Re: Rail S America [21.11.13] BETA READY

[cairnswk]

So if you want to keep the fourth H line, i am thinking that maybe B FOR can be alleviated.
Do you agree to return to 89 GN ?

i seem to remember that koontz suggested removing a whole load of neutrals to move up to the next golden number. do we have enough non-essential neutrals to do this? if not, then keep B FOR if possible because fortaleza is a well-known city, one of the largest in brazil. ESG in paraguay or VVI in bolivia are better candidates for removal, since they are obscure places whose elimination hardly changes any of the gameplay on the map.

OK, i'll take VVI out.

these are the new bonuses i propose...
These are worked with adjustments made for
1. minus hat bonuses

the hat bonuses haven't been deducted correctly: they have to be done at the end of the calculation, not in the middle, since each hat reduces the bonus by only 0.17 at the moment (the correct deduction is 0.5 for a 2-station hat and 0.67 for a 3-station hat).

ian.

this is the new bonus list with the hats removed at the end.

• Line Bonus CONTINENT Plus Hat Bonus
  1 H - Central America 0
  3 O - Columbian 3
  0 D - Ecuadorian 1
  2 P - Peruvian 2
  2 C - Chilean 3
  1 V - Bolivean 3
  2 U - Venezuelan 2
  1 K - Guyanese 1
  2 Y - Paraguayan 1
  3 G - Uraguayan 0
  4 B - Belem Line 1
  6 R - Rio Line 2
  4 A - Soa Paulo Line 2
  4 Z - Porto Alegre Line 1
  4 I - Campo Grande Line 0
  3 L - Porto Velho Line 2
  2 J - Amazon Line 2
  1 M - Manaus Line 1
  3 Q - Teresina Line 0
  2 N - Santiago Line 0
  2 E - Bahia Line 1
  3 S - Santa Fe Line 1
  2 T - Cordoba Line 1

But i am sorry, i have to say, i don't agree with many of those bonuses, particularly when some continents have 4 stations to defend but only get 3 to defend it with.

[koontz1973]

Here you go cairns. Slightly over due and I apologise for that.


I know you and ian are still discussing the bonuses but I see no reason to hold you up any longer. Things can still be discussed and agreed on while you work on the graphics.

[cairnswk]

Thanks koontz, most unexpected

[cairnswk]

While waiting for ian to answer re gameplay..
i thought i'd try something a little different to see if anyone liked the direction.
There was a request for some mountains a while back, so while i don't want to do the whole NZ thing that i did, i thought this might be a good compromise to compare against.

[isaiah40]

Please keep what you have, IMHO, it looks 100x's better!!!

[cairnswk]

Thanks for responding isaiah40.

Towards moving on with other stuff, i've found a new font for the title - Samba - very appropriate i think, so i've used that on major headings also.
I've also enhanced (i think) the paper of the whole image with a sligthly course surface to give texture,
and enhanced the buildings with the same outer glow & bevel/emboss.

here is large and small version 24

Click image to enlarge.

Starting neutrals

[koontz1973]

Really nice looking and I like all of the improvements.

[Gilligan]

I REALLY like that texture.

[cairnswk]

Really nice looking and I like all of the improvements.

I REALLY like that texture.

Thanks guys.

So if you want to keep the fourth H line, i am thinking that maybe B FOR can be alleviated.
Do you agree to return to 89 GN ?

i seem to remember that koontz suggested removing a whole load of neutrals to move up to the next golden number. do we have enough non-essential neutrals to do this? if not, then keep B FOR if possible because fortaleza is a well-known city, one of the largest in brazil. ESG in paraguay or VVI in bolivia are better candidates for removal, since they are obscure places whose elimination hardly changes any of the gameplay on the map.

OK, i'll take VVI out.

these are the new bonuses i propose...
These are worked with adjustments made for
1. minus hat bonuses

the hat bonuses haven't been deducted correctly: they have to be done at the end of the calculation, not in the middle, since each hat reduces the bonus by only 0.17 at the moment (the correct deduction is 0.5 for a 2-station hat and 0.67 for a 3-station hat).

ian.

this is the new bonus list with the hats removed at the end.

• Line Bonus CONTINENT Plus Hat Bonus
  1 H - Central America 0
  3 O - Columbian 3
  0 D - Ecuadorian 1
  2 P - Peruvian 2
  2 C - Chilean 3
  1 V - Bolivean 3
  2 U - Venezuelan 2
  1 K - Guyanese 1
  2 Y - Paraguayan 1
  3 G - Uraguayan 0
  4 B - Belem Line 1
  6 R - Rio Line 2
  4 A - Soa Paulo Line 2
  4 Z - Porto Alegre Line 1
  4 I - Campo Grande Line 0
  3 L - Porto Velho Line 2
  2 J - Amazon Line 2
  1 M - Manaus Line 1
  3 Q - Teresina Line 0
  2 N - Santiago Line 0
  2 E - Bahia Line 1
  3 S - Santa Fe Line 1
  2 T - Cordoba Line 1

But i am sorry, i have to say, i don't agree with many of those bonuses, particularly when some continents have 4 stations to defend but only get 3 to defend it with.

Further for ian...
UYU hat bonus was only 1.
I have increased it to 2 inline with other 3 station hat bonuses.

[cairnswk]

I've added some building lights to side of BSB and BUA buildings.

[RedBaron0]

I REALLY like that texture.

I REALLY like her mane! : sorry, bad pony joke XD :

But... I figure my job is gonna be pretty easy here. I will through something out for debate though, the hat bonus, would it be better to put the bonus value in the legend instead of directly on the map? On the map the number may cause confusion as a player may see it as part of the territory name instead of the bonus's value. Or, you could put the numbers on both legend and the map hats. It could cause clutter, but also make it easier to identify, will depend on what looks best, and whatever makes the map most readable.

[isaiah40]

I must say cairns, IMO, this is the best map you have made thus far graphically speaking!

But... I figure my job is gonna be pretty easy here. I will through something out for debate though, the hat bonus, would it be better to put the bonus value in the legend instead of directly on the map? On the map the number may cause confusion as a player may see it as part of the territory name instead of the bonus's value. Or, you could put the numbers on both legend and the map hats. It could cause clutter, but also make it easier to identify, will depend on what looks best, and whatever makes the map most readable.

The problem with putting the bonus value in the legend is that you have a few which have different values, unless you place them beside the hats, which would make it cramped. I say keep them were they are, except the CRS/REC/SAO values. They are a tad hard to read with that red band on the hat. My suggestion would be to place the bonus value just above the red band and see if it is easier to read. That is all I can see.

[cairnswk]

I must say cairns, IMO, this is the best map you have made thus far graphically speaking!

I think i'm learning eh!?

But... I figure my job is gonna be pretty easy here. I will through something out for debate though, the hat bonus, would it be better to put the bonus value in the legend instead of directly on the map? On the map the number may cause confusion as a player may see it as part of the territory name instead of the bonus's value. Or, you could put the numbers on both legend and the map hats. It could cause clutter, but also make it easier to identify, will depend on what looks best, and whatever makes the map most readable.

The problem with putting the bonus value in the legend is that you have a few which have different values, unless you place them beside the hats, which would make it cramped. I say keep them were they are, except the CRS/REC/SAO values. They are a tad hard to read with that red band on the hat. My suggestion would be to place the bonus value just above the red band and see if it is easier to read. That is all I can see.

I have to agree with isaiah40...
but first RB0..sorry, but "through" <- throw
i don't like clutter, and i think the legend is already packed.
I will move the bonuses around so they are more clearly visible. perhaps even a small increase in size.

[koontz1973]

Suggestion for you. Now that you have the paper effect running over the map, the four corners are like frame clips, how about making them gold using the effect you perfected in Moscow?

[Aleena]

good suggestion - either gold, or chrome... think it would make it pop...

[isaiah40]

Suggestion for you. Now that you have the paper effect running over the map, the four corners are like frame clips, how about making them gold using the effect you perfected in Moscow?

+1000 if you want to do it!

[cairnswk]

Suggestion for you. Now that you have the paper effect running over the map, the four corners are like frame clips, how about making them gold using the effect you perfected in Moscow?

koontz, those corners are the old style (although they are still around) corners that used to keep photos in albums.
they are not gold clips....
http://www.musthavemenus.com/clipart/ph ... rners.html

good suggestion - either gold, or chrome... think it would make it pop...

Suggestion for you. Now that you have the paper effect running over the map, the four corners are like frame clips, how about making them gold using the effect you perfected in Moscow?

+1000 if you want to do it!

so i don't think i'd like to go down that road of turning them gold or silver or whatever other colour.
I think the map actually "pops" as it is...it also lifts its leg

thanks for the suggestions though

[koontz1973]

Suggestion for you. Now that you have the paper effect running over the map, the four corners are like frame clips, how about making them gold using the effect you perfected in Moscow?

koontz, those corners are the old style (although they are still around) corners that used to keep photos in albums.
they are not gold clips....
http://www.musthavemenus.com/clipart/ph ... rners.html

so i don't think i'd like to go down that road of turning them gold or silver or whatever other colour.
I think the map actually "pops" as it is...it also lifts its leg

thanks for the suggestions though

Fair enough, but can I ask you to make the ones you have look like the adhesive pads (I have used them in my wedding album) and not some god awful clip art then?

cairns, please do not get me wrong on this, the map looks bloody fantastic, as for ideas and suggestions go to make it better, I cannot think of another one or see anything wrong with the map. You have surpassed your best by a mile. So without blowing too much smoke up your arse, the map looks fantastic, the corners now look like shit. So I think I will have one more go at asking you to change them for something different.


This is the one you linked to and it looks worse than the ones you have so not really a good argument for keeping your ones.

Spoiler

Here are some others that show you can get a little more creative over them.

Spoiler

But if you really did not like the look of those ones, here are some more ideas allowing you to change the look easily and giving it a bit more.

glass photo frames

Your corners made into two simple silver bars.

Click image to enlarge.

A straight forward plastic frame. I know it is pink but I found it on a girly site. It can be any colour, black, pink or even gold.

Click image to enlarge.

Here are the clips I asked for at first, back only here

Click image to enlarge.

But placing them in the normal style of north, east, south, west

In the corners

two in each corner

Sorry to bug you cairns over this, I promise to not turn this into gold frame like Moscow.

[cairnswk]

koontz, you initially asked me to turn them to Moscow gold and i said i wouldn't go down down that road.

While i am happy with them, you then asked me to do something with them, which i will endeavour to do for you, but don't expect too much as i don't want to take it too far away from the idea of being a photo? in an album which is a design CC doesn't have.

unlike your ideas that you've conveyed to me with Moscow gold that seems to suit your vision for the map, my idea for this map is that it is not to be sparkling gold or silver or any other colour.

I am quite displeased with your insult about the corners describing the corners as you did...clipart. and shit.
Those parts are indeed hand drawn vectors in PS5 and not clipart borrowed from somewhere. There is no need to use that sort of insult. As for blwoing smoke up my arse, well what can i say execpt you sir are totally uncooth., and if you're going to use that sort of labguage in my thread, then please don't bother coming back...boy in blue or not.

[koontz1973]

While i am happy with them, you then asked me to do something with them, which i will endeavour to do for you, but don't expect too much as i don't want to take it too far away from the idea of being a photo? in an album which is a design CC doesn't have.

This is all I ask. I know from what I have seen of your work, you can take the most mundane of ideas and turn it into gold dust. I promise to not get my hopes up.

I am quite displeased with your insult about the corners describing the corners as you did...clipart. and shit.

I really did not mean to insult you over them and I know the ones you have are drawn by you and not a short cut via clip art and I never said anything or even implied it. But to say they are as good as the rest of the map, I would have to stand by my original statement but remove the offending words which are probably a bit harsh. But come on cairns, my words are not that bad so please do not get overly offended by them. I did not mean them in any way as an insult to you but to try and convey my feelings of admiration for your skill without giving you a big head, or have I just insulted you again?

[cairnswk]

....But to say they are as good as the rest of the map, I would have to stand by my original statement...

and that was all that was needed koontz, the other rhoetirc was not required.

Still waiting to hear from ian re the bonuses discussion from previous page.

Version 25.
1. bevelled the corners
2. same styles applied to the train photos as the title
3. underlying neutrals text removed - always intended never to be there permanently

Click image to enlarge.

[cairnswk]

pls note the xml file is only there for centering purposes

[cairnswk]

Version 26.
Some changes to the corners as requested....not sure they are perfect yet, but getting there towards what i envisage.

[cairnswk]

Version 27.

1. the photos, legends and title have had their opacity lowered so that the map stands out more as the central image
2. the legend bonuses are changed to the new bonuses that were calculated as normal minus any hat bonus that is available when the hat is gained
3. the rail line has been removed from the legend...i think it simplifies the map and gives the bonus legend the same treatment as the other texts therefore not setting it apart.

[koontz1973]

cairns, nice idea to remove the line around the legend, but with the lower opacity, I am finding it hard to read. Can you bring it up some. Maybe half way between what you have now and what was before. As for the corners (much better by the way already), should they not go to the top and cover some of TGU station (as long as you can read the line and station name).