[Abandoned] Escape [19/5] Pages 1/9

[mint-murray]

If playing Nuclear - It may then have the same affect - as annoying( depends how you look at it) nukes in labyrinth hitting slave position, and eliminating you from game.

[EricPhail]

True, but thats the case with any losing condition and nuclear spoils, and IMO that nuclear spoils can end the game by being odd, is no reason not to make use of the losing condition function.

[koontz1973]

I agree with Eric on this. The LC will go back in. And unlike Labs of most losing conditions, this one will not be too harsh as most people will be able to keep at least in one room when playing nukes. But it will help eliminations and sweeps of the board.

[koontz1973]

Sorted out all things pointed out.

Back in with the losing condition, secret passage is now stairs via basement.

Click image to enlarge.

Need to finalise the starting positions.

[EricPhail]

Looking good, a few things however:
Map of region bonuses says "closits [sic] no bonus" should now read "stairs no bonus"

Assuming the hallways start neutral, what is/will be the neutral value (if they are starting positions: how are you making sure all players start with a fair balance of rooms and halls - given the decay and losing condition?)

not really sure if I can be much help on the starting positions

one other thing I've noticed the area around hallway 20 has a lot of purple (dark blue what colour are you calling that keycard?) doors (might be an idea for the lab 3 or head scientist office doors to be red)

finally: it is possible to be in positions where you won't lose but CAN'T win save by time out: is there any way to avoid leaving freemiums trapped (bar deadbeating) for days in a game they couldn't win even if the other players tried to help them?

[koontz1973]

Map of region bonuses says "closits [sic] no bonus" should now read "stairs no bonus"

Nice spot, will get changed today.

Assuming the hallways start neutral, what is/will be the neutral value (if they are starting positions: how are you making sure all players start with a fair balance of rooms and halls - given the decay and losing condition?)

I had planned on the 3 max starting positions, one in each area. These need to go onto the map. Neutrals for hallways and all other non areas I was thinking of two.

one other thing I've noticed the area around hallway 20 has a lot of purple (dark blue what colour are you calling that keycard?) doors (might be an idea for the lab 3 or head scientist office doors to be red)

I see, the reason it is not red is this. You need all three cards (red,green,blue) to get the yellow card. The reason why those doors are blue is to force any player that thinks holding the labs for a win to come out to get a blue card. I see what you mean though. I will look again at the door colours though more than the cards.

finally: it is possible to be in positions where you won't lose but CAN'T win save by time out: is there any way to avoid leaving freemiums trapped (bar deadbeating) for days in a game they couldn't win even if the other players tried to help them?

It is possible, get trapped behind a door with no way out. And as that is not going to fly with the game play rules, I need to make sure that cannot happen. How about a way for doord to be passable from the inside of a room. So for the test subjects holding room, the card is red and the door is blue. If that was my only region, I am buggered as you stated. So what if I had it that if you are in a room, the door do not need a key? So of like an emergency button on the inside to let you out incase of fire. Better wording needed.

[Seamus76]

Having the doors be open from the inside does solve your problem of getting players trapped. Something simple like, no key card is needed to exit a room. Or if you have room go creative.

[EricPhail]

Certain* Doors always open to halls without a key card works (I presume you can code it as a one way assault unless you hold the appropriate key card)

*any door(s) that could otherwise leave a player completely trapped

List of current trapping doors (that I can see) :
Admin 4
Sec 1/Admin 3
Coffee lounge
Head of security office (might be better to just pick 1 rather than both)
Admin 1
Stairs 1 (since stairs 2 has no route to a keycard either)
Weapon
Infirmary 1

Chemical Storage
Test Subject holding cell
Head Scientist office

Actually the entire area around hallway 20 is a trap (needs unlocked passage to a keycard that will allow it to eventually return to the body of the facility)

One final graphical nitpick please remove the unused doorways between Security 2/Hallway 2 ans conference room2/hallway 6
to avoid people thinking those are actually passage

[koontz1973]

One final graphical nitpick please remove the unused doorways between Security 2/Hallway 2 ans conference room2/hallway 6
to avoid people thinking those are actually passage

Remove or add a blood trail (attack route)? Which one would you think is better?
If you look at my maps, I have always been one to favour multiple attack routes. Being an escalating player, the idea of having to choose attack routes appeals to me.
Already fixed the door problem wit them opening from the inside.

Actually the entire area around hallway 20 is a trap (needs unlocked passage to a keycard that will allow it to eventually return to the body of the facility)

This whole area will get more hallway regions. But will see about opening it up some as well. Not to much. I want the scientist area to be really confined and hard to move around in. This is the outbreak point and needs to be contained (my thoughts behind it). Dorm rooms are open whilst offices are the biggest area. Admin for a facility like this is going to be huge (mainly if you are government).

[EricPhail]

Security 2/Hallway 2 could be an attack route if you think thats better

Conference 2/Hallway 6 I'd lose that doorway myself (actually tbh at the moment the coference room doesn't seem to have much purpose really - perhaps a route to hallway 11)


Blood trails are a little confusing for me at the moment
eg Admin 6 does it border Hallway 6? 7? both? or admin 5 and the head of security office as well
also does admin 6 border finance 2 (without needing an intervening hallway)
security 1 and the coffee lounge as above


Finally a simple graphical note there should be a blood trail between Dorm 1 and hallway 13 given that there's a door there

[koontz1973]

Security 2/Hallway 2 could be an attack route if you think thats better

Will leave in.

Conference 2/Hallway 6 I'd lose that doorway myself (actually tbh at the moment the coference room doesn't seem to have much purpose really -

Will remove.

Blood trails are a little confusing for me at the moment

Seems to be a theme with this one. I will redo the whole lot and move some regions around so all army circles sit on the trails.

Finally a simple graphical note there should be a blood trail between Dorm 1 and hallway 13 given that there's a door there

Yes, will add.

This is going to take a bit of time so give me a few days.

[-=- Tanarri -=-]

Just dropping in to give a little encouragement for the next revision... looking forward to playing this one when it hits Beta

[koontz1973]

Just dropping in to give a little encouragement for the next revision... looking forward to playing this one when it hits Beta

Sorry, this fell onto the back burner. Will get the updated map posted this weekend.

[cairnswk]

koontz, sorry this is a negative one....
but i think the original version was far better than the graphics now...they are totally confusing and over the top and you have to search everywhere for bits and pieces.
This is, IMO, needs pulling right back.
Sorry, just my opinion.

[koontz1973]

koontz, sorry this is a negative one....
but i think the original version was far better than the graphics now...they are totally confusing and over the top and you have to search everywhere for bits and pieces.
This is, IMO, needs pulling right back.
Sorry, just my opinion.

cairns, which version are you saying to go back to? I think the only really new idea on this over the others is now the blood trails on the map for connections. Or do you mean the legend part of the image?

[cairnswk]

koontz, sorry this is a negative one....
but i think the original version was far better than the graphics now...they are totally confusing and over the top and you have to search everywhere for bits and pieces.
This is, IMO, needs pulling right back.
Sorry, just my opinion.

cairns, which version are you saying to go back to? I think the only really new idea on this over the others is now the blood trails on the map for connections. Or do you mean the legend part of the image?

koontz V3 was much clearer for me to understand, but then it doesn't coinvey what you need on the map.
the current version has too many white background pieces going on in conjunction with what i percieve as light grey army shadows...combine that with the blood trails, and it becomes very confusing to examine.
I watched The Following last night for the first time - Kevin Bacon and James Purefoy (of Mark Anthony fame from Rome) - and it seems that your concept of "blood art" and Dr Joe Carroll's blood art is similarly aligned - no insult intended - but there is similarity and trying to read the legend with that blood all over the cards is a nightmare...perhaps that can be toned down a lot.
At present, i just find the whole map over-the-top and rather confusing to read - less is more...remember what we did to pull back Madrid.
I think part of the issue is also trying to read the room names which haven't been lifted from the grey background and aren't clear to identify.

[iancanton]

will an appropriate number of labs start as n1 or n2 to reduce the initial 1v1 deployment to 4 troops?

ian.

[iancanton]

[Moved]

At the request of the mapmaker, this map has been placed on vacation for a period of 6 months. After the 6 months, the map will be considered Abandoned. If the mapmaker wants to continue with the map, then one of the Cartographer Assistants will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system, after an update has been made.

ian.

[ViperOverLord]

JMO: This could end up being Koontz's best map to date. Though off the top of my head, Rorke's Drift and 1982 are both high quality.

[koontz1973]

JMO: This could end up being Koontz's best map to date. Though off the top of my head, Rorke's Drift and 1982 are both high quality.

This will be back. Expect it in the foundry around Christmas with an ideal beta date of next summer.

[ViperOverLord]

JMO: This could end up being Koontz's best map to date. Though off the top of my head, Rorke's Drift and 1982 are both high quality.

This will be back. Expect it in the foundry around Christmas with an ideal beta date of next summer.

My (your) expectations have been dashed.