Religion + Extraterrestrial Life

[2dimes]

I am about to take the nickels swimming but that sounds interesting. I'll leave a question not necessarily for sabotage on the way out.

If there are angels are they aliens?

[_sabotage_]

Which, coming in peace and with the stated intent to help us, would we be more receptive of?

[warmonger1981]

There are two Gods, one of Good and the other of Evil, each independent, eternal, chief of a distinct Empire; necessarily, and of their very natures, hostile to one another. The Evil God, Satan, is the Genius of matter alone. The God of Good is infidelity his Superior, the True God; while the other is the chief of all that is the enemy of God, and must in the end succumb to His Power. The Empire of Light alone is eternal and true; and this Empire is a great chain of Emanations, all connected with the Supreme Being which they manifest; all Him, under different forms,chosenfor one end, the triumph of Good.

[crispybits]

Is that a philosophy or a rejected Steven Spielberg script?

[warmonger1981]

In each of His members lie hidden thousands of inefffable treasures. Excellent in His Glory, incomprehensible in His Greatness, the Father has joined Himself thosd fortunate and glorious Eons, whose Power and Number it is impossible to determine. This is Spinoza's Infinity of Infinite Attributes of God. Twelve chief Eons, at the head of all, were the Genii of the twelve Constellations of the Zodiac, and called by Manes, Olamin. Satan, also, Lord of the Empire of Darkness,had an Army of Eons or Demons, emanating from his Essence, and reflecting more or less his image, but divided and inharmonious among themselves. A war among them brought them to the confines of the Realm of Light. Delighte, they sought to conquer it. But the Chief of Celestrial Empire created a Power which he placed on the frontiers of Heaven to protect his Eons, and destroy the Empire of Evil .

[warmonger1981]

This was the Mother of Life, the Soul of the world, an Emanation from the Supreme Being, too pure to come in immediate contact with matter. It remained in the highest region; but produced a Son, the first Man [ the Kaiomorts, Ada-Kadmon, [ Protos Anthropos,] and Hivil-Zivah; of the Zend-Avesta, the Kabalah, the Gnosis, and Sabeism ] ; who commenced the contest with the Powers of Evil, but, losing part of him panoply, of his Light, his Son and many souls born of the Light, who were devoured by the darkness, God sent to his assistance the living Spirit, or the son of the First Man, or Jesus Christ. The Mother of Life, general Principle of Devine Life, and the first Man, Primitive Being that reveals the Divine Life, are too sublime to be connected with the Empire of Darkness.



To be continued ...

[BigBallinStalin]

Would you care for a link to the book? If you intend to ask me for definitions or specifics in order to argue the ink and not the point, I will provide one.

In short, an immortal race came to earth with advanced technology and taught some of it to man so that he could then in turn use it to sustain the race. They are depicted as angels, which some believe the aliens to be. The odd shaped skulls found around the pyramid sites seem to offer some proof. The Smithsonian has a record of buying up giant remains and making them disappear from the public. The fact that we can't replicate the pyramids today suggests they had as advanced technology in specifics, such as the quarrying of the stone, and more advanced technology for its transport.

The Book of Enoch describes these beings as angels, or watchers.

Oh, I seen this one. Prometheus, right? Well, Prometheus is more like the sequel.


So, we got one book--which Christianity rejects*, and it tells a story about aliens/Giants/Watchers** traveling a long(?) distance in order to assist a few slave owners and their most gracious slaves to make fancy stone structures for 20 years--or 500 Civ4 Hammers per Great Pyramid.***

• *I guess it rejects it; otherwise, shouldn't Christians be following the same rules as Jews? Maybe it was too early a time for Sci-fi? Book of Enoch was way ahead of its time!

• **Giants ran around eating people--Attack on Titan Hey-OHH!!

• **The 'fallen angels' taught certain humans astronomy and metallurgy--which was independently discovered in other parts of the world, which is odd. I guess they didn't need the fallen angels after all? And Ancient Egyptians must've been too stupid to develop their own technologies too (as is implied in the alien-tech explanation).

• ***(Note: the Egyptian civilization lacks a 50% Great Wonders Production bonus). Makes you wonder how they were first in the world to pull off the Pyramids. Musta been alien tech, or some cheat code.

[BigBallinStalin]

warmonger, isn't that Zoroastrianism?

[_sabotage_]

The Jews reject the Book of Enoch as well. It predates the writing of Genesis, as it is referred to.

Many sayings in the book are found in the sayings of Jesus and his disciples quoted it.

I did not say Egyptian pyramids. The skulls were found both in Peru and Egypt. According to the book, there were 200 "fallen angels" who went throughout the earth.

The pyramids, none of them, can be replicated with modern technology. The smallest stones were 20 tonnes, and it is physically impossible to move them as suggested by orthodox science. They had no wheel and yet moved some hundreds of miles. The stones in South America show signs of being formed through melting. Reaching 3000 degrees is hard to do, and made harder by the sheer size. We can, for example, focus the sun to above 5000, but this is at a point and can not explain melting or forming of stones of such size. We cannot explain the use of the pyramids.

Being a skeptic of the accepted is easy, of the unaccepted is foolish. Don't put yourself on a fool's errand, I'm happy to oblige.

[Lootifer]

Weirdly I just finished reading heart of the comet which also proposes similar questions.

Intereeeeeesting

Why would they want to visit Comet Haley?

Hitchin' a ride.

[/]

It's pretty simple. In the beginning there was the on earth water, the water above the sky, and the stars and stuff in between them.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

The above the sky water would be past outer space where all the stars are.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.

God then created the creatures of water. That doesn't specifically mean just the on earth water, he makes water in general teem with life.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”

Now an important thing to remember is that some Christians conclude that this world in its original state had no rain until the flood of Noah's time.
http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ29.html

The flood water were therefore brought to Earth by letting loose the vault between the sky and the earth



So then what happened to all of the life in the waters above? Obviously there's a reason that the aliens are squids since they used to swim in the sky before the vault was opened.

[notyou2]

Is that the religion of Water World?

[BigBallinStalin]

The Jews reject the Book of Enoch as well. It predates the writing of Genesis, as it is referred to.

Many sayings in the book are found in the sayings of Jesus and his disciples quoted it.

I did not say Egyptian pyramids. The skulls were found both in Peru and Egypt. According to the book, there were 200 "fallen angels" who went throughout the earth.

The pyramids, none of them, can be replicated with modern technology. The smallest stones were 20 tonnes, and it is physically impossible to move them as suggested by orthodox science. They had no wheel and yet moved some hundreds of miles. The stones in South America show signs of being formed through melting. Reaching 3000 degrees is hard to do, and made harder by the sheer size. We can, for example, focus the sun to above 5000, but this is at a point and can not explain melting or forming of stones of such size. We cannot explain the use of the pyramids.

Being a skeptic of the accepted is easy, of the unaccepted is foolish. Don't put yourself on a fool's errand, I'm happy to oblige.

I'll save these questions for the next Ancient Egyptian historian I meet.

[BigBallinStalin]

It's pretty simple. In the beginning there was the on earth water, the water above the sky, and the stars and stuff in between them.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

The above the sky water would be past outer space where all the stars are.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.

God then created the creatures of water. That doesn't specifically mean just the on earth water, he makes water in general teem with life.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”

Now an important thing to remember is that some Christians conclude that this world in its original state had no rain until the flood of Noah's time.
http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ29.html

The flood water were therefore brought to Earth by letting loose the vault between the sky and the earth



So then what happened to all of the life in the waters above? Obviously there's a reason that the aliens are squids since they used to swim in the sky before the vault was opened.

That vault is the sky. The water in the sky is rain.

, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”

Okay, living creatures in the water (of earth), and birds above the earth in the 'sky vault'--not really in the Heavens/Cosmos; otherwise, it would just say, 'birds in the heavens'. Looks like you're really pushing that sky vault-water cosmos interpretation a bit too much.

It seems the argument rests on interpretations of definitions (ancient to today's, and today's to today's) and on how much the reader stretches the meaning of 'this and that'.

Thanks, it's a dubious source, but it's better than nothing. Not as entertaining as the Book of Ewoch.

notyou2 makes a solid point too.

P.S. Excellent point about the squids. That explains why they're so smart too.

[mrswdk]

Science proves that the 9/11 buildings couldn't have fallen as the result of being hit by planes.

Does that mean that God (wait - Allah?) pushed them over?

[chang50]

Personally I hope me, some cavemen and all dogs go to heaven.

Not all humans value or even like dogs. So if aliens get here, we could be in trouble either way wether we're like dogs or insects.

Look at all the nasty things some do to other humans never mind "lesser" animals.

That's true I've never liked dogs,as a child they scared the crap out of me,but there are many animals I do like especially cats.
If aliens ever arrive we're almost certainly in trouble,especially if they're anything like us.We know from history what happens when a technologically superior group encounters an inferior one...genocide.And how advanced would they have to be to reach us?If we're lucky they might keep a few of us for research purposes,or amusement.

[BigBallinStalin]

That's generally what humans have done; not sure about other intelligent life forms though. I'm not even sure how much of our theories would apply to them too.

[chang50]

That's generally what humans have done; not sure about other intelligent life forms though. I'm not even sure how much of our theories would apply to them too.

I agree it's silly to speculate too much about what aliens might be like.Which makes me highly sceptical of the numerous 'ancient aliens' theories being advanced.I remember reading the books of Erich von Daniken before he was exposed as a fraud,and they seemed plausible at the time.Now I can see the faulty methodology in starting with the theory and making the evidence fit it,like religions so often do.True science starts with the evidence not the theory.

[_sabotage_]

Science proves that the 9/11 buildings couldn't have fallen as the result of being hit by planes.

Does that mean that God (wait - Allah?) pushed them over?

Dust samples from the site contain thermite, pictures from the site show thermite like cuts and videos from the site show the telltale white smoke produced by thermite. Paul Bremmar's company had a long standing relationship with the patent holder of thermite, was located on the floors struck by the plane and he was well rewarded in the aftermath.

If you are trying to argue that God is omniscient, and therefore present in both Paul and the thermite, then perhaps you have a case.

[_sabotage_]

The Jews reject the Book of Enoch as well. It predates the writing of Genesis, as it is referred to.

Many sayings in the book are found in the sayings of Jesus and his disciples quoted it.

I did not say Egyptian pyramids. The skulls were found both in Peru and Egypt. According to the book, there were 200 "fallen angels" who went throughout the earth.

The pyramids, none of them, can be replicated with modern technology. The smallest stones were 20 tonnes, and it is physically impossible to move them as suggested by orthodox science. They had no wheel and yet moved some hundreds of miles. The stones in South America show signs of being formed through melting. Reaching 3000 degrees is hard to do, and made harder by the sheer size. We can, for example, focus the sun to above 5000, but this is at a point and can not explain melting or forming of stones of such size. We cannot explain the use of the pyramids.

Being a skeptic of the accepted is easy, of the unaccepted is foolish. Don't put yourself on a fool's errand, I'm happy to oblige.

I'll save these questions for the next Ancient Egyptian historian I meet.

Almost papal in your choice of source.

If Jesus thought the Book of Enoch was a good enough source and taught this to his disciples, I don't really care what the Church thinks.

If you were more adept at arguing, you may state that the Book of Enoch describes the sons of God, a term Jesus frequently used to describe himself, that the angel used when confronting Mary and which is also found in Genesis. 2dimes recognized the potential of this quite quickly, perhaps Jesus was an alien. If there are aliens, then they are light years ahead of us, probably not just in technology, but in marketing.

You pose your question with a specific intent, not to learn, but to mock. Haha, there are aliens, so therefore no God. Congrats, your IQ has dipped below my demand for it, please cease supply.

[BigBallinStalin]

Please do go on about termite kittens and smoggy 9-11 buildings.

But seriously, I don't find your knowledge of Ancient Egypt to be impressive, which is why I'd rather ask someone who's spent 30+ years studying Ancient Egypt. Since you don't know how the Egyptians could've done X, Y, and Z, then you naively conclude " It was impossible! (implied: They're too stupid to do it!)" plus "SO it must be aliens! says so in this book of ewoch!"--which mentions Giants who eat people, or watchers who give technology--depending how much you're willing to bend your interpretation to fit your conclusion.

That's not a convincing argument. This is why people won't take you seriously.

[2dimes]

... you may state that the Book of Enoch describes the sons of God, a term Jesus frequently used to describe himself, that the angel used when confronting Mary and which is also found in Genesis. 2dimes recognized the potential of this quite quickly, perhaps Jesus was an alien.

While I do not adversely counter the opinion, that Jesus was merely an alien. I actually believe it is an important tool of deception.

I think some day there may either be an extra terrestrial encounter or one so well faked no one will be able to disprove it.

At which point many will proclaim the same thing many before have believed about their cult leaders.

He was just like Jesus.

I have watched videoclips of people saying that many times talking about Marshall Applewhite, Dave Koresh even Chuck Manson.

If there are aliens, then they are light years ahead of us, probably not just in technology, but in marketing.

I suspect there may be some like that. There might be some exactly like us and there may be some that are still primitive.

We are not sons of God like the Christ. We are the sons of God through him.

[warmonger1981]

CONTINUED


The Son of Man or Soul of the World, enters into the Darkness, becomes its captivate, to end by tempering and softening its savage nature. The Devine Spirit, after having brought back the Primitive Man to the Empire of Light, raises above the world that part of the Celestrial Soul that remained unaffected by being mingled with the Empire of Darkness. Placed in the region of the Sun and the Moon, this pure soul, the Son of Man, Redeemer or Christ, labors to deliver and attract to Himself that part of the Light or of the Soul of the Fifst Man diffused through matter; which done, the world will cease to exist. To retain the rays of Light still remaining among his Eons, and ever tending to escape and return, by concentrating them, the Prince of Darkness, with their consent, made Adam, whose soul was of Divine Light, contributed by Eons, and his body of matter, so that he belonged to both Empires, that of Light and that of Darkness.

[_sabotage_]

The ability to call yourself Christian too often comes from people attending church of one sort or another. This was never a requirement of Jesus. People then go to these churches and bow their heads to the prayers of long winded preachers, something which Jesus expressly forbid. One can read the history of witch hunts and other religious lynchings and see that this is also something explicitly forbidden by the words and example of Jesus. Some may look to the churches justification for slavery and see that they were substituting the words of Jesus for older testament. Someone may then come to the conclusion that the modern Church is no better than the Pharisees of his day. And so they quote Saul more often than Jesus.

I find the Church's deliberate attempt to focus attention away from the Book of Enoch interesting. Examining some of the other works which the Church has done their utmost to eliminate, we can get a pretty good idea of why they try to distance themselves, and Jesus, away from the work. The Gospel of Thomas is the only gospel which has the potential to be a contemporary work and it is agreed that it did come from the 1st century, and many of the sayings found in it are found in the other gospels, with a few notable exceptions. One of them: Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven." At the time, the Church was male dominated and we can see why they may have had trouble with it. But I am not an organization, intent with my own objectives. My objective is simple, the knowledge and requirements of man toward God. In short, finding Jesus is often a case of looking away from the Church.

With this is mind, I refer to what Jesus said, not Saul or the man in the funny hat. I am also more interested in Jesus's reading list than that of the people he denounced in his lifetime. But seek and you will find is both a blessing and a curse.

Jesus referenced very few books, and was referred to in very few; he is a pretty easy guy to research. And impossible to research as well. Are the Gospels of Mary and Judas credible? Do they offer anything new? Is what they offer consistent with Jesus according to other works? Is what they say something that the Church would have a crusade against? The Church long maintained that the quote in Luke is from a different Book of Enoch. This is interesting because the Church was the only one with access to confirm this for over 1500 years and when an alternate source became available it showed that this was a lie on their behalf as the quote is word for word from the "real" Book of Enoch. So what were they deliberately hiding?

As you put it, the book was ahead of its time, and it describes itself in this way. A book for later generations it states. It describes the fallen angels which we so often talk of with almost zero mention from the approved Bible. It talks about the coming messiah and the description of heaven, the exact description that Jesus gave centuries later. It talks about the future of mankind and its battles with the fallen angels, who by the way were never described as having wings.

How well does the book meet my criteria? Jesus had several instances were he depicted demons and Satan as real, present and intent on evil. He gave matching descriptions of heaven as in the book and referred to himself as the son of God, all found in the book. So it would appear to be more consistent with what Jesus thought than what the church said. As someone who believes in Jesus, I say that any good follower would believe in the book.

Is there any historical substantiation or corroboration? One problem I have with all your graphs showing how harmonious the world would be under free economics, is that the potential benefit provided to society under the condition would be more than enough of a benefit to subvert any individual or group of individuals that intended on carrying it out and if the demand is currently being supplied by a small enough group, the effort required for them to maintain their position is less than required to lose it. But some evidence is harder to hide than other, bribe out of existence or kill off. The FAA can put a block on UFO chatter, the Smithsonian can always be the highest bidder with the largest warehouse, books can be burnt, dismissed or interpreted. But the pyramids are harder to hide.

We don't know the age of the pyramids. There are inscribed dates, but graffiti isn't confirmation of building date. We know that the inner resonating granite core was hauled the furthest, but not its purpose. For a while we thought that they were close to the true value of pi, but more recently we've found that actually they were closer than we had been just 20 years ago, and the closer we get to pi, the closer to their value we get. The marks left by their equipment at the quarries exactly replicates that made by modern quarrying equipment of high velocity, diamond-tipped compression drills and saws.

Can you explain that with evolution? I can explain it with religious text. Can you explain the elongated skulls? Can you explain vast number of recent UFO sightings?

Let's start simple, you just posted that prior to 1917 government spending was 1% of GDP, what changed that? Who founded the University of Chicago? And what was the full quote regarding free markets according to Adam Smith? If you intend to know the origins of evil, it may be necessary to prove it exists after all. And what better place than on your footing? Do what thou wilt, though.

[warmonger1981]

To prevent light from escaping at once, the Demons forbade Adam from eating the fruit of "knowledge of good and evil," by which he would have known the Empire of Light and Darkness. He obeyed an Angel of Light induced him to transgress, and gave him the means of victory; but the Demons created Eve, who seduced him into an act of Sensualism, that enfeebled him, and bound him anew in the bonds of matter. This is repeated in the case of every man that lives. To deliver the soul, captive in darkness, the Principle of Light, or Genius of the Sun, charged to redeem the Intelllectual World, of which he is the type, came to manifest Himself among men. Light appeared in the great darkness, but the darkness comprehended it not; according to the words of St. John. The Light could not unite with the darkness. It but put on the appearance of a human body, and took the name of Christ in the Messiah, only to accommodate itself to the language of the Jews.