[Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

[superkeener]

I am still going to keep my vote on spiesr, for at least a little longer. I think that Snow Miser and Heat Miser would both be 3rd party, and both are unaffiliated with either town or mafia.
The only problem I am seeing with lynching one of them is that it might somehow upset the balance, and perhaps the remaining miser brother might become OP.

[betiko]

a little reminder of what we have so far:

jonty -> rudolph, town redirector
spiesr -> snow miser, 3rd party heat miser lyncher
soundman -> heat miser, 3rd party survivor
nendreel -> ?, possible town cop

NoSurvivors
rishaed
betiko
edocsil
Little Witt
anamainiacks
Kanin Usagi
Iron Butterfly
MoB Deadly
superkeener
Metsfanmax
thechuck51

out of the other 11 (obviously no one suspects himself), who would you start the scum hunt on?

[MoB Deadly]

I would prefer to go after the quiet people for a bunch of reasons.

1. Inactives don't help hunt scum as accurately
2. Inactives can be easily steered by scum
3. Inactivity can easily be scum submarining.
4. I think it is more beneficial to us to get one of them to claim so we have information to go off of, instead of dealing with it later as we get closer to a possible losing scenario.
5. Inactives have less posts that they are responsible/accountable for. (like less voting and case trends)

This is why I still regret not even forcing claims on Day 1. I admit I got busy in RL though and was unable to push for a claim. We got a no lynch - and now we are back to shooting in the dark just like it was day 1.

[rishaed]

I would prefer to go after the quiet people for a bunch of reasons.

1. Inactives don't help hunt scum as accurately
2. Inactives can be easily steered by scum
3. Inactivity can easily be scum submarining.
4. I think it is more beneficial to us to get one of them to claim so we have information to go off of, instead of dealing with it later as we get closer to a possible losing scenario.
5. Inactives have less posts that they are responsible/accountable for. (like less voting and case trends)

This is why I still regret not even forcing claims on Day 1. I admit I got busy in RL though and was unable to push for a claim. We got a no lynch - and now we are back to shooting in the dark just like it was day 1.

I agree with all of the Above. However I don't have someone sticking out as a person to start pressuring.

[Iron Butterfly]

just reread day 1. there was another post where jonty was pretty clear about gifters being vts and non gifters having abilities, he really put a target on his head there... I wanted to check if someone else had been pretty clear about the same deal to see if someone would need protection, but it was more jonty.

otherwise, still not getting much about day 1.

ok, what do you guys think can there be third party in this game flavourwise? otherwise should we count on 4 mafia 12 townies?

I loved these Christmas shows as a kid. From a mafia standpoint having a third party is really at the discretion of the mod and his imagination. Flavor wise I think there is a strong possibility. Why? The protagonist, lets say Rudolph for an example, would be on an adventure and along the way would meet a variety of allies and villians

You got Heat Miser, Bumbles, the Lion King of Misfit Toys as but small examples Anything is possible.

Well I was right and it makes sense. Keep in mind survivors are not a threat to town. These two just need to fulfill their win condition. That is of course one chooses to believe them. If I had a choice between Spiesr or Soundman I would hands down lynch Soundman. Spiesr has been forthcoming with info in my opinion, Soundman??...not so much.

Edocscil has made a direct indication that one or the other would be night killed. I find it hard to believe he would be so forthcoming with that info if he were indeed a Vig.

[Nendreel]

Edocscil has made a direct indication that one or the other would be night killed. I find it hard to believe he would be so forthcoming with that info if he were indeed a Vig.

He's also guilty of skimming in that post and it has been his only post so far this Day, which makes him pretty minimally active.

[betiko]

just reread day 1. there was another post where jonty was pretty clear about gifters being vts and non gifters having abilities, he really put a target on his head there... I wanted to check if someone else had been pretty clear about the same deal to see if someone would need protection, but it was more jonty.

otherwise, still not getting much about day 1.

ok, what do you guys think can there be third party in this game flavourwise? otherwise should we count on 4 mafia 12 townies?

I loved these Christmas shows as a kid. From a mafia standpoint having a third party is really at the discretion of the mod and his imagination. Flavor wise I think there is a strong possibility. Why? The protagonist, lets say Rudolph for an example, would be on an adventure and along the way would meet a variety of allies and villians

You got Heat Miser, Bumbles, the Lion King of Misfit Toys as but small examples Anything is possible.

Well I was right and it makes sense. Keep in mind survivors are not a threat to town. These two just need to fulfill their win condition. That is of course one chooses to believe them. If I had a choice between Spiesr or Soundman I would hands down lynch Soundman. Spiesr has been forthcoming with info in my opinion, Soundman??...not so much.

Edocscil has made a direct indication that one or the other would be night killed. I find it hard to believe he would be so forthcoming with that info if he were indeed a Vig.

well, I guess he was more threatening of someone viging him, anyone can be a vig with 2 gifts.

otherwise, it's funny to see how people are just theorising here but no one makes a move. I know it's precisely what I'm doing in this post, but I've done a few moves already and I don't want to be the one starting all accusations. take your responsabilities people! You can't expect to start on a big thing. Mob, you're depicturing the type of target you would go for. fair enough, who out of the 11 left on my list are you going to go after? same goes for rishaed.

[Metsfanmax]

Well this is interesting. My role is Heat Miser however I'm not a lyncher, I'm a survivor. I was told that my brother Cold Miser wishes me gone and is trying to lynch me. My goal is to survive till endgame (True survivor role, just with a twist) without him completing his mission (Or everyone loses). I have no special abilities of any kind and I wasn't told who the Cold Miser is. Now that I know I'd rather not give him the chance of killing me and fulfilling his WC. Vote Spiesr.

One says "Cold Miser," the other says "Snow Miser."

I still would like to know whether there was a slip here or not. It was brought up again after I pointed it out, and we did not get a real answer.

[rishaed]

Well this is interesting. My role is Heat Miser however I'm not a lyncher, I'm a survivor. I was told that my brother Cold Miser wishes me gone and is trying to lynch me. My goal is to survive till endgame (True survivor role, just with a twist) without him completing his mission (Or everyone loses). I have no special abilities of any kind and I wasn't told who the Cold Miser is. Now that I know I'd rather not give him the chance of killing me and fulfilling his WC. Vote Spiesr.

One says "Cold Miser," the other says "Snow Miser."

I still would like to know whether there was a slip here or not. It was brought up again after I pointed it out, and we did not get a real answer.

Mine is in red. . . The first part in the statement is True Survivor role which = stay alive in the game. The second part says "Its not truly a true survivor WC." You can't have it both ways. The first thing I would do in that case would be- someone here is trying to lynch me Find them so they don't start confusion during the days trying to lynch me. As such unvote vote soundman

[soundman]

Well this is interesting. My role is Heat Miser however I'm not a lyncher, I'm a survivor. I was told that my brother Cold Miser wishes me gone and is trying to lynch me. My goal is to survive till endgame (True survivor role, just with a twist) without him completing his mission (Or everyone loses). I have no special abilities of any kind and I wasn't told who the Cold Miser is. Now that I know I'd rather not give him the chance of killing me and fulfilling his WC. Vote Spiesr.

One says "Cold Miser," the other says "Snow Miser."

I still would like to know whether there was a slip here or not. It was brought up again after I pointed it out, and we did not get a real answer.

Mine is in red. . . The first part in the statement is True Survivor role which = stay alive in the game. The second part says "Its not truly a true survivor WC." You can't have it both ways. The first thing I would do in that case would be- someone here is trying to lynch me Find them so they don't start confusion during the days trying to lynch me. As such unvote vote soundman

Do you really not understand that? I'm a survivor. I need to survive till endgame. The "twist" is that someone is actively trying to lynch me. Regular survivors do not have another person trying to lynch them to fulfill their win condition.

@Met: "Cold" and "Snow" are interchangeable. I was told that my brother the Snow Miser was after me but used Cold because that was what was on my mind at the time of my post. I'm not sure how you would see that as any sort of slip...

[betiko]

Well this is interesting. My role is Heat Miser however I'm not a lyncher, I'm a survivor. I was told that my brother Cold Miser wishes me gone and is trying to lynch me. My goal is to survive till endgame (True survivor role, just with a twist) without him completing his mission (Or everyone loses). I have no special abilities of any kind and I wasn't told who the Cold Miser is. Now that I know I'd rather not give him the chance of killing me and fulfilling his WC. Vote Spiesr.

One says "Cold Miser," the other says "Snow Miser."

I still would like to know whether there was a slip here or not. It was brought up again after I pointed it out, and we did not get a real answer.

Mine is in red. . . The first part in the statement is True Survivor role which = stay alive in the game. The second part says "Its not truly a true survivor WC." You can't have it both ways. The first thing I would do in that case would be- someone here is trying to lynch me Find them so they don't start confusion during the days trying to lynch me. As such unvote vote soundman

Do you really not understand that? I'm a survivor. I need to survive till endgame. The "twist" is that someone is actively trying to lynch me. Regular survivors do not have another person trying to lynch them to fulfill their win condition.

@Met: "Cold" and "Snow" are interchangeable. I was told that my brother the Snow Miser was after me but used Cold because that was what was on my mind at the time of my post. I'm not sure how you would see that as any sort of slip...

I personally think that even asking+insisting on such futile (cold vs snow) thing is scummy. Soundman's answer was more than obvious, what else was he going to respond.
I don't know, mets trips my scumdar since day 1, there is something not right about all his cases and him trying to make nendreel look scummy.


unvote vote mets

[thechuck51]

Give us Mr. Heats name or you swing. TBH We have no reason to keep you around and at this point I simply assume you are lying about town win compatibility. We hang Heat, and if it sounds like leaving you alive after the scene isn't a dumb idea we wont NK you.

would you care to clarify on who "we" is and your ability to night kill?

unvote (if necessary) vote edoc. I would still like to know who "we" is.

as far has heat/cold miser go, I say we let them be for now. we could always lynch one of them if we get close to deadline.

[anamainiacks]

Do you really not understand that? I'm a survivor. I need to survive till endgame. The "twist" is that someone is actively trying to lynch me. Regular survivors do not have another person trying to lynch them to fulfill their win condition.

@Met: "Cold" and "Snow" are interchangeable. I was told that my brother the Snow Miser was after me but used Cold because that was what was on my mind at the time of my post. I'm not sure how you would see that as any sort of slip...

And so you mean to say that pcm clearly stated/implied in his PM to you that the Snow Miser (soundman) is an exact opposite if your role - nothing more, nothing less?

My pm does not make any direct statements about Soundman's role, apart from his character being the Heat Miser, but it does imply it to an extent.

I think one of the problems is that spiesr seems to believe firmly that your role is a mirror of his, though he may have interpreted his role PM wrongly.

Between the two of them (if we are forced to choose between just them), I'm more inclined to target spiesr, if we take their own accounts for their role to be true. If spiesr does fulfill his win condition, he might be removed from the game as a winner, and that'll lower the townies' vote count further. On the other hand if we take spiesr out first, soundman will still be around to contribute to the townies' vote.

Give us Mr. Heats name or you swing. TBH We have no reason to keep you around and at this point I simply assume you are lying about town win compatibility. We hang Heat, and if it sounds like leaving you alive after the scene isn't a dumb idea we wont NK you.

I'm still suspicious about edoscil. His only post for Day 2 showed he wasn't reading the posts properly, and his mention of the NK set off my alarms. I don't necessarily think scum would make such a terrible slip, but even if he was a Vig / intended to trade gifts for a Vig, NK is not something you'd mention in such a fashion, so I think we should pressure for a claim. Unvote, vote edoscil.

Fastposted by chuck

[rishaed]

Im not convinced on the Edoc case, however soundmans reply satisfies me. so unvote

[superkeener]

This Snow/Heat miser situation has settled down to me, for now so UNVOTE
The edoscil NK comment is interesting, but I am not for sure if it warrants a vote from me just yet. I would like to hear from him first.

I was in favor of a D1 NL, but that can not be the case for D2. We have to send someone to the wolves. Later today, I am going to re-read D2, and hopefully have a more-informed FOS list.

[betiko]

Between the two of them (if we are forced to choose between just them), I'm more inclined to target spiesr, if we take their own accounts for their role to be true. If spiesr does fulfill his win condition, he might be removed from the game as a winner, and that'll lower the townies' vote count further. On the other hand if we take spiesr out first, soundman will still be around to contribute to the townies' vote.

spiesr is not town anyway, so you can't see his vote as a townie vote. Also, if you look a bit the video; christmas is about to get spoiled because it is too hot ad there is no snow. Mrs Claus goes to see both misers and tries for a bargain; heat miser lets just for christmas his brother snow miser make it snow in the south while he is allowed to make heat in the north pole as a compensation.
This whole game is about not ruining christmas and flavourwise, the fact that it was too hot and not snowing was ruining christmas in town. And the bad guys here all about ruining christmas.

[edocsil]

Who the hell do you think we is? Town should kill both misers.

It's the annual Christmas Party Hop at the North Pole. Everyone is having a cup of cheer and getting a sentimental feeling as all sing "Deck the Halls". But out in the cold, some grinches are plotting to ruin Christmas for all the boys and girls in the world. If they have their way, they'll be doing alright, but everyone else will have a blue Christmas. It's up to everyone's favorite heroes to save the holiday for everyone through the joy of Christmas and the power of Animagic.

Voting is open. Day 1 begins.

To me this seems like there are a bunch of threats to the town, rather than unified mafia. I see the Miser's as a threat to the town and I think that we should hang one, and kill the other in the night. I would rather not waste 2 lynches on this but I'm willing to if the vig can't come through/isn't present. META on their characters shows them as fairly antitown.

Also TBH what other cases are there? Inactivity? That's a pretty lame case D2 when you have claims like this.

[betiko]

I don't see how the snow could ruin christmas. other than this, we are not going to waste a vig on the other when the priority is to watch and doc nendreel.

[Kanin Usagi]

I don't see how the snow could ruin christmas. other than this, we are not going to waste a vig on the other when the priority is to watch and doc nendreel.

Too much snow can ruin anything.

That being said, I can't support a lynch of them at this moment. Maybe as we approach deadline though, if we still don't have any major leads.

[spiesr]

I got my answer from pancakemix. Should I fulfill my win condition of getting Soundman lynched I will be removed from the game as a winner. If I am correct about the Heat Miser role then they same would apply to Soundman. So, if you really want us gone you could just lynch Soundman and that would take care of us both...

[betiko]

I got my answer from pancakemix. Should I fulfill my win condition of getting Soundman lynched I will be removed from the game as a winner. If I am correct about the Heat Miser role then they same would apply to Soundman. So, if you really want us gone you could just lynch Soundman and that would take care of us both...

or we lynch either of you forcing you guys to vote before the hammer so you stay in town and help :p

[NoSurvivors]

lmfao so who do we love more..... spies or soundy ;P

[MoB Deadly]

Who the hell do you think we is? Town should kill both misers.

I do not like edocs response at all to the heat on him. But quite honestly, if I know anything about this fora, edoc is a seasoned player and I don't ever see him making such a ridiculous slip as that. He will just get an official FOS from me.

I don't really think we should remove the misers from the game yet. Yes, they are not guaranteed town votes, but they are just as suspect to get nightkilled by mafia as we are, so I think they will be voting with us at least for now. And they are a "safe" person to bus with if we have a bus driver in the game. Instead of bussing with someone scummy, they could bus with a miser for a guaranteed non-town kill.

[soundman]

lmfao so who do we love more..... spies or soundy ;P

ME! Besides, he's trying to kill me and all I'm doing to trying to survive.

[edocsil]

Who the hell do you think we is? Town should kill both misers.

I do not like edocs response at all to the heat on him. But quite honestly, if I know anything about this fora, edoc is a seasoned player and I don't ever see him making such a ridiculous slip as that. He will just get an official FOS from me.

I don't really think we should remove the misers from the game yet. Yes, they are not guaranteed town votes, but they are just as suspect to get nightkilled by mafia as we are, so I think they will be voting with us at least for now. And they are a "safe" person to bus with if we have a bus driver in the game. Instead of bussing with someone scummy, they could bus with a miser for a guaranteed non-town kill.

Upon more reading perhaps annihilating the misers is a bad idea. I still think we should hang the heat miser (he isn't in to win it for Christmas) and see if it endgames cold/snow/whatever. If it does, he was telling the truth and we have 2 less people likely to axe us in the back. If it doesn't then perhaps we can consider LAL. It's not like it will end the game for us, and it could take out a complication we simply don't need.

Also thanks for the respect to assume that "we" wasn't scum. If someone tried to pursue more of a case against me with that, I not quite sure what I would have done ><