Themeless twisted mafia Day 2. No deaths, 13/14 alive.

[DoomYoshi]

So no matter what I am scum, eh, aage. This is the most vacuous and vapid case I have been subjected to in a long time.

Prove me wrong. Or prove anything at all, for that matter. You say that my accusation is wrong, explain why. The one-liner isn't going to cut it, actually it's typical for your scummy plays in this game.

No, the truth is you won't defend yourself because you can't. I called you on this and there's no excuse. Is there?

You haven't accused me of anything other than of being scum.

You've had a raging hard-on for since day 1, as evidenced by this post:

Shall we get on with it, then?

Doom, you've made six posts within two days (and incidentally also two pages) and therefore you get my vote.

unvote, vote DoomYoshi

So my crime is posting two much.

Then:

Spoiler

I see no reason why a neb lynch shouldn't happen. With that being said, I don't think it is necessarily our best option. And before you ask me who is a better option, at this point, I have no idea.

Lynch me. I'll take shape's place.

you got it,

UNVOTE
VOTE NEB

that was the hammer

unovte
vote neb

Not a lot there.

I suspect it has to do with your role, but since apparently we don't get to see the role of people who died you're going to have to elaborate.

aage asks me to elaborate. I do, as he rephrases my entire case for me, proving that he does indeed understand it:

Spoiler

FOS pcm for assuming a hammer case, when I didn't make one.

My question has nothing to do with hammering. It seems to me you're dodging and it's not ok. I'm saying that during that timeframe anyone could have unvoted him (including you) and no one did. So again, I ask you: why is superkeener the one getting the vote.

Okay, I'll bite.

You're misparaphrasing the situation. Superkeener was the one who probably believed Neb to be town. Doom didn't. He presented a case about why Neb should be lynched. Diverting an L-2 wagon because someone else was scummy too is unnecessary, and it only makes sense that Doom opened this day with his current vote.

Superkeener didn't agree with Doom's case on Neb, however, since he posted that there were no convincing arguments. The primary reason for his vote concerned Neb's replacing. Since mafia members can't replace any other roles, he cannot have thought Neb to be mafia. Logically, he must have thought him to be the VT he claimed to be, and why would you vote someone you think is a VT? It's anti-town. Theoretically, the case is actually pretty strong.

Waiting for superkeener's follow-up explanation post.

And then we get to this:

@saf: my flip may tell you something. My claim doesn't.

Then we might as well just lynch you and Keener and everyone else, right?

Doom, you're not making a hell of a lot of sense and you completely ignored my plead for giving actual defenses. Do you want to have a case on you? Because right now you're wasting town time. That justifies a vote DoomYoshi at this point.

There is so much wrong with this. a) How am I not making sense? Which part would you like me to clarify? Do you really need an explanation of how my claim doesn't actually tell you anything? Is this why you are voting me?

b) Completely ignored? What plea? I have reread your entire post history up-to-this-point twice now and there is not a single plea anywhere, for anything. You don't accuse me of anything at any point and therefore there is nothing I can do to offer a defense.

c) You ask if I want to have a case on me. Yes, I do. I would rather there be a case so I would have something to defend against than having absolutely nothing.

d) Explain better how I am wasting town time.

In short, aage and jonty are hallucinatory and trying desperately to save keener's hide for whatever reason.

[Iron Butterfly]

Aage, I am playing same as I always do. Maybe a bit bitchier than normal.

So my crime switched from only posting one-liners to posting too much?

"getting us nowhere"
-Not true. I got us to a wagon. I am probably going to get us to a lynch. Where else do you want me to get us to? Also, why is the entire weight of where we go on me? Why can't I passively sit back and let the wagon go where others want to steer?

If I was scum, then me directing town would be worse. If you think I am scum, you should be glad I am getting us nowhere because anywhere scum takes us is bad.

Oh, scum rarely directs town. They haven't the guts.

But you have indeed given us two wagons. One is on superkeener, yes you started it, and I already told you why I don't favour it. The other is on you. I doubt you're referring to that one, because getting yourself lynched is never good.

You are right on the latter part of your post though, that's why I don't really think superkeener to be scum. Even for scum, why would anyone deliberately and publicly be such a pain in the ass to town? Cause I don't know, and I have no reason to believe this is a setup.

"I don't know. Superkeener's attitude is characteristic of bad play, not necessarily bad intent. Why would anyone not bother to defend themselves?"

You keep saying this as if it means something without considering the psychological aspects of weather he is Town or mafia.

If you are going to keep using this as an argument to defend Superkeener you need to explain what exactly is "characteristic" of bad play and more importantly how can you determine "intent" if you do not know alignment?

I already told you, I don't care whether superkeener dies. But:
"Not only [is Doom] probably more dangerous, but [he is] also more likely to actually be scum."

Tell me about the psychological aspects. Why would town be a public pain in the ass to town? Why would scum be a public pain in the ass to town? It's probably a load of wifom, but if you ignore that the conclusion seems clear, because neither question has a good answer. Therefore him being a pain in the ass right now doesn't tell us anything about his alignment, only about his level of play. And it's low, I'll grant you, but we don't string up people because we dislike them. We string them up because we think they're scum.

Your answer is a non answer.

One could also be a bad player with mafia alignment.

[spiesr]

I assume that the current vote count looks like this:
Superkeener(5): rishaed, Iron Butterfly, thechuck51, DoomYoshi, spiesr
DoomYoshi(5): superkeener, safariguy5, pancakemix, aage, jonty125

According to the rules for this game no lynch will occur unless we can get someone to 7 votes in time.
If we consider freezie's setting the deadline at ten days to mean approximately 240 hours then we have less than 8 remaining.
In general I believe that getting a lynch is preferable to not. We have had some discussion to work with from today, all of it pretty much centered on those two.
I have a bit of a dilemma here. I am concerned about the possibility of whomever we lynch coming up unknown like Neb did. Such a possibility kind of dissuades me from lynching for the sake of lynching. If we don't see the alignment from the lynch then where do we go from there? The other side of this situation is that I feel that if we don't end up lynching one of these two today we will just end up in the same situation tomorrow (barring a night action that finds a scum) and I don't want to waste the day.
As for who to lynch, I seem to be in the weird situation where I could feel okay with either being chosen despite the entire premise of the stuff on DoomYoshi should make it impossible to buy into both sides. I suppose I feel more strongly about the DoomYoshi lynch and will move my vote back there.
Unvote
Vote DoomYoshi

[DoomYoshi]

fail. that, and purple.

[edocsil]

Bah. I hate NL. Same thoughts as Spiesr, but I really think you guys have a hard on for hanging Doom mainly because he was a dick.

[spiesr]

Bah. I hate NL. Same thoughts as Spiesr, but I really think you guys have a hard on for hanging Doom mainly because he was a dick.

If you wish to avoid No Lynch you should vote for one or the other very quickly.

[aage]

Your answer is a non answer.

One could also be a bad player with mafia alignment.

One could also be a good player with mafia alignment. Should we string those up too?
I never said Superkeener's bad play was his saving grace. Hell, it's probably his dooming quality.

Quality of player has nothing to do with alignment. Since the other arguments against Superkeener are quite weak, and also because I believe Doom to be scum, I'm voting for Doom.

You haven't accused me of anything other than of being scum.

Well, yes. I'm not accusing you of being town.

a) How am I not making sense? Which part would you like me to clarify? Do you really need an explanation of how my claim doesn't actually tell you anything? Is this why you are voting me? I meant your case was bad. I apologise if that was unclear, as I've only said it all the time.

b) Completely ignored? What plea? I have reread your entire post history up-to-this-point twice now and there is not a single plea anywhere, for anything. You don't accuse me of anything at any point and therefore there is nothing I can do to offer a defense. I wasn't the first to vote for you though. You ignored those previous votes easily enough. I never said it was my case against you, that only came in when I voted for you during this day.

c) You ask if I want to have a case on me. Yes, I do. I would rather there be a case so I would have something to defend against than having absolutely nothing. I take it you read my post, since you're quoting it. I believe the argument to be quite clear.

d) Explain better how I am wasting town time. less than 8 hours on the clock and still no consensus to lynch. If you were serious about accusing Superkeener, you would've put in more effort, and more words. Instead you wait for a few people to join your cause, and then take your own vote off your own case and place it on yourself. Please explain how that is not wasting town time.

Answers in the quote. Concerning day 1, you may have noticed I followed your case on Neb that day. Similarly, I have actually aided you in your case against Superkeener for several pages until I realised it had nothing to do with his alignment. How does that constitute to having had a "hard-on" for you since day one?

We're running out of time. Edocsil, I suggest you stop playing the spectator and actually engage in the game.

[rishaed]

Well.....A lynch in general will clear things up. If he is a VT, then so be the case. Like everyone else neither of the two are very compelling to vote atm. If we have a vig and doom flips town I would more than be wanting to vig Keener, if not well then it doesn't really prove that keener is town/scum.
For sake of information. unvote vote Doom

[edocsil]

Someone else will do it, as above. I do not think the lynch is accurate, hence my lack of vote. Care to place odds on it? Personally I blame you Aage for this mislynch. I am fairly certain that I have Doom's number when it comes to his playstyle, and he was playing as town. You have arguments against him that lend credibility to the lynch, but I cannot go against my intuition.

[aage]

Someone else will do it, as above. I do not think the lynch is accurate, hence my lack of vote. Care to place odds on it? Personally I blame you Aage for this mislynch. I am fairly certain that I have Doom's number when it comes to his playstyle, and he was playing as town. You have arguments against him that lend credibility to the lynch, but I cannot go against my intuition.

You can pin the lynch on me, that's fine, but I doubt it's a mislynch. Superkeener might have been, though.

[DoomYoshi]

How is it that I got lynched without even keener having to claim?

I call bs.

Aage, you say it is not based on his alignment. It doesn't matter. Any player not willing to put in one ounce of thought before hammering doesn't deserve to live until LYLO anyways. He has to be lynched or vigged.

[aage]

I agree, vig him. I've said that forever. But in the meantime we lynch scum.

[Iron Butterfly]

I agree, vig him. I've said that forever. But in the meantime we lynch scum.

You have been saying like a broken record bad play does not mean bad intent and that is what you used to defend Superkeener. Now you wish to Vig Superkeener??

[aage]

I agree, vig him. I've said that forever. But in the meantime we lynch scum.

You have been saying like a broken record bad play does not mean bad intent and that is what you used to defend Superkeener. Now you wish to Vig Superkeener??

I get tired of requoting myself.

"If he isn't scum, he isn't going to help town either."

[Iron Butterfly]

So I guess you not only know he is Town but you know his role. Good to know. /sarcasm off

[rishaed]

Someone else will do it, as above. I do not think the lynch is accurate, hence my lack of vote. Care to place odds on it? Personally I blame you Aage for this mislynch. I am fairly certain that I have Doom's number when it comes to his playstyle, and he was playing as town. You have arguments against him that lend credibility to the lynch, but I cannot go against my intuition.

I never completely agreed with it either, however I was more than expecting a scene from Freezie atm. A NL in my opinion today would be more detrimental to town than a mislynch. I will start the next day off by voting Superkeener if he hasn't been NK'd by then. By all means We had him to L-1 by my count before Jonty unvoted him. If that or L-2 isn't claim time then I don't know what is. That he dodged my (and other's) repeated question is scummyer than anything to me. Once I find someone playing scummy, I am not going to let it go until I am satisfied with their answers over a period of time. That being said, mafia has scored a big gain if both of them are town. If that is true then this day has been pretty much wasted, other than a read on aage and more information from Doom's lynch.

[superkeener]

So has there been a lynch, or have I missed something?

[rishaed]

So has there been a lynch, or have I missed something?

If we have a vig, please please vig him

[jonty125]

So has there been a lynch, or have I missed something?

Please lets this be an awful case of sarcasm/irony

[superkeener]

I was wondering if I missed anything from freezie, since the deadline was 2 days ago and I guess Yoshi has been lynched.
The first day also ended strangely...

[thechuck51]

My apologies to all for my inactivity, RL time constraints that I won't bore you with details about.

I was wondering if I missed anything from freezie, since the deadline was 2 days ago and I guess Yoshi has been lynched.
The first day also ended strangely...

As I don't think Doom has reached 7 votes I think we should continue with the day until freezie ends it. So though you were probably hoping to get through this day without claiming there is still time for you to do so.

[rishaed]

If that is the case unvote

[Iron Butterfly]

What reason have I given you for wanting to lynch me besides the fact that I voted for neb, which you and 6 others also did.

So what, if I think he was bluffing, I was not the only one voting for neb.

And yet the votes are on you. I'm afraid Jonty is right.

Sorry, I'm missing the connection. I'm saying that VT claims suck for pretty much everyone. As for the ???, well we'll find out soon enough I suppose. Could have even be his role, rather than an ability. No idea why you are making such assumptions about the odd flip.

You said "yay for usefulness, also, you have to kill them to prove it, the actual claim tells you nothing". I understood Jonty was addressing Doom with "you". If he were a VT, that would tell him it's not a non-VT game, that's all. As for the odd flip, this had been discussed at length before, and I see no reason how things could have changed since the last lynch.

I don't know. Superkeener's attitude is characteristic of bad play, not necessarily bad intent. Why would anyone not bother to defend themselves?

Why is nobody friggin defending themselves in this game?

I find this interesting.

Superkeener is at L2 and has not claimed and Aage asks why no one is defending themselves. Instead of putting pressure on Superkeener because he has the most votes and is at L2 he votes Doom a page later. If he has no problem with Suoerkeener being lynched and advocates a vig shot at Superkeener why not continue the pressure on Superkeener? No he gives lip service about people not defensing themselves as if that settles the matter.

[DoomYoshi]

Because he is hallucinatory and the town jesters fell into his trap.

[jonty125]

I thought Doom had seven votes, but with no sign of freezie, I'm happy with us playing on until then. Superkeener - claim.