The Fish Club - Christians come and discuss our faith.

[Jenos Ridan]

I did not know the X rating was also for violence . I learn something new everyday !

I heard that SCARFACE had to be edited in order to avoid its' original X-rating as well. Although the PASSION OF THE CHRIST made me squirm a little bit, I don't think that any film would be able to accurately depict the intensity of the moment.

But you still squirmed. That is because no matter how bad it is on screen, the truth is always going to be more intence and you know it.

[Jenos Ridan]

I've noticed something, those who are athiest tend to attack the thiests with an almost RELIGIOUS fervor .

Well, I've tried to make the point that atheism is just a different faith. It's been argued against that it is not a relgion, but rather the absence of religion.

On a side note, almost everyone here knows my switch from atheism/skepticism to Christianity. But for every story like mine, it seems like there are about 10 that went in the opposite direction. So for those who made the transition to atheism (some people here are also calling it rationalism), I'm guessing that your former background was either Catholicism or a variant of Catholicism?

If this is true, then what is going on at the Catholic Church? It seems that they are producing more atheists than Bertrand Russell.

My friend Aaron was raised catholic, lived as an athiest untill about a year ago like me when we both fully came to grips with God. So, yes, it depends on your upbring.

[luns101]

you don't need religion to get this new lease on life, i'm glad that you have changed your life, but it's sad that people don't see that any religion, or in fact no religion at all, could have done this.

You're right, I didn't need religion. Instead, I chose Jesus Christ. I put my faith in His claims that He could change my life and He did.

[Jenos Ridan]

you don't need religion to get this new lease on life, i'm glad that you have changed your life, but it's sad that people don't see that any religion, or in fact no religion at all, could have done this.

You're right, I didn't need religion. Instead, I chose Jesus Christ. I put my faith in His claims that He could change my life and He did.

[CrazyAnglican]

Big day,

My son was baptized today

I have noticed along with you that lots of people equate the Church(es), with the religion, and both of them with God. I tend to see these as entirely separate. So a lot of the human failings that we see in churches and ministry don't really upset me. I expect humans to mess up on their end of things.

It may make an interesting discussion for this thread, just a thought.

[Jenos Ridan]

Big day,

My son was baptized today

I have noticed along with you that lots of people equate the Church(es), with the religion, and both of them with God. I tend to see these as entirely separate. So a lot of the human failings that we see in churches and ministry don't really upset me. I expect humans to mess up on their end of things.

It may make an interesting discussion for this thread, just a thought.

Ever wonder why there are so blasted denomiations? The falling of man you speak of.

[CrazyAnglican]

Ever wonder why there are so blasted denomiations? The falling of man you speak of.

That's a good point I hadn't really thought of it as an inevitable consequence of the fall. I've always thought of denominations as a good thing. It allows for a wide diversity of believers. People can choose, from among the denominations, a church that best suits them. Not like shopping for the truth, but more like finding a place that feels like home.

[Jehan]

i cant believe i didn't notice this thread till today, very cool.
Hey, I became a Christian when i was very young, i never really stopped believing in God ever, thanks to the family, other Christians are awesome when you go through hard times, sometimes you need a brother's faith when your own is weak, this is what church is about, it was never about religion or using guidelines to attain some sort of higher existence. we are all people, church is about how we help each other in the faith, so on denominations, though i do not agree with other denominations on some points, i generally find these points too trivial to be worth causing a rift with my brother in the faith, when compared to Christ's Love, our disagreements always seem trivial.

[Jenos Ridan]

Ever wonder why there are so blasted denomiations? The falling of man you speak of.

That's a good point I hadn't really thought of it as an inevitable consequence of the fall. I've always thought of denominations as a good thing. It allows for a wide diversity of believers. People can choose, from among the denominations, a church that best suits them. Not like shopping for the truth, but more like finding a place that feels like home.

My belief, and that of my church, is that 'comfort zones' are not good for pursuing God's Kingdom-here-on-earth. True, ridgid conformity to one universal doctrine is propably not a good thing, but if all the churches could just agree to, well, disagree, then maybe having some blasted many churches wouldn't be so bad.

[Jenos Ridan]

Wow, did this thread die or did I murder it?

[mr. incrediball]

i like beans

[Jenos Ridan]

NO SPAM! Away with ye!

[Abishai]

I think a lot of the differences in denominations is because we tend to focus on ourselves and our individual beliefs instead of Christ and what He did for us. I am not trying to bash Doctrine, because it is of great importance, but there are issues of fundamental importance and then there are secondary issues. So if someone denies Jesus is God, that is a doctrine of essential importance. That changes Who Jesus is from the perspective of those gathering to worship Him, but if someone thinks it is a sin to drink, then that falls in to the category of a secondary issue. It has no bearing on who Christ is and what God has done for His creation through the redemptive actions of His son. It is all to easy for us to discontinue fellowship with those who have a different take on the secondary issues because we make them into essential issues. Then we tend to flock to those who have similar beliefs as us. I think it is fine to divide on the essentials, but not the secondaries.

[Jenos Ridan]

I think a lot of the differences in denominations is because we tend to focus on ourselves and our individual beliefs instead of Christ and what He did for us. I am not trying to bash Doctrine, because it is of great importance, but there are issues of fundamental importance and then there are secondary issues. So if someone denies Jesus is God, that is a doctrine of essential importance. That changes Who Jesus is from the perspective of those gathering to worship Him, but if someone thinks it is a sin to drink, then that falls in to the category of a secondary issue. It has no bearing on who Christ is and what God has done for His creation through the redemptive actions of His son. It is all to easy for us to discontinue fellowship with those who have a different take on the secondary issues because we make them into essential issues. Then we tend to flock to those who have similar beliefs as us. I think it is fine to divide on the essentials, but not the secondaries.

Now, let us discuss the primaries and secondaries. I'd like to know what is what.

[CrazyAnglican]

Hi Abishai,

Glad to see you back on the thread. Jenos, it's a good question, what are the things that we essentially agree on. Of course none of us can answer it from our own perspective.

Some things of primary importance to me:

1) There is one God.

2) Christ is the son of God & he came down from heaven to die for
our sins.

3) Christians should love others with the same fervor that Christ did
(a really hard one for me. I don't want to die right now, and the
thought of sacrificing myself for another person [other than a
family member] scares the heck out of me. THere have been lots
of martyrs over the centuries to provide the example that people
have reached this point.) There's probably more to this though.

4) Christians should love others as ourselves.
(Easier, in the since that in my clearer moments I know what a jerk
I can be, but in spite of that I don't want anything bad to happen to
me. So I can realize that Joe might be a jerk, but still work to
avoid anything bad happening to him.)

[jnd94]

Hey crazyAnglican! Your back! 3 cheers for one of my favorite devote online christians!

[CrazyAnglican]

Thanks,

Nice to be here.

[lduke1990]

I'm agnostic.

[CrazyAnglican]

I'm agnostic.

Not convinced that there isn't a God, just think his existence is unlikely, huh?

Is there any common ground you share with us? Loving others as ourselves or things like that?

[lduke1990]

no see agnostism is the unwillingness to accept god, but belief in some sort of high power, just not god.

[Jenos Ridan]

Some things of primary importance to me:

1) There is one God.

2) Christ is the son of God & he came down from heaven to die for
our sins.

3) Christians should love others with the same fervor that Christ did
(a really hard one for me. I don't want to die right now, and the
thought of sacrificing myself for another person [other than a
family member] scares the heck out of me. THere have been lots
of martyrs over the centuries to provide the example that people
have reached this point.) There's probably more to this though.

4) Christians should love others as ourselves.
(Easier, in the since that in my clearer moments I know what a jerk
I can be, but in spite of that I don't want anything bad to happen to
me. So I can realize that Joe might be a jerk, but still work to
avoid anything bad happening to him.)

Sounds like the basics any christain could agree on. How bout the oddball stuff, like in my church's case, speaking in tougues?

[Jenos Ridan]

no see agnostism is the unwillingness to accept god, but belief in some sort of high power, just not god.

I once felt that way, when I wasn't being a full-blown atheist.

[CrazyAnglican]

Speaking in tongues, huh?

I have to confess, I don't understand the phenomenon. I've never been in a church that included it. I guess my take on it would be that if you see it as a necessary part of your worship then God bless you. It's a part of the faith that I've never been drawn too.

Is our conversation about what divides us or what we agree on? I might have misunderstood.

[halim7]

I am a straight up Catholic, but I think I am in trouble. I cant seem to stop sinning, no matter how much I try. I really need to kick this one problem, which will be left unnamed , but I cant stop! If anyone has advice, I would be in your debt.

[CrazyAnglican]

no see agnostism is the unwillingness to accept god, but belief in some sort of high power, just not god.

Hi lduke 1990,

If you check my posts you'll see I'm not really into trying to convert anyone (I really don't see how that would be posible given the anonymity of the internet). I do have a few questions for you though, if you are willing to answer them, in the spirit of the discussion as it is.

1) Is this a specific higher power, or the notion that there is a higher
power but it is not the Christian God?