Rise of Minimum wage?

[CBlake]

What do you guys think? I've heard some talks of minimum wage being raised upwards to $9.80. Personally I think this is a horrible idea as small business will struggle even more than they already are, companies will be forced to cut hours and make less employees do more work meaning less jobs overall. Some people will have more money in their pockets to spend, but prices of goods will rise due to the increase cost of running a business... That's my 2 cents, what do you guys think?

[tzor]

It's called the One Two Knockout Punch.

The left fist is called the provisions of the Affordable Care Act that encourages a cap on part time hours (limiting how long a person is able to work in a given week).

The right fist is the minimum wage, discouraging people from hiring more people or making them insist that the people they do hire have proven skills according to the new wage.

The result is that youth unemployment will skyrocket and even those youth employed will get less because their hours will be drastically reduced.

[krusher]

What do you guys think? I've heard some talks of minimum wage being raised upwards to $9.80. Personally I think this is a horrible idea as small business will struggle even more than they already are, companies will be forced to cut hours and make less employees do more work meaning less jobs overall. Some people will have more money in their pockets to spend, but prices of goods will rise due to the increase cost of running a business... That's my 2 cents, what do you guys think?

You are dead wrong! small bussiness pay close to that or even a little more... its the big business who can afford to pay them more, that are paying people minimum wage... Fast food/Wal mart are big abusers of minimum wage. The working class are the ones who spend money in this economy so giving them a raise will only return the money to other business and give some much needed relieve for people struggling. The cost of living in this country is absurd, to the point that if you can't work for 1-2 months you are already in poverty. Even at 9.80 or 10. That is really hard to make by in most cities. The cost of living in Florida is pretty high compared to some states I'vee been on. I am always astonished how working people somehow and for some reason defend these money hungry corrupt corporations that use their workers for cheap labor instead of honoring their employee/employeer relationship and giving their employees a fair waige to keep up with the cost of living. Its bad enough that they don't pay for sick days, offer no over time or provide no resonable or legitimate retirement/health plan.

WAKE the f*ck up America we are being controlled by the 1% and their interests!! FDR and the like minded progressive presidents that fought so hard for the People would be ashaimed to see what we've done to their legacy. We are miles behind the Developed nations in terms of work laws and fair wages, even some developing nations have a far better system and represensation for the working class than we do... Union membership has dropped to insignificant levels and any progressive legislation that gets to Congress is quickly labeled as Socialist or Communist plot by the Right. I am sick and tired of Democrats no longer representing the Left, there is no represensation for Liberal/Progressives and the Democratic party has become a Centrist pussy footing around, right appeaser. The Right on the other hand has become more fascist, radical, ignorant, racist, and demanding. I never seen a minority to have so much power as the Right and that is only because they are backed by the rich and because of the lack of voice and leadership in the Progressive/Liberal camp.

Obama last night said we didn't need bigger government, we needed smarter government... This is absurd, the population, the infrustracture, and our technology is growing at a incredible rate, it is obvious that Government needs to keep up/expand in all fields to regulate and provide the service that they are requied to. How the f*ck does Obama have the balls to call himself a Democrat and bend backwards to a Republican platform of smaller Government. Smarter government goes without saying but alas, that will only be true when all the Right is kicked out.

[BigBallinStalin]

What do you guys think? I've heard some talks of minimum wage being raised upwards to $9.80. Personally I think this is a horrible idea as small business will struggle even more than they already are, companies will be forced to cut hours and make less employees do more work meaning less jobs overall. Some people will have more money in their pockets to spend, but prices of goods will rise due to the increase cost of running a business... That's my 2 cents, what do you guys think?

You are dead wrong!

[CBlake]

What do you guys think? I've heard some talks of minimum wage being raised upwards to $9.80. Personally I think this is a horrible idea as small business will struggle even more than they already are, companies will be forced to cut hours and make less employees do more work meaning less jobs overall. Some people will have more money in their pockets to spend, but prices of goods will rise due to the increase cost of running a business... That's my 2 cents, what do you guys think?

You are dead wrong! small bussiness pay close to that or even a little more... its the big business who can afford to pay them more, that are paying people minimum wage... Fast food/Wal mart are big abusers of minimum wage. The working class are the ones who spend money in this economy so giving them a raise will only return the money to other business and give some much needed relieve for people struggling. The cost of living in this country is absurd, to the point that if you can't work for 1-2 months you are already in poverty. Even at 9.80 or 10. That is really hard to make by in most cities. The cost of living in Florida is pretty high compared to some states I'vee been on. I am always astonished how working people somehow and for some reason defend these money hungry corrupt corporations that use their workers for cheap labor instead of honoring their employee/employeer relationship and giving their employees a fair waige to keep up with the cost of living. Its bad enough that they don't pay for sick days, offer no over time or provide no resonable or legitimate retirement/health plan.

WAKE the f*ck up America we are being controlled by the 1% and their interests!! FDR and the like minded progressive presidents that fought so hard for the People would be ashaimed to see what we've done to their legacy. We are miles behind the Developed nations in terms of work laws and fair wages, even some developing nations have a far better system and represensation for the working class than we do... Union membership has dropped to insignificant levels and any progressive legislation that gets to Congress is quickly labeled as Socialist or Communist plot by the Right. I am sick and tired of Democrats no longer representing the Left, there is no represensation for Liberal/Progressives and the Democratic party has become a Centrist pussy footing around, right appeaser. The Right on the other hand has become more fascist, radical, ignorant, racist, and demanding. I never seen a minority to have so much power as the Right and that is only because they are backed by the rich and because of the lack of voice and leadership in the Progressive/Liberal camp.

Obama last night said we didn't need bigger government, we needed smarter government... This is absurd, the population, the infrustracture, and our technology is growing at a incredible rate, it is obvious that Government needs to keep up/expand in all fields to regulate and provide the service that they are requied to. How the f*ck does Obama have the balls to call himself a Democrat and bend backwards to a Republican platform of smaller Government. Smarter government goes without saying but alas, that will only be true when all the Right is kicked out.

I don't know which small businesses you are talking about, but the ones I know around here can't afford to keep the same amount of employees on staff for a higher wage rate per hour.

[b.k. barunt]

"Small businesses can't afford to pay another 2 or 3 dollars an hour without folding"? Niggapleeze! That's the standard feedline administered by the big corporations to the (usually right wing) lackeys who suck it up and parrot it back out with a naivete that would delight Glenn Beck. You couldn't possibly come up with a less original, less insightful, and downright stoopit argument.

Here, let me give you an example: In 1999, while working my way through college (yeah i'm a late bloomer) i worked for a friend who did landscaping. He paid me 8.00 an hour, which in Louisiana was a dollar and a half over the minimum wage of Louisiana at the time. I have a crippled foot and a broken back from an old bike wreck, so i wasn't able to work as fast as the other two young guys who worked for him - he gave them 10 dollars an hour. Nevertheless, on one day when it was just the two of us working together he said we had a good day. I asked him how much he pulled in that day and being a friend of mine he told me. He made over 500 dollars and i made 64. If i would've been paid 10 dollars an hour instead of 8 (a fair wage) i would've made 80 dollars instead of 64. I think anyone with half a brain can see that wouldn't exactly break him.

[krusher]

I don't know which small businesses you are talking about, but the ones I know around here can't afford to keep the same amount of employees on staff for a higher wage rate per hour.

A small businesses who can't afford to pay their employees minimum wage shouldn't be considered a business. If they are struggling its really something lacking in the business concept/management just because your businesses is not doing well doesn't mean you get to compensate the employee's with a inetequate wage. A Business should never make a profit on their employees (Slavery comes to mind) they should stand on their own merits and services based on market forces. If a business is not doing well and is only getting by because they pay their employees shit than it should file for bankruptcy and close down. I guarantee the vacuum created will give opportunity to legitimate businesses to expand and put those people back in the work force. Those small businesses who parasite on the backs of their employees for profit are both unethical and detrimental to the market and the work force.

[krusher]

"Small businesses can't afford to pay another 2 or 3 dollars an hour without folding"? Niggapleeze! That's the standard feedline administered by the big corporations to the (usually right wing) lackeys who suck it up and parrot it back out with a naivete that would delight Glenn Beck. You couldn't possibly come up with a less original, less insightful, and downright stoopit argument.

Here, let me give you an example: In 1999, while working my way through college (yeah i'm a late bloomer) i worked for a friend who did landscaping. He paid me 8.00 an hour, which in Louisiana was a dollar and a half over the minimum wage of Louisiana at the time. I have a crippled foot and a broken back from an old bike wreck, so i wasn't able to work as fast as the other two young guys who worked for him - he gave them 10 dollars an hour. Nevertheless, on one day when it was just the two of us working together he said we had a good day. I asked him how much he pulled in that day and being a friend of mine he told me. He made over 500 dollars and i made 64. If i would've been paid 10 dollars an hour instead of 8 (a fair wage) i would've made 80 dollars instead of 64. I think anyone with half a brain can see that wouldn't exactly break him.

Very good point! I totally agree with you, I worked for a lawyer and he was paying me $14 an hour which seems extremely good until you find out how much he was making himself (250 an hour)... We worked from his house so it wasn't anything fancy but it shows that people do make money and how they exploit others there is no way he could do 20x the work that i could to compensate him getting that much and yet he was always complaining about money... its the typical horse cry of the rich, always saying they are broke or can't afford it. Wake up America unless you are one of these business owners who take advantage of your workers and making a profit I don't see why anyone would try to defend them. They are exploiting ignorant people everywhere and not only are they workforce taking it backwards but they are thanking them for it by defending them. Unionizing for collective bargaining is the only way the workers can gain some leverage and demand legitimate wages and benefits for their work.

[warmonger1981]

Suppose that lawyer had to go to law school and pull thousands in in credit to go there. He has to pay that back not you. There is a cost to run a business. I know I own my own company and if I paid my employees the same wage as me I would ne broke. But there has to be a fair wage paid no doubt . I also do 10 times the work be it paying for insurance,fuel,material,marketing and so on. Not everyone can make the same if there are hidden costs or if the work load is not the same. Should a burger flipper get the same wage as a manager who went to collage?

[BigBallinStalin]

"Small businesses can't afford to pay another 2 or 3 dollars an hour without folding"? Niggapleeze! That's the standard feedline administered by the big corporations to the (usually right wing) lackeys who suck it up and parrot it back out with a naivete that would delight Glenn Beck. You couldn't possibly come up with a less original, less insightful, and downright stoopit argument.

Here, let me give you an example: In 1999, while working my way through college (yeah i'm a late bloomer) i worked for a friend who did landscaping. He paid me 8.00 an hour, which in Louisiana was a dollar and a half over the minimum wage of Louisiana at the time. I have a crippled foot and a broken back from an old bike wreck, so i wasn't able to work as fast as the other two young guys who worked for him - he gave them 10 dollars an hour. Nevertheless, on one day when it was just the two of us working together he said we had a good day. I asked him how much he pulled in that day and being a friend of mine he told me. He made over 500 dollars and i made 64. If i would've been paid 10 dollars an hour instead of 8 (a fair wage) i would've made 80 dollars instead of 64. I think anyone with half a brain can see that wouldn't exactly break him.

He does more than shovel dirt, just sayin'.

[Night Strike]

It's not only minimum wage earners who have their incomes increased. If we bumped it to $9.00, EVERYONE making under that amount would get bumped up, not just those currently at minimum wage. Furthermore, all those who are in that gap will probably be punished by the increase because even though they worked and earned their raises, it's doubtful they'll stay the same amount above the new minimum wage, if at all. And don't forget about punishing all the young people who are trying to get part time entry level jobs: there will be fewer of those around since employers won't want to pay the higher wages if they can't afford it. Businesses aren't charities.

Furthermore, it's not just the employee that gets paid the higher amount. The employer must pay even more FICA and unemployment taxes to the government as well as put in more in company-provided benefits such as 401k and life insurance (assuming someone at that low of the wage qualifies for those things).


By the way, how about instead of raising the minimum wage to answer inflation, we just stop living in a state of perpetual inflation and devaluation of currency? Let's start addressing the CAUSE of our problems, not the symptoms.

[tzor]

You are dead wrong! small business pay close to that or even a little more...

I hate to break it to you, but you are the one who is wrong. Small businesses generally work at very close profit margins. Let's ignore for a moment the question of whether they can pay more and assume they can. Who do you think they are going to hire? You can damn well place a certain bet that it's not going to be that 18 year old without any solid work record on them. They will hire someone older. Youth unemployment will increase. The whole purpose of a minimum wage job is not a "for life" job but a starter job; if you raise it so high that no one wants a starter employee in that job you suddenly kill the goose that lays the experienced worker eggs. Nobody gets a job because nobody has the minimum work history and thus everyone goes on welfare paid for by nobody.

But that won't happen either. Your local diner can't afford to throw money they don't have towards bus persons and junior crews they can't afford. Those that remain will be asked to even more work for their pay (when you once had one person to flip burgers and another to swab the floors you might have the burger flipper also swab the floors - although obviously not at the same time).

Do you even know why they Minimum wage was invented? Well I'll tell you. It was invented to keep African Americans down; that's why!! You see, African Americans from the south were moving to the North for various construction projects. The unions (consisting of blue collar white males, you know, the traditional group that still is OK to make racist comments on) were tired of these people coming in and undercutting the wages for their white male members so they passed a law that basically said you can't work for less than what the Union was paying at the time. And this crap continues to this day. Minorities and especially minority youth are screwed by the minimum wage.

The fact that a half African American (in the truest sense of the word; his father did come from Africa) through this policy (and many other policies inducing gun control which leaves many minorities living in fear to gang violence) has done the most to harm young African Americans is a true sign of irony if ever there was one.

[kentington]

The government is not altruistic. What are the benefits, for the government, of raising minimum wages?

Ah, higher income rate meanes more taxes.
Are there a larger percentage of voters who work minimum wage jobs? They just got more voters.

[tzor]

The government is not altruistic. What are the benefits, for the government, of raising minimum wages?

The government is not intelligent either. Intelligence is considered a cardinal sin among the elite of the government. From a macro economic viewpoint the average wages of any person doesn't give a hill of beans to the general gross amount of revenue that is brought in. That number is more of a general factor of Gross Domestic Product than anything else. In fact the people at the minimum wage are a revenue drain on the system, consuming far more money from the government and virtually no money in the form of taxes (baring minor taxes like Social Security).

Logic would demand that the government lower taxes to raise the GDP so as to increase revenue. The elite would counter with "what moron would suggest that?" (The really snotty conservative like myself would retort, "John F. Kennedy?") Let's face it, the minimum wage is a real non issue for the Federal Government (other than it being a "feel good" issue that gets incumbents votes). the minimum wage needs to be a real stepping stone to enable workers to get MORE THAN THE MINIMUM WAGE. Increases in wages over time, due to improvement of employment condition both lowers the cost to government from the current welfare state and eventually starts to flow in real revenue.

Logic would demand that it is a high priority to get kids interested in the worth ethic as much as it is to have them well educated. The same logic would also demand that the Minimum Wage be abolished or significantly reduced for late teenagers and perhaps even as high as 21. This would give great incentive for companies to hire untested young Americans in great numbers, giving them much needed skills in the labor force that would allow them to compete easily once they have to compete with people of higher skills. If an age exception was placed in the Minimum wage law, I might find it barely acceptable.

[tzor]

The Minimum Wage is Bad for Employers, Workers, and the Economy

When the minimum wage goes up, union wages and benefits also go up. That’s why unions are always behind an increase in the minimum wage. Union workers do not make minimum wage. Unions can hold companies hostage to force up wages. They’re the fourth branch of government. When the minimum wage goes up, the wages of union employees have to go up as well, so they want new contracts to reflect a “proper” wage distance from the meager minimum wage earner.

[chang50]

Personally I think the rise to 300 baht per day was a good step..

[Funkyterrance]

He does more than shovel dirt, just sayin'.

More what exactly? Not more work, most likely. More responsibilities, more headaches perhaps but it makes one wonder how big that bridge between the owner and the lowly worker ought to be. I think that's a pretty big problem with the U.S. tbh, everybody wants to run shit but nobody wants to do shit. Make the doing worth more and a lot more will get "done".
I'd just like to make a preemptive suggestion that we not enter free markets into this one because it not about that imho, it's about greed and preying on the ignorance of your workers, AKA dishonesty. Why pay people more than they are willing to work for you ask? Because they deserve to make more.

[PLAYER57832]

Suppose that lawyer had to go to law school and pull thousands in in credit to go there. He has to pay that back not you. There is a cost to run a business. I know I own my own company and if I paid my employees the same wage as me I would ne broke. But there has to be a fair wage paid no doubt . I also do 10 times the work be it paying for insurance,fuel,material,marketing and so on. Not everyone can make the same if there are hidden costs or if the work load is not the same. Should a burger flipper get the same wage as a manager who went to collage?

Lawyers are not exactly in danger of losing their high incomes. Law students ARE sometimes in a trap of thinking they could spend whatever they wished for college becuase they would just naturally make it later... even though there are far more people trying for the bar in many states than there are open positions for attorneys.

But, look at BK's example. Or, I can point to an interview with a New Yord provider of in home care services -- the people who take care of elderly and disabled individuals. They actually don't even have to be paid the minimum wage because they are classed, legally, the same as your teenage babysitters. But... go ask any agency to have someone come in and you will be hard pressed to find someone in a city for less than $20 an hour.. sometimes more. The company owner, though was claiming he could not possibly afford to pay more than $9.00 an hour (actually a very good wage for home service providers!). If the company really needs $11.00 for overhead, then there is something wrong with how they are running their company!
Even around here, agencies get that much or more -- but pay $7.50 an hour. (minimum is $7.35)

OR, look at any temp agency. I worked for Kelly temps for a few months when between biology jobs, first doing inventory work for $7.50 in Buffalo NY. That was OK, enough to get me rent, etc. The company paid just over $10 for me., not an unreasonable profit. I, of course got no real benefits, not even sick time, but they did cover workman's comp and such. Then I wound up doing some computer work. The temp agency then charged the company over $30 an hour.. but I did not get a dime more, even though the company literature (not contract, just their advertisements and such) claimed I would.

Teh fact is that minimum wage is $9.00 and more in some places. Businesses seem to do just fine. The truth is that when minimum wage is raised, there is a short term layoff impact. A few companies that were close to folding will close a tad earlier, but the majority keep on. Within 2 years everything is back as it was before, except with more money flowing from the bottom.

[warmonger1981]

Never paid minimum wage nor will I. My job is too tough on the body. My guys start at 15 for not knowing shit. Temp agency in my opinion are crap and a scam. By the way I pay workmans comp and unemployment insurance but I cant collect it myself.

[AAFitz]

I dont know. The least amount Ive worked for since I was 19 was $10 an hour, and that was almost 25 years ago. I cant fathom living off of less.

The take-home on that is what $80....eat lunch $5, pay for gas $10...youre at $65 day. Those who argue against this are typically those who benefited most when their grandfathers benefited from such deals, and no doubt they are sickened by the fact that those that benefited so greatly, spit on what they used to not need it anymore.

Further, by not boosting the lowest of the lower class, they drag them and everyone around them down, and only those at the very top, could ever benefit.

The main problem of course, besides ignorance, is that we are directly competing with China, who has no problem exploiting their children, and essentially creating a slave society and labeling it capitalism. We all empower it to some degree, but posters like NS, albeit unwittingly, condones this with every post he ever makes, mostly, because he is too young, and has been coddled by a system he has come to forsake.

Its disgusting.

I hate agreeing with BK.

[BigBallinStalin]

He does more than shovel dirt, just sayin'.

More what exactly? Not more work, most likely. More responsibilities, more headaches perhaps but it makes one wonder how big that bridge between the owner and the lowly worker ought to be. I think that's a pretty big problem with the U.S. tbh, everybody wants to run shit but nobody wants to do shit. Make the doing worth more and a lot more will get "done".
I'd just like to make a preemptive suggestion that we not enter free markets into this one because it not about that imho, it's about greed and preying on the ignorance of your workers, AKA dishonesty. Why pay people more than they are willing to work for you ask? Because they deserve to make more.

You're talking outta your ass.

[BigBallinStalin]

I dont know. The least amount Ive worked for since I was 19 was $10 an hour, and that was almost 25 years ago. I cant fathom living off of less.

The take-home on that is what $80....eat lunch $5, pay for gas $10...youre at $65 day. Those who argue against this are typically those who benefited most when their grandfathers benefited from such deals, and no doubt they are sickened by the fact that those that benefited so greatly, spit on what they used to not need it anymore.

Further, by not boosting the lowest of the lower class, they drag them and everyone around them down, and only those at the very top, could ever benefit.

The main problem of course, besides ignorance, is that we are directly competing with China, who has no problem exploiting their children, and essentially creating a slave society and labeling it capitalism. We all empower it to some degree, but posters like NS, albeit unwittingly, condones this with every post he ever makes, mostly, because he is too young, and has been coddled by a system he has come to forsake.

Its disgusting.

I hate agreeing with BK.

Don't you have a business? You should quadruple the pay of all your workers and see what happens. Why not give them all $100 per hour? See how that works out!

[AAFitz]

I dont know. The least amount Ive worked for since I was 19 was $10 an hour, and that was almost 25 years ago. I cant fathom living off of less.

The take-home on that is what $80....eat lunch $5, pay for gas $10...youre at $65 day. Those who argue against this are typically those who benefited most when their grandfathers benefited from such deals, and no doubt they are sickened by the fact that those that benefited so greatly, spit on what they used to not need it anymore.

Further, by not boosting the lowest of the lower class, they drag them and everyone around them down, and only those at the very top, could ever benefit.

The main problem of course, besides ignorance, is that we are directly competing with China, who has no problem exploiting their children, and essentially creating a slave society and labeling it capitalism. We all empower it to some degree, but posters like NS, albeit unwittingly, condones this with every post he ever makes, mostly, because he is too young, and has been coddled by a system he has come to forsake.

Its disgusting.

I hate agreeing with BK.

Don't you have a business? You should quadruple the pay of all your workers and see what happens. Why not give them all $100 per hour? See how that works out!

Actually, if I hire them to do some jobs for the state, $100 is the required amount. I know quite a few multi-millionaires that do this all the time. I wish I had the means to do just that, because they make a fortune doing it.

And I believe your information is bad once again. They are raising it to $10, not $100. You are off by a factor of ten. An improvement.

[BigBallinStalin]

Wait, why not pay them all $100 per hour? What price makes sense? Should marginal costs exceed marginal benefit?

[AAFitz]

Wait, why not pay them all $100 per hour? What price makes sense? Should marginal costs exceed marginal benefit?

Well, again, exxagerating to the factor of ten, may be fun, and all you are capable on the subject, as it seems, but its equally pointless and childish.

In any case, I would never stoop to paying them less than $10 an hour, and have never paid less than that.