Themeless twisted mafia Day 2. No deaths, 13/14 alive.

[aage]

@rishaed
I never said "I was bluffing" I think neb was bluffing on D1. This word switch has two different meanings, and if you are voting me because "I was bluffing" then your vote has not merit. but that may just be semantics.

You're dodging the question and you have for the past week. Why are you stalling?

[Iron Butterfly]

@saf: my flip may tell you something. My claim doesn't.

Then we might as well just lynch you and Keener and everyone else, right?

Doom, you're not making a hell of a lot of sense and you completely ignored my plead for giving actual defenses. Do you want to have a case on you? Because right now you're wasting town time. That justifies a vote DoomYoshi at this point.

You think Doom has given a worse defense then Superkeener?? If that is your criteria for voting then you contradict yourself.

You may not agree with Dooms defense but it is a hell of a lot more then Superkeeners.

I am however not surprised by your vote because I believe you are scum as is Superkeener.

[superkeener]

@rishaed
I never said "I was bluffing" I think neb was bluffing on D1. This word switch has two different meanings, and if you are voting me because "I was bluffing" then your vote has not merit. but that may just be semantics.

You're dodging the question and you have for the past week. Why are you stalling?

What question would that be? Because I have explained why I chose to vote neb. And I see no other questions left to answer.

[aage]

@saf: my flip may tell you something. My claim doesn't.

Then we might as well just lynch you and Keener and everyone else, right?

Doom, you're not making a hell of a lot of sense and you completely ignored my plead for giving actual defenses. Do you want to have a case on you? Because right now you're wasting town time. That justifies a vote DoomYoshi at this point.

You think Doom has given a worse defense then Superkeener?? If that is your criteria for voting then you contradict yourself.

You may not agree with Dooms defense but it is a hell of a lot more then Superkeeners.

I am however not surprised by your vote because I believe you are scum as is Superkeener.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 5#p4148450
Superkeener's attitude is characteristic of bad play, not necessarily bad intent.

Doom isn't a bad player, I know that. I don't see (the reasons for) his actions helping town and I can hold him accountable fully without a doubt. That is why I am voting for Doom, not for Superkeener. If there is a vig, by all means, shoot Superkeener, I don't care. If he isn't scum he isn't going to help town either.

[aage]

@rishaed
I never said "I was bluffing" I think neb was bluffing on D1. This word switch has two different meanings, and if you are voting me because "I was bluffing" then your vote has not merit. but that may just be semantics.

You're dodging the question and you have for the past week. Why are you stalling?

What question would that be? Because I have explained why I chose to vote neb. And I see no other questions left to answer.

"This is why I am voting you. Double FoS Doom for his last post, (it in summary, is why some of us are voting Superkeener). I want a decent Defense coming from you not one liners saying, "of course I was bluffing." The Why is equally if not more important to me than the overall statement. I can analyze the Why statement and make a decision. Just saying that you were bluffing doesn't really convince me that you were."

You have ignored everything except the highlighted part. Stop stalling. You are in the process of being lynched, now is not the time for being a smartass.

[superkeener]

If you show me where I said "of course I was bluffing." Then I will answer your question. But until then, stop changing my words around.

[DoomYoshi]

@saf: my flip may tell you something. My claim doesn't.

Then we might as well just lynch you and Keener and everyone else, right?

Doom, you're not making a hell of a lot of sense and you completely ignored my plead for giving actual defenses. Do you want to have a case on you? Because right now you're wasting town time. That justifies a vote DoomYoshi at this point.

What defense do you want from me? I am unrepentant in starting the case on superkeener. As far as I can tell, the only reason there are votes on me are because I started that case.

What should I be held accountable for? You agree with the case on keener, no?

[aage]

@saf: my flip may tell you something. My claim doesn't.

Then we might as well just lynch you and Keener and everyone else, right?

Doom, you're not making a hell of a lot of sense and you completely ignored my plead for giving actual defenses. Do you want to have a case on you? Because right now you're wasting town time. That justifies a vote DoomYoshi at this point.

What defense do you want from me? I am unrepentant in starting the case on superkeener. As far as I can tell, the only reason there are votes on me are because I started that case.

What should I be held accountable for? You agree with the case on keener, no?

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 5#p4148450
Superkeener's attitude is characteristic of bad play, not necessarily bad intent.

What you're doing is being frustrated and most of all popping one-liners, exactly like Rishaed accused superkeener of doing. I find it curious how he doesn't connect those two obvious dots, but that is a case for tomorrow. Right now, the choice is between lynching you, or lynching Superkeener. I choose you. Not only are you probably more dangerous, but you are also more likely to actually be scum.

Accountability has to do with the dragging out of this day through the aforementioned one-liners. Apparently, nobody wants to hammer either one of you over it. I don't know why, but I do know that it's the two of you who are being discussed so thoroughly, and you two making the small replies that annoy the hell out of everyone. Neither is helping town.

As you may have noticed, as I already said I don't care if superkeener dies, I'm not holding you accountable for the case on Superkeener. That is not relevant to your scumminess in my opinion, and therefore nothing to be held accountable for.

[spiesr]

Screw it, I can't tolerate superkeener's failure to respond in a satisfactory way anymore.
Unvote Vote superkeener
If you have any compelling reasons for us not to lynch you and/or a role-claim please provide them now.

[Iron Butterfly]

Don't think the people laying low are not noticed.

[jonty125]

Don't think the people laying low are not noticed.

You could just name & shame them.

[edocsil]

Chuck/mets maybe me but I'm posting more than they are.

Aage is making a solid argument, which is continuing to get more compelling. Personally, however I would leave Doom till tomorrow and deal with keener today. Need that claim ASAP.

[jonty125]

Need that claim ASAP.

+1

[rishaed]

Chuck/mets maybe me but I'm posting more than they are.

Aage is making a solid argument, which is continuing to get more compelling. Personally, however I would leave Doom till tomorrow and deal with keener today. Need that claim ASAP.

Mets has already been replaced (by me). Chuck however hasn't been on recently b/c he hasn't even updated his mafia either.

[DoomYoshi]

So I am more likely to be scum because I am concise. I would defend against that, but it's such a lame accusation, I don't know what to make of it.

How can you accuse me of dragging the day out? There have been votes on two players today. One was me and one was the case I started. In other words, 100% of everything that has happened today is DIRECTLY because of me.

You were in the drag party with your flavor spec.

[rishaed]

Ok. To comment on my D1 neb vote issue.
When neb said this "Lynch me. I'll take shape's place." That just rubbed me the wrong way. So I was confident in voting for him, and actually I still think it was a good idea. We still don't know for sure his alignment and I am interested to see when or if it will be revealed before the game's end.

So you think he was bluffing?

Lynch me. I'll take shape's place.

you got it,

UNVOTE
VOTE NEB

that was the hammer

You said "you got it". Was that sarcasm?

Ok, here is aage/doom giving Keener an idea for a way out.

I do think he was bluffing.

This is keener taking his get out of jail free card a few posts down with a single one liner. No explanation on why he (Keener) thought he (Neb) was bluffing, nothing other than a simple one liner.... This is mainly why i don't believe him. If you thought he(Neb) was bluffing then at least say why you thought so.

I have been quite clear on why I have been voting you. I want your thought processes behind the decision, not just the decision. But now with your recent responses I want a claim.
A bit more specific though I did think I was being clear on who was who in my sentences as much as possible. You thought Neb was bluffing. Why? I have never said you were bluffing, and never claimed to. Just answer the questions already....

[aage]

So I am more likely to be scum because I am concise. I would defend against that, but it's such a lame accusation, I don't know what to make of it.

How can you accuse me of dragging the day out? There have been votes on two players today. One was me and one was the case I started. In other words, 100% of everything that has happened today is DIRECTLY because of me.

You were in the drag party with your flavor spec.

Flavor spec was all over page 12, yes, and we stopped there because it was going nowhere, you know that. I still have tons of ideas, but posting them would be distracting.

The reason I accuse you of dragging the day out is because your posts have been anything but concise.

con·cise
/kənˈsīs/
Adjective
Giving a lot of information clearly and in a few words; brief but comprehensive.

Let's see that, shall we?

Spoiler

So you're saying you voted him knowing, by your logic, that he was a VT? Doesn't that strike you as a bit absurd?

No. Where the f*ck did I say that?

Lynch me. I'll take shape's place.

you got it,

UNVOTE
VOTE NEB

that was the hammer

You said "you got it". Was that sarcasm?

Ok. To comment on my D1 neb vote issue.
When neb said this "Lynch me. I'll take shape's place." That just rubbed me the wrong way. So I was confident in voting for him, and actually I still think it was a good idea. We still don't know for sure his alignment and I am interested to see when or if it will be revealed before the game's end.

So you think he was bluffing?

My 2 cents - I don't think he was.

So why didn't you Unvote? Why are you going out of your way to cler keener?

I do think he was bluffing.

In that case, I will unvote.

If you think he was bluffing, you should've made it more clear that you were being sarcastic.

vote doom

This game is stupid. Rishaed pointed out that I started a high profile case. It was a minor point that wouldn't have been a major case if a)keener posted once a day or b) the other players did something more than useless flavor spec.

@spiesr: I made my case day 1.

I do think he was bluffing.

In that case, I will unvote.

If you think he was bluffing, you should've made it more clear that you were being sarcastic.

vote doom

This game is stupid. Rishaed pointed out that I started a high profile case. It was a minor point that wouldn't have been a major case if a)keener posted once a day or b) the other players did something more than useless flavor spec.

your vote serves no useful purpose.

This is the second game I have played with you where when the heat is on you fold up and quit.

I don't play defense. This is at let the second game when I have played with a group of players who don't want to make a case, and just want to sit around listing off roles.

"oh look, there was a kill... It could have been a poisoner, or a vig, or an SK, an arsonist, a PGO, an undeclared mod kill, a vig, a suicides, a lightning rod or a typo. It could also be mafia, and discussing serves no useful purpose."

The heat isn't on me. I did nothing wrong. I pointed out somebody saying "vote x because x is town" and I voted for him. If that's not a policy lynch, I don't know what is. I would kill you all if I could.

Damn cool head getting in the way of my martyrdom

unvote

vt. claim gives you no info.

What part of "blatantly softclaim power role" don't you understand. It's in the quot-y bit.

Sure thing. No saving grace from superkeener so far.

vote superkeener

Sure thing. No saving grace from superkeener so far.

vote superkeener

What is this supposed to mean?

It means you have given me no reason to want to save your life.

What reason have I given you for wanting to lynch me besides the fact that I voted for neb, which you and 6 others also did.

So what, if I think he was bluffing, I was not the only one voting for neb.

And yet the votes are on you. I'm afraid Jonty is right.

Sorry, I'm missing the connection. I'm saying that VT claims suck for pretty much everyone. As for the ???, well we'll find out soon enough I suppose. Could have even be his role, rather than an ability. No idea why you are making such assumptions about the odd flip.

You said "yay for usefulness, also, you have to kill them to prove it, the actual claim tells you nothing". I understood Jonty was addressing Doom with "you". If he were a VT, that would tell him it's not a non-VT game, that's all. As for the odd flip, this had been discussed at length before, and I see no reason how things could have changed since the last lynch.

I don't know. Superkeener's attitude is characteristic of bad play, not necessarily bad intent. Why would anyone not bother to defend themselves?

Why is nobody friggin defending themselves in this game?

But my claim tells me nothing. My role PM tells me stuff, but me claiming doesn't benefit town at all. Especially since the case was basically "you voted".

why the fos on me? I don't follow.

@rish: I meant that people were voting me for no reason other than I was the only one voting early on.

@saf: my flip may tell you something. My claim doesn't.

Your posts were short, I'll give you that. But you have been getting us nowhere. I raised the argument of bad play vs. bad intent three times now, and you have never even once mentioned it, let alone respond to it. You reply to people with "yes", "no", and euphemisms of "shut the f*ck up". You're playing a passionate game, try to intimidate people, thwart their arguments with one solid statement that has charisma but lacks reason. The only exceptions are your "frustrated outbursts". Tell me, is that what a VT does?

[Iron Butterfly]

"I don't know. Superkeener's attitude is characteristic of bad play, not necessarily bad intent. Why would anyone not bother to defend themselves?"

You keep saying this as if it means something without considering the psychological aspects of weather he is Town or mafia.

If you are going to keep using this as an argument to defend Superkeener you need to explain what exactly is "characteristic" of bad play and more importantly how can you determine "intent" if you do not know alignment?

I

[safariguy5]

"I don't know. Superkeener's attitude is characteristic of bad play, not necessarily bad intent. Why would anyone not bother to defend themselves?"

You keep saying this as if it means something without considering the psychological aspects of weather he is Town or mafia.

If you are going to keep using this as an argument to defend Superkeener you need to explain what exactly is "characteristic" of bad play and more importantly how can you determine "intent" if you do not know alignment?

I

Perhaps this is more of a meta argument. One of the possible scumtells is departure from normal player playstyle in game. I see many parallels in the case against both players, but I know Doom has played better than this before while keener has not. This tips the scales towards Doom being the more intriguing case to me. However, the longer superkeener does not claim, the more suspicious he becomes.

[pancakemix]

Don't think the people laying low are not noticed.

So there's this thing called finals week coming up...

How can you accuse me of dragging the day out? There have been votes on two players today. One was me and one was the case I started. In other words, 100% of everything that has happened today is DIRECTLY because of me.

That is factual. Whether or not that's a good thing is another thing entirely. Keener's is becoming increasingly dodgy, but I haven't seen reason to move my vote to him. Not for his part, but mostly for yours. aage has a very good point when he says you've been posting a lot and saying little.

"I don't know. Superkeener's attitude is characteristic of bad play, not necessarily bad intent. Why would anyone not bother to defend themselves?"

You keep saying this as if it means something without considering the psychological aspects of weather he is Town or mafia.

If you are going to keep using this as an argument to defend Superkeener you need to explain what exactly is "characteristic" of bad play and more importantly how can you determine "intent" if you do not know alignment?

I can't speak for aage on this, but it seems not so much as he's defending him as he is picking the greater of two evils. If Doom is playing an intimidation game and not saying anything, that's bad, and certainly worse than a quick decision like the one keener made (which I still think is somewhat moot because we can't say for certain who exactly Neb was).

[DoomYoshi]

Aage, I am playing same as I always do. Maybe a bit bitchier than normal.

So my crime switched from only posting one-liners to posting too much?

"getting us nowhere"
-Not true. I got us to a wagon. I am probably going to get us to a lynch. Where else do you want me to get us to? Also, why is the entire weight of where we go on me? Why can't I passively sit back and let the wagon go where others want to steer?

If I was scum, then me directing town would be worse. If you think I am scum, you should be glad I am getting us nowhere because anywhere scum takes us is bad.

[aage]

Aage, I am playing same as I always do. Maybe a bit bitchier than normal.

So my crime switched from only posting one-liners to posting too much?

"getting us nowhere"
-Not true. I got us to a wagon. I am probably going to get us to a lynch. Where else do you want me to get us to? Also, why is the entire weight of where we go on me? Why can't I passively sit back and let the wagon go where others want to steer?

If I was scum, then me directing town would be worse. If you think I am scum, you should be glad I am getting us nowhere because anywhere scum takes us is bad.

Oh, scum rarely directs town. They haven't the guts.

But you have indeed given us two wagons. One is on superkeener, yes you started it, and I already told you why I don't favour it. The other is on you. I doubt you're referring to that one, because getting yourself lynched is never good.

You are right on the latter part of your post though, that's why I don't really think superkeener to be scum. Even for scum, why would anyone deliberately and publicly be such a pain in the ass to town? Cause I don't know, and I have no reason to believe this is a setup.

"I don't know. Superkeener's attitude is characteristic of bad play, not necessarily bad intent. Why would anyone not bother to defend themselves?"

You keep saying this as if it means something without considering the psychological aspects of weather he is Town or mafia.

If you are going to keep using this as an argument to defend Superkeener you need to explain what exactly is "characteristic" of bad play and more importantly how can you determine "intent" if you do not know alignment?

I already told you, I don't care whether superkeener dies. But:
"Not only [is Doom] probably more dangerous, but [he is] also more likely to actually be scum."

Tell me about the psychological aspects. Why would town be a public pain in the ass to town? Why would scum be a public pain in the ass to town? It's probably a load of wifom, but if you ignore that the conclusion seems clear, because neither question has a good answer. Therefore him being a pain in the ass right now doesn't tell us anything about his alignment, only about his level of play. And it's low, I'll grant you, but we don't string up people because we dislike them. We string them up because we think they're scum.

[DoomYoshi]

So no matter what I am scum, eh, aage. This is the most vacuous and vapid case I have been subjected to in a long time.

[aage]

So no matter what I am scum, eh, aage. This is the most vacuous and vapid case I have been subjected to in a long time.

Prove me wrong. Or prove anything at all, for that matter. You say that my accusation is wrong, explain why. The one-liner isn't going to cut it, actually it's typical for your scummy plays in this game.

No, the truth is you won't defend yourself because you can't. I called you on this and there's no excuse. Is there?

[jonty125]

So no matter what I am scum, eh, aage. This is the most vacuous and vapid case I have been subjected to in a long time.

unvote, vote Doom, should of stuck with my guns, Doom has been playing worse than superkeener, and is normally a better player than how he is playing.