry and the way this discussion is going will be against our entry to CL6, but even if the majority decide to enter then one of them will need to run it, I see nothing in it at all for the smaller/ weaker/ inexperienced clans.

If you want to beat us then you should be made to work for it on the maps and with the settings that we're most comfortable with, if you do it then, yes, you prove that you're better than us, but if you don't? Well you've still got your home maps

[Lindax]

Speaking from the perspective of a relatively new clan, with the majority of our members not long time players and therefore not particularly versed on such a large scale of maps, if the map rule wasn't changed to 2 or 3 uses each for the season, we would not participate.

I think that a majority of folk would like to see the 1 map rule consigned to the bin.

Viper, as Lindax has already stated there will be a thread opened in which all of the CL's can voice their clans opinions. I'm sure that Lx will open the thread with a few ideas based upon opinions picked up from threads such as this. From that discussion the framework for CL6 will emerge. I will say though, that there have already been a number of voices clearly stating that they liked the CL5 format and don't want too many changes, so I'm sure that the discussion will be lively. I will add that there will be no repeat of last years shenanigans.

K

Yes, you learned that instead of following the input of the larger clan community (and having to retract votes). It's better to bypass the larger community altogether and do what you want without our static. That was the point of Lindax's 'don't talk about big changes that won't happen' message.

Viper,

You do have a horrible habit of reading meanings into things that are just not there.

I'll make it very very clear to you mate. When I say that there will be no repeat of last years shenanigans I mean the following. There will be an open discussion in CD & Friends with all of the clan leaders. We will listen to everyone's ideas and try and reach a consensus on all ideas. If that can't be reached then I'm sure some items will go to a vote. I for one want the views of the majority listened too and implemented where possible.

K

Amen.

Lx

You can say amen all you want. But you're the one who came here and announced that you would be running the CL6 and proclaimed that there would be 'no big changes.' Keefie is now potentially presenting a different reality.

You can twist things and put words in my mouth all you want.

I announced that I will be running the CL6, indeed. That doesn't mean or even imply that I will be deciding how the format is going to be.

I never proclaimed that proclaimed that there would be no big changes. I said: "Basically the idea is not to make big changes, rather some adjustments." I'll translate it for you: "We will not try to re-invent the wheel."

I also posted this in response to a reaction to my post: " Everything depends on your definition of "big change".

Lx

PS: I already posted something similar to Keefie's post. Maybe you should go back and read (and read things properly, without assuming, looking for hidden meaning and twisting words).

[Keefie]

^^^^^ +1 ^^^^^

[Kaiser_Tottenham]

would like to know when the structure to be announced? and when we can confirm joining it? and when it's going to be started? because I would like to know if i should arrange clan wars in Jan. 2014 or not!

[Qwert]

Donelladan on Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:20 pm
Ok well, I am also wondering why there is limitation on trench and nuke for the CL5 while there is no limitation on other settings like unlimited. All of them have should have limitations orall of them should be free. I am for all of them being without any limitations.

Plus, it has already been mentioned here, but I'll repeat, think to increase the 1 map rule to a 2 map rules at least. Right now we need to play more than 150 times at home I think, it means using more than 150 different maps, that's too much asking.

Well i must say that you are not correct, first Trench was new spoils when CL5 are starting, and still not familiar with all Clans, so decision are made that trench will not be in CL5(for Cl6 i don't know what decision will be), nuke had limitation on 3 games per home set, so i expect that for CL5 will be without limitations( its mine think)

For maps,you again are not correct,,,in Cl5 one maps can be used 1 per stage (for first stage clans use 40 diferent maps and for Second stage maximum 80 diferent maps) so all in all , its used 80 diferent maps for entire competition out of 230 maps.

I dont know what will be for CL6, but if format stay same, then Qualification round need to stay on 1 map,, and maybe League stage could increase on 2 maps.

by iAmCaffeine on Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:28 pm
Speaking from the perspective of a relatively new clan, with the majority of our members not long time players and therefore not particularly versed on such a large scale of maps, if the map rule wasn't changed to 2 or 3 uses each for the season, we would not participate.

Its all on C&F forum to decide, but mine oppinion its that CL need to have some lvl of dificulty, at least for Premier League who need to have 1 map rule, after all this its Elite League, and Top clans need to have some chalenge.
For all leagues below Premier 2 map rule are good .

[Keefie]

would like to know when the structure to be announced? and when we can confirm joining it? and when it's going to be started? because I would like to know if i should arrange clan wars in Jan. 2014 or not!

Go ahead mate. I doubt CL6 wont be starting until around March / April time.

[Dualta]

* Have relegation league(s) that allow teams' the opportunity to get back into premier league for the following season.

Absolutely. CC needs this. Having promotion and relegation would increase participation in terms of competitiveness. Currently, within each league table, clans can find themselves in the lower 3/4 of a table with not a lot to fight for except bragging rights, as a few clans battle it out for the top spot. If we were to have promotion and relegation for the top/bottom 3-4 clans, there would be almighty scraps to stay away from the drop zone to a lower league or join the victorious group heading north to lock horns with those in the higher league table the following year. More clans would be pulled into the vitality of the competition. Introducing such penalties and incentives would enrich the competitive nature of the league no end. Add to that some prizes from the admins, which could even include discount membership for a year for each tables' top teams, for example, and we could have a truly awesome league competition. Surely that's what we should be doing, eh? Finding ways to increase the competitive nature of the game?

Just think about how it would affect CC in the long term if these changes were allowing to take effect. There would be no more need to guess to rank teams after the establishment of the first tables. After that, the results of the competition would rank clans naturally. It would and should be the premier competition for every clan each year.

[Vid_FISO]

* Have relegation league(s) that allow teams' the opportunity to get back into premier league for the following season.

Absolutely. CC needs this. Having promotion and relegation would increase participation in terms of competitiveness. Currently, within each league table, clans can find themselves in the lower 3/4 of a table with not a lot to fight for except bragging rights, as a few clans battle it out for the top spot. If we were to have promotion and relegation for the top/bottom 3-4 clans, there would be almighty scraps to stay away from the drop zone to a lower league or join the victorious group heading north to lock horns with those in the higher league table the following year. More clans would be pulled into the vitality of the competition. Introducing such penalties and incentives would enrich the competitive nature of the league no end. Add to that some prizes from the admins, which could even include discount membership for a year for each tables' top teams, for example, and we could have a truly awesome league competition. Surely that's what we should be doing, eh? Finding ways to increase the competitive nature of the game?

Just think about how it would affect CC in the long term if these changes were allowing to take effect. There would be no more need to guess to rank teams after the establishment of the first tables. After that, the results of the competition would rank clans naturally. It would and should be the premier competition for every clan each year.

I'll need some convincing on this, the title will invariably be between 2/3/4 clans, half a dozen clans will never challenge at the top but will be too strong to be relegated, the bulk of the clans that get promoted/ relegated will be the ones likely to be in the relegation/ promotion battles in the following year. The majority of clans in div 2 will spend eternity between being not quite in the promotion race and dead last.

The very top clans have something to play for, the middle clans have an annual promotion/ relegation to play for, at least 50% of clans (barring major personnel changes) are there simply to make up the numbers for the benefit of others.

[Dualta]

* Have relegation league(s) that allow teams' the opportunity to get back into premier league for the following season.

Absolutely. CC needs this. Having promotion and relegation would increase participation in terms of competitiveness. Currently, within each league table, clans can find themselves in the lower 3/4 of a table with not a lot to fight for except bragging rights, as a few clans battle it out for the top spot. If we were to have promotion and relegation for the top/bottom 3-4 clans, there would be almighty scraps to stay away from the drop zone to a lower league or join the victorious group heading north to lock horns with those in the higher league table the following year. More clans would be pulled into the vitality of the competition. Introducing such penalties and incentives would enrich the competitive nature of the league no end. Add to that some prizes from the admins, which could even include discount membership for a year for each tables' top teams, for example, and we could have a truly awesome league competition. Surely that's what we should be doing, eh? Finding ways to increase the competitive nature of the game?

Just think about how it would affect CC in the long term if these changes were allowing to take effect. There would be no more need to guess to rank teams after the establishment of the first tables. After that, the results of the competition would rank clans naturally. It would and should be the premier competition for every clan each year.

I'll need some convincing on this, the title will invariably be between 2/3/4 clans, half a dozen clans will never challenge at the top but will be too strong to be relegated, the bulk of the clans that get promoted/ relegated will be the ones likely to be in the relegation/ promotion battles in the following year. The majority of clans in div 2 will spend eternity between being not quite in the promotion race and dead last.

The very top clans have something to play for, the middle clans have an annual promotion/ relegation to play for, at least 50% of clans (barring major personnel changes) are there simply to make up the numbers for the benefit of others.

Well, at the moment, what have 90% plus of the clans got to play for? As I said above, this would create several sub-competitions within the league, giving lots more people something to strive for. There would be sub-competitions at the top and bottom of each table, but those in the middle of each table could be fighting to avoid falling into the drop zone and/or striving to get into the promotion zone. It's a vast improvement on what's happening now where most people are, as you say, there to make up the numbers for the benefit of others.

[Qwert]

any news about adjustment,,, its February start, so this need to be work on all this, so that league start on time.