Kiron Conqueror - Abuse or Legal play?

[jsnyder748]

Zidane - 21 and I are 43/46 in 8 person baseball doubles freestyle.

Innyafacce and I are 122/125 in 4 person das freestyle doubles.

those are good percentages. If they played doubles It would at least be around these ^^ percentages.

[xiangwang]

Why is this topic still going?

Regarding that one game it's been established by mods, kiron and i that it was a misunderstanding of the rules and a warning has already been issued. Also, it's just 1 game for goodness sakes, it's as though Kiron cheated his entire way EVERY game to conqueror, which everyone knows is wrong.

its just 1 game????
from January 2011 until March 2013 was really just 1 game???
sure

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 0&start=45
read at page 4 what AslantheKing had to say long time ago


Postby AslanTheKing on Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:26 pm
Well, my opinion to this is straight forward,
the rules above seem logical , thats fine, but why dont you mention the real strategy to get to the top quickly?

Every game to play with kiron, him or you win , isnt it possible that you two have a silent deal?
its possible, that way, no matter which strategy u use, you both can manipulate the game accordingly, simple mathematics,
in a game of 8 guys, 6 mind their own business, one of you can always change the game, and interestingly its mostly the other ones turn, as soon one of you has finished.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

guys , its just obvious, it went good long enough
and now the heat is on
file is closed, guilty

but good news is, you guys have practiced long enough, youre talented ?
now play it fair
and try doubles - maybe ure unbeatable then

and by the way start a new account , since kiron and xiangwang will stay in our memorys
kiron can be chop, and xiangwang can be suey
good luck for your future career at CC

Why would I care, Kiron already got conqueror and I am already brigadier (or general by points), I already have 2 articles on strategies, what else do I need for a future career, and people still join my games. I'm quite fine

[Chariot of Fire]

On the subject of how many housemates Kiron has that play CC.....

Going on the current poll I would hazard a guess at 8

[KraphtOne]

My thought exactly

[Seulessliathan]

just wanted to add one or two things to the case....

Kiron has already been blocked from playin in same game with "roommate" once... Kiron/Drakeavril...2 for the price of 1! [blocked]

the player Kiron was blocked from playin...drakeavril

played 14 Standard games together..... Kiron wins 11.... drakeavril wins nothing

during the case Kiron confirms there roommates...
so i can't play games with my housemate anymore?

what is interestin bout this is the day the verdict is handed out...
king achilles on Fri May 29, 2009 7:45 am

and surprise surprise, when did xiangwang join the site?....... Fri May 29, 2009 3:39 pm

only 7 and 1/2 hours after ur blocked from playin ur freestyle special games with one roommate a brand new roommate comes along and its business as usual....nice

this along with the the couple of multis u got busted with recently does not look well....how many roommates u got?

leonard_hall[busted]es
leonard_hall has been busted with Kiron and mcrcweb.

Imagine there would be a poll asking if drakeavril and xiangwang are the same person, what do you think, which percentage of the votes saying "no" would be from one household in Canada?

[Tenebrus]

Yeah, I was kind of on board with just barring them from playing together, but the post from Irish Ace in the C+A thread is kind of damning.

[xiangwang]

On the subject of how many housemates Kiron has that play CC.....

Going on the current poll I would hazard a guess at 8

that's rich coming from the person that got a one month ban for account sitting abuse

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... &start=150

[xiangwang]

Yeah, I was kind of on board with just barring them from playing together, but the post from Irish Ace in the C+A thread is kind of damning.

Not really, drake and I are different players. Drake played most of his game with kiron. My first few games were crap and I didn't play with kiron. I didn't even play with Kiron for most of my first 3000 points. Drakeavril is Kiron's problem, it has nothing to do with me other than we lived in the same house.

[AslanTheKing]

just wanted to add one or two things to the case....

Kiron has already been blocked from playin in same game with "roommate" once... Kiron/Drakeavril...2 for the price of 1! [blocked]

the player Kiron was blocked from playin...drakeavril

played 14 Standard games together..... Kiron wins 11.... drakeavril wins nothing

during the case Kiron confirms there roommates...
so i can't play games with my housemate anymore?

what is interestin bout this is the day the verdict is handed out...
king achilles on Fri May 29, 2009 7:45 am

and surprise surprise, when did xiangwang join the site?....... Fri May 29, 2009 3:39 pm

only 7 and 1/2 hours after ur blocked from playin ur freestyle special games with one roommate a brand new roommate comes along and its business as usual....nice

this along with the the couple of multis u got busted with recently does not look well....how many roommates u got?

leonard_hall[busted]es
leonard_hall has been busted with Kiron and mcrcweb.

Imagine there would be a poll asking if drakeavril and xiangwang are the same person, what do you think, which percentage of the votes saying "no" would be from one household in Canada?

this is a serious problem here, i will save this thread for future comments regarding this gamestyle which has been approved from CC
to be allright to climb to the top

there s even more shit floating up to the surface, unbelievable they managed doing that without more people getting suspicious

[Tenebrus]

Yeah, I was kind of on board with just barring them from playing together, but the post from Irish Ace in the C+A thread is kind of damning.

Not really, drake and I are different players. Drake played most of his game with kiron. My first few games were crap and I didn't play with kiron. I didn't even play with Kiron for most of my first 3000 points. Drakeavril is Kiron's problem, it has nothing to do with me other than we lived in the same house.

And you just happened to join 6 hours after his other housemate was barred from playing with him? And that other housemate never wanted to play again after being barred from playing with Kiron?

That's a hard fact pattern to believe.

[Qwert]

Why would I care, Kiron already got conqueror and I am already brigadier (or general by points), I already have 2 articles on strategies, what else do I need for a future career, and people still join my games. I'm quite fine

well its will great for you to present new article in Strategy Forum

"coordinate turns"

, these its new interesting strategy, and i think that these could help a lot people to understand how to play Third Crusade in proper way.
Personal i must say that im very bad at these map,because i dont know how these map work,, but if you give me few advices i could be very generous , are we understand each other

[xiangwang]

Yeah, I was kind of on board with just barring them from playing together, but the post from Irish Ace in the C+A thread is kind of damning.

Not really, drake and I are different players. Drake played most of his game with kiron. My first few games were crap and I didn't play with kiron. I didn't even play with Kiron for most of my first 3000 points. Drakeavril is Kiron's problem, it has nothing to do with me other than we lived in the same house.

And you just happened to join 6 hours after his other housemate was barred from playing with him? And that other housemate never wanted to play again after being barred from playing with Kiron?

That's a hard fact pattern to believe.

When I joined it was a coincidence, I knew they were playing, but I didnt care then (noticed I barely played with drake and very few with Kiron until I reached 3000sh points?)

[Bones2484]

When I joined it was a coincidence, I knew they were playing, but I didnt care then (noticed I barely played with drake and very few with Kiron until I reached 3000sh points?)

How did you "barely play with drake" when a very simple look at his 29 games shows you aren't in a single one of them? Does drake have a multi that you are referring to or did you have a multi in those 29 games? Are you sure you aren't Kiron "accidentally" posting on the wrong account again? Are you having trouble keeping up with your story now?

[a6mzero]

Touche

[xiangwang]

When I joined it was a coincidence, I knew they were playing, but I didnt care then (noticed I barely played with drake and very few with Kiron until I reached 3000sh points?)

How did you "barely play with drake" when a very simple look at his 29 games shows you aren't in a single one of them? Does drake have a multi that you are referring to or did you have a multi in those 29 games? Are you sure you aren't Kiron "accidentally" posting on the wrong account again? Are you having trouble keeping up with your story now?

I was referring to drake in RL as in risk games in RL my bad, i guess it was the wrong wording (probably should had said never played, jumbled RL and online)

[a6mzero]

" The people of world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in the truth itself "

[xiangwang]

" The people of world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in the truth itself "

sigh...at this rate this thread is sorta pointless, we'll just wait until the mods sort it out. In the meanwhile feel free to join one of my third crusade games.

[kentington]

" The people of world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in the truth itself "

sigh...at this rate this thread is sorta pointless, we'll just wait until the mods sort it out. In the meanwhile feel free to join one of my third crusade games.

I wouldn't say that it is pointless. Every time you post a response we seem to learn more about the situation.

[Seulessliathan]

" The people of world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in the truth itself "

sigh...at this rate this thread is sorta pointless, we'll just wait until the mods sort it out. In the meanwhile feel free to join one of my third crusade games.

I wouldn't say that it is pointless. Every time you post a response we seem to learn more about the situation.

agreed, tell us more about yourself and your housemates, this starts to be really interesting, or are you afraid to tell us things we better don´t know?
And, i believe you don´t have a lot to lose atm, i am a neutral spectator here, i am neither your fan nor a hater, i just observe. And atm i would say this doesn´t look good for you, but if you are an honest player without any shady intentions, you can maybe turn this around and convince us that you are neither the same person as drake, nor throw games for Kiron to benefit and vice versa.

[Qwert]

When I joined it was a coincidence, I knew they were playing, but I didnt care then (noticed I barely played with drake and very few with Kiron until I reached 3000sh points?)

How did you "barely play with drake" when a very simple look at his 29 games shows you aren't in a single one of them? Does drake have a multi that you are referring to or did you have a multi in those 29 games? Are you sure you aren't Kiron "accidentally" posting on the wrong account again? Are you having trouble keeping up with your story now?

ouch, its look that its right moment to repeat mine post

ok, people its time to enter into spiritual world. These seance will lead famous spiritual medium xiangwang . He will try to make contact with Kiron , ghost trap between two worlds. Xiangwang will drop into trances, and then Kiron will take control,and speak through hem. Please take your seats, light a candle, and take in hand. Its time to start......ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[xiangwang]

" The people of world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in the truth itself "

sigh...at this rate this thread is sorta pointless, we'll just wait until the mods sort it out. In the meanwhile feel free to join one of my third crusade games.

I wouldn't say that it is pointless. Every time you post a response we seem to learn more about the situation.

agreed, tell us more about yourself and your housemates, this starts to be really interesting, or are you afraid to tell us things we better don´t know?
And, i believe you don´t have a lot to lose atm, i am a neutral spectator here, i am neither your fan nor a hater, i just observe. And atm i would say this doesn´t look good for you, but if you are an honest player without any shady intentions, you can maybe turn this around and convince us that you are neither the same person as drake, nor throw games for Kiron to benefit and vice versa.

there isnt much. I have 5 housemates (drakeavril, kiron) you know. drake already quit playing other than seldom in RL. 2 other housemates, i'll refer to leonard_hall and mcrcweb for now worked with me prior to screw kiron over awhile ago cause we were bored (we already apologized for that). I already stated that I am not drake, if i was, then i would just play more games with kiron the moment I joined, like drake had a pattern of doing (which they were blocked for).

Throwing games to Kiron for his benefit is just pure unfound speculation (other than 1 game due to misunderstanding of rules regarding making deals), I already has shown through statistics that the % wins playing with or without each other on 8 player freestyle is the same so Chariot's original accusation that playing in same game together helps us is false. Kiron and I get the same win % playing 1 player vs. 7 other random players. We only play with each other because it was more fun playing with a strong player than 7 random players of usually low rankings (since most high ranks don't join freestyle and flatrate).

[josko.ri]

My apologize I started this topic then disappeared, busy those days with something other.

Without reading all discussion but just briefly went through this, I would say my opinion is that they made mistake by taking decider match outside of that game. I think any deciders taken outside some game (like in stalemates) need to include all living players in original game.

However, from my viewpoint, if "decider" was taken in that game, then it would be all legal. Kiron (seeing his bad position) offers to xiangwang "I offer you that you hit granada, if you success then I will help you win objective, if you fail then you will help me win objective". Then xiangwang could see inside the game if his odds by accepting that offer (the shot at Granada) are higher or lower than his own estimating odds of winning the game. If higher, then he accepts. Kiron, with giving that offer, already calculated that his odds if xiangwang accepts are higher than if he do not offer anything.
I was also going through log of 3 single matches, and I think xiangwang put his best to beat Kiron but he was just unlucky. So there is no case that he threw all 3 games plus decider to Kiron just to gift him Conqueror title. Finally, they recently played a singles game where xiangwang won, so if they were working together on Kiron's rank, they would not even play that game, or would give it to Kiron.

That said, any offer which includes moves done inside the game would be ok. Finally, there are in position to make offers like that because others made strategic mistake and ended their turn early. They are guilty to even allow them to come in position for giving this offer. And since pattern of making decider between them in outside game is not present but this is isolated case, and since Kiron had been on the same way outplayed before by mc05025, Gonakruto and Kaskavel, even with chat note that they flipped 3 way coin to decide winner, he obviously thought this was not against the rules and they should not be guilty just because of the isolated 1 case.

About their questioned pattern in doing this, I think % of wins when playing alone, and % of wins when playing together will the best say if they are helping each other. By numbers provided by xiangwang ( if the numbers are true) they even have less winning % when they are together in the same game. I read in other thread mc05025 said they do not make position of each other worse, but I doubt anyone smart will make position of any other player worse in 8 player game. Who smart will go in early stage at someone, risking at first revenge and in second to weaken them both and be easy targets. So it is true they do not go to each other, but in the same manner like they are not going to other players. Being passive to others as much as possible is just smart play in 8 player games.

[MoB Deadly]

<offtopic> there are a few people in this thread that would make fine mafia players.


http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=213 </offtopic>

[eddie2]

My apologize I started this topic then disappeared, busy those days with something other.

Without reading all discussion but just briefly went through this, I would say my opinion is that they made mistake by taking decider match outside of that game. I think any deciders taken outside some game (like in stalemates) need to include all living players in original game.

However, from my viewpoint, if "decider" was taken in that game, then it would be all legal. Kiron (seeing his bad position) offers to xiangwang "I offer you that you hit granada, if you success then I will help you win objective, if you fail then you will help me win objective". Then xiangwang could see inside the game if his odds by accepting that offer (the shot at Granada) are higher or lower than his own estimating odds of winning the game. If higher, then he accepts. Kiron, with giving that offer, already calculated that his odds if xiangwang accepts are higher than if he do not offer anything.
I was also going through log of 3 single matches, and I think xiangwang put his best to beat Kiron but he was just unlucky. So there is no case that he threw all 3 games plus decider to Kiron just to gift him Conqueror title. Finally, they recently played a singles game where xiangwang won, so if they were working together on Kiron's rank, they would not even play that game, or would give it to Kiron.

That said, any offer which includes moves done inside the game would be ok. Finally, there are in position to make offers like that because others made strategic mistake and ended their turn early. They are guilty to even allow them to come in position for giving this offer. And since pattern of making decider between them in outside game is not present but this is isolated case, and since Kiron had been on the same way outplayed before by mc05025, Gonakruto and Kaskavel, even with chat note that they flipped 3 way coin to decide winner, he obviously thought this was not against the rules and they should not be guilty just because of the isolated 1 case.

About their questioned pattern in doing this, I think % of wins when playing alone, and % of wins when playing together will the best say if they are helping each other. By numbers provided by xiangwang ( if the numbers are true) they even have less winning % when they are together in the same game. I read in other thread mc05025 said they do not make position of each other worse, but I doubt anyone smart will make position of any other player worse in 8 player game. Who smart will go in early stage at someone, risking at first revenge and in second to weaken them both and be easy targets. So it is true they do not go to each other, but in the same manner like they are not going to other players. Being passive to others as much as possible is just smart play in 8 player games.

i think you need to read what has been said josko... this could turn out to be the biggest multi scam to date or not.

[SaMejoHn]

My apologize I started this topic then disappeared, busy those days with something other.

Without reading all discussion but just briefly went through this, I would say my opinion is that they made mistake by taking decider match outside of that game. I think any deciders taken outside some game (like in stalemates) need to include all living players in original game.

However, from my viewpoint, if "decider" was taken in that game, then it would be all legal. Kiron (seeing his bad position) offers to xiangwang "I offer you that you hit granada, if you success then I will help you win objective, if you fail then you will help me win objective". Then xiangwang could see inside the game if his odds by accepting that offer (the shot at Granada) are higher or lower than his own estimating odds of winning the game. If higher, then he accepts. Kiron, with giving that offer, already calculated that his odds if xiangwang accepts are higher than if he do not offer anything.
I was also going through log of 3 single matches, and I think xiangwang put his best to beat Kiron but he was just unlucky. So there is no case that he threw all 3 games plus decider to Kiron just to gift him Conqueror title. Finally, they recently played a singles game where xiangwang won, so if they were working together on Kiron's rank, they would not even play that game, or would give it to Kiron.

That said, any offer which includes moves done inside the game would be ok. Finally, there are in position to make offers like that because others made strategic mistake and ended their turn early. They are guilty to even allow them to come in position for giving this offer. And since pattern of making decider between them in outside game is not present but this is isolated case, and since Kiron had been on the same way outplayed before by mc05025, Gonakruto and Kaskavel, even with chat note that they flipped 3 way coin to decide winner, he obviously thought this was not against the rules and they should not be guilty just because of the isolated 1 case.

About their questioned pattern in doing this, I think % of wins when playing alone, and % of wins when playing together will the best say if they are helping each other. By numbers provided by xiangwang ( if the numbers are true) they even have less winning % when they are together in the same game. I read in other thread mc05025 said they do not make position of each other worse, but I doubt anyone smart will make position of any other player worse in 8 player game. Who smart will go in early stage at someone, risking at first revenge and in second to weaken them both and be easy targets. So it is true they do not go to each other, but in the same manner like they are not going to other players. Being passive to others as much as possible is just smart play in 8 player games.

Everything was getting so dark...until i read this. Its clear that in the game in question the decision to play deciding game is bad form. but i dont find it illegal. you gotta be pretty meticulous to play freestyle, especially on objective maps. If the other players held out and didn't play they could have had a much bigger impact on whatever truce was created instead they chose to end prematurely therefore making themselves irrelevant to the "peace" that kiron and xiangwang made. Also it just always comes back to stats..their record without as oppose to with each other is almost the same with no crazy spike for either player. I hate using the term "hater" but so many of you are just hating at the moment.