Re: Neighborhood Mafia (4/7) Game Over: Town Win!

[epic pie]

Virus, your reply doesn't answer my question...I don't argue that we need to lynch, but I am confused as to how it is "obvious" that a quick-lynch is good for the town.

[Iron Butterfly]

A quick lynch? You mean a day one lynch?

Has someone forgotten the elephant in the room? tambourine asked the role blocker to step out and claim. There are only two scenarios where there is a roleblocker.

If you were mafia and you heard Town say that what would that tell you? mtamburin has now put a bullseye on his back because I doubt a VT would do that.

So lets stop acting like info is not out there.

Unless someone corrects me we are in scenario one.

[virus90]

VOTE COUNT

JamesKer1 - (1) - The Weird One
epic pie - (1) - gregwolf121
Iron Butterfly - (1) - virus90
The Weird One - (1) - JamesKer1
No Lynch - (1) - mtamburini

Not Voting: Iron Butterfly, Epic pie

With 7 alive it takes 5 to lynch

rereading the conversation the answer has been right in front of me all the time:

With 7 alive it takes 5 to lynch

[virus90]

okay done some rereading and found some interesting things in my opinion, which makes me want to make a case so here we go. Let the shit hit the fan. Get ready to rumble.

Unvote Vote Gregwolf121

Why? these are my points:

1. from the beginning against a no lynch, and besides that takes every oppurtunity to say it again. i am not even gonna quote that since that would make the post endlesly long, see for yourself rereading.

point 2. which is much stronger.

Greg is as i understand it an experienced player. yet he claims to have made the honest mistake of believing the roleblocker is a towny. Pretty dumb for an experienced player right?
he claimed this sunday 3-11 or 11-3 for the americans

that makes a lot of sense, i was thinking that the roleblocker was town,

BUT on thursday 31 okt. He showed us is calculation and reasoning. which never assumed that there was a possibility that there was 1 mafia. so he knew there were always 2. but 3 days later he claims he thought there were scenarios which include only 1 mafia. besides that he is one of the last to join the "i didn't know" camp.

well i willunvote, and vote no lynch for those of you who will question this decision its for the reasons i provided in my last post, mainly that we are basically just sitting here waiting for someone to do something, which is pointless, and if this limited activity goes on for too long people will lose interest and the game will die. so since were are just sitting here, and i for one haven't spotted any scum tells that i wish to pursue, meaning that i have a few gut feelings but no case. i say we end the day and hopefully we have some town power roles that will get some info for us tonight.

Vote gregwold

And your last case completely overlooked the case against a no lynch.

With out knowing the format you play right into the hands of mafia. If this is a 2 goon 5 VT game there will be no night actions and we will be right where we left off. These types of games are short and sweet. Mafia is not going tobe waving any big flags that say "look at me"

Town can only win if they lynch.

Town can only know what format we are in when someone dies and they flip Town or Mafia.

Even if we are in a format where Town has a role blocker or doc the doc will only help if they can guess who is being killed. The role blocker not only has to guess who is mafia they have to guess which will make a kill, so the role will be blind luck.

You are no noob to mafia Greg and in a game this small a no lynch benifits mafia because they wont get targeted and a lynch will benifit Town because we may hit mafia.

you know this is basically the argument that i thought you would raise, so there are five possible set ups, the worse one is that it is 2 goons and 5 vts, so we have a 20% chance of this being the format,
no i don't know what the format is but there is a 80% chance that there is a town power that can work at night,
they problem i have with lynching right now is that we have no suspects, yeah there are some that aren't posting but thats always been a weak case, i think thats the only kind of case that could reasonably be acted on, yes i know you have your vote on my because i dared to suggest a no lynch to move the day along rather than sit and do nothing,
generally i would agree with you that lynching is good, but in this case where we have nothing it would help mafia more than town, why, because it is highly doubtful that the person we lynch will flip mafia so all we would have done is lynch a townie, and with the mafia's night kill thats two dead townies, and assuming that their are two goons the town would then be one miss lynch away from mafia winning, i'll do the math so all can follow my line of thinking
we lynch day 1-if they flip town, (there is a highly probability that this will happen)
then it would be 6/7 the mafia has there night kill and we start day two
5/7, assuming there are two goons that would leave 3 town members and 2 goons, a no lynch here would mean town loses, and if we lynch the wrong person again town loses

in other words if we can't afford to lynch a townie on day one and i'll say again we have no leads on mafia at this moment, so unless someone has a good solid case they would like to share with the rest of us ill stick with no lynch, because in fact it does help the town more than a mislynch would

the difference were having right now is that you would rather put your trust in the off-chance that we would be lucky enough to lynch mafia today, and i'm putting my trust in that we have town power roles to help us out.

[mtamburini]

Unvote vote gregwolf121

excellent scum hunting there virus

[epic pie]

IB, my wording and terminology was unclear. I meant a lynch that happens faster then it needs to. We still have 2 days left, right?

Vote: mtamburini He is still voting for a no-lynch, and is withholding the data he promised.

[epic pie]

Fail. I didn't see that post you just put there mtam.

[Iron Butterfly]

IB, my wording and terminology was unclear. I meant a lynch that happens faster then it needs to. We still have 2 days left, right?

Vote: mtamburini He is still voting for a no-lynch, and is withholding the data he promised.

yup.

I have had my vote on Gregwolf for awhile. He would be a good day one lynch. he is an experienced player and knows a no lynch in such a small game would only help Mafia. First he wants to lynch the inactive even though he really did not, then he wants a no lynch. He ignores my argument and proceeds to still want a no lynch. He stays cool as a cucumber and does not acknowledge my vote on him. He then becomes a math major after you break it down.

He is a good day one lynch.

[gregwolf121]

i'm guessing that puts me at L2 right, well before i claim, yes i will claim in this post because i'd rather not die, but i'm pretty sure if you don't lynch me today i'll just die tonight, yes i am for a no lynch why, because with 2 mafia and 5 town, if we mislynch today, plus we have the mafia's night kill that puts us at 2 mafia and 3 town, and then its LYLO, and we may or may not have anything to go off of, plus i'm pretty sure that if we had waited we would have gotten something out of the night,
as for point too, yes i assumed the roleblocker was town, why, because usually mafia roleblocker says mafia roleblocker, no i didn't bring up any cases of there being one mafia because it made my arguement for a no lynch sound better, much for the same reason IB only used the 5vt and 2 goon arguement when he was advocating for a lynch, the fact that i didn't bring it up was also due to me planning for the worst, and i thought that there were two mafia,
and yes IB i ignored your vote on me because i didn't see any point in it, to me it was a case of my word vs your word, i was saying lets go with a no lynch, and you voted me because you wanted to lynch someone, and i had voted a no lynch, from what i read in your post you never said this makes you scum, so what defence could i have offered? the only thing i could have done was unvote, but i still believed that a no lynch would have been better, and that in this case it would have helped the town more than a lynch would have
why because we have a 2/7 chance of lynching a mafia member today, and as i have said many times, that if we mislynch today it would lead to our doom.

[gregwolf121]

okay first sorry for the double post, and i know that i said in the above post that i would claim in that one, but i ended up going on a bit longer than i had meant to, and i didn't want anybody to miss my claim so i'm putting it in this one so that all can see

i am the town cop, jay borgardas

[virus90]

Fail. I didn't see that post you just put there mtam.

What other posts didnt you see as well ?
Bombshell gets dropped, business as usual?

i, on purpose, dont comment on your defense yet greywolf because i want to give the others a possibility to take a stance and make an argument themselves. my objectivity on this subject is also "flawed" since i really want to be the one who catches the bad guy, not the one who made the towncop have to claim. And i thought i had a good case. (still think it is a good case, dont know if i am right, only time can tell).

Wow this game gets mental, even more then the RL version atleast you can look people in the eye and most of the time you know them

whatever happens, afraid many more mafia games gonna be played by me, this really is catchy

[mtamburini]

greg if you are cop i will put my trust in you.

Unvote greg

Knowing that greg is cop, doc (if we have one) protect greg overnight.

[mtamburini]

Does anyone CC greg's claim for being a cop?

[Iron Butterfly]

unless a counter claim unvote greg

[The Weird One]

Fail. I didn't see that post you just put there mtam.

What other posts didnt you see as well ?
Bombshell gets dropped, business as usual?

i, on purpose, dont comment on your defense yet greywolf because i want to give the others a possibility to take a stance and make an argument themselves. my objectivity on this subject is also "flawed" since i really want to be the one who catches the bad guy, not the one who made the towncop have to claim. And i thought i had a good case. (still think it is a good case, dont know if i am right, only time can tell).

Green bit: Agreed...that seems a bit off.
Blue bit: Your case is good from one point of view, and his holds water from another...Honestly, I'd rather go for a lynch, today, than a no lynch. Before anyone else says it: yes, I was voting for a no lynch, at one point. As previously explained, this was more out of a sense of hopelessness regarding mass inactivity and a sense of resignation and just wanting something to happen...Not the best reasons, but, hey, it got activity going. Smaller games can be an exception, I'll admit, to the "no lynch is bad for town", but I don't feel that this is always the case. You still get a good bit of info from it.

And I really hope we have a doc...otherwise this game just got so much harder...

[mtamburini]

And I really hope we have a doc...otherwise this game just got so much harder...

Could still be trouble if we have a doc, theres the scenario where doc gets roleblocked and they kill the cop. its not an impossible scenario but its still possible. aslo in the scenario we do have a doc, theres guarenteed a roleblocker so we may never get a report ever.

[virus90]

do the 2 mafia guys know about one and another or can they only start talking at the coming night for the first time?

[mtamburini]

Pretty sure they know who they are, just have not spoken yet.

[gregwolf121]

well in essence my role is useless now, the only two possible scenarios are where there is a cop, doc, mafia roleblocker and goon, in which case i get blocked and or killed. the other its cop and 2 goons in which case i just die, so unless mafia is incredibly stupid, i don't think i'll get any results to share with town,

[The Weird One]

well in essence my role is useless now, the only two possible scenarios are where there is a cop, doc, mafia roleblocker and goon, in which case i get blocked and or killed. the other its cop and 2 goons in which case i just die, so unless mafia is incredibly stupid, i don't think i'll get any results to share with town,

You're still a seasoned player who can contribute viable observations during day one, sir...At least there's that.

[mtamburini]

We can put pressure on someone else like we did to you greg to force a them to claim, try and narrow down the search

[The Weird One]

We can put pressure on someone else like we did to you greg to force a them to claim, try and narrow down the search

The problem with this in such a basic game is that you end up with a long line of people who all claim VT [vanilla townie], and you out any and all power roles [as seen already, today]...You more have to base it off of who is acting scummy and such than anything else.

[JamesKer1]

We can put pressure on someone else like we did to you greg to force a them to claim, try and narrow down the search

VOTE MTAMBURINI. I'm just done. Why did you guys make the town cop claim!?!

[virus90]

james that would be on me, i made the case and thought i had a solid one.

[The Weird One]

james that would be on me, i made the case and thought i had a solid one.

Yes, but you didn't suggest we continue the trend. I'm not going to throw my vote in that batch, quite yet...I feel that it was just a mistake of inexperience.

I am still curious what statistics were being talked about, before, though...Nobody ever answered that.